I have no desire to buy these cards but for the life of me I cannot figure out how to find the site that people have been talking about lol. My google fu is clearly weak.
I don't care if my Legacy and Modern staples plummet in value since I bought them to play Magic, not invest. But what you don't want is prices crashing to the point that stores can't make money anymore. No stores, no events for the most part.
Lower prices in cards means prizes get worse. So the competitive aspect of tournaments will actually decrease even though it will get more players interested in playing.
TL;DR I want my neighbor Joe, who can't afford a playset of dual lands to play. But I also want awesome 40 dual land tournaments with 6-8 rounds of swiss
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Chinese guy 1: Dude, this batch sucks. You didn't even get the damn font right. I thought I showed you how to do that? Chinese guy 2: Aw sorry, yeah I forgot that... I guess we will just put these in the back room.
[2 months later]
Chinese guy 1: Good job. These are much better, totally undetectable. Chinese guy 2: Thanks. Also I have an idea, why not just sell all those boxes of lower quality ones we have lying around? In bulk, on Alibaba, in plain sight? It will make us some extra pocket change, we don't take any of the risk for getting caught selling the inferior versions overseas as singles, and it will make everybody falsely think that they know how to spot fakes! Chinese guy 1: That's really clever, man. Do it. When you're done, here's an envelope of some current ones. mail them over to our friend Zhen in Arkansas so she can sell them on TCG. Chinese Guy 2: K.
I'm speaking completely hypothetically out of my ... here, but.
Assuming they could make good enough replicas, yeah I agree, they probably would not bulk sell them for 20-50 cents each and instead sell them as real individually. I'm ASSUMING this has been going on for a long time, just not in enough volume to effect prices much. The real thing is volume, even a print run of MM1 didn't effect mythic card prices, even making them go up, so it might take a LOT of this to go on before it impacts prices at all.
I'm speaking completely hypothetically out of my ... here, but.
Assuming they could make good enough replicas, yeah I agree, they probably would not bulk sell them for 20-50 cents each and instead sell them as real individually. I'm ASSUMING this has been going on for a long time, just not in enough volume to effect prices much. The real thing is volume, even a print run of MM1 didn't effect mythic card prices, even making them go up, so it might take a LOT of this to go on before it impacts prices at all.
The main impact of counterfeiting is not the increase in stock availability but the people's confidence in the authenticity of a product.
A few weeks back, a number of very well made counterfeit HK thousand dollar bills were found in Hong Kong (denominations of a thousand isn't very big in HK money, you can spend a hundred just taking a cab around the city). The number circulating is probably miniscule compared to real bills, but a lot of shops and restaurants stop accepting any thousand dollar bills just to be safe. That's the real impact of counterfeits. The secondary market won't collapse due to the influx of new cards but due to people not trading/buying just to be safe.
The main impact of counterfeiting is not the increase in stock availability but the people's confidence in the authenticity of a product.
A few weeks back, a number of very well made counterfeit HK thousand dollar bills were found in Hong Kong (denominations of a thousand isn't very big in HK money, you can spend a hundred just taking a cab around the city). The number circulating is probably miniscule compared to real bills, but a lot of shops and restaurants stop accepting any thousand dollar bills just to be safe. That's the real impact of counterfeits. The secondary market won't collapse due to the influx of new cards but due to people not trading/buying just to be safe.
There is a difference though... If you accept a fake paper bill and someone catches you when you try to use it you're out that bill.
While magic cards have a monetary and collectible value they also have a play value. There will be people that will be perfectly happy to buy these cards and use them as if they were real knowing that the likely-hood of getting caught is minuscule and if they do all they are out is their entry fee for that one event. Or even to use for Commander... who is going to deck check someone at a game of commander and check for fakes?
So it will lower confidence in the secondary market but in this case it can also increase supply a noticeable amount. Another interesting bit with this is it could sky rocket the value of cards that are less likely to be faked... for example foreign dual lands could increase in price dramatically.
Postal service isn't pony-based anymore. Presumably you would ship to anywhere that ordered at once.
While magic cards have a monetary and collectible value they also have a play value. There will be people that will be perfectly happy to buy these cards and use them as if they were real knowing that the likely-hood of getting caught is minuscule and if they do all they are out is their entry fee for that one event. Or even to use for Commander... who is going to deck check someone at a game of commander and check for fakes?
Yes. Also, on the part of the counterfeiters, printing government money fakes is a great way to get the Chinese secret service or whatever interested in you. Whereas printing magic cards gets some suits at a company in another country that can barely do anything to you interested in you. Dunno about you, but I'm a little bit more scared of the Chinese secret service. And I would be much more careful about my print volumes for money.
Plus, the volume of cash in a country is extraordinarily higher than the volume of magic cards, so it takes less to matter, on top of it being safer to print more.
