I never noticed this until I saw the Pokemon Elite Trainer boxes and the Yugioh deluxe editions, but, they both contain card sleeves, and it is time that MTG followed suit, although both TPCi and Konami followed WOTC's suit with the whole fat pack concept.
What do you want to change about the fat pack contents to make way for a pack of 80 sleeves?
Here is the constraint. The MSRP must remain at $39.99.
Here are the contents of the current fat pack.
Poster of some sort
Player's guide
Storage box
2 Deck boxes
20 sided die
80 basic lands
how to play insert
9 booster packs
Now me, ideally I would change nothing, but if I had to remove something, it would be one of the 2 deck boxes. Heck, remove both deck boxes if it is necessary. I am on the fence with the 20 sided die though. Player's guide must stay. Those paper deck boxes would just be moved to a different product such as intro packs.
On the subject of fat pack type of products in other TCGs, does anyone know about the World of Warcraft epic collection boxes? 6 packs, but it also conatins a felt playmat and an actual plastic deck box. Now that was beast, but WoW TCG went the way of the dodo, but enough about that, we are talking about how to incorporate card sleeves into fat packs.
I think if anything sleeves should be put into Event Decks not fat packs. Event Decks are made to be able to play them at a FNM. So putting sleeves in those would make sense.
You missed a pretty important part of your opening post:
Explaining WHY you think we should have card sleeves in any bundled product at all.
"Because pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh do it" is not a good reason, considering you could just as easily say "Pokemon should stop putting cards in their deck boxes, because that's how WOTC do it" ...
If they sell Pre-Constructed stuff they could easily include special Sleeves for that deck (with pictures and the like) ; as thats not expensive and would actual boost the decks, even if they arent that great otherwise.
Fatpacks could also easily contain Sleeves, but are much less in need of them, as they dont really make a deck with the cards in them.
Also Yu-Gi-Oh is 40 card decks, and the cards are smaller than MTG size.
So I think what you're asking for is impossible. If you're drafting you don't want 40 sleeves from a fatpack, and if you're making a deck from opening 9 boosters then 60 sleeves might be too much.
The fat pack is only meant as an "instant collection" for players. It would seem like they were meant for storage/reserve purposes instead of being playable right out of the box.
What the fat pack needs is the novel since it gives you a good background story on the set.
The sleeves should be included in the event deck, but then again this might skyrocket the costs of event deck which Wizards is keeping low to attract new players.
I'd rather have Wizards release a regular "Gift Box" which includes 2 boosters, a deck box, a deck sleeve and a playmat of the set.
The fat pack is only meant as an "instant collection" for players. It would seem like they were meant for storage/reserve purposes instead of being playable right out of the box.
What the fat pack needs is the novel since it gives you a good background story on the set.
The sleeves should be included in the event deck, but then again this might skyrocket the costs of event deck which Wizards is keeping low to attract new players.
I'd rather have Wizards release a regular "Gift Box" which includes 2 boosters, a deck box, a deck sleeve and a playmat of the set.
Fat packs used to come with a novel, but then they abandoned the books and what we have now is the current fat pack.
Putting sleeves in a fatpack would raise the cost of producing them, and so the cost to buy them would raise in kind. So no, they shouldn't put sleeves that would end up being of questionable quality in Fatpacks. You're already paying extra in addition to the packs at $4 each for deck boxes and a card holder of questionable quality, so why add more subpar side product when everyone knows they buy them as an excuse to open 9 packs?
I'd say no, because you'd probably be getting cheap sleeves that break constantly.like Ultra pro matte sleeves, and not good quality sleeves like kmc or dragon shields
Putting sleeves in a fatpack would raise the cost of producing them, and so the cost to buy them would raise in kind. So no, they shouldn't put sleeves that would end up being of questionable quality in Fatpacks. You're already paying extra in addition to the packs at $4 each for deck boxes and a card holder of questionable quality, so why add more subpar side product when everyone knows they buy them as an excuse to open 9 packs?
