Is it against the rules to wear religious attire to a Magic: The Gathering tournament? Is it permissible to wear attire that expresses a religious position or espouses a message that advocates a particular lifestyle? Do tournament players enjoy protection from religious persecution?
I think it really depends on the message said apparrel is conveying. Blatantly antagonistic sayings like "God hates ****" or "**** Jesus" would generally be frowned upon, and you can be asked to leave/change by the HJ or TO if it is objectionable enough. Context is very important with this kind of question, as it's very easy to mislead and fish for the answer you want.
I think it really depends on the message said apparrel is conveying. Blatantly antagonistic sayings like "God hates ****" or "**** Jesus" would generally be frowned upon, and you can be asked to leave/change by the HJ or TO if it is objectionable enough. Context is very important with this kind of question, as ot's very easy to mislead and fish for the answer you want.
Good point, let's focus and dial-it in a bit. To do so I'll give a few examples:
"Jesus loves you"
"Jesus is Lord"
"Allah is King"
"God is alive"
I personally wouldn't see anything wrong with those particular sayings, but I don't speak for anyone else. A good, but conservative, rule of thumb: if you think there's a chance someone might be offended by what you wear, it's probably not a good idea to wear it.
I think it really depends on the message said apparrel is conveying. Blatantly antagonistic sayings like "God hates ****" or "**** Jesus" would generally be frowned upon, and you can be asked to leave/change by the HJ or TO if it is objectionable enough. Context is very important with this kind of question, as ot's very easy to mislead and fish for the answer you want.
Good point, let's focus and dial-it in a bit. To do so I'll give a few examples:
"Jesus loves you"
"Jesus is Lord"
"Allah is King"
"God is alive"
Would those sorts of things be objectionable?
Typically those pass the eye test. If there were multiple people complaining the judge might think about asking him to cover it up just to keep things moving along better.
Not only is the context of the message important, the context of the tournament's environment is also important. Certain words, phrases and forms of expression are weighed differently in different communities.
Personally, as said before, it depends. I have had people wear many pieces of attire stating things similar to what you said and the only one that anyone would have objected to in the area I am in is "Allah is King." Mostly because I am in Mississippi and there are many ignorant individuals who would assume terrorist type things about that here.
I think it really depends on the message said apparrel is conveying. Blatantly antagonistic sayings like "God hates ****" or "**** Jesus" would generally be frowned upon, and you can be asked to leave/change by the HJ or TO if it is objectionable enough. Context is very important with this kind of question, as ot's very easy to mislead and fish for the answer you want.
Good point, let's focus and dial-it in a bit. To do so I'll give a few examples:
"Jesus loves you"
"Jesus is Lord"
"Allah is King"
"God is alive"
Would those sorts of things be objectionable?
I think you need to do a little more to demonstrate how these phrases rise to the level of religious persecution. Do we carry this out and forbid crucifix and Star of David jewelery?
Now, I'd like to think that if you were being proselytized to during the course of a match, you could politely ask that your opponent constrain his communication to game information, or ask a judge to do the same.
I think it really depends on the message said apparrel is conveying. Blatantly antagonistic sayings like "God hates ****" or "**** Jesus" would generally be frowned upon, and you can be asked to leave/change by the HJ or TO if it is objectionable enough. Context is very important with this kind of question, as ot's very easy to mislead and fish for the answer you want.
Good point, let's focus and dial-it in a bit. To do so I'll give a few examples:
"Jesus loves you"
"Jesus is Lord"
"Allah is King"
"God is alive"
Would those sorts of things be objectionable?
Personally, I'd be offended by the top one at least, "Jesus love you". Probably not the others.
I think religious attire such as a hijab or a kippah is fine because it simply reflects the beliefs that you, yourself, hold.
What I would find objectionable would be attire that attempts to suggest that I should also hold those beliefs, which is what "Jesus loves you" portrays, in my opinion.
What if the belief a person holds is that Jesus, in fact, loves everybody?
I think it really depends on the message said apparrel is conveying. Blatantly antagonistic sayings like "God hates ****" or "**** Jesus" would generally be frowned upon, and you can be asked to leave/change by the HJ or TO if it is objectionable enough. Context is very important with this kind of question, as ot's very easy to mislead and fish for the answer you want.
Good point, let's focus and dial-it in a bit. To do so I'll give a few examples:
"Jesus loves you"
"Jesus is Lord"
"Allah is King"
"God is alive"
Would those sorts of things be objectionable?
Personally, I'd be offended by the top one at least, "Jesus love you". Probably not the others.
