SCG makes good business decisions. Unfortunately for us that increases the price of cards. People don't like paying more money for anything. Everyone knows gas prices are always going up yet they continue to complain about it. Humans are peculiar things. Glad I'm a mutant fish crab.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Would Dark Confidant still be good if he punched you in the face for 5 damage a turn?
Overpriced
Creators of artificial scarcity
The reason legacy is so expensive
Have terrible customer service
It's disgusting that you would even consider thinking of supporting them.
What a ridiculous post. If you think they are overpriced then go elsewhere. They are at the higher end of MTG prices but you don't have to buy from them.
They do not create scarcity. The supply of magic cards is dictated by what WoTC prints. If SCG went around destroying magic cards then they'd be creating scarcity - lol.
The reason legacy is so expensive is because the early sets had small print runs and the demand for old cards exceeds supply.
Their customer service is some of the best in the business - just go to the SCG thread in Marketplace and take a look at the feedback.
The reason card prices shoot up is that WOTC has created an artificial scarcity of certain cards, and then promotes formats(modern) that require those scarce cards.
I buy on ebay all the time, and get cards, on average, 25% to 33% cheaper than SCG, and that includes shipping.
It's foolish to blame SCG for unilaterally increasing the prices on cards. They cannot do this unless people will pay those prices. SCG is incredibly good at figuring out what people will pay, and then charging that.
It's equally foolish to claim that SCG's choice to peg a card's price does not have an effect on what everyone else charges. As was mentioned before, if SCG is buying cards for more than other people are selling them, it will not be long before it makes no sense to sell the card for less than SCG does.
So basically SCG is very smart about knowing how high they can raise a card's price and still move them, and once they do it, everyone else's prices are affected. There's nothing nefarious or illegal about this...
... but another way to put it is that SCG is involved in figuring out the maximum that Magic could cost, and then actively works to make it cost that much. This has caused a few problems:
(1) Lower income players resent SCG. Without them, and to a lesser degree without the arrogant speculator culture, cards would not rise to their maximum possible value as quickly as they do. That would give poorer players more time to get them before the market "corrects." These players resent SCG and speculators with a passion.
(2) Pushing cards to maximum value increases the temptation for counterfeiting. This is just a function of supply and demand, folks.
Overpriced
Creators of artificial scarcity
The reason legacy is so expensive
Have terrible customer service
It's disgusting that you would even consider thinking of supporting them.
This post is so awfully wrong it hurts. Lets go down point by point.
Overpriced
Okay, so they're more expensive then other stores. There is a good reason why, and its that they do much more than everyone else. They're one of the few independent online stores who run their own site, store location, provide articles and video content, and host a tournament all over the US almost every weekend. You can't match what TCG Low is and still do all of that.
Creators of artificial scarcity
They buy cards from vendors and relist them at a higher price because of anticipated demand. Literally every other store and speculator would do this if they could, and most independent stores do, but some how Star City is the "creator" of it. Ridiculous claim with no tangible proof.
The reason legacy is so expensive
Okay, sure. They are the reason Legacy is expensive. They are also the major reason Legacy is alive outside of small communities of it, with their weekly Legacy tournaments. Legacy sure as hell wasn't gonna live off of 1 GP a season from WotC.
Have terrible customer service
Multiple posts disagree with you here. My experiences also disagree with this. I bought two Chord of Callings a year ago exactly back when they were $10 each(before they jumped). UPS lost the package, and SCG refunded me entirely, and six months later, UPS dropped those Chords off, and SCG told me to keep them.
That is better service then any of the stores on TCG player, who mark HP NM, have fake stock, or don't ship until a week later.
Did you know you don't have to buy cards from Star City Games?
Did you know that the issue isn't merely buying/selling from them or not?
Heh.
Honestly, I find it hard to read through this thread and see that one reoccurring trend is pricing. SCG is not in a vacumn, their price setting - whether fair or not being subjective as hell - does affect others, so even if you don't buy from them they have some sort of impact.
