So you are okay with anyone swearing in front of children because some people can't help it? Is that your stance?
That's a big difference. Swearing is your own choice unless you have a disorder like Tourettes. People usually don't have the amount of control over their sweat glands necessary to stop smelling after a few hours in a hot, enclosed area.
This is BS. If you shower and use deodorant your BO won't become an issue after 1 day. I think most of the people in this thread are focusing on the people that smell like roadkill that has been sitting out in the sun for too long, not people that smell a bit sweaty (which deodorant can cover 90% of the time anyway.)
Actually swearing in public, be it in front of children or not falls under Public Disturbance and can very much get you arrested. If the parent believes you've caused mental trauma to the child with your language you can be sued for the costs of therapy/etc. So yes, it is entirely different than body odor.
Show me any law that has survived scrutiny. I just looked, found a bunch that were overturned. First Amendment protects a lot of behaviors. You can swear in front of minors, the police might try and ticket you for it, but I guarantee you can appeal it all the way up and your citation will be overturned.
And I could also tell a kid there is no santa claus and cause mental trauma that way, doesn't mean I am liable for their kids therapy.
No one is suggesting a tribunal in order to gain entry. We're suggesting that in the case of egregiously offensive odours, tournament organizers should have a procedure under which they can evaluate complaints, attempt to address them, and then, if necessary, fairly ask offensive players to leave the venue.
Some people in this thread quite clearly are...
And tournament organizers can ALREADY DO THIS if they actually agree with you that there is a problem. You are playing in a private event on private property. You dont need special rules from WOTC to ask people to leave your establishment for offending other customers.
Actually swearing in public, be it in front of children or not falls under Public Disturbance and can very much get you arrested. If the parent believes you've caused mental trauma to the child with your language you can be sued for the costs of therapy/etc. So yes, it is entirely different than body odor.
Show me any law that has survived scrutiny. I just looked, found a bunch that were overturned. First Amendment protects a lot of behaviors. You can swear in front of minors, the police might try and ticket you for it, but I guarantee you can appeal it all the way up and your citation will be overturned.
And I could also tell a kid there is no santa claus and cause mental trauma that way, doesn't mean I am liable for their kids therapy.
Anything you can receive a ticket for you can get arrested for. It's just usually not worth the officer's time to do so.
If you did anything to a child that could cause a parent to spend money on therapy, they can and likely would sue you for the costs, not to mention win. You can sue for anything. It doesn't always mean you will win. However, if you can prove that an individual caused you a loss (such as a therapy bill) you will likely win that case, especially if it involves children.
I'll repost what I said in the other thread about crack.
As a community I think we need to encourage TOs to adopt certain rules. No swearing, insulting, or using highly offensive words casually (rape is the one that is most commonly used casually despite its highly offensive nature). Acceptable hygiene is a must (you don't have to smell like roses but deodorant and a recent shower/bath should be required). Being appropriately clothed is a must (no crack showing, no offensive clothing, etc.). The reason I say the TOs should adopt these rules is that they actually have the most control and ability to do so. Simple put, they can ask people to leave their stores (or rented locations) if they don't obey. Business wise they may lose a very small amount, but they may gain a much higher amount by not driving people away. Wizards could even encourage this by giving away freebies or small discounts to TO's that implement these rules and enforce them. The last LGS I went to regularly did not allow swearing or insulting and they seemed to be doing fine, including having families there. People who came in during tournaments but weren't magic players weren't driven away, they saw the generally fun and boisterous atmosphere and then expressed interest and curiosity. Shockingly that's good for pretty much all involved!
Essentially take "No shirt, no shoes, no service" further.
Actually swearing in public, be it in front of children or not falls under Public Disturbance and can very much get you arrested. If the parent believes you've caused mental trauma to the child with your language you can be sued for the costs of therapy/etc. So yes, it is entirely different than body odor.