I think religious attire such as a hijab or a kippah is fine because it simply reflects the beliefs that you, yourself, hold.
What I would find objectionable would be attire that attempts to suggest that I should also hold those beliefs, which is what "Jesus loves you" portrays, in my opinion.
What if the belief a person holds is that Jesus, in fact, loves everybody?
Jesus clearly hates Canaanites, so he doesn't love everybody.
I don't care what you wear. I can't promise I won't roll my eyes when you aren't looking but it's your first amendment right to believe what you want to believe and say what you want to say.
I don't care what you wear. I can't promise I won't roll my eyes when you aren't looking but it's your first amendment right to believe what you want to believe and say what you want to say.
Except that the first amendment, for one, applies only in the United States (other countries have similar protections, of course) and it in no way enjoins Wizards or tournament organizers. Local human rights codes might, but constitutional guarantees only bind governments, not private entities.
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There are few men in this Parliament for whom I have greater respect than the leader of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation. I admire him in my heart, because time and again he has had the courage to say what lays on his conscience, regardless of what the world might think of him. A man of that calibre is an ornament to any Parliament.
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A friend of mine was paired with a guy wearing a cross. My friend made a big show of sticking his forefinger and pinky up and growling "Hail Satan" when he hit a topdeck. This really unnerved the other player, who told him not to do it and explained why that was so wrong and why respecting god is important. The thing is, it clearly tilted the other player. Perhaps my friend was out of line, but the worst he could technically get was probably a warning. By wearing a cross the guy gave my friend information that was used to tilt him and thow his focus off the match.
That being said, it's probably best that the magic community doesn't get a rep for being a bunch of satanists.
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I'm sure if the current provincial government here in Quebec passes their "Charter of Values", they'll find some way to apply the banning of religious symbols to Magic tournaments!
As it stands, the charter is designed to ban the wearing of religious items and articles of clothing for employees in the public sector. However, the current Premier (Pauline Marois) who has been dividing the population from day one has openly stated that she encourages private sector employers to apply this racist piece of legislation in the workplace of private businesses as well if/when it passes, which would create blatant discrimination that contravenes the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and would also never hold up to a superior court challenge. Suffice it to say the inmates are running the asylum here in Quebec.
Don't get me wrong... I'm all for a secular society which promotes equality. I also happen to be an agnostic who believes that most organized religions are nothing beyond superstitious nonsense based on the misinterpretation of archaic texts designed to control individuals and societies. However, I fully respect the beliefs of others and appreciate that religions have enriched society in many ways culturally. Furthermore, I don't believe in censorship, so I feel everyone should have the liberty to express whatever opinions or beliefs they have (however irrational they may be), which includes wearing whatever clothing they wish so long as it doesn't affect their ability to work and isn't done with the specific malicious intent of offending others and creating conflict. For example, shirts that state: "Jesus hates homosexuals (or another marginalized or religious group)" are inappropriate for a work environment, especially since you're representing an entity which is more often than not religiously neutral and doesn't share those types of opinions.
What's scary is that this "Charter of Values" bill might actually pass if the government wins a majority in the upcoming election in April, which will in turn lead to another mass exodus of health care professionals, educators, and visible ethnic minorities who are progressively discriminated here including many anglophones and allophones. Alas, this will only strengthen the separatists' hand who are trying to pass additional discriminatory bills (ie: "Bill 60") so they can gain support for a new independent sovereign country which in their delusional minds can somehow sustain itself (which it definitely won't be able to). In all truth, if that discriminatory piece of legislation ever does pass and become law, I'll probably start wearing some religious clothing just to spite the bigots.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
My thoughts are let them wear clothing with whatever message on it that they want, and you can do the same. Hiding speech in order to prevent offense just leads to further intolerance down the road as no one has learned that others have different beliefs than their own. Part of living in society means living with people that hold different beliefs.
When you wear clothes with a message, you are doing it out of principle, not out of necessity or comfort. And whenever you express a message out of principle, you are going to cause controversy, even if it's just in the mind of some people. This achieves nothing positive. Some people will be annoyed, others will be prejudiced against you from the get-go. What possible gain could there be in this? You have nothing to gain, and something to potentially lose (in terms of positive social interaction.) Thus there's no reason to do it.
Without controversy to challenge traditional beliefs there is no critical thought, there is merely acceptance of the status quo. If someone shows up wearing a shirt depicting Mohammed and their opponent is a devout Muslim, then guess what? It's on that players opponent to deal with it. They should accept that not everyone holds their beliefs. The same goes for depictions of Jesus with Christians, messages on abortion, education, social programs, and everything else. Accept that people will disagree and move on to doing what you both agree with which is playing Magic.
