So this happened at a pre-release Saturday, and it's really been causing me to be upset, so I wanted to see how many people kind of agree with me, and how many people just have no conscience (sp?) when it comes to pieces of cardboard with pictures on them.
So, there have been a group of new players coming to the store near my house recently (they started two weeks ago, the pre-release was their second event at the store). There was one lady who came with 15$, and didn't realize the event was 30$ to play, so this guy (THIS FRIGGIN GUY!) said he would pay for her because she was new. The lady was really thankful, and told him she didn't think she'd get much out of the box with her luck, but she'd offer him his choice of a few cards if he found any he wanted.
Pay attention, cause that is what's going to cause the transition into the grey area of "Should I hold her to her word, or be a decent person?"
So she gets her box and, after opening everything, pulls a FOIL Ajani, a Mana Confluence, and some other mythic rare (maybe a god card). Naturally, she's super excited, and news travelled fast through the room at what she pulled. The guy who bought her box leaves his box and table, comes over, and tells her he wants all three of those cards as his picks for buying her box. Before she even starts deck constructing. In total, he snagged at least 100$ in those three cards.
So here's the question: Was he really entitled to all three of the money cards, or just an equal amount for what he paid, or none at all?
If it helps to give an idea of how much I hate this guy (who I shall call Mike), here's what he did after the first pre-release that I attended. One guy pulled two Athreos out of his box, and was going to sell them to the store for credit. Mike heard about it, and went up to guy and told him the store would give him 10-15$ credit per Athreos, but he'd buy them both for 20$ a piece straight money. The guy sold them to him, then Mike turned around and took one of the Athreos to this couple I met at our box table who both pulled a Mana Confluence. They really wanted an Athreos, so he told them that he's trade them one of his for both Mana Confluences, even though they were worth only 10$ a pop, he was willing to lose 5$ on the trade because he needed those cards, so they took the trade. When they came outside and told me what happened, I told them they got screwed, and Mike does a lot of big talking to get people to lose money on trades with him. They were a little sad and upset, but still happy they at least had an Athreos.
Well, in all fairness the woman did offer him his choice of cards that came out of the box. So, she should be held to her word to an extent.
Though, he shouldn't have taken all of her good stuff. Maybe just half of it. He did go in with her 50/50 on it, so he was entitled to half of it. He didn't have to give her any money, but he did.
But, if what came out of the box was worth 100 dollars in 3 cards, and the rest was bulk, and a few dollar rares, so a total of about 110 dollars, and he took 100 dollars worth of it, then he totally screwed her over. He at least should have let her keep something good that she packed. After all, she had a horse in that race too.
As for the second story, they should have done their research on the price of the cards, but overall, he was waaaay in the wrong for that one. Confluences go for 20 a pop, and athreos goes for 23 a piece. So they should have looked things up and made sure they were getting a trade, but it seems like Mike is a guy who goes around and rips people off. I would probably sternly tell him to stay away from me and the people i like. Maybe go a step further, and walk by his trades, and casually tell people to make sure they don't get ripped off by him.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
Well, in all fairness the woman did offer him his choice of cards that came out of the box. So, she should be held to her word to an extent.
Though, he shouldn't have taken all of her good stuff. Maybe just half of it. He did go in with her 50/50 on it, so he was entitled to half of it. He didn't have to give her any money, but he did.
But, if what came out of the box was worth 100 dollars in 3 cards, and the rest was bulk, and a few dollar rares, so a total of about 110 dollars, and he took 100 dollars worth of it, then he totally screwed her over. He at least should have let her keep something good that she packed. After all, she had a horse in that race too.
As for the second story, they should have done their research on the price of the cards, but overall, he was waaaay in the wrong for that one. Confluences go for 20 a pop, and athreos goes for 23 a piece. So they should have looked things up and made sure they were getting a trade, but it seems like Mike is a guy who goes around and rips people off. I would probably sternly tell him to stay away from me and the people i like. Maybe go a step further, and walk by his trades, and casually tell people to make sure they don't get ripped off by him.
Nah, he let the girl save her 15$ and paid for the full box. But even still, I don't think he should have taken all three of the money cards, considering FOIL Ajani is prolly worth store credit bank.