Show me any law that has survived scrutiny. I just looked, found a bunch that were overturned. First Amendment protects a lot of behaviors. You can swear in front of minors, the police might try and ticket you for it, but I guarantee you can appeal it all the way up and your citation will be overturned.
And I could also tell a kid there is no santa claus and cause mental trauma that way, doesn't mean I am liable for their kids therapy.
Time, place, and manner restrictions have been found to be constitutional many times. That's why it's illegal to play a boom box loudly at midnight in most major cities. That's sort of irrelevant though, Wizards is a private company and can ban anyone they want to. You have the right to say whatever you want, but if you're in my house I can kick your whenever I feel like it. Same principle.
I think it is going to be venue specfic. We have banned 3 players from our LGS until they learn to start showering. We basically told them, don't come here unless you intended to bathe first. No one wants to play you because you smell bad.
After buttcrack gate I have been giving this issue a lot of thought. I don't condone what was done to the players that were photographed, but I do think that they were all being quite rude to the other players at the tournament. I do not want to see your buttcrack, and if you do not wear clothes that cover it up then that is your own fault. I think that the same principle applies to other things as well-like people smelling like rotten skunks. Although technically judges are allowed to do stuff about this sort of thing now, in practice they don't. I'd love for smelly and poorly dressed people to be told to take a hike. They are rude and should be ostracized for their rudeness.
Too much cologne or perfume can also be unpleasant, some people even have allergic reactions.
I've never encountered a problem with body odor. Unless you count those wreaking of smoke. I'd prefer there be no smoking by participants (or Judges), but I'm not interested in trying to impose my preference on others.
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maybe I'm just lucky I haven't had to deal with it much at all. There's really only been one player I've dealt with on a regular basis who did not shower and I think he quit the game a month ago. Other than that I think there was one player who only played at our store who could have used a shower.
My opinion is that it is Wizard's event, so if they choose to not allow someone to play at their event for being unsanitary, then it's all in their right as a business to do so
It's a path no company wants to walk down where they turn people away for reasons such as hygiene.
Except that companies can and do walk down this path all the time. It's not desirable to do so often, for public relation reasons, but it doesn't mean risking a lawsuit; the procedures outlined are *exactly how* companies avoid charges of discrimination.
You're exactly right that Magic players would likely take to Twitter if they were being asked to leave for odor reasons - but that's only because they've been coddled in such a permissive environment for so long. Again, the convention circuit has been asking offensive-smelling attendees to leave for years now without a "PR nightmare".
So you are okay with anyone swearing in front of children because some people can't help it? Is that your stance?
Different situation entirely. Swearing in front of children can get you arrested and sued. Having bad Hygiene cannot. You're comparing something that is simply unpleasant to be around to something that is vulgar, obscene and can cause legal repercussions together (not to mention an angry father taking matters into his own hands).
Not really, not in america. We have protection under the 1st amendment. Also, conditions such as Tourette Syndrome invalidate your point. Another thing, it depends on your store owner's policy about swearing. The policy at my store is bring your kids at your/their own risk. We cater to adults. Some of the stuff we sell in the store might even be considered obscene to some parents. (Scantily clad fantasy statues and figurines). Hell some mothers object to comic books we sell because the female characters tend to be very busty and in tight clothing. If you bring kids in the store, and they learn a no-no word well that is on you. If you feel certain words are inherently bad then keep your kids away from it. It isn't your right to force everyone to change to suit you. It is your right to not be forced to be around crude language. But it also the LGS right to enforce a no greasy nasty unshowered nasty person policy.
None of the banned persons said they had any medical condition attributing to their BO. Aside from that, there is such a thing as prescription strength deodorant.
I think the real barrier to enforcing hygiene standards is that it's going to be open to a lot of slippery slope complaints. Someone is going to get banned for being <nasty> by a judge who is only 20% less <nasty>. Or the guys with buttcracks are going to get banned and then complain that foul odor or having half-naked anime chicks on your playmat is actually more disgusting, which could be true. Or the guys who get banned for smelling terrible are going to say I OFFERED TO GO GET DEODORANT IN MY ROOM WHY DID THEY EJECT ME FROM THE TOURNAMENT?!? Or the rule won't be applied in a fair way since like, there are some cracks that are very offensive and likely to be reported, whereas other cracks are not visible from across the room and will attract less enforcement attention.