My thoughts are let them wear clothing with whatever message on it that they want, and you can do the same. Hiding speech in order to prevent offense just leads to further intolerance down the road as no one has learned that others have different beliefs than their own. Part of living in society means living with people that hold different beliefs.
When you wear clothes with a message, you are doing it out of principle, not out of necessity or comfort. And whenever you express a message out of principle, you are going to cause controversy, even if it's just in the mind of some people. This achieves nothing positive. Some people will be annoyed, others will be prejudiced against you from the get-go. What possible gain could there be in this? You have nothing to gain, and something to potentially lose (in terms of positive social interaction.) Thus there's no reason to do it.
Without controversy to challenge traditional beliefs there is no critical thought, there is merely acceptance of the status quo. If someone shows up wearing a shirt depicting Mohammed and their opponent is a devout Muslim, then guess what? It's on that players opponent to deal with it. They should accept that not everyone holds their beliefs. The same goes for depictions of Jesus with Christians, messages on abortion, education, social programs, and everything else. Accept that people will disagree and move on to doing what you both agree with which is playing Magic.
There is always a point where people draw the line with questions of speech.
For some people it's drawn at causing offence. For some people, it's at promoting hate. For others, it's inciting violence. And for others, it's providing 'how to' guides for vile things like child abuse, or screaming "Fire" in a crowded place or "Bomb" on an aeroplane.
As a rule of thumb, if I was running a tournament, I'd ask someone doing the former to stop, call the police for the 4th or 5th, and DQ someone for extreme unsportsmanlike behaviour for the 2nd to 5th.
"My invisible sky wizard friend is better than your archaic tribal deity."
You're not actually planning on wearing anything, and you just made this thread to amuse yourself with people's responses. Being a troll is fun when you're 14, but tedious and trite when you're an adult.
There is always a point where people draw the line with questions of speech.
For some people it's drawn at causing offence. For some people, it's at promoting hate. For others, it's inciting violence. And for others, it's providing 'how to' guides for vile things like child abuse, or screaming "Fire" in a crowded place or "Bomb" on an aeroplane.
As a rule of thumb, if I was running a tournament, I'd ask someone doing the former to stop, call the police for the 4th or 5th, and DQ someone for extreme unsportsmanlike behaviour for the 2nd to 5th.
Everything that's a divisive issue promotes hate, it's just a matter of which groups you identify with.
Sometimes violence is necessary, whether it is or not though who cares? If someone shows up with a shirt that says children and independent women need to be beaten into submission what's wrong with it? The act itself isn't being carried out in front of you.
How to guides aren't relevant because they go too in depth to make a statement on a piece of clothing or as a symbolic piece of jewelry. If the person is handing out pamphlets at the event that's something different and there's already laws which allow a store owner to say no soliciting on their property and we're getting into a really corner case that is in no way similar to what the OP is talking about.
Yelling fire is outlawed because the fire department has to respond, which takes away from their ability to fight real fires. It's the same idea as the Secret Service taking assassination threats seriously. When safety is concerned you have to assume the threat is real until proven otherwise. Bomb is no different. None the less these are verbal actions that someone would be taking in a store. If your shirt says Fire! it's hardly the same thing as yelling Fire!
Paired against this dude, real nice guy, mid 30's, new to the shop. He was wearing a t-shirt that said, 'There is no God but God.' Thinking this could be a reference to Shahada, one of the five pillars of Islam that states 'There is no god but God', (I spend waaaaay to much time in the middle east), as he sat down I made a judgement call and greeted him with the traditional 'al-salaam alekum' (peace be upon you). His response, 'what?'. Apparently super fundy christian, and now really offended, he played with this puss on for the rest of the match. Thats what I get for forgetting what state I'm in.
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Good point, let's focus and dial-it in a bit. To do so I'll give a few examples:
"Jesus loves you"
"Jesus is Lord"
"Allah is King"
"God is alive"
Would those sorts of things be objectionable?
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Typically those pass the eye test. If there were multiple people complaining the judge might think about asking him to cover it up just to keep things moving along better.
The only answer to your question is,"it depends".
I think you need to do a little more to demonstrate how these phrases rise to the level of religious persecution. Do we carry this out and forbid crucifix and Star of David jewelery?
Now, I'd like to think that if you were being proselytized to during the course of a match, you could politely ask that your opponent constrain his communication to game information, or ask a judge to do the same.
What if the belief a person holds is that Jesus, in fact, loves everybody?