My issue is when places just use SCG prices. Optimally, I'd like it better if places created high, medium, and low prices for a card based on an average between X top stores [average low based on the prices from X store's prices, average median price based on X store's prices, average high price based on X store's prices - to account in the diversity in prices] - which would allow the higher priced places to still factor into things, but would - since that higher price is part of an average - not let the price slide all the way towards that higher price unless the average from all those stores is about that high either way...... hope that made some sense, if not let me reclarify.
Did you know that the issue isn't merely buying/selling from them or not?
Heh.
Honestly, I find it hard to read through this thread and see that one reoccurring trend is pricing. SCG is not in a vacumn, their price setting - whether fair or not being subjective as hell - does affect others, so even if you don't buy from them they have some sort of impact.
My issue is when places just use SCG prices. Optimally, I'd like it better if places created high, medium, and low prices for a card based on an average between X top stores [average low based on the prices from X store's prices, average median price based on X store's prices, average high price based on X store's prices - to account in the diversity in prices] - which would allow the higher priced places to still factor into things, but would - since that higher price is part of an average - not let the price slide all the way towards that higher price unless the average from all those stores is about that high either way...... hope that made some sense, if not let me reclarify.
I sort of agree with you but your not making it very clear. Yes other people price based of SCG's prices, but
1) This is not SCG's fault
2) The problem is other stores leaching pricing rather than anything SCG is doing.
SCG prices reflects the demand they perceive for a card in the community and what they feel people will pay for it. If people don't buy it, then they lower the price until it does sell. Demand is created on a card by it suddenly being seen as the latest tech.
What a ridiculous post. If you think they are overpriced then go elsewhere. They are at the higher end of MTG prices but you don't have to buy from them.
They do not create scarcity. The supply of magic cards is dictated by what WoTC prints. If SCG went around destroying magic cards then they'd be creating scarcity - lol.
The reason legacy is so expensive is because the early sets had small print runs and the demand for old cards exceeds supply.
Their customer service is some of the best in the business - just go to the SCG thread in Marketplace and take a look at the feedback.
This post is so awfully wrong it hurts. Lets go down point by point.
Okay, so they're more expensive then other stores. There is a good reason why, and its that they do much more than everyone else. They're one of the few independent online stores who run their own site, store location, provide articles and video content, and host a tournament all over the US almost every weekend. You can't match what TCG Low is and still do all of that.
They buy cards from vendors and relist them at a higher price because of anticipated demand. Literally every other store and speculator would do this if they could, and most independent stores do, but some how Star City is the "creator" of it. Ridiculous claim with no tangible proof.
Okay, sure. They are the reason Legacy is expensive. They are also the major reason Legacy is alive outside of small communities of it, with their weekly Legacy tournaments. Legacy sure as hell wasn't gonna live off of 1 GP a season from WotC.
Multiple posts disagree with you here. My experiences also disagree with this. I bought two Chord of Callings a year ago exactly back when they were $10 each(before they jumped). UPS lost the package, and SCG refunded me entirely, and six months later, UPS dropped those Chords off, and SCG told me to keep them.
That is better service then any of the stores on TCG player, who mark HP NM, have fake stock, or don't ship until a week later.
"My experience is more experience than your experience because I like this company"
ok
This is hardly constructive. Spam infraction issued.
-Memnarch
At GP Vegas this last year, they went to every vendor and bought up all the Tarmogoyfs and then immediately relisted them for like $150 or more, can't remember the exact price. Essentially, they bought themselves into a local monopoly there. Also, one of their guys was going around trading cards and tried to shark me. Didn't appreciate that in the slightest.
They've supposedly invested in legacy which raised prices on a few cards, and people who didn't think to do that themselves aren't happy about it.
Their prices are on the high side, which annoys people who don't realize there are hundreds of other options.
They're the biggest vendor in the game right now, so they are easy to point fingers at.
Overall, the very few times I've purchased from them, everything was just fine. Their tournaments that I've attended have been well run, and had solid prize support. They host a lot of tournaments which promotes the game as a whole and creates opportunities for a lot of people. They have some useful articles on their site. Overall, the hate seems unwarranted, and I personally think they do a lot more good for the game than bad. I don't buy cards from them because the price isn't great, but I do subscribe to their site because the articles they sponsor are useful to me.
