I'll admit I'm not the best sealed or limited player...largely cause I just like all constructed play more- so I play more constructed....if there was only Limited and Sealed I'd likely play more of it...
But My son and I were just going thru the GP schedule looking for GP's either close by or perhaps a cool location we might be able to make an adventure out of....holy cow nearly all on them are Limited or Sealed GP's....I mean yeah there are some Std/Mod (like 8 std and 3 Mod) and 1 or 2 Legacy GP...but 85% Limited.(world wide).. I almost feel like slept thru class and missed the assignment...
Honestly- is Limited that popular? or is it just Pushed that hard by Wotc?...too sell more packs? Constructed doesn't sell? Or has it always been this way I just never noticed or paid attention?
Limited is a very even ground in which the amount of money players drop on a deck has no influence on their deck in this format. I could play a $1000+ Jund deck in Modern and do well because I play an expensive deck, and be awful at limited because I'm not used to playing without paid advantages.
Limited is a very different, even ground that requires a good knowledge of the cardpool and different 'whats good and whats not'.
Should also mention you should be grateful you have a GP to go to etc
Looking at the GP list, it looks like over half of the GPs in the 2014 schedule are Constructed events. I think that WotC aims for about half Constructed and half Limited.
Limited is a very even ground in which the amount of money players drop on a deck has no influence on their deck in this format. I could play a $1000+ Jund deck in Modern and do well because I play an expensive deck, and be awful at limited because I'm not used to playing without paid advantages.
Limited is a very different, even ground that requires a good knowledge of the cardpool and different 'whats good and whats not'.
Should also mention you should be grateful you have a GP to go to etc
Thanks for the explanation on how limited works;) Learn more everyday...
The reason I started this thread was due to my own surprise as to how many and seaming how popular Limited is on the GP circuit....as in contrast to the many shops I frequent the limited/sealed events (with exception to prereleases) are trumped 5 to 1 in attendance to Constructed play generally..so perhaps my area is unique to that?
Looking at the GP list, it looks like over half of the GPs in the 2014 schedule are Constructed events. I think that WotC aims for about half Constructed and half Limited.
Yeah, but it's just over by 1 event. 22 Sealed, 23 Constructed. Of those sealed events, besides the set used, they don't change much. For constructed, it varies between Standard, Legacy, Modern, and Block. That's a lot of different formats that offer a much more different experience, divided amongst 23 events out of the total 45.
Yeah, but it's just over by 1 event. 22 Sealed, 23 Constructed. Of those sealed events, besides the set used, they don't change much. For constructed, it varies between Standard, Legacy, Modern, and Block. That's a lot of different formats that offer a much more different experience, divided amongst 23 events out of the total 45.
Since there are (at least) four sets released each year, there are just as many different limited formats.
Since there are (at least) four sets released each year, there are just as many different limited formats.
That's kind of what I touched on, but for the most part the limited experience is typically the same form set to set. There obviously is a different meta for limited between RTR, RTR+GTC, RTR+GTC+DGM, M14, THS, THS+BNG, and so on and so forth, but in the end the experience is never much different than:
Sit down
Open packs
Make the best deck out of what you can
With Standard/block, while the sets rotate, the decks tend to stay relatively consistent, or do so once they pop into existence. The experience for that standard may vary, but for the most part it will be the same throughout. Obviously though the consistency of decks change dramatically week to week, and set to set.
With Modern/Legacy, the consistency of the meta and the decks within the format are very strong. New decks do pop into existence, and from time to time decks fall out of favor/popularity, but when you sit down for it, it doesn't change much. The pace and style of play is expected and different.
Limited's pace and style of play will vary on what you open, but the experience of opening packs and building a deck is not much different from set to set, just as it is with block, standard, modern, and legacy. There are variations that differ obviously with sets, but the overall experience is the same.