Jesus clearly hates Canaanites, so he doesn't love everybody.
Except that the first amendment, for one, applies only in the United States (other countries have similar protections, of course) and it in no way enjoins Wizards or tournament organizers. Local human rights codes might, but constitutional guarantees only bind governments, not private entities.
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Currently solving:
Standard: Too poor for this format.
Modern: GW Auras, Living End, WB TurboFog, UB Mill, UR Storm
Legacy: R Burn, GU Infect, RG Lands, B Contamination
That being said, it's probably best that the magic community doesn't get a rep for being a bunch of satanists.
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
As it stands, the charter is designed to ban the wearing of religious items and articles of clothing for employees in the public sector. However, the current Premier (Pauline Marois) who has been dividing the population from day one has openly stated that she encourages private sector employers to apply this racist piece of legislation in the workplace of private businesses as well if/when it passes, which would create blatant discrimination that contravenes the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and would also never hold up to a superior court challenge. Suffice it to say the inmates are running the asylum here in Quebec.
Don't get me wrong... I'm all for a secular society which promotes equality. I also happen to be an agnostic who believes that most organized religions are nothing beyond superstitious nonsense based on the misinterpretation of archaic texts designed to control individuals and societies. However, I fully respect the beliefs of others and appreciate that religions have enriched society in many ways culturally. Furthermore, I don't believe in censorship, so I feel everyone should have the liberty to express whatever opinions or beliefs they have (however irrational they may be), which includes wearing whatever clothing they wish so long as it doesn't affect their ability to work and isn't done with the specific malicious intent of offending others and creating conflict. For example, shirts that state: "Jesus hates homosexuals (or another marginalized or religious group)" are inappropriate for a work environment, especially since you're representing an entity which is more often than not religiously neutral and doesn't share those types of opinions.
What's scary is that this "Charter of Values" bill might actually pass if the government wins a majority in the upcoming election in April, which will in turn lead to another mass exodus of health care professionals, educators, and visible ethnic minorities who are progressively discriminated here including many anglophones and allophones. Alas, this will only strengthen the separatists' hand who are trying to pass additional discriminatory bills (ie: "Bill 60") so they can gain support for a new independent sovereign country which in their delusional minds can somehow sustain itself (which it definitely won't be able to). In all truth, if that discriminatory piece of legislation ever does pass and become law, I'll probably start wearing some religious clothing just to spite the bigots.
More info about this nonsense bill which is aimed at banning religious clothing can be read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Charter_of_Values
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"Quetzalcoatl wants me to cut out your heart" has an interesting ring to it.
Without controversy to challenge traditional beliefs there is no critical thought, there is merely acceptance of the status quo. If someone shows up wearing a shirt depicting Mohammed and their opponent is a devout Muslim, then guess what? It's on that players opponent to deal with it. They should accept that not everyone holds their beliefs. The same goes for depictions of Jesus with Christians, messages on abortion, education, social programs, and everything else. Accept that people will disagree and move on to doing what you both agree with which is playing Magic.
There is always a point where people draw the line with questions of speech.
For some people it's drawn at causing offence. For some people, it's at promoting hate. For others, it's inciting violence. And for others, it's providing 'how to' guides for vile things like child abuse, or screaming "Fire" in a crowded place or "Bomb" on an aeroplane.
As a rule of thumb, if I was running a tournament, I'd ask someone doing the former to stop, call the police for the 4th or 5th, and DQ someone for extreme unsportsmanlike behaviour for the 2nd to 5th.
You're not actually planning on wearing anything, and you just made this thread to amuse yourself with people's responses. Being a troll is fun when you're 14, but tedious and trite when you're an adult.
Everything that's a divisive issue promotes hate, it's just a matter of which groups you identify with.
Sometimes violence is necessary, whether it is or not though who cares? If someone shows up with a shirt that says children and independent women need to be beaten into submission what's wrong with it? The act itself isn't being carried out in front of you.
How to guides aren't relevant because they go too in depth to make a statement on a piece of clothing or as a symbolic piece of jewelry. If the person is handing out pamphlets at the event that's something different and there's already laws which allow a store owner to say no soliciting on their property and we're getting into a really corner case that is in no way similar to what the OP is talking about.
Yelling fire is outlawed because the fire department has to respond, which takes away from their ability to fight real fires. It's the same idea as the Secret Service taking assassination threats seriously. When safety is concerned you have to assume the threat is real until proven otherwise. Bomb is no different. None the less these are verbal actions that someone would be taking in a store. If your shirt says Fire! it's hardly the same thing as yelling Fire!