I thought Mana Cons and Athreos' were going about 25-30$ each, still near a one-to-one trade.
But yeah, my first run in with "Mike" was when my son took my girlfriend's control deck to FNM one night. I wasn't around for this, but my son told me that Mike wanted to look through his deck after the event and help him get a better build. He saw we had three Sphinx's Revelations, and told my son he would help him out since he was new. My son said Mike told him Revelations were such a good card and hard to find, but not too expensive. He needed some, and was willing to buy all three for 20$ cash, even though they were 5$ a piece, and that way my son could buy 4 online and have a stronger deck next week. This was at a time when the stores in our area were selling Revelations at 27$ a piece. My son got real excited, and was about to take his trade when my girlfriend walked in to pick him up from FNM, heard what my son told her, and proceeded to rip Mike a new A-hole for swindling an 11 year-old child who had only played Magic for a month.
Well, in all fairness the woman did offer him his choice of cards that came out of the box. So, she should be held to her word to an extent.
Though, he shouldn't have taken all of her good stuff. Maybe just half of it. He did go in with her 50/50 on it, so he was entitled to half of it. He didn't have to give her any money, but he did.
But, if what came out of the box was worth 100 dollars in 3 cards, and the rest was bulk, and a few dollar rares, so a total of about 110 dollars, and he took 100 dollars worth of it, then he totally screwed her over. He at least should have let her keep something good that she packed. After all, she had a horse in that race too.
As for the second story, they should have done their research on the price of the cards, but overall, he was waaaay in the wrong for that one. Confluences go for 20 a pop, and athreos goes for 23 a piece. So they should have looked things up and made sure they were getting a trade, but it seems like Mike is a guy who goes around and rips people off. I would probably sternly tell him to stay away from me and the people i like. Maybe go a step further, and walk by his trades, and casually tell people to make sure they don't get ripped off by him.
Nah, he let the girl save her 15$ and paid for the full box. But even still, I don't think he should have taken all three of the money cards, considering FOIL Ajani is prolly worth store credit bank.
I thought Mana Cons and Athreos' were going about 25-30$ each, still near a one-to-one trade.
But yeah, my first run in with "Mike" was when my son took my girlfriend's control deck to FNM one night. I wasn't around for this, but my son told me that Mike wanted to look through his deck after the event and help him get a better build. He saw we had three Sphinx's Revelations, and told my son he would help him out since he was new. My son said Mike told him Revelations were such a good card and hard to find, but not too expensive. He needed some, and was willing to buy all three for 20$ cash, even though they were 5$ a piece, and that way my son could buy 4 online and have a stronger deck next week. This was at a time when the stores in our area were selling Revelations at 27$ a piece. My son got real excited, and was about to take his trade when my girlfriend walked in to pick him up from FNM, heard what my son told her, and proceeded to rip Mike a new A-hole for swindling an 11 year-old child who had only played Magic for a month.
The guy is a douche, but Mana Confluence are only 16$ right now. The best you can do is just try to educate people about their transactions and let people know his 'reputation'. Though that doesn't absolve the people in the trade from their responsibility to know what the value of their property is....
Both parties here could stand to put a little more effort into defining their transactions and agreements. An agreement of "every money rare in these packs will be mine" or "You give me up to ~$20 of cards from the box" or "I get to pick one rare from the box" could all be totally reasonable, but neither person bothered to define it. The way I'm reading this scenario (second hand, of course), it's not a matter of morality but of intelligence. The lady in question, after managing to not bring enough money to even play in the first place, trusted a complete stranger in a vague verbal contract. Mike invested in a complete stranger for an undefined potential payout. That situation is never going to end well.
Based on your other anecdotes, Mike is a real douche. That kind of reputation can haunt a regular at a shop, and I would expect him to not do well there for much longer.
By the way, does nobody at your shop have price apps? Everybody uses them at mine. I don't think I've witnessed a single bad trade in the six months I've been going.
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Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
Both parties here could stand to put a little more effort into defining their transactions and agreements. An agreement of "every money rare in these packs will be mine" or "You give me up to ~$20 of cards from the box" or "I get to pick one rare from the box" could all be totally reasonable, but neither person bothered to define it. The way I'm reading this scenario (second hand, of course), it's not a matter of morality but of intelligence. The lady in question, after managing to not bring enough money to even play in the first place, trusted a complete stranger in a vague verbal contract. Mike invested in a complete stranger for an undefined potential payout. That situation is never going to end well.