Overall I have no problem with arbitrary hygiene rules.
I think it is going to be venue specfic. We have banned 3 players from our LGS until they learn to start showering. We basically told them, don't come here unless you intended to bathe first. No one wants to play you because you smell bad.
Have they changed their ways yet?
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One of them did. He was in the store buying stuff. One of my female employees told him he smelled nice. He is back, and constantly flirting with her. Too bad she is gay. He is a nice guy. I hate to be mean, but seriously it was turning my other customers off. I have to do what is best for my business.
As for the half naked anime girls on playmats. We enfore a strict no offensive images policy. If your playmat or sleeves are complained about then you gotta put them up. Mostly no one complains though. We did have a rather christian guy who used to have a drug problem ask that a person not use their pot leaf sleeves.
And tournament organizers can ALREADY DO THIS if they actually agree with you that there is a problem. You are playing in a private event on private property. You dont need special rules from WOTC to ask people to leave your establishment for offending other customers.
The advantage to Wizards setting a policy for all DCI-sanctioned tournaments is the the "uneven application" people fear is less likely to occur, and there's a way to appeal above the TO if you feel the tournament has overstepped its authority.
If it's left entirely up to the tournament organizer, as it is currently, you'll just end up with the current situation, which is that no TO is enforcing any hygiene standard because there's no community agreement to do so. Wizards can lead the community on this, for the betterment of the game.
After buttcrack gate I have been giving this issue a lot of thought. I don't condone what was done to the players that were photographed, but I do think that they were all being quite rude to the other players at the tournament. I do not want to see your buttcrack, and if you do not wear clothes that cover it up then that is your own fault. I think that the same principle applies to other things as well-like people smelling like rotten skunks. Although technically judges are allowed to do stuff about this sort of thing now, in practice they don't. I'd love for smelly and poorly dressed people to be told to take a hike. They are rude and should be ostracized for their rudeness.
Too much cologne or perfume can also be unpleasant, some people even have allergic reactions.
I've never encountered a problem with body odor. Unless you count those wreaking of smoke. I'd prefer there be no smoking by participants (or Judges), but I'm not interested in trying to impose my preference on others.
People that come to tournaments smelling like diseased skunks are imposing their smell on people that do not want to smell them. Besides, private institutions often limit membership for subjective reasons and require certain sorts of behavior. Wizards is a private company, not the US federal government.
So you are okay with anyone swearing in front of children because some people can't help it? Is that your stance?
Different situation entirely. Swearing in front of children can get you arrested and sued. Having bad Hygiene cannot. You're comparing something that is simply unpleasant to be around to something that is vulgar, obscene and can cause legal repercussions together (not to mention an angry father taking matters into his own hands).
Not really, not in america. We have protection under the 1st amendment. Also, conditions such as Tourette Syndrome invalidate your point. Another thing, it depends on your store owner's policy about swearing. The policy at my store is bring your kids at your/their own risk. We cater to adults. Some of the stuff we sell in the store might even be considered obscene to some parents. (Scantily clad fantasy statues and figurines). Hell some mothers object to comic books we sell because the female characters tend to be very busty and in tight clothing. If you bring kids in the store, and they learn a no-no word well that is on you. If you feel certain words are inherently bad then keep your kids away from it. It isn't your right to force everyone to change to suit you. It is your right to not be forced to be around crude language. But it also the LGS right to enforce a no greasy nasty unshowered nasty person policy.
None of the banned persons said they had any medical condition attributing to their BO. Aside from that, there is such a thing as prescription strength deodorant.
No, actually Wizards does have the right to force stores and players that use their products and tournament system to comply with rules set by Wizards. So you are basically 100% wrong.