But I understand what you're saying and your point. You can't go BW extort anymore. You can't build soulshift. You can't play against Olivia Jund. You can't play WW rouge. Those formats that rotate offer diversity that comes and goes, so obviously we see more of them than constructed events. I just wish there were less limited events. I'm not saying to drastically cut down numbers, but I would like to see less than half of the events be limited. Maybe 1/3rd would have been better.
I don't have any solid evidence that it's the most popular or not, but I won't deny that it's definitely one of the easier formats to play, and generally the most rewarding to skilled limited players. Obviously it's in large numbers because you don't need a deck to play, you can just show up and play, so it's easier to go to these events if you're a player of any variety.
It's just, I personally don't liked sealed so I'm on the complaining side.
I personally don't like constructed, but I don't complain because there are plenty of both constructed and limited GPs (and I'm not an enormous fan of complaining in general)
These are events about skill and limited is far more skill intensive so I'm not sure why you're surprised there is a *small* leaning in the favor of limited events.
Let's just say there's a player base out there that don't play constructed and Limited can be played by anyone, even "retired" players - in fact, it's more attractive and likely to attract them back since it's a major open event.
So I think the very nature of Limited attracts more people.
So I think the very nature of Limited attracts more people.
It does. I don't like it, and I think it's pretty bland and much more luck based to the individual player, but "that's just like, my opinion, dude". I just think they could have more evenly satisfied players if they had replaced a few of those events with modern, standard, and heck, why not one more legacy while we're at it? Maybe cut 5-6 sealed events, add in 3 standard, 2 modern, 1 legacy... or 5 standard, 1 modern more realistically.
It does. I don't like it, and I think it's pretty bland and much more luck based to the individual player, but "that's just like, my opinion, dude". I just think they could have more evenly satisfied players if they had replaced a few of those events with modern, standard, and heck, why not one more legacy while we're at it? Maybe cut 5-6 sealed events, add in 3 standard, 2 modern, 1 legacy... or 5 standard, 1 modern more realistically.
All magic is "luck based" but if you think luck is the primary driver of limited then you aren't very familiar with the format. They've been doing this for awhile they probably know which events tend to draw the most/best players.
I generally prefer limited to constructed. I don't think either is more "skill intensive" or "luck based", and I don't think WotC pushes limited to sell more packs.
1) Getting the most people playing, regardless of format, sells the most packs. The actual product opened in events is probably trivial to Wizards. At a local level, it might matter to lgs bottom lines, but not to WotC.
2) Limited and constructed reward similar skills, but in different proportions. Deck building is less important in constructed because of net decking. Drafting and deck building in limited is always dynamic and challenging. However, although every player is on an even field before the event starts, what you open/get passed heavily affects your chances. Constructed is of course limited by cost, but otherwise, everyone has access to the same cards.
Constructed tends to have more diverse strategies represented and so doesn't get bogged down in creature battles. Limited has a more diverse number of playable cards and is more "fair". For me, limited feels more like Magic; it reminds me of playing at the kitchen table and I like the back and forth of the creature battles. I really like designing and curating my cube, designing wacky decks, and the exploration of Magic, but I feel like that's separate from the competitive part for me.
1) Getting the most people playing, regardless of format, sells the most packs. The actual product opened in events is probably trivial to Wizards. At a local level, it might matter to lgs bottom lines, but not to WotC.
I dunno. If 99% of the MTG population played only Legacy, and looked at each spoiler and saw 2-5 cards that looked Legacy playable, I bet WotC would sell a lot less packs, even if 10x total more people were playing MTG than now.
All magic is "luck based" but if you think luck is the primary driver of limited then you aren't very familiar with the format. They've been doing this for awhile they probably know which events tend to draw the most/best players.
I don't disagree that there is a lot more skill in limited/draft. It takes a lot of skill to see the best decks you can make with a card pool, AND THEN you still have to pilot it. But what I was referring to is the luck in opening the packs. I've played in my fair share of limited events only to open a poor pool. At least in constructed if I'm losing to bad luck, it's poor luck while playing the game, not while making my deck.
Now maybe I suck at building decks from a limited pool, but we can't really gauge that on the internet, and at least I know for certain that I can tell the difference between a busted pool and a ****ty pool.
