Warning: this is a repost of yesterdays thread. The discussion will stay focused on the card itself, not the trade dispute. Anything looking like it belongs in the Bad Trader Report forum or not on the forums at all will be reported to the mods and removed.
I have a strange card in my possession and I am certain is fake. Please read the description and discuss if there is any explanation to why it could be genuine, give us similar stories, or come with suggestions to why it is fake.
Card description:
It is a foil Karn Liberated. It looks and feels like a normal Magic card and the foiling looks normal. The only problem I have noticed is a 3-4mm non-foil padding all the way around the card. It is on the other hand very noticeable, so no need for special light or a lens. I do not have a lens available, but as far as I can tell everything but the padding looks normal. I have three other foil Karns to compare with, and they all look the same and non like the strange card.
It is a misprint: Unknown. Neither I or the seller believe this (not actual opinion, but selling it as Near-Mint to a normal price without any comment suggests this), but if you have any other experience please share it.
MTGO redeemed sets are foiled different: False. WotC stats this is not the case: "The cards that are found in sets redeemed in the Magic Online store are manufactured in the same way as those found in boosters or preconstructed decks."
The printing process differ around the world Probably false. Cards printed in different places to have some color differences and small differences in glossing (my experience with cards marked Belgium vs. U.S.), but I have never seen any difference in the actual foiling process and a so big difference should have made it publicly known that foils from WotC can look like this.
I would lean toward fake. Foils that look like this have not been seen so far; I could crack my last Innistrad foil redemption set to see if Garruk and Lili look like that, but I highly doubt it'd look like that.
WotC is somewhat handwaving the real truth about redemption sets: if the stock they set aside while printing the actual set runs out, reprints are done with whatever the current printing process is when they realize they need the reprints, even if the technology was different when the set in question was originally printed. I received a set of foil Worldwake that looked, felt & reacted to various tests as though they were Innistrad foils. This shouldn't be a problem for anyone who knows to look for it and knows how they do reprints, but what I can tell you is that I have never seen a legit foil walker where the black border looks any different than the inner-frame solid black areas, from any period in time. That is something that just does not look right.
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If the stock [WotC] set aside while printing the actual set runs out, reprints are done with whatever the current printing process is when they realize they need the reprints, even if the technology was different when the set in question was originally printed.
You're right, and I think they would give this answer (if allowed; the exact reprint policies for their MTGO redeem stock could be considered a trade secret) on a follow-up question.
I showed the card around at a local tournement yesterday, and all agreed the card was a fake. A few had some experience with fakes, and I got two theories on how it could be made.
The back, size, feel and blue line all suggests that it is an originale Magic card underneath. Either (1) someone made or brought "blanked" foils and used a high-quality printer to the card. The non-foil padding could be a resault of the "blanking" technic and/or some chemical used, or (2) it is a Karn Liberated someone did a really good self-foil on.
(2) doesn't sound realistic in my ears, but I guess it's possible.
Either way, it's a really good fake and something I would advice to look after when trading. Remember the angle and light need to be right, and while it is easy to see while holding the card without a sleeve it is hard to take a good picture off and therefore easy to hide on a trade picture.
The nonfoil border looks to me like a custom-printed sticker; while the dot patterns I see in that picture indicates the card was made with printing equipment very similar to what WotC has their printing companies use, the nonfoil border makes me think what we're likely looking at is an early prototype from someone like the Chinese printing companies that were making the nonfoil fakes.
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I just received a Karn with the exact same issue, from a reputable trader who claims to have pulled it from a factory sealed set. I compared it to the other foil walkers I have from recent sets and none of them have a similar border issue. Unfortunately I do not have another foil Karn to compare it to.
EDIT: I spoke with the gentleman from whom I received the Karn. He informed me that it WAS from an MTGO redeemed set. He had several of them, and proceeded to post this:
I have a strange card in my possession and I am certain is fake. Please read the description and discuss if there is any explanation to why it could be genuine, give us similar stories, or come with suggestions to why it is fake.
Card description:
It is a foil Karn Liberated. It looks and feels like a normal Magic card and the foiling looks normal. The only problem I have noticed is a 3-4mm non-foil padding all the way around the card. It is on the other hand very noticeable, so no need for special light or a lens. I do not have a lens available, but as far as I can tell everything but the padding looks normal. I have three other foil Karns to compare with, and they all look the same and non like the strange card.
Pictures:
[IMG]http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/116/213/635267298798999950.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/116/214/635267298800409929.jpg
Theories:
It is a misprint:
Unknown. Neither I or the seller believe this (not actual opinion, but selling it as Near-Mint to a normal price without any comment suggests this), but if you have any other experience please share it.
MTGO redeemed sets are foiled different:
False. WotC stats this is not the case: "The cards that are found in sets redeemed in the Magic Online store are manufactured in the same way as those found in boosters or preconstructed decks."True. This video shows a Karn Liberated getting pooled from a redeemed foil set.
The printing process differ around the world
Probably false. Cards printed in different places to have some color differences and small differences in glossing (my experience with cards marked Belgium vs. U.S.), but I have never seen any difference in the actual foiling process and a so big difference should have made it publicly known that foils from WotC can look like this.
Updated April 25, 2014.
WotC is somewhat handwaving the real truth about redemption sets: if the stock they set aside while printing the actual set runs out, reprints are done with whatever the current printing process is when they realize they need the reprints, even if the technology was different when the set in question was originally printed. I received a set of foil Worldwake that looked, felt & reacted to various tests as though they were Innistrad foils. This shouldn't be a problem for anyone who knows to look for it and knows how they do reprints, but what I can tell you is that I have never seen a legit foil walker where the black border looks any different than the inner-frame solid black areas, from any period in time. That is something that just does not look right.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
I showed the card around at a local tournement yesterday, and all agreed the card was a fake. A few had some experience with fakes, and I got two theories on how it could be made.
The back, size, feel and blue line all suggests that it is an originale Magic card underneath. Either (1) someone made or brought "blanked" foils and used a high-quality printer to the card. The non-foil padding could be a resault of the "blanking" technic and/or some chemical used, or (2) it is a Karn Liberated someone did a really good self-foil on.
(2) doesn't sound realistic in my ears, but I guess it's possible.
Either way, it's a really good fake and something I would advice to look after when trading. Remember the angle and light need to be right, and while it is easy to see while holding the card without a sleeve it is hard to take a good picture off and therefore easy to hide on a trade picture.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
EDIT: I spoke with the gentleman from whom I received the Karn. He informed me that it WAS from an MTGO redeemed set. He had several of them, and proceeded to post this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWHlteQrLD8
I believe the issue is resolved. The Karn is real, it has something to do with the MTGO redemption process.
Tiger
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Where exactly do you get these from bc a foil set of new phyrexia would be pretty sweet to have
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https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)