Agreed. From a Magic consumer standpoint buying fat packs is inefficient to begin with, and anyone who purchases them is already asking to get ripped off. Hypothetically, I could see buying one as a gift for a new player, but I could never fathom buying one for myself, because you almost always come up short even when preordering booster boxes at a discount which has a better cost per pack ratio. They're great to draft with, but what about all the unplayable chop you end up with? The way I see it, if you want quality over quantity, you focus on purchasing singles and trading. If you want an overrated artistic box and an insignificant player's guide that nobody really needs, you ignorantly fall for the fat pack trap. That being said, the only thing fat packs "need" is to cost less than they already do or contain a tenth booster pack.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
At the very least, Fat Packs should have cardboard deck boxes that are big enough to HOLD SLEEVED CARDS. It is insane to me that WotC puts those crappy cardboard deck boxes in their fat packs and these boxes are not big enough to hold sleeved cards. Ridiculous!
At the very least, Fat Packs should have cardboard deck boxes that are big enough to HOLD SLEEVED CARDS. It is insane to me that WotC puts those crappy cardboard deck boxes in their fat packs and these boxes are not big enough to hold sleeved cards. Ridiculous!
For me, sleeves were only something I used after I became competent at magic, which the target audience for fat packs isn't. Have you ever seen a competitive player open a fat pack?
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If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
I'm a competitive player, and I usually buy a fat pack or two of each set just for storage purposes. In an ideal world they'd sell a Holiday Gift Box equivalent for each set, not each block, and then I'd have a place to store all my terrible cards when I'm done with them.
That being said, Wizards putting sleeves in anything is a waste of time and money, solely because they have an exclusive contract with Ultra-Pro for Magic products, and Ultra-Pro sleeves are the worst quality available on the market.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
I think fat packs need to get rid of 3 boosters, include a novel, include a premium foil card, get rid of the 2 cardboard deck boxes, get rid of the storage box, get rid of the poster, get rid of the basic lands, the player's guide must be 8.5 x 11, and when viewed from the side, the packaging is sort of like a triangle shape. The entire thing is shrink wrapped. Did I mention that the price would be $24.95?
If the fat pack wasn't meant to be played with out of the box, then explain the rules insert included with it?
I am also going to use an argument, that I don't agree with, that Pokemon TCG people, from a different forum says about energy cards being included in some products. "Those energy cards could have been common or uncommon pokemon or trainer cards", likewise, "those basic lands could have been a pack of 80 commons and uncommons", but those basic lands are there, and the inclusion of the basic lands scream that the fat pack isn't entirely for collectors.
It is clear that the fat pack, with it's 2 paper deck boxes, were somehow designed to be played with out of the box. If you look at some of the player's guide, they mention some mini games you can play using one fat pack. Look at Dark Ascension and Theros player's guide for example.
I also strongly feel that with the contents within, the fat pack is NOT worth $39.99. Usually in a bundled set, the booster packs each should cost less than they were individually, so let's lower it to $3 per pack. This means $13 for the rest of the stuff, and for sure the rest of the stuff doesn't cost $13.
In the end, it doesn't matter to me anyway. Each of the MTG fat pack, Pokemon Elite Trainer box, and Yugioh deluxe editions doesn't have something that the other 2 have. Another thing I noticed was that the yugioh and pokemon fanbase wanted sleeves in their respective versions of the fat pack, but it seems it is the opposite with the MTG fanbase.
MTG Fat packs don't have card sleeves, but have 2 paper deck boxes.
Pokemon Elite Trainer boxes don't have a rules insert/how to play guide/beginner's guide etc, but have tons of dice.
Yugioh Deluxe edition don't have a visual card encyclopedia, but have 4 promo cards, 2 of which are previews of the next set. Although it is $10 cheaper than the competition, the annoying part is that the cards are too deep in the box, and the box is too big for the small sized cards, even when sleeved. There is a reason why MTG fat packs have that cardboard ring around the inside of the lid, so the box can be lower than the height of the cards, and that the lowest point of the lid doesn't go beyond the bottom of the box when the box closes.
Enough about that, what about dividers? Heck, even a foil premium card, similar to what the holiday gift boxes have. Old fat packs used to have foil premium cards.
