18 months is absurd. How is he bullying? It's not like he confronted any of the people or even showed their faces. He didn't add captions to the images. They are just what they are. The pictures leave it up to the viewer to decide and take what they want from it. It's not like the pictures say look at these fat ***. Bullying how? He's not intimidating these people, he's not coercing them, and he certainly is not using any physical force against them. This whole thing is just ludicrous. I think wizards went overboard here.
18 months is in keeping with previous offenses of this nature. Previously, someone had uploaded pictures of tournament goers in an attempt to ridicule them, and he also got 18 months. Why the outcry against this clearly defined and equally applied DCI rule?
This guy did nothing bad except pointing out how unhygienic, self-neglecting and generally taste-lacking some people can be. Gods, if you are overweight, dress yourself in such a way that you won't show your ass crack. 18 months for this?
Man, these are the moments that I am glad that I am living in Europe, not in USA with their overcorectness...
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Legend of the Five Rings Tournaments give judges the ability to kick people out for Hygiene issues and inappropriate clothing. Instead of banning this guy for taking a humorist approach about the issues of inappropriate dress, they need to just fix the rules.
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Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
Legend of the Five Rings Tournaments give judges the ability to kick people out for Hygiene issues and inappropriate clothing. Instead of banning this guy for taking a humorist approach about the issues of inappropriate dress, they need to just fix the rules.
Magic judges have similar powers, they just a aren't exercised to any appreciable degree. Maybe it'll be a more common occurrence now?
I'm pretty mitigated about this. On the one hand, I don't think the guy who did the photograph went too far and he showed a real problem with the community. People should wear belts if they don't want their asscrack exposed. Probably didn't deserve a ban. On the other hand, I understand why WOTC banned the guy: they are trying to protect their brand and the players. This is a very unfortunate situation.
I wish some people had more self-consciousness or self-respect.
Quote from GradStudentGuy
Legend of the Five Rings Tournaments give judges the ability to kick people out for Hygiene issues and inappropriate clothing. Instead of banning this guy for taking a humorist approach about the issues of inappropriate dress, they need to just fix the rules.
Magic judges have similar powers, they just a aren't exercised to any appreciable degree. Maybe it'll be a more common occurrence now?
Sure, who decides what's appropiate or not?, are the player informed of this before? if someone is kicked out and wants to be reimburse?
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From Supernatural:
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
Quote from GradStudentGuy
Legend of the Five Rings Tournaments give judges the ability to kick people out for Hygiene issues and inappropriate clothing. Instead of banning this guy for taking a humorist approach about the issues of inappropriate dress, they need to just fix the rules.
Magic judges have similar powers, they just a aren't exercised to any appreciable degree. Maybe it'll be a more common occurrence now?
Sure, who decides what's appropiate or not?, are the player informed of this before? if someone is kicked out and wants to be reimburse?
Judges are perfectly able to use their discretion when determining if someone's dress, or manner is disruptive to the tournament.
As with most things, players get informed that they are disruptive as the need arises, and are asked to remedy the problem. Ignoring such requests can, and often does result in penalties.
Common examples of these powers in use are: asking a player to not use explicit playmats, or sleeves, asking a player to cover up offensive tattoos, asking a player to remove or change clothing, and so on.
We can go around in circles, but I don't see this as bullying. Bullying is such a buzzword right now that any time someone is mean to another person it gets lumped in with actual bullying - which is an actual problem. Being called out on your bull***** isn't nice, but it's not bullying. A community of self-criticism and communication - even if it is passive aggressive like these photos - creates a feedback loop that can help cause change. Instead, Wizards just set a precedent that says "making fun of people is a serious offense." Next, they'll start giving trophies to everyone so there are no losers.
< Loser. Got over how much it sucks that I'll never amount to anything, but at least now I'm not looking to others for validation.
Welp. I disagree completely. This isn't about validation and it isn't about a collective group hug. It's about requiring a basic level of respect and decency.
Really, I don't know what else I can say at this point. I probably would have gone with something less than an 18-month ban, but to say that what this guy did was anywhere within a mile of okay blows my mind. Clearly we see it differently.
"It's about requiring a basic level of respect and decency." - Exactly! And if people are not showing basic levels of respect and decent I don't see any problem calling them out. If I were one of the people in the pictures I wouldn't care either. I know for a fact that I have a body shape that doesn't like keeping my pants up (tighten the belt to the point of constipation and the still drop in the back), but it's still my responsibility to present myself in a way that doesn't break social norms. If you catch me showing ass, chewing with my mouth open, acting like fool while out drinking, or anything other instance of anti-social behavior that's on me.
2) AFAIK there's no prior case like this and it's hardly a clear cut violation...
