Hobbies are just the distraction that helps keep you sane from time to time.
I'd advise you to quit playing but hold onto the cards at first. Give it three months. Then, if you haven't given in and returned to the game, sell up completely. If you still have hesitations then, wait another three months.
If your collection is worth $30k now, it might be worth $40k in two years - or it might be worth $20k. Holding them is not a sure investment, it's a risk.
We always remember the risk we didn't take that would have worked out. How often do we remember the risk we did take that didn't work out? Lottery tickets, pre-ordering the red Theros god, or the poor sucker that bought over two thousand copies of Deathrite Shaman on MTGO as a speculation?
Signed - someone that has sold over 50 Revised dual lands and thousands of dollars in other Eternal staples (Wasteland, ONS fetches, FoW, foil Ravnica Bobs) in the past and does not regret it. I chose not to take the risk of holding them longterm.
I'm sorry to hear how you feel. I think many of us have felt bad about being obsessive about Magic. I know I go through periods where I don't play. I often think, man, if I knew as much about the stock market as I do Magic, I would be way more wealthy. In the end though, I love games, and if I'm not playing Magic, I play board or other card games. I like interacting with people, and many of my friends are gamers. When I read your post, I felt a lot of disappointment, and I just wanted to say, don't be so hard on yourself.
I play guitar too. I taught myself about 3-4 years ago when I turned 30. I'm solidly intermediate now, I can play songs and have fun composing my own music. I'm probably never going to perform for other people much, and I don't know if, when I have kids, they will love music like I do. My point is, if I stuck to the criteria of "eating, sleeping, working, developing meaningful relationships or improving myself," playing guitar would be a waste of time.
In the book, Zen and the Art of Archery, the first Westerner tells the story of trying to learn about Zen buddhism. He approaches a Zen master and asks if the master would teach him, but the master refuses. "I can't teach you Zen," the master tells him, "but I can teach you archery." Through archery, the master teaches him about Zen. He teaches to become the target, and pull the arrow in, and other lessons that require a certain way of being and thinking.
I think hobbies or pursuits help give you perspective. They show you the world in a different way, like how archery let this German guy learn about Zen. Guitar has opened me up more to hearing rhythm and appreciating the "feel" of things. Magic has opened me up to things too. I think learning any skill can change a person or allow one to learn more about him or herself. Sometimes it can help you see part of yourself you don't particularly like. It sounds like Magic has run its course with you for now, and I hope you can take some lessons or new ways of thinking with you to your new projects.
Only you can really know if it is the right time to quit. As far as your collection, I'm pretty sure there are official brokers and speculators that can advise you on such matters, I know theres a guy at starcity that does stuff like that, maybe email him? Don't let some random person on these forums tell you what to do with $30,000 worth of cards, talk to an expert. Your kids don't need $30,000 worth of cards, if they get interested in the game buy them an intro pack. Yeah it'd be cool as a teenager to get a bunch of powerful cards, but it would also be cool to live in a house with no mortgage or have 2 cars that are paid off.
Another thing, sharing a hobby with your child can bring a closeness to your child that you otherwise couldn't have. I mean a mutual hobby can be the difference between a child that comes to you with his or her problems, and a child that screams at you because they can't borrow the car.
As far as that guy on cockatrice goes;it's the internet. In the absence of repercussions humans are amoral. If no one knows them personally and there are no consequences, people turn into jerks. Look at any mmo or online FPS, it's just what people are like.
I think some people can just enjoy playing this game (though it seems like no one does), but a lot of people can only enjoy it when they win all the time. I have to admit this game is about 10 times more fun when you're winning than when you're losing. Personally I get really agitated when someone brings their tournament deck to the casual lobby of mtgo and stomps on my $15 brew. At a tournament though I can (mostly) accept losing when everyone understands it's competitive. My point is, if you can't enjoy how well you perform in the game, there might be a problem. Honestly I'd like to just sit down with two intro packs and play casually for 3-5 hours straight, but I can't yet.
Right now I have to seriously consider how much this game means to me. I can't afford to be seriously competitive, and it drives me insane purchasing singles for a brew, paying a tournament fee, then losing every single game and/or sitting on bye(s). At one point i had taken 7 byes in 5 tournaments and I had to get out of magic for awhile. I still can't accept there's a competitive scene I can't afford to be a part of. Playing casually online only does so much, I just need to win more.
I also understand how this feels. I have two young ones, full time job with plenty of challenge and an old guitar waiting for me to pick it up. It appears that there's a large demographic of older MtG-players with guitars. Maybe WotC should design some cards for us...
My collection is a bit more extensive than yours, by about 3-4 times and I've been playing for 20 years soon. I had a long stretch when I didn't really have a chance to play too many tournaments and had to stop judging too, as my time was needed with our first kid and I was working in middle of nowhere for four years. I propably would have quitted and sold my cards but for two reasons.
1) I have lots of friends who are either active or like to hang at magic events. There are several people, who have quit, sometimes over a decade ago, who still come to talk and see friends at events. I often borrow full decks to those guys if they get the itch.
2) I didn't need the money. I was working 50-60 hours a week in middle of nowhere, so I never had a chance to spend my money. Not that I'm inclined to go shopping or just enjoy spending. I rather buy something that has meaning for me, like a nice piece of land with a plot for a summer cabin for our kids. At the time I wasn't really buying that many cards either.