No, actually Wizards does have the right to force stores and players that use their products and tournament system to comply with rules set by Wizards. So you are basically 100% wrong.
There are some limits to the rules that Wizards can "force" stores to apply. A restaurant that is open to the public (in the US) can enforce a dress code (within some limits) but cannot deny entry to someone based upon their race or religion, for instance.
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The community just needs to convince some of the bigger TO's to start enforcing some level of policies. Once enough stores do it, those that don't will either become specialized for that crowd or will change for business reasons.
Why should we have to breath in these noxious vapors from "outhouse guy"? Makes no sense. I'm withing my rights to say he's trying to create an unfair advantage by making me sick to my stomach and giving me a headache from his stink.
No, actually Wizards does have the right to force stores and players that use their products and tournament system to comply with rules set by Wizards. So you are basically 100% wrong.
Not in the legal sense do they have a right. Wizards can't sue an LGS that doesn't comply by their rules and win.
What they can do is use their leverage in order to get those stores to comply. The store most likely gets product directly from Wizards, and support for prereleases as well. Wizards could cut them off and make them lose all that money if the store doesn't play ball. If Wizards were to make a threat like that, the LGS would probably cave assuming the demand is easy enough to comply with. Wizards actually DOES do this when they tell stores they can't sell packs from a new set until the release date. And for prereleases, if an owner doesn't use all of the prize support WOTC gives them for free, you can report them and they probably won't get prize support for the next pre-release.
It has nothing to do with legal rights, unless for whatever reason they have every LGS sign contracts before selling them product. But I doubt that's how they do it, using the natural leverage of capitalism is easier.
And all that being said... if Wizards were to actually do something as extreme as force stores to have certain rules, that would cause so much unnecessary bad blood with LGS owners and players if the public opinion was against them on the decision. So with that in mind, it's more correct to say that Wizards doesn't have that right. Because practically they can't really do anything to make an LGS change their rules on who can play there.
Edit: The only reason I went out of my way to nit-pick on this issue is there seems to be a trend in that people are quick to interchange situations where one person has leverage over another and situations where it's actually a law. It's not in anyone's best interest to be overly strict when it comes to who can enter a tournament.
No, actually Wizards does have the right to force stores and players that use their products and tournament system to comply with rules set by Wizards. So you are basically 100% wrong.
Not in the legal sense do they have a right. Wizards can't sue an LGS that doesn't comply by their rules and win.
Wizards can stop selling them product and refuse to let them hold sanctioned tournaments. They can even ban people associated with the shop. That was my point, I wasn't saying they can sue a LGS for not living up to their standards.
It has nothing to do with legal rights, unless for whatever reason they have every LGS sign contracts before selling them product. But I doubt that's how they do it, using the natural leverage of capitalism is easier.
And all that being said... if Wizards were to actually do something as extreme as force stores to have certain rules, that would cause so much unnecessary bad blood with LGS owners and players if the public opinion was against them on the decision. So with that in mind, it's more correct to say that Wizards doesn't have that right. Because practically they can't really do anything to make an LGS change their rules on who can play there.
Edit: The only reason I went out of my way to nit-pick on this issue is there seems to be a trend in that people are quick to interchange situations where one person has leverage over another and situations where it's actually a law. It's not in anyone's best interest to be overly strict when it comes to who can enter a tournament.
This is way too speculative. I'm mostly talking about competitive REL events, but I guarantee that Wizards could easily get LGS owners to do this. A lot of magic players actively dislike smelly people and have no sympathy for them.
This is way too speculative. I'm mostly talking about competitive REL events, but I guarantee that Wizards could easily get LGS owners to do this. A lot of magic players actively dislike smelly people and have no sympathy for them.
Realistically there isn't enough momentum for something like this to happen. They would only make such a move if it was impacting attendence. And really LGS organizers would probably be the first to do something about it if it was impacting attendance.