Actually, there IS a prior case and that offender was sentenced an 18 month suspension as well.
can we please stop saying there isn't a prior case when it's been said, MULTIPLE TIMES that there has been?
And BTW, Helene herself said that Wizards went to the Judge Community for a judgement, WotC simply agreed with it, stop blaming WotC and blame the judge community if you feel so much like white-knighting this guy, he took and used photographs of other people without their explicit and written permission, he is not employed by the event staff, therefore he had no right to do this.
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"It's about requiring a basic level of respect and decency." - Exactly! And if people are not showing basic levels of respect and decent I don't see any problem calling them out. If I were one of the people in the pictures I wouldn't care either. I know for a fact that I have a body shape that doesn't like keeping my pants up (tighten the belt to the point of constipation and the still drop in the back), but it's still my responsibility to present myself in a way that doesn't break social norms. If you catch me showing ass, chewing with my mouth open, acting like fool while out drinking, or anything other instance of anti-social behavior that's on me.
Fine, call them out on it if you like, don't post a picture of it on Reddit.
"It's about requiring a basic level of respect and decency." - Exactly! And if people are not showing basic levels of respect and decent I don't see any problem calling them out. If I were one of the people in the pictures I wouldn't care either. I know for a fact that I have a body shape that doesn't like keeping my pants up (tighten the belt to the point of constipation and the still drop in the back), but it's still my responsibility to present myself in a way that doesn't break social norms. If you catch me showing ass, chewing with my mouth open, acting like fool while out drinking, or anything other instance of anti-social behavior that's on me.
I agree with that, but to think that someone has the right to take photos of someone else without permission, especially in a poor position and in poor taste sets up society for no privacy. We already have the problem since many people realize that many satellites in space can pinpoint what anyone is doing at any time and it is available to the government.
The people messed up. Maybe they do it quite often. They still don't have the right to be photographed without permission. Please realize that I was originally on the side of the people here that thought it was not a big deal. Yes, I know that it was not "private" because 4300 people saw it, but we definitely don't need 430074289523969 people to see it.
BTW, do you believe me if I say that any of the people whose picture was there could SUE for defamation of character? I'm not just saying that they could sue because anyone can file a lawsuit, but I mean stand a pretty good chance of winning.
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BTW, do you believe me if I say that any of the people whose picture was there could SUE for defamation of character? I'm not just saying that they could sue because anyone can file a lawsuit, but I mean stand a pretty good chance of winning.
I don't believe you because there were no false statements made and that's a requirement for defamation.
2) AFAIK there's no prior case like this and it's hardly a clear cut violation...
Actually, there IS a prior case and that offender was sentenced an 18 month suspension as well.
can we please stop saying there isn't a prior case when it's been said, MULTIPLE TIMES that there has been?
And BTW, Helene herself said that Wizards went to the Judge Community for a judgement, WotC simply agreed with it, stop blaming WotC and blame the judge community if you feel so much like white-knighting this guy, he took and used photographs of other people without their explicit and written permission, he is not employed by the event staff, therefore he had no right to do this.
Hence the AFAIK, where is this prior case btw?
Another person went to a GP or PTQ or something, took photographs of players, and then posted them online with disparaging comments. He received an 18 month suspension.
I'm not familiar with the situation as others here may be, this thread is the first time I'd heard about it.
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udges are perfectly able to use their discretion when determining if someone's dress, or manner is disruptive to the tournament.
As with most things, players get informed that they are disruptive as the need arises, and are asked to remedy the problem. Ignoring such requests can, and often does result in penalties.
Common examples of these powers in use are: asking a player to not use explicit playmats, or sleeves, asking a player to cover up offensive tattoos, asking a player to remove or change clothing, and so on.
explained like this the conditions are agreeable.
And to the mods, coul you close this tread? it doesn't srve a purpose anymore
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From Supernatural:
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
I find someone that shows this kind of accidental situation, lets try to describe possible actions to be taken:
1) Do nothing, i personally don't care, everyone has their own right of how to dress up and show whatever part of his body they want to.
2) I feel uncomfortable with this situation, i respectfully approach the person and makes him notice of the situation and ask gently to fix it.
3) Take a photo of this person with a humorous remark and post it on internet on a space that its sure it will be laughed at, for no special reason.
Are we all just gonna ignore that he simply took those pictures to get his E-weiner stroked by the Reddit community, knowing full well that Magic players (In the same vein as D&D players, among others) make for easy laughing stock? THAT is the core reason of why he got banned. He ridiculed folks JUST to get some imaginary thumbs up from folks who enjoy having a laugh at the expense of unaware people. He did so on WOTC's 'grounds', discrediting the game and possibly deterring further influx of players in the process.