Based on your other anecdotes, Mike is a real douche. That kind of reputation can haunt a regular at a shop, and I would expect him to not do well there for much longer.
By the way, does nobody at your shop have price apps? Everybody uses them at mine. I don't think I've witnessed a single bad trade in the six months I've been going.
All the players there that have been at it for a long time have price apps, or know websites to go to. The problem is that it's a tiny store, the owner hates MtG, but makes money off it, and no one really cares or regulates anything because it makes more work for the TOs to do, and they'd rather have everyone figure out their own problems. Another part of the reason we left: the store has pretty much become a club for old Magic players to test each other's "money decks" against.
And Yoshi, no, not exaggerating. I played the girl second round and talked to her about it for the match. She said he came over and just hovered around her until she gave up her cards, and went away. She said she at least got a picture to prove to people she pulled it. It was just sad, you know. That's why it bothers me.
These new players are going to hate the game because they don't have anything, people are ripping them off, and they don't realize they're wasting their money paying to play in events where everyone has 200$+ decks at FNM, hoping for pack prizes. It's the same uphill battle we had when we first started there, and it took us about six months and three really nice people to help us figure out what really happens.
He took them before she played? Because that's a complete douche move, and might be against the rules. She should have been able to play with her entire pool.
So she gets her box and, after opening everything, pulls a FOIL Ajani, a Mana Confluence, and some other mythic rare (maybe a god card). Naturally, she's super excited, and news travelled fast through the room at what she pulled. The guy who bought her box leaves his box and table, comes over, and tells her he wants all three of those cards as his picks for buying her box. Before she even starts deck constructing. In total, he snagged at least 100$ in those three cards.
She still got to play with them, right? Because they're part of her sealed pool, she would have needed them in order to play in the tournament...
Nah, he let the girl save her 15$ and paid for the full box. But even still, I don't think he should have taken all three of the money cards, considering FOIL Ajani is prolly worth store credit bank.
That seems like a pretty important point to leave out of your opening post. He ended up paying for the whole box so it is reasonable he got to keep all the cards. And the lady got to play for free.
I thought Mana Cons and Athreos' were going about 25-30$ each, still near a one-to-one trade.
The thing about Magic cards is that they don't have definitive values, no matter how much some people seem to believe they do. Right now, IDeal808 (a huge dealer on TCGPlayer) has 22 Mana Confluence for $16.44 each and 9 Athreos, God of Passage for $22.89. Going by those values, they certainly don't look like a one-to-one trade to me. Emphasis on "to me." Feel free to put whatever values you want to on your own cards and in your own trades, but you cannot insist that other people use the same values you do. Value is relative.
I don't think it is cool to judge another person because they got a good deal. In this case, you are using one set of values, while he was using another. IDeal808, eBay, SCG, and your local store may use different values. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Truth is less relative, however. If a person is saying something that isn't true, whether unknowingly or on purpose, it is okay to correct them. You can't say a card is worth an exact amount of money, but you CAN point out that certain stores buy or sell them at certain prices or whatever.
If he paid for the whole box I see no reason he shouldn't keep the cards. If not for him she couldn't even have played. She got to play for free.
If he did agree to do it though he certainly should have let her use them in the tournament first but then again, with the value, maybe he was afraid they would get damaged.
If it helps to give an idea of how much I hate this guy (who I shall call Mike), here's what he did after the first pre-release that I attended. One guy pulled two Athreos out of his box, and was going to sell them to the store for credit. Mike heard about it, and went up to guy and told him the store would give him 10-15$ credit per Athreos, but he'd buy them both for 20$ a piece straight money. The guy sold them to him, then Mike turned around and took one of the Athreos to this couple I met at our box table who both pulled a Mana Confluence. They really wanted an Athreos, so he told them that he's trade them one of his for both Mana Confluences, even though they were worth only 10$ a pop, he was willing to lose 5$ on the trade because he needed those cards, so they took the trade. When they came outside and told me what happened, I told them they got screwed, and Mike does a lot of big talking to get people to lose money on trades with him. They were a little sad and upset, but still happy they at least had an Athreos.