But I disagree with the word "easily". And the issue is money. Say if WotC goes to StarCityGames and tells them that they want to start refusing entry to people who noticably smell. SCG is reluctant to do so because that means less money in entry fees and more work for the people running the event. They probably just say "ok" and then proceed to not refuse anyone because there is no one representing WoTC at any of these weekly SCG tournaments (as far as I know). So that means in order for WotC to effectively pull this off, they would have to be the people throwing people out. And that means they'd have to send people to enforce the rule (more money). And in throwing people out, they probably take a small economic hit because I'd imagine a chunk of those people might get turned off from Magic to some degree. I'm not saying they would quit, but say they drove 100 miles to be able to attend that SCG tournament, only to get kicked out. They might not be that thrilled to make the drive again for the next tournament.
Also, I imagine that SCG could potentially call WotC's bluff. If it's a small LGS, those guys are easy to manipulate. But SCG is a big player in the game. And if WotC shut out SCG for not playing ball, they hurt themselves because SCG's tournaments represent money on Magic products that wouldn't be spent, and additionally the tournaments help grow the game.
So ultimately this move isn't economically feasible.
And I would also question how big of a group of people would support Wizards if they did this. I've been to a small number of major tournaments... but a lot of FNMs, and I can tell you that I have only had a couple of experiences where someone smelled bad and probably never bad enough to warrant getting kicked out of a tournament. I would bet there would be a group of people that would accuse WotC of being strict and the inevitable Hitler comparisons would be made. I'm not saying the majority would hate it, but it wouldn't be 100% support. I think overall it's a negative economical decision for them.
If they want to do something about it. They can tie it to sportsmanship and only penalize the extreme cases.
This is way too speculative. I'm mostly talking about competitive REL events, but I guarantee that Wizards could easily get LGS owners to do this. A lot of magic players actively dislike smelly people and have no sympathy for them.
Realistically there isn't enough momentum for something like this to happen. They would only make such a move if it was impacting attendence. And really LGS organizers would probably be the first to do something about it if it was impacting attendance.
First of all, I disagree with the idea that Wizards doesn't think about the well being of players at tournaments. So your premise is wrong from the start and everything that follows from it needs to be rejected. Secondly, it's possible that more players would come to tournaments if the environment were improved. Smelly neckbeards promote the idea that magic is a game for delusional manchildren.
But I disagree with the word "easily". And the issue is money. Say if WotC goes to StarCityGames and tells them that they want to start refusing entry to people who noticably smell. SCG is reluctant to do so because that means less money in entry fees and more work for the people running the event. They probably just say "ok" and then proceed to not refuse anyone because there is no one representing WoTC at any of these weekly SCG tournaments (as far as I know). So that means in order for WotC to effectively pull this off, they would have to be the people throwing people out. And that means they'd have to send people to enforce the rule (more money). And in throwing people out, they probably take a small economic hit because I'd imagine a chunk of those people might get turned off from Magic to some degree. I'm not saying they would quit, but say they drove 100 miles to be able to attend that SCG tournament, only to get kicked out. They might not be that thrilled to make the drive again for the next tournament.
You're free to think that, but we're not talking about 10% of the people at a tournament. I honestly think you're delusional if you think this would impact their bottom line, especially since most players would get DQed after paying. Some might not come back, but not enough to matter.
Also, I imagine that SCG could potentially call WotC's bluff. If it's a small LGS, those guys are easy to manipulate. But SCG is a big player in the game. And if WotC shut out SCG for not playing ball, they hurt themselves because SCG's tournaments represent money on Magic products that wouldn't be spent, and additionally the tournaments help grow the game.
SCG would never do this and you are an idiot if you think they would. They enjoy a good relationship with Wizards and that is very important to their business.
So ultimately this move isn't economically feasible.
And I would also question how big of a group of people would support Wizards if they did this. I've been to a small number of major tournaments... but a lot of FNMs, and I can tell you that I have only had a couple of experiences where someone smelled bad and probably never bad enough to warrant getting kicked out of a tournament. I would bet there would be a group of people that would accuse WotC of being strict and the inevitable Hitler comparisons would be made. I'm not saying the majority would hate it, but it wouldn't be 100% support. I think overall it's a negative economical decision for them.