Keep in mind that was also mostly a fluke. It was in a location with cheap air fair, cheap hotels, great attractions, and was a limited set that was basically the closest people have ever come to drafting sanctioned cube in paper form.
However, you could help your argument by citing that the majority of the most recently large events (those over say 1500 players) have been limited. There's no denying that for the accessibility, and flexibility, limited is more popular than most other formats. But I also find it the least entertaining to watch and participate in compared to constructed events.
I don't disagree that there is a lot more skill in limited/draft. It takes a lot of skill to see the best decks you can make with a card pool, AND THEN you still have to pilot it. But what I was referring to is the luck in opening the packs. I've played in my fair share of limited events only to open a poor pool. At least in constructed if I'm losing to bad luck, it's poor luck while playing the game, not while making my deck.
Now maybe I suck at building decks from a limited pool, but we can't really gauge that on the internet, and at least I know for certain that I can tell the difference between a busted pool and a ****ty pool.
Keep in mind that was also mostly a fluke. It was in a location with cheap air fair, cheap hotels, great attractions, and was a limited set that was basically the closest people have ever come to drafting sanctioned cube in paper form.
However, you could help your argument by citing that the majority of the most recently large events (those over say 1500 players) have been limited. There's no denying that for the accessibility, and flexibility, limited is more popular than most other formats. But I also find it the least entertaining to watch and participate in compared to constructed events.
Oh word, even the best player in the world can get ruined by a bad pool. There isn't really a perfect method for the GP tour. I kind of just wish each event had both Limited and Constructed events on different days so people could participate in both or either no matter where they live.
I kind of just wish each event had both Limited and Constructed events on different days so people could participate in both or either no matter where they live.
Well, they do kinda do that. If a GP is large enough, they break it into two events, where the top 7-2 in both events make it into day 2. Vegas was 4 GP's being run all at the same time on day one.
However, the problems with that are either the payout sucks, drawing people away, or the payout is doubled to account for the two-in-one event and it becomes a loss for WotC. Not to mention one event will cannibalize the other, if not each other.
Never the less, it would be interesting to see if they could do it. A limited GP run side-by-side a standard GP.
I'm not completely sure what the point of having two GPs at the same time at the same place would be. For those who don't love the GP format, there's always a lot of solid side events. Besides, there is probably so much overlap that it can't possibly be worth it. What I'm saying is that most players aren't Constructed only players or Limited only players, and certainly a vast majority of the local population would go anyway. So you wouldn't go from 2000 to 4000 players, you might go from 2000 in one event to one event with 1500 players and one with 1000 players. Of course, that's just my guess, but if we're talking about an increase of 25% or thereabout, I can't imagine that it could possibly be worth all the extra headache when it comes to space, organizing and equipment. Not to mention that it's really awkward for coverage - you can't focus on one event, and if you have multiple streams, you need an extra coverage booth w/crew and equipment, which is only competing with your own event. And of course, prize payout is also doubled.
While it could be interesting, I don't really see what's in it for WotC.
Honestly- is Limited that popular? or is it just Pushed that hard by Wotc?...too sell more packs? Constructed doesn't sell? Or has it always been this way I just never noticed or paid attention?
Seems like everyone in this thread would rather push their own personal commentary rather than respond to your actual question. I'll give it a shot.
Yes, limited is that popular with a portion of the player base. It's like any other format. Everyone has their favorites.
No, I do not believe Wizards pushes limited formats to sell packs, at least not anymore than they push Standard to do so. I say this because, while these large events will certainly sell a lot of packs for those events, I do not believe limited events make up the majority or even a significant share of FNMs, smaller tournaments, etc. So while you'll have several major events throughout the year involving limited, it's not as heavily played on a week-to-week basis as other events, and your casual players are where you're going to see the bulk of your yearly sales.
And finally, yes, it has been this way for a very long time, and I do not believe that you have noticed it until now. There are always a very large amount of limited GPs.