After getting back to civilization I got to play about four tournaments per year. This was enough for me to keep the spark going and I found that I enjoyed the games much more, than I did when I played several times per week. Later EDH came and was a nice addition, as I had aqquired a large collection and now had a chance to jam those strange cards into decks, so I new players could see them. I also did relatively well, and I've always loved tuning decks, so I could get most out of events.
Few years back I cut down on my extra cards. Sold few extra sets of power and lot of my extra duals and only kept the alpha/beta playsets (1x each for power, 4 of each dual). I also tried to complete my older sets (4x AN, 4x AQ, Lg, 4x Dk,4x P3K...) I'm still the go-to guy buying large collections, but I'm not looking for them actively anymore. This year I also started selling my extra old sealed boxes and I'm considering selling some of the extra loose boosters too. While I didn't collect those I do have random packs starting from Arabian Nights.
I still play at local PTQ's, making top-8 every now and then. I have stoppped playing in Pre-releases, but hopefully can start again, after kids get a bit older. Maybe they will also play, or maybe not. Not having cards in our native language does make it bit harder, but we'll see.
In the end I feel that taking a break from active gaming and selling the extras was pretty good move. I also donated about 25k cards to local youths organisation, so kids got to build decks and sometimes become active tournament players. I still kept everything I could imagine needing for playing Vintage, Legacy and Extended (Modern was not a format yet) and still kept a nice amount of tradables.
This worked for me, as I've been buying collections and selling singles for 16 years now, so it's such a normal way of life for me. Sure it takes some time, but I have recouped quite a bit of the money I have spent in the game too. The only problem with cards is that they take space and organising takes time, that could be used for other things too. Luckily we have the space, but time is not so easy to find. But having a source of money when something unexpected happens, like an relative needs to sell their summer cabin asap, is nice.
So my advise is to consider carefully. Taking few months off the game can make it much more enjoyable and dropping Cocatrice completely will help a lot. Faceless opponents behind a software that needs social agreement to work while being competitive isn't my idea of a recipe for success. If you have good friends you only see while playing magic, you might try to figure out if you could see each other outside tournaments. Just be aware that drinking beer on Fridays instead of FNM might be fun, but that might be much worse in your wifes opinion.
I would also avoid selling your whole collection. I do know a few people who have quit completely, but for every one that managed that, there's five that lapsed. And if you don't have friend who can borrow you whole decks, you might end up regretting letting go of those cards. So finding a deck or two you enjoy for Legacy and keeping them and maybe 50 possible cards for optimising the deck and sideboard will save you a lot of money in the long run. And I doubt that legacy staples will crash suddenly.
Hopefully you can find a good balance betwen family, work and hobbies. But with 5 little ones, I can understand that your wife might need as much as possible of your time also. That's usually my wifes complain also. After I showed how the money moves she agreed to let me keep dealing cards, but every now and then notes the amount of time keeping the cards in some semblance of order takes. Also keeping fit should be the one thing to prioritize over hobbies. Being healthy and fit will allow you more energy for your family even after work.
OP has a valid reason to quit playing. I can see how his line of thought could be applied to things other than magic as well. If it's in the way of happiness or life in general and it isn't useful to you any more, it makes sense to stop and move on.
I play mostly with my family and brothers during vacations. They seem to enjoy it because when we go on vacation we at best bring a dvd player, and are far away from cell service, so magic is a good way to pass the time when the weather is too poor to go outside and adventure on a quad or motor bike. I used to play almost every Friday at my local store in my home town but since I have moved to another city for university i haven't played as much as i used to. I still tinker with my decks and deck ideas here and there. You could say that i haven't quit magic but rather that i have put it into hibernation. When i go home for the summer to work i think i'll bring up my cards to play at the old store with my younger brother and old friends if they are there.
I don't think i'll ever fully quit playing magic. Then again i never did get involved with the competitive side to the game either. So for me the game is still the game where I can do silly things and not worry about if it works or sucks. I have never been a person who enjoys one on one competition (I do enjoy 1v1 casual btw). I enjoy team competitions or cooperation because they are more about working with other people than beating other people, and winning or failure is also a we instead of a me, so it's less of a burden to lose but still an elation to win.
I'v been playing and collecting since 2007.
One thing i have noticed with my self and obsession is that the deeper the obsession the faster I burn out. Once I burn out I lose interest in it for a long time.
Why do you just quit standard and keep having fun with what I'm sure is the thousands of cards you already have? If you have that large amount of cards you should be able to build a lot of fun decks.
I am a logical person. I believe that you can think rationally and intelligently about almost anything and come up with a good solution. If you don't want to read the entire post, I thought long and hard and realized that the positives of continuing to play don't outweigh the negatives.
Some background: I am a 34 year-old married physician with 5 children ages 8, 6, 5, 2 and 10 months. I started playing Magic at age 30 and have spent around $15,000 on cards which are now worth about $30,000 according to the link in my signature. I am an obsessive person and have become overly obsessed with Magic. My wife hates Magic (probably more because of my obsession and my having $30,000 worth of cards than an inherent dislike of the game) and would love for me to quit but respects that I love playing. My oldest 4 kids are all boys and my oldest 3 will play with me but are more into video games currently. I have always been a gamer, mostly video games and then D&D and now Magic (I rarely play the others now).
Here is the conversation that prompted my self-reflection that led to my decision. This happened on Cockatrice.
Opponent (when I was countering everything and beating him down with Delver) - "Nice f***ing God hand"
Me (later when I was losing after drawing my 6th land in a row and watching his Liliana tick up) - "That God hand isn't looking so good now."
Opponent - "That's because my deck is better."
Me - "You're at a place in your life where you enjoy trash talking over the internet about a card game to someone you don't know?"