If they want to do something about it. They can tie it to sportsmanship and only penalize the extreme cases.
So on one hand we have a world in which almost no one really smells bad and other hand we have a world in which SCG's bottom line will be impacted by DQ people that smell. I don't think these two worlds can co-exist so maybe you should figure out which one is real.
Also layers have to have a REAL doctor's permission to be smelly. I can already see that the first thing everyone will do is say they are smelly because of a medical reason.
That's not usually how it's handled in the professional world. Usually, persons with a persistent medical odour issue are prescribed high-strength anti-perspirants or other products that aren't available over the counter; showing those would be proof enough. There's no need to require anyone produce a doctor's report.
This adds a level of bureaucracy wherein you have to deal with the AwDA.
This is a fine line I don't think wizards needs to tread down.
What fine line? If you stink, you are given the option to fix it. If you aren't willing to, out you go.
What about smokers? I find the smell coming off of them and their clothes to be very nauseating and distracting, so will we have no people who smoke at events too? Seems like a double standard otherwise.
Hell some mothers object to comic books we sell because the female characters tend to be very busty and in tight clothing.
You mean, just comics. LOL. I mean, you could say that about a lot of Marvel and DC comics, or are you just talking about those trashy Zenescope books?
This is BS. If you shower and use deodorant your BO won't become an issue after 1 day. I think most of the people in this thread are focusing on the people that smell like roadkill that has been sitting out in the sun for too long, not people that smell a bit sweaty (which deodorant can cover 90% of the time anyway.)
Show me any law that has survived scrutiny. I just looked, found a bunch that were overturned. First Amendment protects a lot of behaviors. You can swear in front of minors, the police might try and ticket you for it, but I guarantee you can appeal it all the way up and your citation will be overturned.
And I could also tell a kid there is no santa claus and cause mental trauma that way, doesn't mean I am liable for their kids therapy.
Some people in this thread quite clearly are...
And tournament organizers can ALREADY DO THIS if they actually agree with you that there is a problem. You are playing in a private event on private property. You dont need special rules from WOTC to ask people to leave your establishment for offending other customers.
Anything you can receive a ticket for you can get arrested for. It's just usually not worth the officer's time to do so.
If you did anything to a child that could cause a parent to spend money on therapy, they can and likely would sue you for the costs, not to mention win. You can sue for anything. It doesn't always mean you will win. However, if you can prove that an individual caused you a loss (such as a therapy bill) you will likely win that case, especially if it involves children.
As a community I think we need to encourage TOs to adopt certain rules. No swearing, insulting, or using highly offensive words casually (rape is the one that is most commonly used casually despite its highly offensive nature). Acceptable hygiene is a must (you don't have to smell like roses but deodorant and a recent shower/bath should be required). Being appropriately clothed is a must (no crack showing, no offensive clothing, etc.). The reason I say the TOs should adopt these rules is that they actually have the most control and ability to do so. Simple put, they can ask people to leave their stores (or rented locations) if they don't obey. Business wise they may lose a very small amount, but they may gain a much higher amount by not driving people away. Wizards could even encourage this by giving away freebies or small discounts to TO's that implement these rules and enforce them. The last LGS I went to regularly did not allow swearing or insulting and they seemed to be doing fine, including having families there. People who came in during tournaments but weren't magic players weren't driven away, they saw the generally fun and boisterous atmosphere and then expressed interest and curiosity. Shockingly that's good for pretty much all involved!
Essentially take "No shirt, no shoes, no service" further.
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Time, place, and manner restrictions have been found to be constitutional many times. That's why it's illegal to play a boom box loudly at midnight in most major cities. That's sort of irrelevant though, Wizards is a private company and can ban anyone they want to. You have the right to say whatever you want, but if you're in my house I can kick your whenever I feel like it. Same principle.