Okay, they put sleeves in the fat pack. Which sleeves do they put in there? Ultra Pro? Well, what if I use KMC or Dragon Shield? I can't use those sleeves, as they're different enough.
Even if I did use Ultra Pro, what colour would be put in there? Black? A random colour? I have a one in five chance of them being usable. The value of adding sleeves won't be that high here.
That being said, Wizards putting sleeves in anything is a waste of time and money, solely because they have an exclusive contract with Ultra-Pro for Magic products, and Ultra-Pro sleeves are the worst quality available on the market.
This isn't the case anymore. I'm not sure about the quality of Ultra-Pro's current regular sleeves, but their black matte sleeves (from the last year or so) are awesome.
I actually enjoy fat packs. I buy singles when I'm working on decks. But like a poster said above, its really just an excuse to crack 9 packs in a row. I enjoy it. I also get use out of the box, as i use it to carry my deck, sideboard, dice and some soldier tokens to FNM and TNM. The die is nice too, but thats just a bonus. I normally just buy 1 per set just for fun. And if im lucky, ill crack some stuff for my trade binder.
I wouldn't want card sleeves in one though. If anything, they can get rid of the poster, inserts, deck boxes and all that jazz. Give me the box the 9 boosters and the die. and drop it to 30. i think thatd be best
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I buy them for the boxes (for junk cards), the player guide, and the dice (I don't know why I have so many but I like them). I don't mind paying $4 for those things. I've also been giving the art to my girlfriend for the walls of her room.
Just like all the other stuff that Wizards puts out there, if you don't like it then don't buy it.
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I stopped buying them when they stopped the novels (which obviously meant there were none to put them in), except for core sets (since those had no stories to begin with) until M14 (because I personally found M14 to be simply too lackluster as a set overall).
Sometimes I think WotC should copy Weiss Schwarz / Chaos TCG and place 5 exclusive sleeves per box of cards, and a playmat in every case. And then place a lottery point system using the token/advert card slot where you will obtain points from the "Lottery Card" and you can exchange them for TCG Merchandise.
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What do you want to change about the fat pack contents to make way for a pack of 80 sleeves?
Here is the constraint. The MSRP must remain at $39.99.
Here are the contents of the current fat pack.
Poster of some sort
Player's guide
Storage box
2 Deck boxes
20 sided die
80 basic lands
how to play insert
9 booster packs
Now me, ideally I would change nothing, but if I had to remove something, it would be one of the 2 deck boxes. Heck, remove both deck boxes if it is necessary. I am on the fence with the 20 sided die though. Player's guide must stay. Those paper deck boxes would just be moved to a different product such as intro packs.
On the subject of fat pack type of products in other TCGs, does anyone know about the World of Warcraft epic collection boxes? 6 packs, but it also conatins a felt playmat and an actual plastic deck box. Now that was beast, but WoW TCG went the way of the dodo, but enough about that, we are talking about how to incorporate card sleeves into fat packs.
Explaining WHY you think we should have card sleeves in any bundled product at all.
"Because pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh do it" is not a good reason, considering you could just as easily say "Pokemon should stop putting cards in their deck boxes, because that's how WOTC do it" ...
Fatpacks could also easily contain Sleeves, but are much less in need of them, as they dont really make a deck with the cards in them.
Commander could easily come with Sleeves.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
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Booster x 9 = retail $36
$4 - booklet, die, box, "deck case", lands,
Also Yu-Gi-Oh is 40 card decks, and the cards are smaller than MTG size.
So I think what you're asking for is impossible. If you're drafting you don't want 40 sleeves from a fatpack, and if you're making a deck from opening 9 boosters then 60 sleeves might be too much.
What the fat pack needs is the novel since it gives you a good background story on the set.
The sleeves should be included in the event deck, but then again this might skyrocket the costs of event deck which Wizards is keeping low to attract new players.
I'd rather have Wizards release a regular "Gift Box" which includes 2 boosters, a deck box, a deck sleeve and a playmat of the set.
Fat packs used to come with a novel, but then they abandoned the books and what we have now is the current fat pack.
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GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
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G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
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B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Agreed. From a Magic consumer standpoint buying fat packs is inefficient to begin with, and anyone who purchases them is already asking to get ripped off. Hypothetically, I could see buying one as a gift for a new player, but I could never fathom buying one for myself, because you almost always come up short even when preordering booster boxes at a discount which has a better cost per pack ratio. They're great to draft with, but what about all the unplayable chop you end up with? The way I see it, if you want quality over quantity, you focus on purchasing singles and trading. If you want an overrated artistic box and an insignificant player's guide that nobody really needs, you ignorantly fall for the fat pack trap. That being said, the only thing fat packs "need" is to cost less than they already do or contain a tenth booster pack.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
For me, sleeves were only something I used after I became competent at magic, which the target audience for fat packs isn't. Have you ever seen a competitive player open a fat pack?
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I hate the reserved list.
Mythic rares are fine.
That being said, Wizards putting sleeves in anything is a waste of time and money, solely because they have an exclusive contract with Ultra-Pro for Magic products, and Ultra-Pro sleeves are the worst quality available on the market.
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
If the fat pack wasn't meant to be played with out of the box, then explain the rules insert included with it?
I am also going to use an argument, that I don't agree with, that Pokemon TCG people, from a different forum says about energy cards being included in some products. "Those energy cards could have been common or uncommon pokemon or trainer cards", likewise, "those basic lands could have been a pack of 80 commons and uncommons", but those basic lands are there, and the inclusion of the basic lands scream that the fat pack isn't entirely for collectors.
It is clear that the fat pack, with it's 2 paper deck boxes, were somehow designed to be played with out of the box. If you look at some of the player's guide, they mention some mini games you can play using one fat pack. Look at Dark Ascension and Theros player's guide for example.
I also strongly feel that with the contents within, the fat pack is NOT worth $39.99. Usually in a bundled set, the booster packs each should cost less than they were individually, so let's lower it to $3 per pack. This means $13 for the rest of the stuff, and for sure the rest of the stuff doesn't cost $13.
In the end, it doesn't matter to me anyway. Each of the MTG fat pack, Pokemon Elite Trainer box, and Yugioh deluxe editions doesn't have something that the other 2 have. Another thing I noticed was that the yugioh and pokemon fanbase wanted sleeves in their respective versions of the fat pack, but it seems it is the opposite with the MTG fanbase.
MTG Fat packs don't have card sleeves, but have 2 paper deck boxes.
Pokemon Elite Trainer boxes don't have a rules insert/how to play guide/beginner's guide etc, but have tons of dice.
Yugioh Deluxe edition don't have a visual card encyclopedia, but have 4 promo cards, 2 of which are previews of the next set. Although it is $10 cheaper than the competition, the annoying part is that the cards are too deep in the box, and the box is too big for the small sized cards, even when sleeved. There is a reason why MTG fat packs have that cardboard ring around the inside of the lid, so the box can be lower than the height of the cards, and that the lowest point of the lid doesn't go beyond the bottom of the box when the box closes.
Enough about that, what about dividers? Heck, even a foil premium card, similar to what the holiday gift boxes have. Old fat packs used to have foil premium cards.
Even if I did use Ultra Pro, what colour would be put in there? Black? A random colour? I have a one in five chance of them being usable. The value of adding sleeves won't be that high here.
This isn't the case anymore. I'm not sure about the quality of Ultra-Pro's current regular sleeves, but their black matte sleeves (from the last year or so) are awesome.
I wouldn't want card sleeves in one though. If anything, they can get rid of the poster, inserts, deck boxes and all that jazz. Give me the box the 9 boosters and the die. and drop it to 30. i think thatd be best
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Just like all the other stuff that Wizards puts out there, if you don't like it then don't buy it.
There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
Sometimes I think WotC should copy Weiss Schwarz / Chaos TCG and place 5 exclusive sleeves per box of cards, and a playmat in every case. And then place a lottery point system using the token/advert card slot where you will obtain points from the "Lottery Card" and you can exchange them for TCG Merchandise.