Opponent - *leaves the game*
Although I thought I'd come up with a pretty good comeback, it didn't feel good. It started to make me realize how often I don't feel better after competing in Magic tournaments. If I play someone who is a jerk, I don't enjoy it, win or lose. If I lose, I don't really enjoy it. If I play someone who is nice and I win, I feel bad.
Then I started thinking about other things.
When I lived in a large city, there were lots of Magic tournaments. There were constant EDH games to get into, 4-5 Standard tournaments per week, 3-4 Limited tournaments per week, 2 Legacy tournaments per week, even 2 Vintage tournaments per year. I always felt kind of blah about the tournament, even if I'd done well (which I typically did not, except in Legacy). Regardless, it was only a few hours wasted and a short drive to be back at home. Now I live in a small town where there is a decent amount of EDH, weekly Standard and monthly Modern. I don't really get to play the formats I love (Legacy and Vintage) except on Cockatrice, which is too often a miserable experience.
I have a huge collection and was working towards getting a complete Legacy and Vintage collection. Why keep this when there isn't anyone around to play with?
I had two reasons for this:
1. I planned to travel to tournaments (Leg/Vin Championships, SCG Open, Legacy Grand Prix, Bazaar of Moxen) at some point in the future. Honestly, however, I would prefer to spend my vacation time and money on something else because I would more than likely not win the tournament (or even top 8) and instead of a few hours, I'd have wasted an entire weekend and lots of money. Plus, when was I really going to do this? My life isn't going to slow down until I'm retired.
2. I hoped my boys(kids?) would get into it and go to tournaments with me. The problem here is that that might not actually be that good for them. Getting into a nerdy game as a kid might not really be what's best for them. When I got into the game I was already a solid adult and it has changed me for the worse. What would it do to a kid trying to figure out who they are? Also, if I am so obsessed with the game that it takes me away from them, they might just learn to hate it as much as my wife.
So if I am questioning whether this is good for my kids, shouldn't I question whether it is good for me? I feel that everyone needs a hobby and I love to play Magic but does it really improve me? The way I gauge that is to think about being 20 years in the future and imagine if I will wish I'd play more Magic. The answer is "heck no!" In high school and college I was very athletic and played nerd games. As I have gotten older and responsibilities have mounted, I've left behind most of the athletics and only play Magic in my reduced free time.
Then it hit me: I'M WASTING MY TIME and there are few things more precious than time. I should be spending my time eating, sleeping, working, developing meaningful relationships or improving myself. If my hobby also does one of these, then it is never a waste of time.
My dad got me a Fender Stratocaster for my birthday recently so I'll be learning to play that, playing basketball with my kids, trying to improve my business/clinic and lifting weights more regularly as my hobbies now.
If you see any of yourself in what I have said here, I implore you to think about if quitting Magic is what's best for you. May you find a hobby that you find enjoyable and enriching.
So what am I doing with the cards? My wife and I discussed this. I initially was going to sell them because it is a lot of money and I really shouldn't have access to them. Then I realized that there is a chance I would regret that some day (as I have talked to many people that did just that and did regret it later) and that they may go up even more in value and I don't really need the money right now. I have instead decided to put them into bins and put them into storage, ALL OF THEM. I will think about selling them again in a year when I see what prices have done and how I feel about that decision at that time.
Thanks for reading if you got to here. I will probably check comments on this thread until they stop and then I will leave this site as well. I thought about trying to get banned but that shouldn't be necessary.
Even though this post is directly referring to your thoughts and upcoming decision to quit playing a card game, this really kind of bummed me out about life in general D:
Not me; I feel the opposite actually. It's neat to see that self-reflection has helped someone take charge of their life. Good work OP!
I just restarted Magic last year's may and to say the least, I too noticed that its becoming a problem. I wish I had done my research on decks first before buying a ton of cards when I can least afford it, but of course that his hindsight. I wasted a ton of money that could have been better spent elsewhere in life and as others stated Magic has some kind of halo effect where you just keep on buying more product to be competitive. I too will admit that I think about money when I buy meals that could go towards cards, which in hindsight is a very stupid way of thinking.
Going forward I have decided to stick to 2 or 3 modern decks and only buy event decks to play standard. I am also not going to allow myself to buy cards unless it goes with one of modern decks. That means no singles unless they can actually be used by one of those decks. I am also limiting my pack buying to only prerelease and sealed deck events (or any event that offers free packs). Other than that, I am no longer investing in buying/building new decks. I may even drop out of the prerelease and standard scenes in the long run, since both are expensive over the long run.
I also would recommend that you read the book "The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching" by Thich Nhat Hanh. It really gets you to focus on yourself and your issues (e.g. causing others to suffer, because you are suffering). I think Magic does play on people's competitiveness and insecurities - it subconscious in my opinion. When you "feel" that you are suffering, you inadvertently cause others to suffer with you and thus you are the cause of your own suffering (or problems). It was a major wake up call that I needed about my spending habits with Magic. That is why I decided to buy and maintain one Tier 1 deck that has always been competitive and maintain my oldies but goldies Soul Sisters deck. Other than that, my 2 other modern decks may end up on eBay, especially my fetch lands as they appeal too much to my Johnny with a hint of spike streak.
I also get my fix from MTGO and once I have time, Cockatrice since I know Cockatrice doesn't cost a dime to play. As for the dealing with bad players online, I just ignore it. It amazes me that we have adults who still think and act like teenagers, trash talking and thinking they are all that, lol. I wish you the best, but I agree with others, keep some of your decks that you cherish the most. That is what I am basically trying to force myself to do, since I know myself well enough that I would buy cards back. I also suggest sticking with non-rotating decks and formats since you can upgrade existing decks if you ever decide to come back.
