No. Nobody forces me to pay for a game designed for ages 13+. If someone who owns these products (the store) wants to set the price at what they think is the best price, that's their deal. If a kid buys a CMD 2103 and tries to sell the singles for more than $.30 (since that is the MSRP of the singles) we seem cool with that, but when a store does it.... Yeah, the entitlement issues of Mtg players are lore.
Everything sold higher than MSRP price and unable to preorder at MSRP. While many other company can sell their product at MSRP price(or lower).
Many people are lucky that they have Walmart or some store that sell those item at MSRP but some area or country do not have place like that.
So you're going to complain about stuff that is meant as a little thank you to stores (FTV) being sold higher then the suggested price? Honestly? FTV is NOT sold at Walmart and such. Same for Commander's Arsenal.
Good stores will sell the Commander decks at the normal price. Buy them there. If you can't, that's not Magic's fault, that's the market's fault, the fault of hoarders and locusts diving on top of the stuff.
If you chose to buy the stuff for a price 50% above MSRP, whose fault is that? YOURS. YOU go along with the market. YOU fuel the inflated prices.
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():
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Everything sold higher than MSRP price and unable to preorder at MSRP. While many other company can sell their product at MSRP price(or lower).
Welcome to free market economy. If I have the money to hop on whatever product train and feel the inclination to do so, great. If I feel it's not worthwhile and choose not to spend my money on it, great. If I don't have the money to spend on it, great. But the price is the price...
The image that pops into my mind (on a fairly regular basis, as are price-complaint threads), is the 3 year old with a bad hair cut and a sponge bob shirt throwing a tantrum at the checkout holding a bag of Reese's Pieces because his mother said no. This false sense of entitlement is something I find simply amazing and amusing.
Many people are lucky that they have Walmart or some store that sell those item at MSRP but some area or country do not have place like that.
Yes, and for those countries that are not war-torn despotic remains, where they should have more pressing matters at hand than a card game, I would agree. It does suck. But you know what?
I remember when Magic came out, dude, I was living in rural Maine, we didn't even have Walmart, let alone a cool comic book shop to buy Magic. You know where we got magic? When we were lucky enough to go visit a friend's house who actually lived in a part of the state that had access to a store that carried magic cards.
Know what I never hear on these forums? "Dude, I'm so lucky that I have access to Magic, and D&D, and Battletech," or whatever other fantasy/sci-fi game of your choice. It seems so prevalent among the 20-something crowd that grew up having all this nifty stuff, that they should keep on having it, and on their terms. Now I'm sure I seem all old-timer-on-a-soap-box, but be thankful for what you DO actually have, and stop complaining about what you can't get or you don't feel is fair. Life's not fair, no one said it would be, and there are more things to be concerned about than a pricetag on a children's game. If you can't afford it, or feel so concerned about not being able to afford it, maybe there are things you need to reevaluate about your current lifestyle paradigm.
TL;DR: Life's not fair. People pay what they want to pay. Get over it.
I don't feel cheated when Modern Masters packs sell for a great deal over MSRP. Rather, I feel excited to be taking part in a game that is so popular that it can't stay on the shelves.
This is the new golden age for MTG. The playerbase is larger than ever before, and they're voracious for product.
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These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Everything sold higher than MSRP price and unable to preorder at MSRP. While many other company can sell their product at MSRP price(or lower).
I wasn't interested in Modern Masters, so I can't speak to that, but my LGS consistently has preorders for product under MSRP, and sells sealed product at MSRP after release.
The exception was Commander's Arsenal which my LGS didn't sell at all, instead using it as prize support in several different tournaments (plus our EDH league).
Until they get more supply, the C13 is being exclusively sold as a set (one of each deck), limit 1 per customer, but the price is MSRP.
If I offered you a brand new car in the model you wanted for 50% off, would you happily buy it? Or would you say "Oh no, I don't want to cheat you. i will gladly pay full MSRP, thanks. Take back your discount." ??
No, of course you'd buy the discounted car, because somebody is willing to sell it to you at that price. which is literally the exact same thing as selling something over MSRP if somebody is willing to buy it at that price.
Store owners are no more selfish or immoral than every consumer is.
Who is the bigger fool...the store owners who sell their product at a price higher than MSRP or the customers who pay that price?
Neither. The store set the price at what they felt was appropriate and someone agreed by buying it. The only fool is the person who complains about what appears to be a clean transaction simply because someone else was willing to pay more than they wanted to.