Anyway, opinions?
Most shops have very stern rules against actual cash transactions between players. In any shop I have been to you would be looking at a store ban for buying or selling on the store premises because the store wants as much of that money themselves (gotta pay rent).
Here's the thing, I probably would have done something stupid and inadvisable to this guy already if he is over 18 since he tried to take advantage of my kid, but I can be a bit unreasonable when it comes to them. You probably shouldn't take that same path, but if it were me I would do something to try and make this guy more cautious when you are in ear-shot. Also, talk to as many people at the shop as you can and share your opinion of him and the stuff you have seen. If it is true and other people see the same thing it won't be very long before he has no one to engage with at the shop.
Personally? I would report the activities of this player to the owner of the store. Let them know how this player is harming the experience at their shop and that said person is driving away business from that store as a result. I would let new players at the store know about this person and how they shouldn't trade with him because he lies about values and rips off those he trades with.
However, if the owner of the store doesn't care about the magic community there, then I would definitely look at finding a better store to play at.
If he paid for the pool technically she wasn't entitled to anything (accept for maybe prizes).
I used to buy my friend into two-headed giant pools at pre-releases. If we did well I'd maybe give him a pack or two for helping me out and I always let him have one of the participation foils, but otherwise he knew he was really just playing to play. He loved it because he didnt have much money at the time and I was letting him play in an event, and I loved it because we usually did pretty good so it was a way to win some packs at pre-releases.
If he payed the full $30 for the event, than not only is he entitled to the "$100" worth of cards in the box, heck, He's entitled to every single bulk card in the box also.
And any of this "he screwed her over" nonsense is total garbage. Getting to play in a pre-release for free that you otherwise wouldn't even have had the chance to play in does not count as getting screwed over no matter how you slice it.
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But taking the cards from her sealed pool before she build her deck is a big no-no. He's messing with the sealed pool and therefore the tournament itself.
I guess I just feel like I remember what it was like to be a new player at one time. When I came in, some really cool people helped me out. The TO for the store gave me one of his pack prizes the very first time I played and came in dead last because he was willing to give up a blind chance at a good card for a repeat player to grow and have fun.
A couple of months ago I attended a FNM two states over where the payout was in store credit instead of packs. I played against this new kid with a weird but decent G/W deck, and I had so much fun because I played G/W for a long time, and it was cool to see a newbie playing the same colors. But he didn't have any Advent of the Worms, and G/W needs those if it wants some bulk. So with my store credit winnings, I bought him a playset of them and gave them to it. I could have bought myself one new card for my deck, but I cared enough to help a new player like I got helped when I started.
Clearly I'm too much of a "play for fun" person than a "play to prove my superiority" person.
I guess I just feel like I remember what it was like to be a new player at one time. When I came in, some really cool people helped me out. The TO for the store gave me one of his pack prizes the very first time I played and came in dead last because he was willing to give up a blind chance at a good card for a repeat player to grow and have fun.
A couple of months ago I attended a FNM two states over where the payout was in store credit instead of packs. I played against this new kid with a weird but decent G/W deck, and I had so much fun because I played G/W for a long time, and it was cool to see a newbie playing the same colors. But he didn't have any c]Advent of the Worm[/c]s, and G/W needs those if it wants some bulk. So with my store credit winnings, I bought him a playset of them and gave them to it. I could have bought myself one new card for my deck, but I cared enough to help a new player like I got helped when I started.
Clearly I'm too much of a "play for fun" person than a "play to prove my superiority" person.
Yeah, you aren't the type of person who would cheat a small child out of their cards it seems either. There are two types of people. Those who play for the love of the game, and the people who play for the love of winning and getting new cards.