If you're not having fun doing something, walk away. Life is just too damn short.
I've never been anywhere near your level of commitment to this game, but I feel that pull, and I'm conciously resisting it by limiting myself to three decks (sig). I do disagree that the game is bad for your kids, just because you went completely overboard doesn't mean that it couldn't be an enjoyable hobby for them
Just one quick observation: If you're the kind of person that can get that obsessed with one thing, and you also have a genuine love for music, you have the potential to become an amazing guitarist. Give that a proper shot. Playing music is incredibly satisfying, more so than playing Magic can ever be imho, and it doesn't have that unquenchable thirst quality.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
When I quit I initially just sold all of my extended staples(thank God). Then a few years later I noticed the huge upswing in the prices of legacy and EDH staples and went in and sold the rest. Now I have a closet full of basically junk... but its there if I ever need it. The only time I even play is if I am back in my hometown hanging out with friends. Last year I built an old cards peasant cube to play with them and that was fun. But like you I decided that I was dedicating too much time and effort into playing magic (this happened after I went to a different event for 4-5 weekends in a row).
As you can see I am still hanging around these forums, mostly for the debate threads. But I also like to peek in at prices now and then to see if anything new has jumped in price on me.
[quote from="TRAMD" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/549375-im-quitting-magic-heres-why?comment=1"]
2. I hoped my boys(kids?) would get into it and go to tournaments with me. The problem here is that that might not actually be that good for them. Getting into a nerdy game as a kid might not really be what's best for them. When I got into the game I was already a solid adult and it has changed me for the worse. What would it do to a kid trying to figure out who they are? Also, if I am so obsessed with the game that it takes me away from them, they might just learn to hate it as much as my wife.
Speaking as somebody that spend most of his childhood in a game store Magic helped me more than any other outlet I had. I have played magic since I was 11 (right around when Saviors of Kamigawa came out) and it really helped me a lot in life. For one my vocabulary is much more broad from some of the card names, it taught me sportsmanship, and even basic social skills. Because I was playing a game catered mostly to 18+ through interacting with them I was much more mature for my age. If they show interest don't hide them from tournament play.
If I were you I would save enough of the cards and build a cube. That's my ultimate goal. I'm tired of constructed play and don't want to constantly pay to draft. If I have a cube I can play without anything being set in stone deck wise and it would be a new experience each time I cube.
So, you're quitting Magic because you're 34 going on 15?
Am I seriously the first person to point out that you sound like you have the emotional maturity of one of your five (!!!) children?
I'll most likely get modded for saying all of this, but you honestly need to reevaluate your life priorities.
So what you are saying is you didn't read his post at all - or failed to comprehend it. Nice work.
Ignore him, he's trolling.
Bottom line, if it's not fun, take a break. There's no point in selling your cards (as you've already surmised OP). Put them in the closet, when the jerks of the internet leave, you can come back too
It seems to me that you're really missing the social incentives of playing the game. I don't do particularly well in tournaments either (my success is limited to cashing a few SCG Legacy opens), but I enjoy the experience because I have several good friends with me. Thinking back, I've always played Magic the most when I had a group of friends that also played, and I've been much more likely to walk away when I don't enjoy the social aspect.
Good luck with your future endeavors. I think it's laudable that you're making family and self-improvement your top priorities. When a game stops being fun, then it's time to stop playing.
Edit: I also wouldn't worry much about randos on Cockatrice. People will behavior poorly when there are no consequences for their behavior.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I am deeply touched by all the wonderful responses. I am working now but I will try to log on later and respond to your posts. Thank you. It is the multiple wonderful people like you that I will miss most.
Interesting post. I was intrigued by your post, as I am actually a 34 year old physician who is recently returning to magic after playing in high school many years ago!
I can see what you're getting at, and I think that if magic ever becomes such an overpowering obsession that it is overtaking my life, I would want to have the wisdom to see it and step back also. However, is there some reason you've decided it's all or nothing (I'm assuming you feel your personality will not allow this)? It really sounds like there may be some issues aside from the game of magic itself. For example (and not really asking you to tell us online, more of a question for introspection), WHY does your wife hate magic? Does she hate it because it's a fantasy themed CCG, or because she feels it cuts into your time with her and your family? Will switching to another hobby (even just playing guitar) simply be trading one obsession for another?
There is a big difference between playing casually once in a while, and needing to travel to tournaments, and collect every card ever printed. Perhaps taking a break and then returning casually is possible, but if you think not, then perhaps getting rid of most of your collection would prevent a "relapse"?
Also, teaching your children is not necessarily a bad thing, as one can have a, "nerdy" hobby and yet not be a social leper. Balance in all things, as it were. Perhaps you can teach them to play the formats you enjoy, and you can play once in a while, and not have to bother with the morons online (like me! :p)
Anyways, I wish you luck with your decision, and hope you find the right thing for you. I am hoping to not end up in your shoes in a few years time from spending waayyyy too much on pieces of cardboard!!
Finally, the obligatory InterWebz quote: "Can I haz your stuffs???!!"
I sympathize OP. I'm in a similar spot as you personally and professionally, and I've often felt the same way. The only thing that has kept me from burning out is that I limited myself to Legacy (for several reasons), and there's only a limited Legacy scene here. There's some good advice in this thread. If I could offer one thing, I'd say don't sell your cards. Most people come back to the game at some point, and I'm sure you've heard the sad stories of those who regret selling them. I'm one of them.