"My experience is more experience than your experience because I like this company"
ok
I don't work for them, I'm only telling people the truth of business and economics. Hell I hardly ever buy from SCG as they are often more expensive than other vendors. All I'm trying to do is set the record straight with facts rather than the knee jerk reactions on here.
As to experience - you have already been pointed at the thread in Marketplace that shows the majority of SCG customers are impressed with their service.
At GP Vegas this last year, they went to every vendor and bought up all the Tarmogoyfs and then immediately relisted them for like $150 or more, can't remember the exact price. Essentially, they bought themselves into a local monopoly there. Also, one of their guys was going around trading cards and tried to shark me. Didn't appreciate that in the slightest.
There is nothing illegal or dodgy about buying up all the available copies locally. A local monopoly is not a problem with the internet these days. If you wanted them there, then you could have bought them before SCG did.
If someone from SCG did something illegal in trying to buy something from you could you make it clearer what they did. If you think they were trading and offering you less than your cards were worth, then you have (and I assume you did) so no to the deal.
My main beef with SCG is the amount of self-promotion on their stream, but then again it's their stream and I'm watching it for free, so I can't really complain that much.
I understand that SCG is a business, so their purpose is to make money. And I also understand that the main purpose of all the articles on the site & all the SCG Opens and anything else they run is to sell cards (by creating hype about new cards, and about formats & provide a reason to obtain expensive cards) and buy cards from people for cheap (at the SCG Open events).
Them being as big as they are also causes them to affect the secondary market pretty significantly, but I think this is mostly a product of "being big". It is what it is.
I don't think SCG is evil and scary. Their self promotion and obvious hyping of new cards can be mildly annoying to me, and I prefer CardKingdom when it comes to online stores (I've never bought anything from SCG, and I honestly don't expect that I will), but I have to say that for all they've been criticized (or even hated) by some, they've also done a lot of good things for the community. Like, however sinister you may feel the reasons behind the SCG Open circuit are, it's a pretty awesome concept, and I envy you Americans for having these events all over the place. They also popularized video coverage of events (before them we only had the occasional GGslive coverage), and I think SCG is partly to thank for this being so good at GPs and PTs these days.
They're not Santa Claus, they're not the Boogeyman. They're just a business. Some positive impact on the game, some negative. All-in-all, I'd say I'm pretty neutral. I definitely don't hate them, but I don't buy from them either
"My experience is more experience than your experience because I like this company"
ok
"Obviously your experience with SCG is invalid because it was a good experience, but when I have some bad experience, its totally valid because the world revolves around me and how SCG is a bad company that you shouldn't ever buy cards from ever because they are bad for Magic. Why? Because I think and say so and if someone disagrees, its because they're a shill."
That's how you sound right now. Either post constructively or don't post. If you're trolling, congratulations, you got me.
So was Standard Oil. What's your point? The idea that an unregulated market always produces the best outcomes is a childish libertarian fantasy.
Standard oil would lose money to put other people out of business. Like they get oil for $5/ barrel and sell it to the public for $2/ barrel until the other businesses go under and then do whatever they want. What does SCG do to under cut your LGS? If anything, they are MORE expensive than everyone else out there. My LGS has tarmogoyfs and fetches that are less expensive that SCG. Your analogy is false. I bet SCG wishes they had the power some of you project on them.
The following factors make me dislike and distrust SCG:
-The incestuous relationship between SCG and WOTC, in terms of employment and transmission of information.
-How just about every LGS uses the inflated SCG price for singles.
-Evan Erwin (sp?) overhyping every **** card in a new set.
You know why I hate Star City Games? Because they print and distribute a whole bunch of ugly goofy Magic Player Tokens and only rarely print super cute ones like the Liz Nugent Squirrel, Penguin and Turtle.
I'm relatively new to MTG, and one of the things I've noticed here at MTGS is some pretty vocal enmity toward StarCityGames. Just today a moderator closed a thread with these parting words:
So I've built a Standard deck, am building a Modern deck, and I've needed a few tokens here and there. I've bought from a few different vendors, and settled on SCG for my future purchases because:
They ship cards protectively. It gives me confidence the cards I order will arrive in the condition they were shipped in.