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But My son and I were just going thru the GP schedule looking for GP's either close by or perhaps a cool location we might be able to make an adventure out of....holy cow nearly all on them are Limited or Sealed GP's....I mean yeah there are some Std/Mod (like 8 std and 3 Mod) and 1 or 2 Legacy GP...but 85% Limited.(world wide).. I almost feel like slept thru class and missed the assignment...
Honestly- is Limited that popular? or is it just Pushed that hard by Wotc?...too sell more packs? Constructed doesn't sell? Or has it always been this way I just never noticed or paid attention?
Limited is a very even ground in which the amount of money players drop on a deck has no influence on their deck in this format. I could play a $1000+ Jund deck in Modern and do well because I play an expensive deck, and be awful at limited because I'm not used to playing without paid advantages.
Limited is a very different, even ground that requires a good knowledge of the cardpool and different 'whats good and whats not'.
Should also mention you should be grateful you have a GP to go to etc
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
Thanks for the explanation on how limited works;) Learn more everyday...
The reason I started this thread was due to my own surprise as to how many and seaming how popular Limited is on the GP circuit....as in contrast to the many shops I frequent the limited/sealed events (with exception to prereleases) are trumped 5 to 1 in attendance to Constructed play generally..so perhaps my area is unique to that?
Yeah, but it's just over by 1 event. 22 Sealed, 23 Constructed. Of those sealed events, besides the set used, they don't change much. For constructed, it varies between Standard, Legacy, Modern, and Block. That's a lot of different formats that offer a much more different experience, divided amongst 23 events out of the total 45.
Since there are (at least) four sets released each year, there are just as many different limited formats.
That's kind of what I touched on, but for the most part the limited experience is typically the same form set to set. There obviously is a different meta for limited between RTR, RTR+GTC, RTR+GTC+DGM, M14, THS, THS+BNG, and so on and so forth, but in the end the experience is never much different than:
With Standard/block, while the sets rotate, the decks tend to stay relatively consistent, or do so once they pop into existence. The experience for that standard may vary, but for the most part it will be the same throughout. Obviously though the consistency of decks change dramatically week to week, and set to set.
With Modern/Legacy, the consistency of the meta and the decks within the format are very strong. New decks do pop into existence, and from time to time decks fall out of favor/popularity, but when you sit down for it, it doesn't change much. The pace and style of play is expected and different.
Limited's pace and style of play will vary on what you open, but the experience of opening packs and building a deck is not much different from set to set, just as it is with block, standard, modern, and legacy. There are variations that differ obviously with sets, but the overall experience is the same.
But I understand what you're saying and your point. You can't go BW extort anymore. You can't build soulshift. You can't play against Olivia Jund. You can't play WW rouge. Those formats that rotate offer diversity that comes and goes, so obviously we see more of them than constructed events. I just wish there were less limited events. I'm not saying to drastically cut down numbers, but I would like to see less than half of the events be limited. Maybe 1/3rd would have been better.
Pushed hard to sell more packs.
Standard, incidentally, was also created to sell more packs.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I see nothing wrong with it.
Also, for the record, 21 of 46 is not 85%. It's 46%.
Well looks like they forgot about that with Born of the Gods.
The idea that I don't need to bring a deck beforehand is very appealing.
BRGProssh, Skyraider of KherBRG
BWRAlesha, Who Smiles at DeathBWR
BGVarolz, the Scar-StripedBG
I don't have any solid evidence that it's the most popular or not, but I won't deny that it's definitely one of the easier formats to play, and generally the most rewarding to skilled limited players. Obviously it's in large numbers because you don't need a deck to play, you can just show up and play, so it's easier to go to these events if you're a player of any variety.
It's just, I personally don't liked sealed so I'm on the complaining side.
47.8%* is close enough to "half" to call it "half" for the sake of complaining.
*It's 22 sealed events out of 46, not 21.
I just used the number provided in the OP. But yes, it looks like there are indeed 22.
So I think the very nature of Limited attracts more people.