As a side note, if you stick it out, I'd recommend finding some friends to play with on Cockatrice (hell, look me up on there sometime). I just played a game recently where I had to "play Dad" and try to teach a kid about winning / losing with grace after he made some stupid comments and rage quit after he won game 2 and tied our best-of-three at 1-1. That kid and his attitude are everything that's wrong with the game, and those people seem to be growing on Cockatrice. However, I've met a couple friends through this site that play regularly on there, and those games are always fun...and at the most basic level, that's why we all play, right? To hang with friends?
I agree with most of the other posters and just take a break from it to see how you feel about the game then. The few times I've "quit" I eventually came back to play wishing I still had some of my older cards. I will take a month or 2 off if I'm feeling burned out any. MtG is a great game but it can be mentally exhausting at times.
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I do it with CashCrate and Swagbucks. Get paid to complete surveys, offers, and other online tasks. Refer friends and family to get even more money. It may not be a lot, but it adds up while messing around on the computer. If you have any questions, feel free to message me and I'll help the best I can.
So, you're quitting Magic because you're 34 going on 15?
Am I seriously the first person to point out that you sound like you have the emotional maturity of one of your five (!!!) children?
I'll most likely get modded for saying all of this, but you honestly need to reevaluate your life priorities.
So what you are saying is you didn't read his post at all - or failed to comprehend it. Nice work.
I comprehended it perfectly. He has a very poor sense of priorities and should probably worry more about feeding his five kids than the emotional problems a card game causes him.
He obviously won't tell us, but I would be very interested to know if the OP has any other kinds of addiction problems. Drugs, gambling, etc.
Don't worry about the wife - presumably you're the one bringing home (more of) the bacon and as long as you're contributing your share to the family, retirement goals and whatnot, using the rest for hobbies should be A-ok After all you don't complain much about her shoe collection, right? Just sayin! Or tell her instead of having a midlife crisis and buying a Harley or convertible, you decided to put your money in cards instead..
I am deeply touched by all the wonderful responses. I am working now but I will try to log on later and respond to your posts. Thank you. It is the multiple wonderful people like you that I will miss most.
I can relate to your post better than most TRAMD. Our life situations are fairly similar. I'm a DDS, Married, and operate my own surgery. I too have been incredibly hooked on MTG over the last few years (mostly online these days). I've deleted and reinstalled MTGO umpteen times and I always find myself downloading it, playing it obsessively for several weeks, realising my own shortcomings and then deleting it for a few months. My wife of course also hates magic.
As health professionals though, I think we owe it both to ourselves and our patients not to be obsessed by something that can unfocus us so much. I find my relationships (both with patients and personal) are much better the months I have nothing to do with magic. Im not sure whether its more sleep? or just more focus towards work.
I've realised that my eventual decline back into MTGO is due to 1. Boredom 2. Need for competition. This time around I've signed up for weekly guitar classes and fortnightly professional development courses. Hopefully this will keep me from falling back in to old habits.
2. I hoped my boys(kids?) would get into it and go to tournaments with me. The problem here is that that might not actually be that good for them. Getting into a nerdy game as a kid might not really be what's best for them. When I got into the game I was already a solid adult and it has changed me for the worse. What would it do to a kid trying to figure out who they are? Also, if I am so obsessed with the game that it takes me away from them, they might just learn to hate it as much as my wife.
Speaking as somebody that spend most of his childhood in a game store Magic helped me more than any other outlet I had. I have played magic since I was 11 (right around when Saviors of Kamigawa came out) and it really helped me a lot in life. For one my vocabulary is much more broad from some of the card names, it taught me sportsmanship, and even basic social skills. Because I was playing a game catered mostly to 18+ through interacting with them I was much more mature for my age. If they show interest don't hide them from tournament play.
I don't mean to belittle your experiences, but I've heard similar stories about a variety of other activities. We (humans) have the opportunity to learn from everything we do. The things you mention could be learned through other activities that offer advantages that Magic can't. Knowing nothing else about the OP's children, I'd caution against pushing them towards the game simply because their father seems like the kind of person to become easily obsessed with that sort of thing. Magic is not something you want to be obsessed with and those kids may be genetically predisposed to falling into that trap.
So, you're quitting Magic because you're 34 going on 15?
Am I seriously the first person to point out that you sound like you have the emotional maturity of one of your five (!!!) children?
I'll most likely get modded for saying all of this, but you honestly need to reevaluate your life priorities.
So what you are saying is you didn't read his post at all - or failed to comprehend it. Nice work.
I comprehended it perfectly. He has a very poor sense of priorities and should probably worry more about feeding his five kids than the emotional problems a card game causes him.
He obviously won't tell us, but I would be very interested to know if the OP has any other kinds of addiction problems. Drugs, gambling, etc.
I'm unsure if this is your intent, but you come off as a rather unsympathetic, almost callous individual. You attack the OPs priorities, but it's exactly that which he's addressing. He freely admits that he has an obsessive personality and is trying to re-organize his life so that he can spend more time with his family. You're clearly irritated by the fact that he has 5 children, but there's no evidence to suggest that they're wanting. The OP has ~$30,000 in magic cards and is in no hurry to redeem them, so I think it's fair to say he's rather well-off. I guess I just don't know what you're trying to accomplish here.
Hobbies are just the distraction that helps keep you sane from time to time.