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Too much cologne or perfume can also be unpleasant, some people even have allergic reactions.
I've never encountered a problem with body odor. Unless you count those wreaking of smoke. I'd prefer there be no smoking by participants (or Judges), but I'm not interested in trying to impose my preference on others.
My opinion is that it is Wizard's event, so if they choose to not allow someone to play at their event for being unsanitary, then it's all in their right as a business to do so
Except that companies can and do walk down this path all the time. It's not desirable to do so often, for public relation reasons, but it doesn't mean risking a lawsuit; the procedures outlined are *exactly how* companies avoid charges of discrimination.
You're exactly right that Magic players would likely take to Twitter if they were being asked to leave for odor reasons - but that's only because they've been coddled in such a permissive environment for so long. Again, the convention circuit has been asking offensive-smelling attendees to leave for years now without a "PR nightmare".
Not really, not in america. We have protection under the 1st amendment. Also, conditions such as Tourette Syndrome invalidate your point. Another thing, it depends on your store owner's policy about swearing. The policy at my store is bring your kids at your/their own risk. We cater to adults. Some of the stuff we sell in the store might even be considered obscene to some parents. (Scantily clad fantasy statues and figurines). Hell some mothers object to comic books we sell because the female characters tend to be very busty and in tight clothing. If you bring kids in the store, and they learn a no-no word well that is on you. If you feel certain words are inherently bad then keep your kids away from it. It isn't your right to force everyone to change to suit you. It is your right to not be forced to be around crude language. But it also the LGS right to enforce a no greasy nasty unshowered nasty person policy.
None of the banned persons said they had any medical condition attributing to their BO. Aside from that, there is such a thing as prescription strength deodorant.
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Overall I have no problem with arbitrary hygiene rules.
Have they changed their ways yet?
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As for the half naked anime girls on playmats. We enfore a strict no offensive images policy. If your playmat or sleeves are complained about then you gotta put them up. Mostly no one complains though. We did have a rather christian guy who used to have a drug problem ask that a person not use their pot leaf sleeves.
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The advantage to Wizards setting a policy for all DCI-sanctioned tournaments is the the "uneven application" people fear is less likely to occur, and there's a way to appeal above the TO if you feel the tournament has overstepped its authority.
If it's left entirely up to the tournament organizer, as it is currently, you'll just end up with the current situation, which is that no TO is enforcing any hygiene standard because there's no community agreement to do so. Wizards can lead the community on this, for the betterment of the game.
People that come to tournaments smelling like diseased skunks are imposing their smell on people that do not want to smell them. Besides, private institutions often limit membership for subjective reasons and require certain sorts of behavior. Wizards is a private company, not the US federal government.
No, actually Wizards does have the right to force stores and players that use their products and tournament system to comply with rules set by Wizards. So you are basically 100% wrong.
There are some limits to the rules that Wizards can "force" stores to apply. A restaurant that is open to the public (in the US) can enforce a dress code (within some limits) but cannot deny entry to someone based upon their race or religion, for instance.
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Not in the legal sense do they have a right. Wizards can't sue an LGS that doesn't comply by their rules and win.
What they can do is use their leverage in order to get those stores to comply. The store most likely gets product directly from Wizards, and support for prereleases as well. Wizards could cut them off and make them lose all that money if the store doesn't play ball. If Wizards were to make a threat like that, the LGS would probably cave assuming the demand is easy enough to comply with. Wizards actually DOES do this when they tell stores they can't sell packs from a new set until the release date. And for prereleases, if an owner doesn't use all of the prize support WOTC gives them for free, you can report them and they probably won't get prize support for the next pre-release.
It has nothing to do with legal rights, unless for whatever reason they have every LGS sign contracts before selling them product. But I doubt that's how they do it, using the natural leverage of capitalism is easier.