I personally always give my good cards that i don't need to my friends, as long as they aren't worth big amounts of money. If they are, i save them up and trade them in for store credit alongside my friends, and buy a bunch of packs with them. Then we all throw in money and open packs, sell what we don't want or cant use for more packs, until we get good cards that we can use.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
It's kind of odd how you withhold information from us to get people on your side. Like you insinuated he paid for half the box then took all her rares. Then in a later post you casually point out that he paid for the entire box. Like you obviously only want to hear one opinion in this thread. And sometimes people really, really want a card or think values of cards will go up or down, especially before cards enter constructed formats. I would value mana confluence well above athreos for several reasons(confluence can gon in most decks, will hold value after rotation, it's a land). Remember ral zarek was $26 before he entered constructed, and mutavault was $12 before rotation.
Seems like you just want people to agree with you so you manipulate information. I mean he basically did a massive favor for that girl as he could have easily just bought multiple pre-release packs for himself, but instead he used that money to buy someone into the tournament. I mean I've seen people buy 5 or so of those tournaments boxes, I would gladly turn over the cards for a free ride through a tournament with a chance to win cards for myself.
So this happened at a pre-release Saturday, and it's really been causing me to be upset, so I wanted to see how many people kind of agree with me, and how many people just have no conscience (sp?) when it comes to pieces of cardboard with pictures on them.
So, there have been a group of new players coming to the store near my house recently (they started two weeks ago, the pre-release was their second event at the store). There was one lady who came with 15$, and didn't realize the event was 30$ to play, so this guy (THIS FRIGGIN GUY!) said he would pay for her because she was new. The lady was really thankful, and told him she didn't think she'd get much out of the box with her luck, but she'd offer him his choice of a few cards if he found any he wanted.
Pay attention, cause that is what's going to cause the transition into the grey area of "Should I hold her to her word, or be a decent person?"
So she gets her box and, after opening everything, pulls a FOIL Ajani, a Mana Confluence, and some other mythic rare (maybe a god card). Naturally, she's super excited, and news travelled fast through the room at what she pulled. The guy who bought her box leaves his box and table, comes over, and tells her he wants all three of those cards as his picks for buying her box. Before she even starts deck constructing. In total, he snagged at least 100$ in those three cards.
So here's the question: Was he really entitled to all three of the money cards, or just an equal amount for what he paid, or none at all?
If it helps to give an idea of how much I hate this guy (who I shall call Mike), here's what he did after the first pre-release that I attended. One guy pulled two Athreos out of his box, and was going to sell them to the store for credit. Mike heard about it, and went up to guy and told him the store would give him 10-15$ credit per Athreos, but he'd buy them both for 20$ a piece straight money. The guy sold them to him, then Mike turned around and took one of the Athreos to this couple I met at our box table who both pulled a Mana Confluence. They really wanted an Athreos, so he told them that he's trade them one of his for both Mana Confluences, even though they were worth only 10$ a pop, he was willing to lose 5$ on the trade because he needed those cards, so they took the trade. When they came outside and told me what happened, I told them they got screwed, and Mike does a lot of big talking to get people to lose money on trades with him. They were a little sad and upset, but still happy they at least had an Athreos.
Anyway, opinions?
I'm reposting the very first post of this thread, highlighting in BOLD and UNDERLINE where I say from the very beginning that he paid full out for her box. I never covered it up, I simply saw people may have glanced over it because people tend to TL;DR, so I clarified it again later.
I appreciate people saying "His money, his box." It's an opinion question, and that's a valid opinion even if it seems like a douche move to a still relatively new player.
It's silly to have people jump in when they didn't bother to read anything, and feel their opinion is valid.
Personally by "Pay for her" I thought you meant cover the 15 that she didn't have. It was a giant douche move to take her best cards. I mean, if he really needed any of those cards for something specific, it would make sense for him to want those cards.
But if he just wanted those cards for the money, it wasn't cool of him. I could see him wanting some of it if he paid for some, and i guess if he paid for it all, it is all technically his. But he paid for her. It was like a gift that he gave her. Like, if you buy someone a lottery ticket, and they win 50,000 dollars off it, are you entitled to all of that money? It's a rough question.
Though, bottom line, she did offer, and if i had to choose, of course i'm gonna pick the best cards out of the pack to take.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
Yeah. Mostly from talking to her, it just sounded like he was being nice, and she was trying to be nice. But one of the things I want to bring back up is that she's a brand new player. If people take advantage of her and the other brand new players, they are gonna drop Magic like the life-crippling habit we all struggle to live with.