I'd advise you to quit playing but hold onto the cards at first. Give it three months. Then, if you haven't given in and returned to the game, sell up completely. If you still have hesitations then, wait another three months.
If your collection is worth $30k now, it might be worth $40k in two years - or it might be worth $20k. Holding them is not a sure investment, it's a risk.
We always remember the risk we didn't take that would have worked out. How often do we remember the risk we did take that didn't work out? Lottery tickets, pre-ordering the red Theros god, or the poor sucker that bought over two thousand copies of Deathrite Shaman on MTGO as a speculation?
Signed - someone that has sold over 50 Revised dual lands and thousands of dollars in other Eternal staples (Wasteland, ONS fetches, FoW, foil Ravnica Bobs) in the past and does not regret it. I chose not to take the risk of holding them longterm.
I play guitar too. I taught myself about 3-4 years ago when I turned 30. I'm solidly intermediate now, I can play songs and have fun composing my own music. I'm probably never going to perform for other people much, and I don't know if, when I have kids, they will love music like I do. My point is, if I stuck to the criteria of "eating, sleeping, working, developing meaningful relationships or improving myself," playing guitar would be a waste of time.
In the book, Zen and the Art of Archery, the first Westerner tells the story of trying to learn about Zen buddhism. He approaches a Zen master and asks if the master would teach him, but the master refuses. "I can't teach you Zen," the master tells him, "but I can teach you archery." Through archery, the master teaches him about Zen. He teaches to become the target, and pull the arrow in, and other lessons that require a certain way of being and thinking.
I think hobbies or pursuits help give you perspective. They show you the world in a different way, like how archery let this German guy learn about Zen. Guitar has opened me up more to hearing rhythm and appreciating the "feel" of things. Magic has opened me up to things too. I think learning any skill can change a person or allow one to learn more about him or herself. Sometimes it can help you see part of yourself you don't particularly like. It sounds like Magic has run its course with you for now, and I hope you can take some lessons or new ways of thinking with you to your new projects.
Another thing, sharing a hobby with your child can bring a closeness to your child that you otherwise couldn't have. I mean a mutual hobby can be the difference between a child that comes to you with his or her problems, and a child that screams at you because they can't borrow the car.
As far as that guy on cockatrice goes;it's the internet. In the absence of repercussions humans are amoral. If no one knows them personally and there are no consequences, people turn into jerks. Look at any mmo or online FPS, it's just what people are like.
I think some people can just enjoy playing this game (though it seems like no one does), but a lot of people can only enjoy it when they win all the time. I have to admit this game is about 10 times more fun when you're winning than when you're losing. Personally I get really agitated when someone brings their tournament deck to the casual lobby of mtgo and stomps on my $15 brew. At a tournament though I can (mostly) accept losing when everyone understands it's competitive. My point is, if you can't enjoy how well you perform in the game, there might be a problem. Honestly I'd like to just sit down with two intro packs and play casually for 3-5 hours straight, but I can't yet.
Right now I have to seriously consider how much this game means to me. I can't afford to be seriously competitive, and it drives me insane purchasing singles for a brew, paying a tournament fee, then losing every single game and/or sitting on bye(s). At one point i had taken 7 byes in 5 tournaments and I had to get out of magic for awhile. I still can't accept there's a competitive scene I can't afford to be a part of. Playing casually online only does so much, I just need to win more.
My collection is a bit more extensive than yours, by about 3-4 times and I've been playing for 20 years soon. I had a long stretch when I didn't really have a chance to play too many tournaments and had to stop judging too, as my time was needed with our first kid and I was working in middle of nowhere for four years. I propably would have quitted and sold my cards but for two reasons.
1) I have lots of friends who are either active or like to hang at magic events. There are several people, who have quit, sometimes over a decade ago, who still come to talk and see friends at events. I often borrow full decks to those guys if they get the itch.
2) I didn't need the money. I was working 50-60 hours a week in middle of nowhere, so I never had a chance to spend my money. Not that I'm inclined to go shopping or just enjoy spending. I rather buy something that has meaning for me, like a nice piece of land with a plot for a summer cabin for our kids. At the time I wasn't really buying that many cards either.
After getting back to civilization I got to play about four tournaments per year. This was enough for me to keep the spark going and I found that I enjoyed the games much more, than I did when I played several times per week. Later EDH came and was a nice addition, as I had aqquired a large collection and now had a chance to jam those strange cards into decks, so I new players could see them. I also did relatively well, and I've always loved tuning decks, so I could get most out of events.
Few years back I cut down on my extra cards. Sold few extra sets of power and lot of my extra duals and only kept the alpha/beta playsets (1x each for power, 4 of each dual). I also tried to complete my older sets (4x AN, 4x AQ, Lg, 4x Dk,4x P3K...) I'm still the go-to guy buying large collections, but I'm not looking for them actively anymore. This year I also started selling my extra old sealed boxes and I'm considering selling some of the extra loose boosters too. While I didn't collect those I do have random packs starting from Arabian Nights.
I still play at local PTQ's, making top-8 every now and then. I have stoppped playing in Pre-releases, but hopefully can start again, after kids get a bit older. Maybe they will also play, or maybe not. Not having cards in our native language does make it bit harder, but we'll see.
In the end I feel that taking a break from active gaming and selling the extras was pretty good move. I also donated about 25k cards to local youths organisation, so kids got to build decks and sometimes become active tournament players. I still kept everything I could imagine needing for playing Vintage, Legacy and Extended (Modern was not a format yet) and still kept a nice amount of tradables.