It's funny, I don't feel like Mercedes drivers or dealerships are corrupt because they value a Mercedes more than I do. I don't think people who shop at Whole Foods are corrupt because that exchange is too rich for my blood. But goddamn it all, if some guy wants something enough to pay $60 for something I won't pay more than $30 for... right?
When food becomes so expensive I can't afford it then my tune might change, but as longs we are talking about little game pieces for a totally recreational game that I don't need to play...... yeaaaaaahhhhh.
(Note: I have had a rough go at work lately and cannot afford the decks even at MSRP. I want them, but cannot afford them. That means I don't want them enough to pay what the market says they are worth. In the grand scheme of things that's MY problem, not yours. My game shop owes me nothing. I support them and they support me, but taking advantage of that or treating it like its something owed to you is childish and selfish.)
Neither. The store set the price at what they felt was appropriate and someone agreed by buying it. The only fool is the person who complains about what appears to be a clean transaction simply because someone else was willing to pay more than they wanted to.
It's funny, I don't feel like Mercedes drivers or dealerships are corrupt because they value a Mercedes more than I do. I don't think people who shop at Whole Foods are corrupt because that exchange is too rich for my blood. But goddamn it all, if some guy wants something enough to pay $60 for something I won't pay more than $30 for... right?
When food becomes so expensive I can't afford it then my tune might change, but as longs we are talking about little game pieces for a totally recreational game that I don't need to play...... yeaaaaaahhhhh.
(Note: I have had a rough go at work lately and cannot afford the decks even at MSRP. I want them, but cannot afford them. That means I don't want them enough to pay what the market says they are worth. In the grand scheme of things that's MY problem, not yours. My game shop owes me nothing. I support them and they support me, but taking advantage of that or treating it like its something owed to you is childish and selfish.)
The MARKET HAS SPOKEN /thread
personaly i do not care, if i can get them cheap i will buy if not i wont. Buttom line is people need to start valuing stuff according to their own situation and not what other people situation is. Having priorities is the diference between bankrupcy and retirement on hawaii.
I'm fairly certain everyone knows what it means. The point is more that Wizards knows damn well many of their things will never sell for anywhere near MSRP. Most companies don't do that. Most products end up being driven well below MSRP, especially after a little while, as stores/websites/sellers compete. When Samsung releases a new TV with an MSRP of $700, you can end up finding it for $600 or $500 or whatever depending on the site, date, etc. (and never more than $700). Why suggest a price of $40 for an FTV that you know will never sell for less than $100+?
I'm not saying I care, but that's the point they're trying to make.
I'm fairly certain everyone knows what it means. The point is more that Wizards knows damn well many of their things will never sell for anywhere near MSRP. Most companies don't do that. Most products end up being driven well below MSRP, especially after a little while, as stores/websites/sellers compete. When Samsung releases a new TV with an MSRP of $700, you can end up finding it for $600 or $500 or whatever depending on the site, date, etc. (and never more than $700). Why suggest a price of $40 for an FTV that you know will never sell for less than $100+?
I'm not saying I care, but that's the point they're trying to make.
And you just reinforced the point that I was trying to make. Thanks!
Yes, that's why I don't buy mtg product unless I know exactly what cards I'm getting. The only exceptions to this are when I play limited.
This thread is about FtV and Commander sets... sets where we know exactly what we are buying. Modern Masters is obviously a gamble, but the others are WYSIWYG.
The OP has a point. Sure, we don't NEED the products to survive. He should heed that message.
It seems mtg is the only product in the "toys" category that sells above msrp. This could be due to many factors though.
You don't see LV or Chanel or Gucci stores pricing the goods above msrp and they are LUXURY products.
Ps. I am sick of hearing the comment about getting boosters "below msrp so don't complain"
For those outside the U.S. there are no competing distributors. Wotc is usually the sole distributor and they set the price above msrp.
Around here there were $30 MMA drafts, quite regularly, in fact there was one at a store I was at within 2 months ago. I've never seen packs for more than $13, but even then that's the high end, most were around $10-12.
I got a FTV 20 at MSRP because I found a store that was offering the deal to the people who played the FNM that night.
I got the new grixis EDH deck for MSRP at a local box store, because I knew where to look. I bought the deck because I wanted baleful strix and true name. If I ever play EDH the Jeleva is probably the general I'd use, she seems good.