Chinese guy 1: Dude, this batch sucks. You didn't even get the damn font right. I thought I showed you how to do that? Chinese guy 2: Aw sorry, yeah I forgot that... I guess we will just put these in the back room.
[2 months later]
Chinese guy 1: Good job. These are much better, totally undetectable. Chinese guy 2: Thanks. Also I have an idea, why not just sell all those boxes of lower quality ones we have lying around? In bulk, on Alibaba, in plain sight? It will make us some extra pocket change, we don't take any of the risk for getting caught selling the inferior versions overseas as singles, and it will make everybody falsely think that they know how to spot fakes! Chinese guy 1: That's really clever, man. Do it. When you're done, here's an envelope of some current ones. mail them over to our friend Zhen in Arkansas so she can sell them on TCG. Chinese Guy 2: K.
This, so much this. I had this exact same thought as well. I mean are we really to believe that they would go through all that trouble and print goyfs with the wrong font? Come on... they would have to be incredibly stupid or blind which I don't think anyone can truly believe that. This absolutely could be smoke and mirrors to make people feel safer.
Lower prices in cards means prizes get worse. So the competitive aspect of tournaments will actually decrease even though it will get more players interested in playing.
Not really. Stores can charge higher entrance fees and give out cash prizes, while still pocketing some profit.
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Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
Is this like changing $1.00 bills into $100.00 bills so everyone is rich?
If most commons and uncommons were competitive, instead of mostly being ****, rares and mythics would still be worth their collectible value plus their play value, but now everything would be worth $2-$10 instead of having only 1-4 staple cards in a set, making them worth $50+ and becoming attractive to forgers because you can't win without them, which means EVERYONE wants those cards.
Dragon's Maze should be considered a spat in the face of M:tG players world-wide.
I don't play Legacy, but I think the Reserved List whiners should wake up and smell the roses.
If you played legacy you would know that 99% of legacy players abhor the resserved list because it's killing their format. It is not a them vs. us of players, its a select few collectors, most probably stores (Yes, SCG, **** you we have no reason not to say it), fighting tooth and nail to keep their "investment" to the detriment of players and WotC.
A single reprinting of FoW could absolutely destroy it's value forever and piss off a lot of people.
Look at thoughtseize. Thoughtseize was worth the same as FoW before it was in Theros, and thoughtseize has a lot more demand than FoW does.
Not a single person, not even stores were mad when Thoughtseize was reprinted. In fact stores were happy about the Thoughtseize reprint because it moved way much more product than the rest of the set because it got Legacy, Commander and Modern players drafting Theros, which may not had happened if Thoughtseize hadn't been in the set.
I bet the same reaction would be found if Force of Will or Wasteland found their way into non-limited draftable product.
On the flip side, if the cards are not worth *anything*, no one will want to open packs as you are just throwing money away. Part of the draw of Magic is that you can open high-value cards and trade them for other high-value cards that could go up in value.
If opening a pack gave you a 3/32 chance of getting three commons worth a dolar, an uncommon worth $3 and a rare worth $8 it'd be a better investment than the current rough 1/80 of getting a chase rare while the rest of the set is worth cents.
Also, speculators are the cancer killing the free market, they ruin market research, they ruin real investment and they ruin consumer confidence. Most of them are the same stupid people who think they'll win the lottery one day (without even buying tickets, mind you) and they desserve no pandering to their greedy, destructive ways. The game and the LGS will survive longer with millions of college kids bulling ten times as many $2 commons for their decks than with hundreds of idiots buying $100 cards at the lowest they can, to re-sell later.
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Yes sir, I take fantasy art and character design commissions, PM me for rates.
I did some research on the company that is printing these fakes. They are not ONLY printing Magic cards. They are a huge printing company in China, with multiple product lines and several trademarks. I probably shouldn't post the company name here, but if you have the original link to the sales page you can find it.
What I infer from this, is that they DON'T CARE if the cards have imperfections. They care soley about overall profit, so what is the point of paying their design crew more money to make new, fixed card images while they have already sold out their stock (according to other forums)? If what they have is selling, why change it?
Dragon's Maze should be considered a spat in the face of M:tG players world-wide.
Seriously, Dragon's Maze and M14 are a gigantic raised middle finger to MTG players.
Both sets were only drafted/given as prizes/door packs for like two months, and contain nothing but garbage, worthless, unplayed cards except for 1-2 per set.
Seriously, DGM is Voice, Blood Baron or nothing. M14 is slightly better with Mutavault and a few planeswalkers but is otherwise also garbage. You can open an entire box of these sets and come away with $20 or less in value. I'm not one of those people that thinks a box should net you $200 in cards but you should get at least half or 3/4 of your money in value. Not with these sets. Flat out insulting.
I can't wait until some poor guy in a high stakes Magic tournament gets a Match Loss because of his keen-eyed, crafty, jerk of an opponent fishing for fake cards in his deck. The fakes are well made but not perfect.
I often hear people blame spectators for rising prices of mtg. But the more I think about it, the more I feel that it's the players, themselves, and the perceived value they attach to a legacy staple, that gave rise to this environment. Why is it that when one trades "up" to a legacy staple it's usually assumed that the person who has the staple wants more in other cards than the monetary value of their cards? Especially, considering it would take the same amount of money and time to sell x amount of standard staples as it would to sell legacy cards. This perception in every day trades helped to create the bubble just as much as the one guy who decides to sit on multiple playsets of a card.
Seriously, Dragon's Maze and M14 are a gigantic raised middle finger to MTG players.
Both sets were only drafted/given as prizes/door packs for like two months, and contain nothing but garbage, worthless, unplayed cards except for 1-2 per set.
Seriously, DGM is Voice, Blood Baron or nothing. M14 is slightly better with Mutavault and a few planeswalkers but is otherwise also garbage. You can open an entire box of these sets and come away with $20 or less in value. I'm not one of those people that thinks a box should net you $200 in cards but you should get at least half or 3/4 of your money in value. Not with these sets. Flat out insulting.
i would love to see the purchase history from this company, i bet scg is their best customer
Highly doubtful, one of the best things Star City has going for them is their reputation. The damage that would be done if such a thing was discovered far outweighs the relatively small amount of profit they would make reselling these fakes.
If you played legacy you would know that 99% of legacy players abhor the resserved list because it's killing their format. It is not a them vs. us of players, its a select few collectors, most probably stores (Yes, SCG, **** you we have no reason not to say it), fighting tooth and nail to keep their "investment" to the detriment of players and WotC.
Um, Star City Games was actually outspoken in their opposition to the Reserved List and attempted to convince Wizards of the Coast to get rid of it.
i would love to see the purchase history from this company, i bet scg is their best customer
Even if well known retailers are knowingly buying and selling fakes, they are most assuredly being careful about it. A friend of a friend of a friend's cousin's wife's next-door neighbor is probably buying them, not any employees.
Sounds like a false-flag to me. Why buy cheaper with the risk of a fake when you can buy overpriced 100% authentic cards from certain online retailers?
What I infer from this, is that they DON'T CARE if the cards have imperfections. They care soley about overall profit, so what is the point of paying their design crew more money to make new, fixed card images while they have already sold out their stock (according to other forums)? If what they have is selling, why change it?
Why change it?
Because if you get it perfect, you start making $50 a card instead of $0.05 a card...
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that what they just sold was a rough draft printing run that they just thought theyd get some penneis for instead of putting it in the trash.
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Lower prices in cards means prizes get worse. So the competitive aspect of tournaments will actually decrease even though it will get more players interested in playing.
TL;DR I want my neighbor Joe, who can't afford a playset of dual lands to play. But I also want awesome 40 dual land tournaments with 6-8 rounds of swiss
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
I'm speaking completely hypothetically out of my ... here, but.
Assuming they could make good enough replicas, yeah I agree, they probably would not bulk sell them for 20-50 cents each and instead sell them as real individually. I'm ASSUMING this has been going on for a long time, just not in enough volume to effect prices much. The real thing is volume, even a print run of MM1 didn't effect mythic card prices, even making them go up, so it might take a LOT of this to go on before it impacts prices at all.
The main impact of counterfeiting is not the increase in stock availability but the people's confidence in the authenticity of a product.
A few weeks back, a number of very well made counterfeit HK thousand dollar bills were found in Hong Kong (denominations of a thousand isn't very big in HK money, you can spend a hundred just taking a cab around the city). The number circulating is probably miniscule compared to real bills, but a lot of shops and restaurants stop accepting any thousand dollar bills just to be safe. That's the real impact of counterfeits. The secondary market won't collapse due to the influx of new cards but due to people not trading/buying just to be safe.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
There is a difference though... If you accept a fake paper bill and someone catches you when you try to use it you're out that bill.
While magic cards have a monetary and collectible value they also have a play value. There will be people that will be perfectly happy to buy these cards and use them as if they were real knowing that the likely-hood of getting caught is minuscule and if they do all they are out is their entry fee for that one event. Or even to use for Commander... who is going to deck check someone at a game of commander and check for fakes?
So it will lower confidence in the secondary market but in this case it can also increase supply a noticeable amount. Another interesting bit with this is it could sky rocket the value of cards that are less likely to be faked... for example foreign dual lands could increase in price dramatically.
Postal service isn't pony-based anymore. Presumably you would ship to anywhere that ordered at once.
Yes. Also, on the part of the counterfeiters, printing government money fakes is a great way to get the Chinese secret service or whatever interested in you. Whereas printing magic cards gets some suits at a company in another country that can barely do anything to you interested in you. Dunno about you, but I'm a little bit more scared of the Chinese secret service. And I would be much more careful about my print volumes for money.
Plus, the volume of cash in a country is extraordinarily higher than the volume of magic cards, so it takes less to matter, on top of it being safer to print more.
This, so much this. I had this exact same thought as well. I mean are we really to believe that they would go through all that trouble and print goyfs with the wrong font? Come on... they would have to be incredibly stupid or blind which I don't think anyone can truly believe that. This absolutely could be smoke and mirrors to make people feel safer.
Not really. Stores can charge higher entrance fees and give out cash prizes, while still pocketing some profit.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
North and South Carolina. Georgia as well allegedly. Also sellers of fakes spotted on Tennessee and North Carolina ebay accounts.
If most commons and uncommons were competitive, instead of mostly being ****, rares and mythics would still be worth their collectible value plus their play value, but now everything would be worth $2-$10 instead of having only 1-4 staple cards in a set, making them worth $50+ and becoming attractive to forgers because you can't win without them, which means EVERYONE wants those cards.
Dragon's Maze should be considered a spat in the face of M:tG players world-wide.
If you played legacy you would know that 99% of legacy players abhor the resserved list because it's killing their format. It is not a them vs. us of players, its a select few collectors, most probably stores (Yes, SCG, **** you we have no reason not to say it), fighting tooth and nail to keep their "investment" to the detriment of players and WotC.
Not a single person, not even stores were mad when Thoughtseize was reprinted. In fact stores were happy about the Thoughtseize reprint because it moved way much more product than the rest of the set because it got Legacy, Commander and Modern players drafting Theros, which may not had happened if Thoughtseize hadn't been in the set.
I bet the same reaction would be found if Force of Will or Wasteland found their way into non-limited draftable product.
If opening a pack gave you a 3/32 chance of getting three commons worth a dolar, an uncommon worth $3 and a rare worth $8 it'd be a better investment than the current rough 1/80 of getting a chase rare while the rest of the set is worth cents.
Also, speculators are the cancer killing the free market, they ruin market research, they ruin real investment and they ruin consumer confidence. Most of them are the same stupid people who think they'll win the lottery one day (without even buying tickets, mind you) and they desserve no pandering to their greedy, destructive ways. The game and the LGS will survive longer with millions of college kids bulling ten times as many $2 commons for their decks than with hundreds of idiots buying $100 cards at the lowest they can, to re-sell later.
What I infer from this, is that they DON'T CARE if the cards have imperfections. They care soley about overall profit, so what is the point of paying their design crew more money to make new, fixed card images while they have already sold out their stock (according to other forums)? If what they have is selling, why change it?
Seriously, Dragon's Maze and M14 are a gigantic raised middle finger to MTG players.
Both sets were only drafted/given as prizes/door packs for like two months, and contain nothing but garbage, worthless, unplayed cards except for 1-2 per set.
Seriously, DGM is Voice, Blood Baron or nothing. M14 is slightly better with Mutavault and a few planeswalkers but is otherwise also garbage. You can open an entire box of these sets and come away with $20 or less in value. I'm not one of those people that thinks a box should net you $200 in cards but you should get at least half or 3/4 of your money in value. Not with these sets. Flat out insulting.
http://www.quietspeculation.com/2014...potting-fakes/
Also, I thought this video provided a very compelling argument regarding the current affairs of mtg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qKcJF4fOPs
M14 was good (or at least it was for Modern). We got Mutavault back and we got Scavenging Ooze, Young Pyromancer, Chandra, Pyromaster, Celestial Flare, and Archangel of Thune are all Modern playable.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Highly doubtful, one of the best things Star City has going for them is their reputation. The damage that would be done if such a thing was discovered far outweighs the relatively small amount of profit they would make reselling these fakes.
Um, Star City Games was actually outspoken in their opposition to the Reserved List and attempted to convince Wizards of the Coast to get rid of it.
Even if well known retailers are knowingly buying and selling fakes, they are most assuredly being careful about it. A friend of a friend of a friend's cousin's wife's next-door neighbor is probably buying them, not any employees.
PucaTrade Invite. Sign up and enjoy the first 500 points ($5) free!
Also since I cant seem to get a close up view of a confirmed fake dual, does anyone know how to spot fakes of the older cards like Revised Duals?
Why change it?
Because if you get it perfect, you start making $50 a card instead of $0.05 a card...
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that what they just sold was a rough draft printing run that they just thought theyd get some penneis for instead of putting it in the trash.