This worked for me, as I've been buying collections and selling singles for 16 years now, so it's such a normal way of life for me. Sure it takes some time, but I have recouped quite a bit of the money I have spent in the game too. The only problem with cards is that they take space and organising takes time, that could be used for other things too. Luckily we have the space, but time is not so easy to find. But having a source of money when something unexpected happens, like an relative needs to sell their summer cabin asap, is nice.
So my advise is to consider carefully. Taking few months off the game can make it much more enjoyable and dropping Cocatrice completely will help a lot. Faceless opponents behind a software that needs social agreement to work while being competitive isn't my idea of a recipe for success. If you have good friends you only see while playing magic, you might try to figure out if you could see each other outside tournaments. Just be aware that drinking beer on Fridays instead of FNM might be fun, but that might be much worse in your wifes opinion.
I would also avoid selling your whole collection. I do know a few people who have quit completely, but for every one that managed that, there's five that lapsed. And if you don't have friend who can borrow you whole decks, you might end up regretting letting go of those cards. So finding a deck or two you enjoy for Legacy and keeping them and maybe 50 possible cards for optimising the deck and sideboard will save you a lot of money in the long run. And I doubt that legacy staples will crash suddenly.
Hopefully you can find a good balance betwen family, work and hobbies. But with 5 little ones, I can understand that your wife might need as much as possible of your time also. That's usually my wifes complain also. After I showed how the money moves she agreed to let me keep dealing cards, but every now and then notes the amount of time keeping the cards in some semblance of order takes. Also keeping fit should be the one thing to prioritize over hobbies. Being healthy and fit will allow you more energy for your family even after work.
Set to default
I play mostly with my family and brothers during vacations. They seem to enjoy it because when we go on vacation we at best bring a dvd player, and are far away from cell service, so magic is a good way to pass the time when the weather is too poor to go outside and adventure on a quad or motor bike. I used to play almost every Friday at my local store in my home town but since I have moved to another city for university i haven't played as much as i used to. I still tinker with my decks and deck ideas here and there. You could say that i haven't quit magic but rather that i have put it into hibernation. When i go home for the summer to work i think i'll bring up my cards to play at the old store with my younger brother and old friends if they are there.
I don't think i'll ever fully quit playing magic. Then again i never did get involved with the competitive side to the game either. So for me the game is still the game where I can do silly things and not worry about if it works or sucks. I have never been a person who enjoys one on one competition (I do enjoy 1v1 casual btw). I enjoy team competitions or cooperation because they are more about working with other people than beating other people, and winning or failure is also a we instead of a me, so it's less of a burden to lose but still an elation to win.
I'v been playing and collecting since 2007.
One thing i have noticed with my self and obsession is that the deeper the obsession the faster I burn out. Once I burn out I lose interest in it for a long time.
Not me; I feel the opposite actually. It's neat to see that self-reflection has helped someone take charge of their life. Good work OP!
Am I seriously the first person to point out that you sound like you have the emotional maturity of one of your five (!!!) children?
I'll most likely get modded for saying all of this, but you honestly need to reevaluate your life priorities.
Troll warning -Rax
I just restarted Magic last year's may and to say the least, I too noticed that its becoming a problem. I wish I had done my research on decks first before buying a ton of cards when I can least afford it, but of course that his hindsight. I wasted a ton of money that could have been better spent elsewhere in life and as others stated Magic has some kind of halo effect where you just keep on buying more product to be competitive. I too will admit that I think about money when I buy meals that could go towards cards, which in hindsight is a very stupid way of thinking.
Going forward I have decided to stick to 2 or 3 modern decks and only buy event decks to play standard. I am also not going to allow myself to buy cards unless it goes with one of modern decks. That means no singles unless they can actually be used by one of those decks. I am also limiting my pack buying to only prerelease and sealed deck events (or any event that offers free packs). Other than that, I am no longer investing in buying/building new decks. I may even drop out of the prerelease and standard scenes in the long run, since both are expensive over the long run.
I also would recommend that you read the book "The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching" by Thich Nhat Hanh. It really gets you to focus on yourself and your issues (e.g. causing others to suffer, because you are suffering). I think Magic does play on people's competitiveness and insecurities - it subconscious in my opinion. When you "feel" that you are suffering, you inadvertently cause others to suffer with you and thus you are the cause of your own suffering (or problems). It was a major wake up call that I needed about my spending habits with Magic. That is why I decided to buy and maintain one Tier 1 deck that has always been competitive and maintain my oldies but goldies Soul Sisters deck. Other than that, my 2 other modern decks may end up on eBay, especially my fetch lands as they appeal too much to my Johnny with a hint of spike streak.
I also get my fix from MTGO and once I have time, Cockatrice since I know Cockatrice doesn't cost a dime to play. As for the dealing with bad players online, I just ignore it. It amazes me that we have adults who still think and act like teenagers, trash talking and thinking they are all that, lol. I wish you the best, but I agree with others, keep some of your decks that you cherish the most. That is what I am basically trying to force myself to do, since I know myself well enough that I would buy cards back. I also suggest sticking with non-rotating decks and formats since you can upgrade existing decks if you ever decide to come back.