The order will be fulfilled on-time.
The two times I've emailed them with questions, I've promptly received good responses.
There does seem to be a markup compared to prices found on TCGPlayer.com sellers. But the peace of mind I feel when I order from SCG makes up for it, I think.
I am not a tournament player (heck, I can't do better than 2-2 at FNM Standard!) and know very little about the history of SCG. And I'll say that at GP: DC I did sell some excess cards to them for cash and the buyer was a grumpy-pants. But Ialw do understand macroeconomics, and so far in my few months at MTGS, I haven't seen any persuasive claims that SCG is doing anything unethical that should give me pause when considering my next purchase.
So I guess I'm asking for my own education: why such enmity here?
Thanks and with regards,
Garp74
I order from channel fireball for the following reasons in order of importance.
1. they are my local game store and have been since i was a kid.
2. cards i order always come in better than expected condition. (ive taken to ordering heavily played because they usually come near mint anyways)(damaged usually means signed by the artist LOL)
3. from my understanding channelfirebal doesnt speculate like SCJ does. they are more on the (you approach us if you want to sell) attitude.
Their business model is built on buying a metric fton of boxes and ripping them open for singles, ive seen them do it. They still have revised booster boxes from when they came out. Thats how much they buy.
On the other hand, Starcity apparently buys up everyone on TCG when they know a price will go up. Some say this is just sound business, and from one standpoint, yes, it will increase their profit margin. It does 2 things which i find to be rather underhanded.
1. SCJ buys and then raises the price (sometimes rediculously so) in an effort to dictate market trends to other vendors and ultimately, in my eyes, ripping us all off.
2. By buying out all the 'lesser' vendors before they anticipate/force a price hike on a certain card, they are literally taking money from the little guys. Its kind of like a reverse Robin Hood.. They take from the less fortunate stores who have turned to selling on TCG to make proper quota and give back to themself.
The Opening Post of the other thread had a picture of a forum conversation from quietspeculation. It has a SCJ employee veritably raging about some of the little guys talking to eachother about how he had bought up everything from their stock and that the listings (for a certain card) had more than cut in half in less than an hour (presumably all from starcity)
Now I am going to go out on a limb here, because it is understnadable that one might want their business dealings to remain confidential. However, this employee threatened to stop doing business with these other dealers because they were having a closed conversation about his speculation with them on a CLOSED SUBSCRIPTION ONLY speculation website.
"dude he took money from me again i think"
"yeah, he got me too again."
When somebody tries to hide something, then its evident that they know what they are doing is wrong. If I know that the value of Mutavault is $30 and this kid at my LGS wants to trade it for, say vampire nocturnus ($5) for his vampires deck I would obviously tell him that hes not getting a fair trade and throw in much more value of cards.
But we have all seen that one guy at our local game store. Whenever a little kid or noob rips something worthwhile in a draft they take them to a secluded corner of the shop and have them look at their trade binder, often times ripping the poor kid off many times over. Some of these guys dont even play in the the drafts or tournaments, but are there specifically to vulture someone.
SCJ is essentially the card store version of this archetype. They hold all kinds of events where people play games and open packs and sit there offering to buy cards for half what they are worth.
There is nothing illegal or dodgy about buying up all the available copies locally. A local monopoly is not a problem with the internet these days. If you wanted them there, then you could have bought them before SCG did.
If someone from SCG did something illegal in trying to buy something from you could you make it clearer what they did. If you think they were trading and offering you less than your cards were worth, then you have (and I assume you did) so no to the deal.
It isn't illegal no, but it is pretty...ummm...crappy of them to put it mildly. Also, sharking anyone is wrong and the fact that he as a representative of SCG tried to shark me, puts the entire company in a bad light for me. If I have to buy from a store, I use TCG, channelfireball, or ebay. Never will I buy from SCG.
Also, I didn't want the Tarmogoyf's. I had no skin in that game yet from an outsiders perspective, I feel it was wrong of them to do.