I think it's a bit ridiculous for people to be heavy on the "she got to play for free" factor when she's played for less than a month. No one expects her to be able to place in an event with seasoned to veteran players being brand new. It took eight months before I came into a Top 8.
And also, again, YES, he took her cards before she deck built. She played a White deck splashed Black. If she had that Mana Confluence and Ajani, she could have easily splashed Green and had an actual shot for prizes.
Yeah, not only is that not cool to do, but also illegal from the tourney standpoint. If you noticed it beforehand you should have called him out. Maybe got him disqualified. Then he might have lost interest and left before the tourney was over and she could have kept her cards. Would have served him right. He didn't deserve to compete. Not that day.
Now... please tell me he didn't use that Ajani or Mana Confluence in HIS deck, because that would have been a double whammy of illegal. I assume the tournament organizers would have had to realize that happening...
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
Yeah, not only is that not cool to do, but also illegal from the tourney standpoint. If you noticed it beforehand you should have called him out. Maybe got him disqualified. Then he might have lost interest and left before the tourney was over and she could have kept her cards. Would have served him right. He didn't deserve to compete. Not that day.
Now... please tell me he didn't use that Ajani or Mana Confluence in HIS deck, because that would have been a double whammy of illegal. I assume the tournament organizers would have had to realize that happening...
I did not know of it until Round 2, when I was talking to the girl herself.
As for the second point, I don't know what kind of deck he built. I never played him because I was getting my butt handed to me by bad luck all night. I assume he would at least be smart enough to not use the FOIL Ajani, since the news of that travelled so quick, everyone knew where it would have come from. As for the others, I can't say one way or the other. I CAN say, however, was that he ended up placing first.
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So, there have been a group of new players coming to the store near my house recently (they started two weeks ago, the pre-release was their second event at the store). There was one lady who came with 15$, and didn't realize the event was 30$ to play, so this guy (THIS FRIGGIN GUY!) said he would pay for her because she was new. The lady was really thankful, and told him she didn't think she'd get much out of the box with her luck, but she'd offer him his choice of a few cards if he found any he wanted.
Pay attention, cause that is what's going to cause the transition into the grey area of "Should I hold her to her word, or be a decent person?"
So she gets her box and, after opening everything, pulls a FOIL Ajani, a Mana Confluence, and some other mythic rare (maybe a god card). Naturally, she's super excited, and news travelled fast through the room at what she pulled. The guy who bought her box leaves his box and table, comes over, and tells her he wants all three of those cards as his picks for buying her box. Before she even starts deck constructing. In total, he snagged at least 100$ in those three cards.
So here's the question: Was he really entitled to all three of the money cards, or just an equal amount for what he paid, or none at all?
If it helps to give an idea of how much I hate this guy (who I shall call Mike), here's what he did after the first pre-release that I attended. One guy pulled two Athreos out of his box, and was going to sell them to the store for credit. Mike heard about it, and went up to guy and told him the store would give him 10-15$ credit per Athreos, but he'd buy them both for 20$ a piece straight money. The guy sold them to him, then Mike turned around and took one of the Athreos to this couple I met at our box table who both pulled a Mana Confluence. They really wanted an Athreos, so he told them that he's trade them one of his for both Mana Confluences, even though they were worth only 10$ a pop, he was willing to lose 5$ on the trade because he needed those cards, so they took the trade. When they came outside and told me what happened, I told them they got screwed, and Mike does a lot of big talking to get people to lose money on trades with him. They were a little sad and upset, but still happy they at least had an Athreos.
Anyway, opinions?
Though, he shouldn't have taken all of her good stuff. Maybe just half of it. He did go in with her 50/50 on it, so he was entitled to half of it. He didn't have to give her any money, but he did.
But, if what came out of the box was worth 100 dollars in 3 cards, and the rest was bulk, and a few dollar rares, so a total of about 110 dollars, and he took 100 dollars worth of it, then he totally screwed her over. He at least should have let her keep something good that she packed. After all, she had a horse in that race too.