It does. I don't like it, and I think it's pretty bland and much more luck based to the individual player, but "that's just like, my opinion, dude". I just think they could have more evenly satisfied players if they had replaced a few of those events with modern, standard, and heck, why not one more legacy while we're at it? Maybe cut 5-6 sealed events, add in 3 standard, 2 modern, 1 legacy... or 5 standard, 1 modern more realistically.
All magic is "luck based" but if you think luck is the primary driver of limited then you aren't very familiar with the format. They've been doing this for awhile they probably know which events tend to draw the most/best players.
1) Getting the most people playing, regardless of format, sells the most packs. The actual product opened in events is probably trivial to Wizards. At a local level, it might matter to lgs bottom lines, but not to WotC.
2) Limited and constructed reward similar skills, but in different proportions. Deck building is less important in constructed because of net decking. Drafting and deck building in limited is always dynamic and challenging. However, although every player is on an even field before the event starts, what you open/get passed heavily affects your chances. Constructed is of course limited by cost, but otherwise, everyone has access to the same cards.
Constructed tends to have more diverse strategies represented and so doesn't get bogged down in creature battles. Limited has a more diverse number of playable cards and is more "fair". For me, limited feels more like Magic; it reminds me of playing at the kitchen table and I like the back and forth of the creature battles. I really like designing and curating my cube, designing wacky decks, and the exploration of Magic, but I feel like that's separate from the competitive part for me.
I dunno. If 99% of the MTG population played only Legacy, and looked at each spoiler and saw 2-5 cards that looked Legacy playable, I bet WotC would sell a lot less packs, even if 10x total more people were playing MTG than now.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
I don't disagree that there is a lot more skill in limited/draft. It takes a lot of skill to see the best decks you can make with a card pool, AND THEN you still have to pilot it. But what I was referring to is the luck in opening the packs. I've played in my fair share of limited events only to open a poor pool. At least in constructed if I'm losing to bad luck, it's poor luck while playing the game, not while making my deck.
Now maybe I suck at building decks from a limited pool, but we can't really gauge that on the internet, and at least I know for certain that I can tell the difference between a busted pool and a ****ty pool.
Keep in mind that was also mostly a fluke. It was in a location with cheap air fair, cheap hotels, great attractions, and was a limited set that was basically the closest people have ever come to drafting sanctioned cube in paper form.
However, you could help your argument by citing that the majority of the most recently large events (those over say 1500 players) have been limited. There's no denying that for the accessibility, and flexibility, limited is more popular than most other formats. But I also find it the least entertaining to watch and participate in compared to constructed events.
Oh word, even the best player in the world can get ruined by a bad pool. There isn't really a perfect method for the GP tour. I kind of just wish each event had both Limited and Constructed events on different days so people could participate in both or either no matter where they live.
Well, they do kinda do that. If a GP is large enough, they break it into two events, where the top 7-2 in both events make it into day 2. Vegas was 4 GP's being run all at the same time on day one.
However, the problems with that are either the payout sucks, drawing people away, or the payout is doubled to account for the two-in-one event and it becomes a loss for WotC. Not to mention one event will cannibalize the other, if not each other.
Never the less, it would be interesting to see if they could do it. A limited GP run side-by-side a standard GP.
While it could be interesting, I don't really see what's in it for WotC.
Seems like everyone in this thread would rather push their own personal commentary rather than respond to your actual question. I'll give it a shot.
Yes, limited is that popular with a portion of the player base. It's like any other format. Everyone has their favorites.
No, I do not believe Wizards pushes limited formats to sell packs, at least not anymore than they push Standard to do so. I say this because, while these large events will certainly sell a lot of packs for those events, I do not believe limited events make up the majority or even a significant share of FNMs, smaller tournaments, etc. So while you'll have several major events throughout the year involving limited, it's not as heavily played on a week-to-week basis as other events, and your casual players are where you're going to see the bulk of your yearly sales.
And finally, yes, it has been this way for a very long time, and I do not believe that you have noticed it until now. There are always a very large amount of limited GPs.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator