One of the biggest reasons that I am playing modern rather than legacy is the price issue. There is a thriving community of legacy players here, so I thought, lets ask them what can be built for 300-400$. According to them, my choices boiled down to a few options, one dimensional decks, or ones that roll over and die post sideboard (burn, dredge, affinity). Most of them suggested that I spend my money on staples, rather than having a deck. I could probably port my modern deck (hatebears) to legacy, but the first step is getting wastelands, krakases and ports, thats kind of a big investment right there. I 100% agree that legacy is the most interesting, and well balanced format, but its out of my price range, and will be for several years
You should ask to borrow decks/cards. It's extremely common in the Seattle area. It helps you get some experience while you accumulate staples.
I figure it is more effective to post this here. Skip straight to 11:00 for this guy's key points if you don't want to watch the whole video. Agree or disagree? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wrysSf2NB4
I will try to make a transcript of some of the key points:
"I heard people from my card shop, 'why are they reprinting Thoughtseize, now all the little kids are gonna have it.' Just salty old bastards. Who gives a ****? Just let people enjoy the game. The more people who are inhibiting new players from playing, is the more the game are going to be expensive, the more people aren't going to be playing the game, and the quicker its gonna die. If the game does die out, if it becomes too expensive for any new players to play, then they will stop making any money and Magic will stop to exist. Who gives a ***** about the old men who are ******* bastards, just enjoy the game and just realize that at some point you got into Magic, everyone who got into Magic had to start from somewhere, you had to start from scratch. And to this day, I don't need any of these cards because I already have them, but I don't think they should be $50-$60 ******* dollars. This is not a $60 dollar card. Teferi, the Blue Moon deck had Teferi jump up to like $40...okay now it went down. But still, $25 my ass. I'm not paying $25, this is not a ******* $25 card."
I figure it is more effective to post this here. Skip straight to 11:00 for this guy's key points if you don't want to watch the whole video. Agree or disagree? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wrysSf2NB4
I will try to make a transcript of some of the key points:
"I heard people from my card shop, 'why are they reprinting Thoughtseize, now all the little kids are gonna have it.' Just salty old bastards. Who gives a ****? Just let people enjoy the game. The more people who are inhibiting new players from playing, is the more the game are going to be expensive, the more people aren't going to be playing the game, and the quicker its gonna die. If the game does die out, if it becomes too expensive for any new players to play, then they will stop making any money and Magic will stop to exist. Who gives a ***** about the old men who are ******* bastards, just enjoy the game and just realize that at some point you got into Magic, everyone who got into Magic had to start from somewhere, you had to start from scratch. And to this day, I don't need any of these cards because I already have them, but I don't think they should be $50-$60 ******* dollars. This is not a $60 dollar card. Teferi, the Blue Moon deck had Teferi jump up to like $40...okay now it went down. But still, $25 my ass. I'm not paying $25, this is not a ******* $25 card."
I'm in favor of reprints but I really hated the argument at the end where somehow he gets to decide what the price of a card "should" be. I wouldn't buy Teferi at $25 either. That doesn't mean it "isn't" $25. That's not how a market works. Also not a fan of the cursing every other sentence.
I'm in favor of reprints but I really hated the argument at the end where somehow he gets to decide what the price of a card "should" be. I wouldn't buy Teferi at $25 either. That doesn't mean it "isn't" $25. That's not how a market works. Also not a fan of the cursing every other sentence.
I think the problem he has, and I do too, is that it shot up overnight. Also the $25 was in regards to it's cost when he did the vid not the cost he thinks it should be. He was correcting himself because he said it was $40 but found out it had gone back down a bit.
I do like his distinction between TCG and CCG. Magic is not a CCG. You can collect it, but it is meant to be played with. You CAN collect a lot of things; stones, art, small pieces of dryer lint...but their price is based on how many exist. If only one Mona Lisa painted by Da Vinci's own hand exists than it should be expensive. But if on tuesday Teferi is $4 and on wednesday it $40 after a good showing, it is based on play ability. Nobody is collecting Teferi in such large volumes that it should cost that much. So if it is that much because people want to play with it, then the smart thing to do would be to reprint it. They would sell packs to people trying to open the card they want to play with, which is where wizards will make their money anyway.
I don't feel like wizards is proactive enough about reprints for modern. Now I don't think that they should print into oblivion just no card should be even close to $100 in modern. It's the poormans legacy. I think the problem was the way they birthed it. It came about 2 years ago and used cards from as far back as 11 years ago. Then they try to push new players into it when they have a halfway janky standard deck thats an intro deck and a few packs they picked up just to see. Now those people are told to play a format where they own very few, if any staples.(Yes they are being told. Wizards has made it very clear they want as many people as possible playing the format.) I was, for example, 13 when 8th edition came out. Didn't have money for cards. Hadn't even heard of magic. Played for the first time at original ravnica but only had my friend and his older brother to play with. Came back again in 2009 for Alara/Zendikar but didn't have the ability to order offline, didn't have a card shop local, didn't have crap load of money to crack packs. Didn't pull any fetches, didn't pull elspeth, pulled 1 big eldrzi, did get the two jaces which is weird which I still have one of them...but should I be penalized because my parents didn't get it on sooner so I would have been older than 3 when aplha came out so I could have duals? If you say yes then you are whats wrong with the market. I have 3 Lilis and I would like to see her at $15 dollars, which is where she was at rotation. I like the fact that I could turn them into money, but not at the cost of the health of the format. I wouldn't want the next generation on magic players to have any more difficult time getting in than I did and all I ask is for the same from the generation that receeded me.
I'm in favor of reprints but I really hated the argument at the end where somehow he gets to decide what the price of a card "should" be. I wouldn't buy Teferi at $25 either. That doesn't mean it "isn't" $25. That's not how a market works. Also not a fan of the cursing every other sentence.
I think the problem he has, and I do too, is that it shot up overnight. Also the $25 was in regards to it's cost when he did the vid not the cost he thinks it should be. He was correcting himself because he said it was $40 but found out it had gone back down a bit.
I do like his distinction between TCG and CCG. Magic is not a CCG. You can collect it, but it is meant to be played with. You CAN collect a lot of things; stones, art, small pieces of dryer lint...but their price is based on how many exist. If only one Mona Lisa painted by Da Vinci's own hand exists than it should be expensive. But if on tuesday Teferi is $4 and on wednesday it $40 after a good showing, it is based on play ability. Nobody is collecting Teferi in such large volumes that it should cost that much. So if it is that much because people want to play with it, then the smart thing to do would be to reprint it. They would sell packs to people trying to open the card they want to play with, which is where wizards will make their money anyway.
I don't feel like wizards is proactive enough about reprints for modern. Now I don't think that they should print into oblivion just no card should be even close to $100 in modern. It's the poormans legacy. I think the problem was the way they birthed it. It came about 2 years ago and used cards from as far back as 11 years ago. Then they try to push new players into it when they have a halfway janky standard deck thats an intro deck and a few packs they picked up just to see. Now those people are told to play a format where they own very few, if any staples.(Yes they are being told. Wizards has made it very clear they want as many people as possible playing the format.) I was, for example, 13 when 8th edition came out. Didn't have money for cards. Hadn't even heard of magic. Played for the first time at original ravnica but only had my friend and his older brother to play with. Came back again in 2009 for Alara/Zendikar but didn't have the ability to order offline, didn't have a card shop local, didn't have crap load of money to crack packs. Didn't pull any fetches, didn't pull elspeth, pulled 1 big eldrzi, did get the two jaces which is weird which I still have one of them...but should I be penalized because my parents didn't get it on sooner so I would have been older than 3 when aplha came out so I could have duals? If you say yes then you are whats wrong with the market. I have 3 Lilis and I would like to see her at $15 dollars, which is where she was at rotation. I like the fact that I could turn them into money, but not at the cost of the health of the format. I wouldn't want the next generation on magic players to have any more difficult time getting in than I did and all I ask is for the same from the generation that receeded me.
Like I said, I'm in favor of reprints. THIS is what I was referring to:
This is not a $60 dollar card. Teferi, the Blue Moon deck had Teferi jump up to like $40...okay now it went down. But still, $25 my ass. I'm not paying $25, this is not a ******* $25 card.
Upon thinking about it, perhaps he was just being lazy and meant that he didn't think they should be that high, but didn't say the full thought in detail. I just took issue with it because if he meant it like he said it, he is ignoring very simple supply/demand theories. Even Teferi. Sudden spike in demand, supply doesn't have a chance to catch up because it takes a while to sell cards. Yeah. Of course it will spike in the short term and stay higher than it was in the long term. I think that in general, I don't like when people say "I wouldn't want to pay x for card y, so it is overpriced."
Sometimes I wonder how effective a fetchland reprint in a Standard-legal set would be at reducing their prices. Sure, the shockland reprint in RTR block helped a lot, but shocklands were only at most $30-35 before they got reprinted and not $60-70 like the blue Zendikar fetchlands are. Thoughtseize is certainly a good argument for reprints - the Lorwyn version was pushing $70 before it got reprinted in Theros and is now down to $36 while the reprint is at a healthy $15-20 - but you also have cases like Mutavault which actually increased in price post-reprint thanks to its ubiquity in Standard. I'd argue that fetchlands in Standard would be more likely to behave like the latter.
There's also the question of how the Onslaught allied colour fetchlands would behave if they were ever reprinted. They're among the most expensive and sought after Legacy/Vintage-only cards right now and I feel like the increase in demand for them for Modern and Standard would outweigh in the increase in supply brought about by a reprint.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy:UR Sneak and Show IUBG Team America IX Metalworker MUD Modern:UBR Blue Jund IWBX Eldrazi Processors IX Affinity IWRG Nacatl Burn IGR Tron IUBR Grishoalbrand
Thoughtseize went down because it's only usable in decks that can cast it. Mutavault went up because it is equally at home in aggro and control, and can use any color. Both of these are 1 card reprints. Now you reprint a 10 card cycle for fetches. Also upon rotation, don't expect Mutavault to retain it's cost. I don't see fetches going up because Wizards would die for a whole standard season if their dual lands were pushing $100, they would act with this in mind. The coreset is a smaller print than the blocks so less mutavaults per fetch were printed. If the shocks had waited another season to be printed I'm sure that they would have hit the same prices. Also the price of standard cards is based on the drafters. The more they draft and sell off their cards the lower the prices are. This just tells me that M14 didn't get drafted enough to bring down mutavault prices. I know locally M14 sat on the shelves. Above all else I think the amount of packs cracked for a set with fetches will outweigh any other set we have seen recently. This means more into circulation. Also they will probably do what they did with RTR and have them printed in two sets then as a bonus in the third. either way the price drop will ocme about upon their rotation and not by their printing.
I figure it is more effective to post this here. Skip straight to 11:00 for this guy's key points if you don't want to watch the whole video. Agree or disagree? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wrysSf2NB4
I will try to make a transcript of some of the key points:
"I heard people from my card shop, 'why are they reprinting Thoughtseize, now all the little kids are gonna have it.' Just salty old bastards. Who gives a ****? Just let people enjoy the game. The more people who are inhibiting new players from playing, is the more the game are going to be expensive, the more people aren't going to be playing the game, and the quicker its gonna die. If the game does die out, if it becomes too expensive for any new players to play, then they will stop making any money and Magic will stop to exist. Who gives a ***** about the old men who are ******* bastards, just enjoy the game and just realize that at some point you got into Magic, everyone who got into Magic had to start from somewhere, you had to start from scratch. And to this day, I don't need any of these cards because I already have them, but I don't think they should be $50-$60 ******* dollars. This is not a $60 dollar card. Teferi, the Blue Moon deck had Teferi jump up to like $40...okay now it went down. But still, $25 my ass. I'm not paying $25, this is not a ******* $25 card."
Good video! I agree! We should OPENLY laugh at, and MOCK these types of people. First the s.speculators for driving up the prices, and the herd of people who buy the cards and support the s.speculators (figure out what the s is for).
Why should these guys get any laurels? They are messing up the game I love for money. Go trade stocks or get a job, but leave the game alone.
Sometimes I wonder how effective a fetchland reprint in a Standard-legal set would be at reducing their prices. Sure, the shockland reprint in RTR block helped a lot, but shocklands were only at most $30-35 before they got reprinted and not $60-70 like the blue Zendikar fetchlands are. Thoughtseize is certainly a good argument for reprints - the Lorwyn version was pushing $70 before it got reprinted in Theros and is now down to $36 while the reprint is at a healthy $15-20 - but you also have cases like Mutavault which actually increased in price post-reprint thanks to its ubiquity in Standard. I'd argue that fetchlands in Standard would be more likely to behave like the latter.
There's also the question of how the Onslaught allied colour fetchlands would behave if they were ever reprinted. They're among the most expensive and sought after Legacy/Vintage-only cards right now and I feel like the increase in demand for them for Modern and Standard would outweigh in the increase in supply brought about by a reprint.
Mutavault was in a core set. Core sets are only opened a fraction of block sets. If they release Fetches in a core set they will drop big time. I would guess no more than $15 for the most expensive Fetch if they do all 10 of them in a core set. If they do like RTR and do 5/5 plus more in the third set it would be opened like crazy. I would actually expect less discounting on boxes for a longer period than normal as stores would probably sell out of product quickly.
For anyone saying that a reprint of fetches in a full magic set as opposed to a supplemental product may not even help the prices, possibly even causing them to go up because of standard interest:
That can't happen. If the prices for fetches even stayed at what they are now, let alone went up, it would be more price efficient to crack boxes instead of just buying the single fetches you need. If that happens, people just start opening boxes, putting more of the cards that are valuable into play, until the time comes when they're no longer worth enough to open boxes for (unless you're a store cracking tons of boxes and reasonably able to sell other things besides JUST the chase cards).
Good video! I agree! We should OPENLY laugh at, and MOCK these types of people. First the s.speculators for driving up the prices, and the herd of people who buy the cards and support the s.speculators (figure out what the s is for).
Why should these guys get any laurels? They are messing up the game I love for money. Go trade stocks or get a job, but leave the game alone.
I agree. If you want to make money buying, selling, trading, and investing, then you can make far more money getting into the stock market. Yes, Wizards, distributors, and card shops are businesses and have to make money. But speculators and hoarders can go eff themselves.
Good video! I agree! We should OPENLY laugh at, and MOCK these types of people. First the s.speculators for driving up the prices, and the herd of people who buy the cards and support the s.speculators (figure out what the s is for).
Why should these guys get any laurels? They are messing up the game I love for money. Go trade stocks or get a job, but leave the game alone.
I agree. If you want to make money buying, selling, trading, and investing, then you can make far more money getting into the stock market. Yes, Wizards, distributors, and card shops are businesses and have to make money. But speculators and hoarders can go eff themselves.
It seems like we're in the minority Everyone wants to swing on the speculators coconuts. Not me, and I'm glad there's at least one other person who agrees! One at a time! I have no idea how people let this disgrace stand!
isn't that vintage/legacy/old extended's complaint?
You should ask to borrow decks/cards. It's extremely common in the Seattle area. It helps you get some experience while you accumulate staples.
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wrysSf2NB4
I will try to make a transcript of some of the key points:
"I heard people from my card shop, 'why are they reprinting Thoughtseize, now all the little kids are gonna have it.' Just salty old bastards. Who gives a ****? Just let people enjoy the game. The more people who are inhibiting new players from playing, is the more the game are going to be expensive, the more people aren't going to be playing the game, and the quicker its gonna die. If the game does die out, if it becomes too expensive for any new players to play, then they will stop making any money and Magic will stop to exist. Who gives a ***** about the old men who are ******* bastards, just enjoy the game and just realize that at some point you got into Magic, everyone who got into Magic had to start from somewhere, you had to start from scratch. And to this day, I don't need any of these cards because I already have them, but I don't think they should be $50-$60 ******* dollars. This is not a $60 dollar card. Teferi, the Blue Moon deck had Teferi jump up to like $40...okay now it went down. But still, $25 my ass. I'm not paying $25, this is not a ******* $25 card."
I'm in favor of reprints but I really hated the argument at the end where somehow he gets to decide what the price of a card "should" be. I wouldn't buy Teferi at $25 either. That doesn't mean it "isn't" $25. That's not how a market works. Also not a fan of the cursing every other sentence.
I think the problem he has, and I do too, is that it shot up overnight. Also the $25 was in regards to it's cost when he did the vid not the cost he thinks it should be. He was correcting himself because he said it was $40 but found out it had gone back down a bit.
I do like his distinction between TCG and CCG. Magic is not a CCG. You can collect it, but it is meant to be played with. You CAN collect a lot of things; stones, art, small pieces of dryer lint...but their price is based on how many exist. If only one Mona Lisa painted by Da Vinci's own hand exists than it should be expensive. But if on tuesday Teferi is $4 and on wednesday it $40 after a good showing, it is based on play ability. Nobody is collecting Teferi in such large volumes that it should cost that much. So if it is that much because people want to play with it, then the smart thing to do would be to reprint it. They would sell packs to people trying to open the card they want to play with, which is where wizards will make their money anyway.
I don't feel like wizards is proactive enough about reprints for modern. Now I don't think that they should print into oblivion just no card should be even close to $100 in modern. It's the poormans legacy. I think the problem was the way they birthed it. It came about 2 years ago and used cards from as far back as 11 years ago. Then they try to push new players into it when they have a halfway janky standard deck thats an intro deck and a few packs they picked up just to see. Now those people are told to play a format where they own very few, if any staples.(Yes they are being told. Wizards has made it very clear they want as many people as possible playing the format.) I was, for example, 13 when 8th edition came out. Didn't have money for cards. Hadn't even heard of magic. Played for the first time at original ravnica but only had my friend and his older brother to play with. Came back again in 2009 for Alara/Zendikar but didn't have the ability to order offline, didn't have a card shop local, didn't have crap load of money to crack packs. Didn't pull any fetches, didn't pull elspeth, pulled 1 big eldrzi, did get the two jaces which is weird which I still have one of them...but should I be penalized because my parents didn't get it on sooner so I would have been older than 3 when aplha came out so I could have duals? If you say yes then you are whats wrong with the market. I have 3 Lilis and I would like to see her at $15 dollars, which is where she was at rotation. I like the fact that I could turn them into money, but not at the cost of the health of the format. I wouldn't want the next generation on magic players to have any more difficult time getting in than I did and all I ask is for the same from the generation that receeded me.
Like I said, I'm in favor of reprints. THIS is what I was referring to:
Upon thinking about it, perhaps he was just being lazy and meant that he didn't think they should be that high, but didn't say the full thought in detail. I just took issue with it because if he meant it like he said it, he is ignoring very simple supply/demand theories. Even Teferi. Sudden spike in demand, supply doesn't have a chance to catch up because it takes a while to sell cards. Yeah. Of course it will spike in the short term and stay higher than it was in the long term. I think that in general, I don't like when people say "I wouldn't want to pay x for card y, so it is overpriced."
There's also the question of how the Onslaught allied colour fetchlands would behave if they were ever reprinted. They're among the most expensive and sought after Legacy/Vintage-only cards right now and I feel like the increase in demand for them for Modern and Standard would outweigh in the increase in supply brought about by a reprint.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Good video! I agree! We should OPENLY laugh at, and MOCK these types of people. First the s.speculators for driving up the prices, and the herd of people who buy the cards and support the s.speculators (figure out what the s is for).
Why should these guys get any laurels? They are messing up the game I love for money. Go trade stocks or get a job, but leave the game alone.
Mutavault was in a core set. Core sets are only opened a fraction of block sets. If they release Fetches in a core set they will drop big time. I would guess no more than $15 for the most expensive Fetch if they do all 10 of them in a core set. If they do like RTR and do 5/5 plus more in the third set it would be opened like crazy. I would actually expect less discounting on boxes for a longer period than normal as stores would probably sell out of product quickly.
That can't happen. If the prices for fetches even stayed at what they are now, let alone went up, it would be more price efficient to crack boxes instead of just buying the single fetches you need. If that happens, people just start opening boxes, putting more of the cards that are valuable into play, until the time comes when they're no longer worth enough to open boxes for (unless you're a store cracking tons of boxes and reasonably able to sell other things besides JUST the chase cards).
I agree. If you want to make money buying, selling, trading, and investing, then you can make far more money getting into the stock market. Yes, Wizards, distributors, and card shops are businesses and have to make money. But speculators and hoarders can go eff themselves.
It seems like we're in the minority Everyone wants to swing on the speculators coconuts. Not me, and I'm glad there's at least one other person who agrees! One at a time! I have no idea how people let this disgrace stand!
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/543372-recent-inflation-price-increases-concerning-for?page=10
Inside-MG link with no other content is spam. Spam infraction -Rax