I've never been anywhere near your level of commitment to this game, but I feel that pull, and I'm conciously resisting it by limiting myself to three decks (sig). I do disagree that the game is bad for your kids, just because you went completely overboard doesn't mean that it couldn't be an enjoyable hobby for them
Just one quick observation: If you're the kind of person that can get that obsessed with one thing, and you also have a genuine love for music, you have the potential to become an amazing guitarist. Give that a proper shot. Playing music is incredibly satisfying, more so than playing Magic can ever be imho, and it doesn't have that unquenchable thirst quality.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
When I quit I initially just sold all of my extended staples(thank God). Then a few years later I noticed the huge upswing in the prices of legacy and EDH staples and went in and sold the rest. Now I have a closet full of basically junk... but its there if I ever need it. The only time I even play is if I am back in my hometown hanging out with friends. Last year I built an old cards peasant cube to play with them and that was fun. But like you I decided that I was dedicating too much time and effort into playing magic (this happened after I went to a different event for 4-5 weekends in a row).
As you can see I am still hanging around these forums, mostly for the debate threads. But I also like to peek in at prices now and then to see if anything new has jumped in price on me.
Speaking as somebody that spend most of his childhood in a game store Magic helped me more than any other outlet I had. I have played magic since I was 11 (right around when Saviors of Kamigawa came out) and it really helped me a lot in life. For one my vocabulary is much more broad from some of the card names, it taught me sportsmanship, and even basic social skills. Because I was playing a game catered mostly to 18+ through interacting with them I was much more mature for my age. If they show interest don't hide them from tournament play.
So what you are saying is you didn't read his post at all - or failed to comprehend it. Nice work.
Ignore him, he's trolling.
Bottom line, if it's not fun, take a break. There's no point in selling your cards (as you've already surmised OP). Put them in the closet, when the jerks of the internet leave, you can come back too
Good luck with your future endeavors. I think it's laudable that you're making family and self-improvement your top priorities. When a game stops being fun, then it's time to stop playing.
Edit: I also wouldn't worry much about randos on Cockatrice. People will behavior poorly when there are no consequences for their behavior.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
I can see what you're getting at, and I think that if magic ever becomes such an overpowering obsession that it is overtaking my life, I would want to have the wisdom to see it and step back also. However, is there some reason you've decided it's all or nothing (I'm assuming you feel your personality will not allow this)? It really sounds like there may be some issues aside from the game of magic itself. For example (and not really asking you to tell us online, more of a question for introspection), WHY does your wife hate magic? Does she hate it because it's a fantasy themed CCG, or because she feels it cuts into your time with her and your family? Will switching to another hobby (even just playing guitar) simply be trading one obsession for another?
There is a big difference between playing casually once in a while, and needing to travel to tournaments, and collect every card ever printed. Perhaps taking a break and then returning casually is possible, but if you think not, then perhaps getting rid of most of your collection would prevent a "relapse"?
Also, teaching your children is not necessarily a bad thing, as one can have a, "nerdy" hobby and yet not be a social leper. Balance in all things, as it were. Perhaps you can teach them to play the formats you enjoy, and you can play once in a while, and not have to bother with the morons online (like me! :p)
Anyways, I wish you luck with your decision, and hope you find the right thing for you. I am hoping to not end up in your shoes in a few years time from spending waayyyy too much on pieces of cardboard!!
Finally, the obligatory InterWebz quote: "Can I haz your stuffs???!!"
As a side note, if you stick it out, I'd recommend finding some friends to play with on Cockatrice (hell, look me up on there sometime). I just played a game recently where I had to "play Dad" and try to teach a kid about winning / losing with grace after he made some stupid comments and rage quit after he won game 2 and tied our best-of-three at 1-1. That kid and his attitude are everything that's wrong with the game, and those people seem to be growing on Cockatrice. However, I've met a couple friends through this site that play regularly on there, and those games are always fun...and at the most basic level, that's why we all play, right? To hang with friends?
I comprehended it perfectly. He has a very poor sense of priorities and should probably worry more about feeding his five kids than the emotional problems a card game causes him.
He obviously won't tell us, but I would be very interested to know if the OP has any other kinds of addiction problems. Drugs, gambling, etc.
I can relate to your post better than most TRAMD. Our life situations are fairly similar. I'm a DDS, Married, and operate my own surgery. I too have been incredibly hooked on MTG over the last few years (mostly online these days). I've deleted and reinstalled MTGO umpteen times and I always find myself downloading it, playing it obsessively for several weeks, realising my own shortcomings and then deleting it for a few months. My wife of course also hates magic.
As health professionals though, I think we owe it both to ourselves and our patients not to be obsessed by something that can unfocus us so much. I find my relationships (both with patients and personal) are much better the months I have nothing to do with magic. Im not sure whether its more sleep? or just more focus towards work.
I've realised that my eventual decline back into MTGO is due to 1. Boredom 2. Need for competition. This time around I've signed up for weekly guitar classes and fortnightly professional development courses. Hopefully this will keep me from falling back in to old habits.
I don't mean to belittle your experiences, but I've heard similar stories about a variety of other activities. We (humans) have the opportunity to learn from everything we do. The things you mention could be learned through other activities that offer advantages that Magic can't. Knowing nothing else about the OP's children, I'd caution against pushing them towards the game simply because their father seems like the kind of person to become easily obsessed with that sort of thing. Magic is not something you want to be obsessed with and those kids may be genetically predisposed to falling into that trap.
I'm unsure if this is your intent, but you come off as a rather unsympathetic, almost callous individual. You attack the OPs priorities, but it's exactly that which he's addressing. He freely admits that he has an obsessive personality and is trying to re-organize his life so that he can spend more time with his family. You're clearly irritated by the fact that he has 5 children, but there's no evidence to suggest that they're wanting. The OP has ~$30,000 in magic cards and is in no hurry to redeem them, so I think it's fair to say he's rather well-off. I guess I just don't know what you're trying to accomplish here.