You're dreaming if you think someone like CFB doesn't follow the market and adjust pricing accordingly.
You really hate SCG. We get it. You're even trying to dredge up your embarrassing post where you jumped to the wrong conclusion about supposed "insider info". If I were you, I'd try to forget that little post. It doesn't make you look good at all. You're slinging mud at a legit business with no cause. It's selfish and impolite at best.
I order from channel fireball for the following reasons in order of importance.
1. they are my local game store and have been since i was a kid.
2. cards i order always come in better than expected condition. (ive taken to ordering heavily played because they usually come near mint anyways)(damaged usually means signed by the artist LOL)
3. from my understanding channelfirebal doesnt speculate like SCJ does. they are more on the (you approach us if you want to sell) attitude.
Their business model is built on buying a metric fton of boxes and ripping them open for singles, ive seen them do it. They still have revised booster boxes from when they came out. Thats how much they buy.
On the other hand, Starcity apparently buys up everyone on TCG when they know a price will go up. Some say this is just sound business, and from one standpoint, yes, it will increase their profit margin. It does 2 things which i find to be rather underhanded.
1. SCJ buys and then raises the price (sometimes rediculously so) in an effort to dictate market trends to other vendors and ultimately, in my eyes, ripping us all off.
2. By buying out all the 'lesser' vendors before they anticipate/force a price hike on a certain card, they are literally taking money from the little guys. Its kind of like a reverse Robin Hood.. They take from the less fortunate stores who have turned to selling on TCG to make proper quota and give back to themself.
The Opening Post of the other thread had a picture of a forum conversation from quietspeculation. It has a SCJ employee veritably raging about some of the little guys talking to eachother about how he had bought up everything from their stock and that the listings (for a certain card) had more than cut in half in less than an hour (presumably all from starcity)
Now I am going to go out on a limb here, because it is understnadable that one might want their business dealings to remain confidential. However, this employee threatened to stop doing business with these other dealers because they were having a closed conversation about his speculation with them on a CLOSED SUBSCRIPTION ONLY speculation website.
"dude he took money from me again i think"
"yeah, he got me too again."
When somebody tries to hide something, then its evident that they know what they are doing is wrong. If I know that the value of Mutavault is $30 and this kid at my LGS wants to trade it for, say vampire nocturnus ($5) for his vampires deck I would obviously tell him that hes not getting a fair trade and throw in much more value of cards.
But we have all seen that one guy at our local game store. Whenever a little kid or noob rips something worthwhile in a draft they take them to a secluded corner of the shop and have them look at their trade binder, often times ripping the poor kid off many times over. Some of these guys dont even play in the the drafts or tournaments, but are there specifically to vulture someone.
SCJ is essentially the card store version of this archetype. They hold all kinds of events where people play games and open packs and sit there offering to buy cards for half what they are worth.
People that list cards on tcgplayer become a business in doing so.
I know I'd be pissed off if I were dealing with a business and without my consent they started sharing MY personal information (username, etc) with other people. It's unprofessional and Ben Bleiweiss is pretty vindicated in being pissed off that people he's conducting good-faith business with are being unprofessional.
Now, if someone was tracking ebay auctions and saw they same thing going on, that's different. If somewhat was using publicly available information to catch on a buying trend that Star City was doing, that's great information to share and that person has every reason to want to talk all about it on the internet.
But professionals and business owners should learn to keep their mouths shut. Yes, it's easy to be a hater, because you see things that they're doing and think they're "legal but not fair, and harming the game", but the users on Quiet Speculation (who were sellers on TCGplayer) that doxed him were out of line.
It isn't illegal no, but it is pretty...ummm...crappy of them to put it mildly. Also, sharking anyone is wrong and the fact that he as a representative of SCG tried to shark me, puts the entire company in a bad light for me. If I have to buy from a store, I use TCG, channelfireball, or ebay. Never will I buy from SCG.
Also, I didn't want the Tarmogoyf's. I had no skin in that game yet from an outsiders perspective, I feel it was wrong of them to do.