And all that being said... if Wizards were to actually do something as extreme as force stores to have certain rules, that would cause so much unnecessary bad blood with LGS owners and players if the public opinion was against them on the decision. So with that in mind, it's more correct to say that Wizards doesn't have that right. Because practically they can't really do anything to make an LGS change their rules on who can play there.
Edit: The only reason I went out of my way to nit-pick on this issue is there seems to be a trend in that people are quick to interchange situations where one person has leverage over another and situations where it's actually a law. It's not in anyone's best interest to be overly strict when it comes to who can enter a tournament.
Wizards can stop selling them product and refuse to let them hold sanctioned tournaments. They can even ban people associated with the shop. That was my point, I wasn't saying they can sue a LGS for not living up to their standards.
It has nothing to do with legal rights, unless for whatever reason they have every LGS sign contracts before selling them product. But I doubt that's how they do it, using the natural leverage of capitalism is easier.
This is way too speculative. I'm mostly talking about competitive REL events, but I guarantee that Wizards could easily get LGS owners to do this. A lot of magic players actively dislike smelly people and have no sympathy for them.
Realistically there isn't enough momentum for something like this to happen. They would only make such a move if it was impacting attendence. And really LGS organizers would probably be the first to do something about it if it was impacting attendance.
But I disagree with the word "easily". And the issue is money. Say if WotC goes to StarCityGames and tells them that they want to start refusing entry to people who noticably smell. SCG is reluctant to do so because that means less money in entry fees and more work for the people running the event. They probably just say "ok" and then proceed to not refuse anyone because there is no one representing WoTC at any of these weekly SCG tournaments (as far as I know). So that means in order for WotC to effectively pull this off, they would have to be the people throwing people out. And that means they'd have to send people to enforce the rule (more money). And in throwing people out, they probably take a small economic hit because I'd imagine a chunk of those people might get turned off from Magic to some degree. I'm not saying they would quit, but say they drove 100 miles to be able to attend that SCG tournament, only to get kicked out. They might not be that thrilled to make the drive again for the next tournament.
Also, I imagine that SCG could potentially call WotC's bluff. If it's a small LGS, those guys are easy to manipulate. But SCG is a big player in the game. And if WotC shut out SCG for not playing ball, they hurt themselves because SCG's tournaments represent money on Magic products that wouldn't be spent, and additionally the tournaments help grow the game.
So ultimately this move isn't economically feasible.
And I would also question how big of a group of people would support Wizards if they did this. I've been to a small number of major tournaments... but a lot of FNMs, and I can tell you that I have only had a couple of experiences where someone smelled bad and probably never bad enough to warrant getting kicked out of a tournament. I would bet there would be a group of people that would accuse WotC of being strict and the inevitable Hitler comparisons would be made. I'm not saying the majority would hate it, but it wouldn't be 100% support. I think overall it's a negative economical decision for them.
If they want to do something about it. They can tie it to sportsmanship and only penalize the extreme cases.
First of all, I disagree with the idea that Wizards doesn't think about the well being of players at tournaments. So your premise is wrong from the start and everything that follows from it needs to be rejected. Secondly, it's possible that more players would come to tournaments if the environment were improved. Smelly neckbeards promote the idea that magic is a game for delusional manchildren.
You're free to think that, but we're not talking about 10% of the people at a tournament. I honestly think you're delusional if you think this would impact their bottom line, especially since most players would get DQed after paying. Some might not come back, but not enough to matter.
SCG would never do this and you are an idiot if you think they would. They enjoy a good relationship with Wizards and that is very important to their business.
So on one hand we have a world in which almost no one really smells bad and other hand we have a world in which SCG's bottom line will be impacted by DQ people that smell. I don't think these two worlds can co-exist so maybe you should figure out which one is real.
What about smokers? I find the smell coming off of them and their clothes to be very nauseating and distracting, so will we have no people who smoke at events too? Seems like a double standard otherwise.
You mean, just comics. LOL. I mean, you could say that about a lot of Marvel and DC comics, or are you just talking about those trashy Zenescope books?
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!