As for the second story, they should have done their research on the price of the cards, but overall, he was waaaay in the wrong for that one. Confluences go for 20 a pop, and athreos goes for 23 a piece. So they should have looked things up and made sure they were getting a trade, but it seems like Mike is a guy who goes around and rips people off. I would probably sternly tell him to stay away from me and the people i like. Maybe go a step further, and walk by his trades, and casually tell people to make sure they don't get ripped off by him.
Nah, he let the girl save her 15$ and paid for the full box. But even still, I don't think he should have taken all three of the money cards, considering FOIL Ajani is prolly worth store credit bank.
I thought Mana Cons and Athreos' were going about 25-30$ each, still near a one-to-one trade.
But yeah, my first run in with "Mike" was when my son took my girlfriend's control deck to FNM one night. I wasn't around for this, but my son told me that Mike wanted to look through his deck after the event and help him get a better build. He saw we had three Sphinx's Revelations, and told my son he would help him out since he was new. My son said Mike told him Revelations were such a good card and hard to find, but not too expensive. He needed some, and was willing to buy all three for 20$ cash, even though they were 5$ a piece, and that way my son could buy 4 online and have a stronger deck next week. This was at a time when the stores in our area were selling Revelations at 27$ a piece. My son got real excited, and was about to take his trade when my girlfriend walked in to pick him up from FNM, heard what my son told her, and proceeded to rip Mike a new A-hole for swindling an 11 year-old child who had only played Magic for a month.
The guy is a douche, but Mana Confluence are only 16$ right now. The best you can do is just try to educate people about their transactions and let people know his 'reputation'. Though that doesn't absolve the people in the trade from their responsibility to know what the value of their property is....
The scummy part was not letting her build a deck from her pool, but I suspect you're exaggerating that part.
Based on your other anecdotes, Mike is a real douche. That kind of reputation can haunt a regular at a shop, and I would expect him to not do well there for much longer.
By the way, does nobody at your shop have price apps? Everybody uses them at mine. I don't think I've witnessed a single bad trade in the six months I've been going.
All the players there that have been at it for a long time have price apps, or know websites to go to. The problem is that it's a tiny store, the owner hates MtG, but makes money off it, and no one really cares or regulates anything because it makes more work for the TOs to do, and they'd rather have everyone figure out their own problems. Another part of the reason we left: the store has pretty much become a club for old Magic players to test each other's "money decks" against.
And Yoshi, no, not exaggerating. I played the girl second round and talked to her about it for the match. She said he came over and just hovered around her until she gave up her cards, and went away. She said she at least got a picture to prove to people she pulled it. It was just sad, you know. That's why it bothers me.
These new players are going to hate the game because they don't have anything, people are ripping them off, and they don't realize they're wasting their money paying to play in events where everyone has 200$+ decks at FNM, hoping for pack prizes. It's the same uphill battle we had when we first started there, and it took us about six months and three really nice people to help us figure out what really happens.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
She still got to play with them, right? Because they're part of her sealed pool, she would have needed them in order to play in the tournament...
That seems like a pretty important point to leave out of your opening post. He ended up paying for the whole box so it is reasonable he got to keep all the cards. And the lady got to play for free.
The thing about Magic cards is that they don't have definitive values, no matter how much some people seem to believe they do. Right now, IDeal808 (a huge dealer on TCGPlayer) has 22 Mana Confluence for $16.44 each and 9 Athreos, God of Passage for $22.89. Going by those values, they certainly don't look like a one-to-one trade to me. Emphasis on "to me." Feel free to put whatever values you want to on your own cards and in your own trades, but you cannot insist that other people use the same values you do. Value is relative.
I don't think it is cool to judge another person because they got a good deal. In this case, you are using one set of values, while he was using another. IDeal808, eBay, SCG, and your local store may use different values. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Truth is less relative, however. If a person is saying something that isn't true, whether unknowingly or on purpose, it is okay to correct them. You can't say a card is worth an exact amount of money, but you CAN point out that certain stores buy or sell them at certain prices or whatever.
If he did agree to do it though he certainly should have let her use them in the tournament first but then again, with the value, maybe he was afraid they would get damaged.