I don't usually buy from SCG (usually Channelfireball or the European CardMarket). I'm kind of trying to understand what you mean by sharking. SCG has a set buy price so if they offered you that and made it clear that was the case then that isn't really sharking. If they were pretending that this was the real going rate for the card then I'd agree with you that this is not an acceptable practice.
Overpriced
Creators of artificial scarcity
The reason legacy is so expensive
Have terrible customer service
It's disgusting that you would even consider thinking of supporting them.
What a ridiculous post. If you think they are overpriced then go elsewhere. They are at the higher end of MTG prices but you don't have to buy from them.
They do not create scarcity. The supply of magic cards is dictated by what WoTC prints. If SCG went around destroying magic cards then they'd be creating scarcity - lol.
The reason legacy is so expensive is because the early sets had small print runs and the demand for old cards exceeds supply.
Their customer service is some of the best in the business - just go to the SCG thread in Marketplace and take a look at the feedback.
I buy on ebay all the time, and get cards, on average, 25% to 33% cheaper than SCG, and that includes shipping.
It's equally foolish to claim that SCG's choice to peg a card's price does not have an effect on what everyone else charges. As was mentioned before, if SCG is buying cards for more than other people are selling them, it will not be long before it makes no sense to sell the card for less than SCG does.
So basically SCG is very smart about knowing how high they can raise a card's price and still move them, and once they do it, everyone else's prices are affected. There's nothing nefarious or illegal about this...
... but another way to put it is that SCG is involved in figuring out the maximum that Magic could cost, and then actively works to make it cost that much. This has caused a few problems:
(1) Lower income players resent SCG. Without them, and to a lesser degree without the arrogant speculator culture, cards would not rise to their maximum possible value as quickly as they do. That would give poorer players more time to get them before the market "corrects." These players resent SCG and speculators with a passion.
(2) Pushing cards to maximum value increases the temptation for counterfeiting. This is just a function of supply and demand, folks.
This post is so awfully wrong it hurts. Lets go down point by point.
Okay, so they're more expensive then other stores. There is a good reason why, and its that they do much more than everyone else. They're one of the few independent online stores who run their own site, store location, provide articles and video content, and host a tournament all over the US almost every weekend. You can't match what TCG Low is and still do all of that.
They buy cards from vendors and relist them at a higher price because of anticipated demand. Literally every other store and speculator would do this if they could, and most independent stores do, but some how Star City is the "creator" of it. Ridiculous claim with no tangible proof.
Okay, sure. They are the reason Legacy is expensive. They are also the major reason Legacy is alive outside of small communities of it, with their weekly Legacy tournaments. Legacy sure as hell wasn't gonna live off of 1 GP a season from WotC.
Multiple posts disagree with you here. My experiences also disagree with this. I bought two Chord of Callings a year ago exactly back when they were $10 each(before they jumped). UPS lost the package, and SCG refunded me entirely, and six months later, UPS dropped those Chords off, and SCG told me to keep them.
That is better service then any of the stores on TCG player, who mark HP NM, have fake stock, or don't ship until a week later.
Did you know that the issue isn't merely buying/selling from them or not?
Heh.
Honestly, I find it hard to read through this thread and see that one reoccurring trend is pricing. SCG is not in a vacumn, their price setting - whether fair or not being subjective as hell - does affect others, so even if you don't buy from them they have some sort of impact.
My issue is when places just use SCG prices. Optimally, I'd like it better if places created high, medium, and low prices for a card based on an average between X top stores [average low based on the prices from X store's prices, average median price based on X store's prices, average high price based on X store's prices - to account in the diversity in prices] - which would allow the higher priced places to still factor into things, but would - since that higher price is part of an average - not let the price slide all the way towards that higher price unless the average from all those stores is about that high either way...... hope that made some sense, if not let me reclarify.
I sort of agree with you but your not making it very clear. Yes other people price based of SCG's prices, but
1) This is not SCG's fault
2) The problem is other stores leaching pricing rather than anything SCG is doing.
SCG prices reflects the demand they perceive for a card in the community and what they feel people will pay for it. If people don't buy it, then they lower the price until it does sell. Demand is created on a card by it suddenly being seen as the latest tech.