I'd say that IS malicious intent.
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You can argue about the severity of his punishment, but thats subjective and pointless.
You can try to defend his intentions, but since we dont have a mind reader, that discussion is also pretty subjective and pointless. Honestly, given where and how he posted it, the choice is either incredibly ignorant or malicious.
Regardless of his intentions, the actions he took were highly inappropriate and he should have known better.
That we even need to discuss that is somewhat disturbing. Some people have been spending way too much time on the internet.
In what real place would taking pictures of random people in embarrassing positions and then taping them up all over town not be considered highly inappropriate? Being on Reddit does not magically absolve you of all consequences. Just because people can generally get away with hateful behavior on the internet does not make it generally acceptable.
You can attack the people in the pictures all you like, but that doesnt change the reality. A picture captures a single instant in time. He searched a room full of people, managed to catch a handful of opportune pictures and then presented those pictures as representative. As if any of those people were just walking around all day with their pants half-way down.
It was childish and inappropriate. You want to talk about the community having a problem? How about the level of man-boyishness required to believe this was remotely acceptable behavior?
You can argue about the severity of his punishment, but thats subjective and pointless.
You can try to defend his intentions, but since we dont have a mind reader, that discussion is also pretty subjective and pointless. Honestly, given where and how he posted it, the choice is either incredibly ignorant or malicious.
Regardless of his intentions, the actions he took were highly inappropriate and he should have known better.
That we even need to discuss that is somewhat disturbing. Some people have been spending way too much time on the internet.
In what real place would taking pictures of random people in embarrassing positions and then taping them up all over town not be considered highly inappropriate? Being on Reddit does not magically absolve you of all consequences. Just because people can generally get away with hateful behavior on the internet does not make it generally acceptable.
You can attack the people in the pictures all you like, but that doesnt change the reality. A picture captures a single instant in time. He searched a room full of people, managed to catch a handful of opportune pictures and then presented those pictures as representative. As if any of those people were just walking around all day with their pants half-way down.
It was childish and inappropriate. You want to talk about the community having a problem? How about the level of man-boyishness required to believe this was remotely acceptable behavior?
I think its more bothersome that inappropriate dress and poor hygiene are known issues at large magic events and Wizards of the Coast would rather sweep it under the rug then address the real issue.
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It is unfortunate for me that I have been banned, but I understand. I also understand why my actions were harmful to the community. However, I do believe that I helped start a dialogue about appearance and hygiene when attending events (and in general) that I believe has strengthened the community. That being said, I do not regret what I did. I will have a great 18 months, and I hope you do too. I really appreciate your approach. I have gotten a lot of pretty harsh messages (including multiple death threats) and I appreciate someone talking to me about this in a mature way.
Thr bolded part is a porr excuse for his actions, he saw the *****storm coming and said o.O I NEED TO FIND AN EXCUSE
also Mods close thi ******* tread it serves no purpose except trolling/flaming.
Please don't evade the censor.
Evasion removed, warning issued. ~parinoid
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
If WotC's official policy is that showing off your asscrack in a tournament is ok, but drawing attention to it is not (and is punishable by years of suspension), what exactly do you expect them to do to you?
WotC never indicated that this is their policy. You are reading too much into it.
It is unfortunate for me that I have been banned, but I understand. I also understand why my actions were harmful to the community. However, I do believe that I helped start a dialogue about appearance and hygiene when attending events (and in general) that I believe has strengthened the community. That being said, I do not regret what I did. I will have a great 18 months, and I hope you do too. I really appreciate your approach. I have gotten a lot of pretty harsh messages (including multiple death threats) and I appreciate someone talking to me about this in a mature way.
Good he doesn't mind the 18 months that much, but what is going on with those death threats? What the hell people?!?
That's absolutely disgusting to send death threats to the guy. I think this is a good example of things starting to get out of hand. All the media attention on this isn't helping matters much either.
Sentence has been passed, and he accepts it. No need to hunt this guy down and hound him.
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This guy did nothing bad except pointing out how unhygienic, self-neglecting and generally taste-lacking some people can be. Gods, if you are overweight, dress yourself in such a way that you won't show your ass crack. 18 months for this?
Man, these are the moments that I am glad that I am living in Europe, not in USA with their overcorectness...
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Also the to the peoplep ranting, what would you say if you were one of the persons who got photographed?
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
with R i'll burn you and with B youll'be maimed
Magic judges have similar powers, they just a aren't exercised to any appreciable degree. Maybe it'll be a more common occurrence now?
I wish some people had more self-consciousness or self-respect.