Here's the thing, I probably would have done something stupid and inadvisable to this guy already if he is over 18 since he tried to take advantage of my kid, but I can be a bit unreasonable when it comes to them. You probably shouldn't take that same path, but if it were me I would do something to try and make this guy more cautious when you are in ear-shot. Also, talk to as many people at the shop as you can and share your opinion of him and the stuff you have seen. If it is true and other people see the same thing it won't be very long before he has no one to engage with at the shop.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
However, if the owner of the store doesn't care about the magic community there, then I would definitely look at finding a better store to play at.
2. Lying to people about prices when trading is scummy, no doubt.
I used to buy my friend into two-headed giant pools at pre-releases. If we did well I'd maybe give him a pack or two for helping me out and I always let him have one of the participation foils, but otherwise he knew he was really just playing to play. He loved it because he didnt have much money at the time and I was letting him play in an event, and I loved it because we usually did pretty good so it was a way to win some packs at pre-releases.
And any of this "he screwed her over" nonsense is total garbage. Getting to play in a pre-release for free that you otherwise wouldn't even have had the chance to play in does not count as getting screwed over no matter how you slice it.
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But taking the cards from her sealed pool before she build her deck is a big no-no. He's messing with the sealed pool and therefore the tournament itself.
A couple of months ago I attended a FNM two states over where the payout was in store credit instead of packs. I played against this new kid with a weird but decent G/W deck, and I had so much fun because I played G/W for a long time, and it was cool to see a newbie playing the same colors. But he didn't have any Advent of the Worms, and G/W needs those if it wants some bulk. So with my store credit winnings, I bought him a playset of them and gave them to it. I could have bought myself one new card for my deck, but I cared enough to help a new player like I got helped when I started.
Clearly I'm too much of a "play for fun" person than a "play to prove my superiority" person.
Yeah, you aren't the type of person who would cheat a small child out of their cards it seems either. There are two types of people. Those who play for the love of the game, and the people who play for the love of winning and getting new cards.
I personally always give my good cards that i don't need to my friends, as long as they aren't worth big amounts of money. If they are, i save them up and trade them in for store credit alongside my friends, and buy a bunch of packs with them. Then we all throw in money and open packs, sell what we don't want or cant use for more packs, until we get good cards that we can use.
Seems like you just want people to agree with you so you manipulate information. I mean he basically did a massive favor for that girl as he could have easily just bought multiple pre-release packs for himself, but instead he used that money to buy someone into the tournament. I mean I've seen people buy 5 or so of those tournaments boxes, I would gladly turn over the cards for a free ride through a tournament with a chance to win cards for myself.
I'm reposting the very first post of this thread, highlighting in BOLD and UNDERLINE where I say from the very beginning that he paid full out for her box. I never covered it up, I simply saw people may have glanced over it because people tend to TL;DR, so I clarified it again later.
I appreciate people saying "His money, his box." It's an opinion question, and that's a valid opinion even if it seems like a douche move to a still relatively new player.
It's silly to have people jump in when they didn't bother to read anything, and feel their opinion is valid.
But if he just wanted those cards for the money, it wasn't cool of him. I could see him wanting some of it if he paid for some, and i guess if he paid for it all, it is all technically his. But he paid for her. It was like a gift that he gave her. Like, if you buy someone a lottery ticket, and they win 50,000 dollars off it, are you entitled to all of that money? It's a rough question.
Though, bottom line, she did offer, and if i had to choose, of course i'm gonna pick the best cards out of the pack to take.
I think it's a bit ridiculous for people to be heavy on the "she got to play for free" factor when she's played for less than a month. No one expects her to be able to place in an event with seasoned to veteran players being brand new. It took eight months before I came into a Top 8.
And also, again, YES, he took her cards before she deck built. She played a White deck splashed Black. If she had that Mana Confluence and Ajani, she could have easily splashed Green and had an actual shot for prizes.
Now... please tell me he didn't use that Ajani or Mana Confluence in HIS deck, because that would have been a double whammy of illegal. I assume the tournament organizers would have had to realize that happening...
I did not know of it until Round 2, when I was talking to the girl herself.
As for the second point, I don't know what kind of deck he built. I never played him because I was getting my butt handed to me by bad luck all night. I assume he would at least be smart enough to not use the FOIL Ajani, since the news of that travelled so quick, everyone knew where it would have come from. As for the others, I can't say one way or the other. I CAN say, however, was that he ended up placing first.