You should go collect your paycheque now
"My experience is more experience than your experience because I like this company"
ok
This is hardly constructive. Spam infraction issued.
-Memnarch
Their prices are on the high side, which annoys people who don't realize there are hundreds of other options.
They're the biggest vendor in the game right now, so they are easy to point fingers at.
Overall, the very few times I've purchased from them, everything was just fine. Their tournaments that I've attended have been well run, and had solid prize support. They host a lot of tournaments which promotes the game as a whole and creates opportunities for a lot of people. They have some useful articles on their site. Overall, the hate seems unwarranted, and I personally think they do a lot more good for the game than bad. I don't buy cards from them because the price isn't great, but I do subscribe to their site because the articles they sponsor are useful to me.
I don't work for them, I'm only telling people the truth of business and economics. Hell I hardly ever buy from SCG as they are often more expensive than other vendors. All I'm trying to do is set the record straight with facts rather than the knee jerk reactions on here.
As to experience - you have already been pointed at the thread in Marketplace that shows the majority of SCG customers are impressed with their service.
There is nothing illegal or dodgy about buying up all the available copies locally. A local monopoly is not a problem with the internet these days. If you wanted them there, then you could have bought them before SCG did.
If someone from SCG did something illegal in trying to buy something from you could you make it clearer what they did. If you think they were trading and offering you less than your cards were worth, then you have (and I assume you did) so no to the deal.
I understand that SCG is a business, so their purpose is to make money. And I also understand that the main purpose of all the articles on the site & all the SCG Opens and anything else they run is to sell cards (by creating hype about new cards, and about formats & provide a reason to obtain expensive cards) and buy cards from people for cheap (at the SCG Open events).
Them being as big as they are also causes them to affect the secondary market pretty significantly, but I think this is mostly a product of "being big". It is what it is.
I don't think SCG is evil and scary. Their self promotion and obvious hyping of new cards can be mildly annoying to me, and I prefer CardKingdom when it comes to online stores (I've never bought anything from SCG, and I honestly don't expect that I will), but I have to say that for all they've been criticized (or even hated) by some, they've also done a lot of good things for the community. Like, however sinister you may feel the reasons behind the SCG Open circuit are, it's a pretty awesome concept, and I envy you Americans for having these events all over the place. They also popularized video coverage of events (before them we only had the occasional GGslive coverage), and I think SCG is partly to thank for this being so good at GPs and PTs these days.
They're not Santa Claus, they're not the Boogeyman. They're just a business. Some positive impact on the game, some negative. All-in-all, I'd say I'm pretty neutral. I definitely don't hate them, but I don't buy from them either
Shrug.
"Obviously your experience with SCG is invalid because it was a good experience, but when I have some bad experience, its totally valid because the world revolves around me and how SCG is a bad company that you shouldn't ever buy cards from ever because they are bad for Magic. Why? Because I think and say so and if someone disagrees, its because they're a shill."
That's how you sound right now. Either post constructively or don't post. If you're trolling, congratulations, you got me.
Standard oil would lose money to put other people out of business. Like they get oil for $5/ barrel and sell it to the public for $2/ barrel until the other businesses go under and then do whatever they want. What does SCG do to under cut your LGS? If anything, they are MORE expensive than everyone else out there. My LGS has tarmogoyfs and fetches that are less expensive that SCG. Your analogy is false. I bet SCG wishes they had the power some of you project on them.
And some of you need to google random walk.
Troll infraction -Rax
-The incestuous relationship between SCG and WOTC, in terms of employment and transmission of information.
-How just about every LGS uses the inflated SCG price for singles.
-Evan Erwin (sp?) overhyping every **** card in a new set.
Jerks. Make with the whimsy already.
I order from channel fireball for the following reasons in order of importance.
1. they are my local game store and have been since i was a kid.
2. cards i order always come in better than expected condition. (ive taken to ordering heavily played because they usually come near mint anyways)(damaged usually means signed by the artist LOL)
3. from my understanding channelfirebal doesnt speculate like SCJ does. they are more on the (you approach us if you want to sell) attitude.