Sure, who decides what's appropiate or not?, are the player informed of this before? if someone is kicked out and wants to be reimburse?
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
with R i'll burn you and with B youll'be maimed
Judges are perfectly able to use their discretion when determining if someone's dress, or manner is disruptive to the tournament.
As with most things, players get informed that they are disruptive as the need arises, and are asked to remedy the problem. Ignoring such requests can, and often does result in penalties.
Common examples of these powers in use are: asking a player to not use explicit playmats, or sleeves, asking a player to cover up offensive tattoos, asking a player to remove or change clothing, and so on.
Welp. I disagree completely. This isn't about validation and it isn't about a collective group hug. It's about requiring a basic level of respect and decency.
Really, I don't know what else I can say at this point. I probably would have gone with something less than an 18-month ban, but to say that what this guy did was anywhere within a mile of okay blows my mind. Clearly we see it differently.
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Actually, there IS a prior case and that offender was sentenced an 18 month suspension as well.
can we please stop saying there isn't a prior case when it's been said, MULTIPLE TIMES that there has been?
And BTW, Helene herself said that Wizards went to the Judge Community for a judgement, WotC simply agreed with it, stop blaming WotC and blame the judge community if you feel so much like white-knighting this guy, he took and used photographs of other people without their explicit and written permission, he is not employed by the event staff, therefore he had no right to do this.
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Fine, call them out on it if you like, don't post a picture of it on Reddit.
I agree with that, but to think that someone has the right to take photos of someone else without permission, especially in a poor position and in poor taste sets up society for no privacy. We already have the problem since many people realize that many satellites in space can pinpoint what anyone is doing at any time and it is available to the government.
The people messed up. Maybe they do it quite often. They still don't have the right to be photographed without permission. Please realize that I was originally on the side of the people here that thought it was not a big deal. Yes, I know that it was not "private" because 4300 people saw it, but we definitely don't need 430074289523969 people to see it.
BTW, do you believe me if I say that any of the people whose picture was there could SUE for defamation of character? I'm not just saying that they could sue because anyone can file a lawsuit, but I mean stand a pretty good chance of winning.
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Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
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Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I'd pull my ******* pants up.
I don't believe you because there were no false statements made and that's a requirement for defamation.
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Another person went to a GP or PTQ or something, took photographs of players, and then posted them online with disparaging comments. He received an 18 month suspension.
I'm not familiar with the situation as others here may be, this thread is the first time I'd heard about it.
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explained like this the conditions are agreeable.
And to the mods, coul you close this tread? it doesn't srve a purpose anymore
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
with R i'll burn you and with B youll'be maimed
1) Do nothing, i personally don't care, everyone has their own right of how to dress up and show whatever part of his body they want to.
2) I feel uncomfortable with this situation, i respectfully approach the person and makes him notice of the situation and ask gently to fix it.
3) Take a photo of this person with a humorous remark and post it on internet on a space that its sure it will be laughed at, for no special reason.
What would you pick?
I'd say that IS malicious intent.
You can try to defend his intentions, but since we dont have a mind reader, that discussion is also pretty subjective and pointless. Honestly, given where and how he posted it, the choice is either incredibly ignorant or malicious.
Regardless of his intentions, the actions he took were highly inappropriate and he should have known better.
That we even need to discuss that is somewhat disturbing. Some people have been spending way too much time on the internet.
In what real place would taking pictures of random people in embarrassing positions and then taping them up all over town not be considered highly inappropriate? Being on Reddit does not magically absolve you of all consequences. Just because people can generally get away with hateful behavior on the internet does not make it generally acceptable.
You can attack the people in the pictures all you like, but that doesnt change the reality. A picture captures a single instant in time. He searched a room full of people, managed to catch a handful of opportune pictures and then presented those pictures as representative. As if any of those people were just walking around all day with their pants half-way down.
It was childish and inappropriate. You want to talk about the community having a problem? How about the level of man-boyishness required to believe this was remotely acceptable behavior?
I think its more bothersome that inappropriate dress and poor hygiene are known issues at large magic events and Wizards of the Coast would rather sweep it under the rug then address the real issue.
Thr bolded part is a porr excuse for his actions, he saw the *****storm coming and said o.O I NEED TO FIND AN EXCUSE
also Mods close thi ******* tread it serves no purpose except trolling/flaming.
Please don't evade the censor.
Evasion removed, warning issued. ~parinoid
Infraction for editing a moderated post -Rax
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
with R i'll burn you and with B youll'be maimed
That's absolutely disgusting to send death threats to the guy. I think this is a good example of things starting to get out of hand. All the media attention on this isn't helping matters much either.
Sentence has been passed, and he accepts it. No need to hunt this guy down and hound him.
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