Their business model is built on buying a metric fton of boxes and ripping them open for singles, ive seen them do it. They still have revised booster boxes from when they came out. Thats how much they buy.
On the other hand, Starcity apparently buys up everyone on TCG when they know a price will go up. Some say this is just sound business, and from one standpoint, yes, it will increase their profit margin. It does 2 things which i find to be rather underhanded.
1. SCJ buys and then raises the price (sometimes rediculously so) in an effort to dictate market trends to other vendors and ultimately, in my eyes, ripping us all off.
2. By buying out all the 'lesser' vendors before they anticipate/force a price hike on a certain card, they are literally taking money from the little guys. Its kind of like a reverse Robin Hood.. They take from the less fortunate stores who have turned to selling on TCG to make proper quota and give back to themself.
The Opening Post of the other thread had a picture of a forum conversation from quietspeculation. It has a SCJ employee veritably raging about some of the little guys talking to eachother about how he had bought up everything from their stock and that the listings (for a certain card) had more than cut in half in less than an hour (presumably all from starcity)
Now I am going to go out on a limb here, because it is understnadable that one might want their business dealings to remain confidential. However, this employee threatened to stop doing business with these other dealers because they were having a closed conversation about his speculation with them on a CLOSED SUBSCRIPTION ONLY speculation website.
"dude he took money from me again i think"
"yeah, he got me too again."
When somebody tries to hide something, then its evident that they know what they are doing is wrong. If I know that the value of Mutavault is $30 and this kid at my LGS wants to trade it for, say vampire nocturnus ($5) for his vampires deck I would obviously tell him that hes not getting a fair trade and throw in much more value of cards.
But we have all seen that one guy at our local game store. Whenever a little kid or noob rips something worthwhile in a draft they take them to a secluded corner of the shop and have them look at their trade binder, often times ripping the poor kid off many times over. Some of these guys dont even play in the the drafts or tournaments, but are there specifically to vulture someone.
SCJ is essentially the card store version of this archetype. They hold all kinds of events where people play games and open packs and sit there offering to buy cards for half what they are worth.
Mimeoplasm, reanimator
Phelddagrif, superfriend/hugs
Edric, counter-target-player
Child of alara, Gods/Lands-Control
Titania, Timmy-combo
-Tiny Leaders-
Geist <under construction>
-Standard-
Esper Control
It isn't illegal no, but it is pretty...ummm...crappy of them to put it mildly. Also, sharking anyone is wrong and the fact that he as a representative of SCG tried to shark me, puts the entire company in a bad light for me. If I have to buy from a store, I use TCG, channelfireball, or ebay. Never will I buy from SCG.
Also, I didn't want the Tarmogoyf's. I had no skin in that game yet from an outsiders perspective, I feel it was wrong of them to do.
You really hate SCG. We get it. You're even trying to dredge up your embarrassing post where you jumped to the wrong conclusion about supposed "insider info". If I were you, I'd try to forget that little post. It doesn't make you look good at all. You're slinging mud at a legit business with no cause. It's selfish and impolite at best.
I know I'd be pissed off if I were dealing with a business and without my consent they started sharing MY personal information (username, etc) with other people. It's unprofessional and Ben Bleiweiss is pretty vindicated in being pissed off that people he's conducting good-faith business with are being unprofessional.
Now, if someone was tracking ebay auctions and saw they same thing going on, that's different. If somewhat was using publicly available information to catch on a buying trend that Star City was doing, that's great information to share and that person has every reason to want to talk all about it on the internet.
But professionals and business owners should learn to keep their mouths shut. Yes, it's easy to be a hater, because you see things that they're doing and think they're "legal but not fair, and harming the game", but the users on Quiet Speculation (who were sellers on TCGplayer) that doxed him were out of line.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
I don't usually buy from SCG (usually Channelfireball or the European CardMarket). I'm kind of trying to understand what you mean by sharking. SCG has a set buy price so if they offered you that and made it clear that was the case then that isn't really sharking. If they were pretending that this was the real going rate for the card then I'd agree with you that this is not an acceptable practice.