The fact of the matter, it's really simple, is that you can find deals, you can find things for the MSRP, you just have to know where to look.
It's like they say, you can spend money on this game oryou can spend effort, and honestly I'm willing to spend effort, and you're willing to spend neither.
On one hand, no one is forcing you to buy anything, you have a conscious choice.
On the other hand, the store makes up whatever price they want, cards cost a few cents to make.
Comprise: You are to some extent being cheated as you may much more for the product than the cost that it is produced for, and it is partly your fault for choosing to go along with it and partly the fault of the party that decides the price to sell to consumers as they willing set the price they think will maximize their profit, but will you often get some amount of fun out of it which is the purpose of consumers possessing those products and it helps to pay the artists via the company making money and store employees.
To sum it up, you are getting somewhat cheated, but as long as you restrain yourself it often is not doing very much harm and can lead to fun and other people making a living which is not necessarily a bad thing.
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Everything sold higher than MSRP price and unable to preorder at MSRP. While many other company can sell their product at MSRP price(or lower).
Many people are lucky that they have Walmart or some store that sell those item at MSRP but some area or country do not have place like that.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Which is why I did not buy those products at retail price. I was pretty happy about the things I found in other peoples' trade binders though.
DCI Rules Advisor
:symg::symw::symb: Junk Rites
Trades
So you're going to complain about stuff that is meant as a little thank you to stores (FTV) being sold higher then the suggested price? Honestly? FTV is NOT sold at Walmart and such. Same for Commander's Arsenal.
Good stores will sell the Commander decks at the normal price. Buy them there. If you can't, that's not Magic's fault, that's the market's fault, the fault of hoarders and locusts diving on top of the stuff.
If you chose to buy the stuff for a price 50% above MSRP, whose fault is that? YOURS. YOU go along with the market. YOU fuel the inflated prices.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Welcome to free market economy. If I have the money to hop on whatever product train and feel the inclination to do so, great. If I feel it's not worthwhile and choose not to spend my money on it, great. If I don't have the money to spend on it, great. But the price is the price...
The image that pops into my mind (on a fairly regular basis, as are price-complaint threads), is the 3 year old with a bad hair cut and a sponge bob shirt throwing a tantrum at the checkout holding a bag of Reese's Pieces because his mother said no. This false sense of entitlement is something I find simply amazing and amusing.
Yes, and for those countries that are not war-torn despotic remains, where they should have more pressing matters at hand than a card game, I would agree. It does suck. But you know what?
I remember when Magic came out, dude, I was living in rural Maine, we didn't even have Walmart, let alone a cool comic book shop to buy Magic. You know where we got magic? When we were lucky enough to go visit a friend's house who actually lived in a part of the state that had access to a store that carried magic cards.
Know what I never hear on these forums? "Dude, I'm so lucky that I have access to Magic, and D&D, and Battletech," or whatever other fantasy/sci-fi game of your choice. It seems so prevalent among the 20-something crowd that grew up having all this nifty stuff, that they should keep on having it, and on their terms. Now I'm sure I seem all old-timer-on-a-soap-box, but be thankful for what you DO actually have, and stop complaining about what you can't get or you don't feel is fair. Life's not fair, no one said it would be, and there are more things to be concerned about than a pricetag on a children's game. If you can't afford it, or feel so concerned about not being able to afford it, maybe there are things you need to reevaluate about your current lifestyle paradigm.
TL;DR: Life's not fair. People pay what they want to pay. Get over it.
Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
This is the new golden age for MTG. The playerbase is larger than ever before, and they're voracious for product.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
The exception was Commander's Arsenal which my LGS didn't sell at all, instead using it as prize support in several different tournaments (plus our EDH league).
Until they get more supply, the C13 is being exclusively sold as a set (one of each deck), limit 1 per customer, but the price is MSRP.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I'm not really seeing a valid or coherent point here. Wait till you get grown up enough to buy a car
.
No, of course you'd buy the discounted car, because somebody is willing to sell it to you at that price. which is literally the exact same thing as selling something over MSRP if somebody is willing to buy it at that price.
Store owners are no more selfish or immoral than every consumer is.
Brag post warning -Rax
Neither. The store set the price at what they felt was appropriate and someone agreed by buying it. The only fool is the person who complains about what appears to be a clean transaction simply because someone else was willing to pay more than they wanted to.
It's funny, I don't feel like Mercedes drivers or dealerships are corrupt because they value a Mercedes more than I do. I don't think people who shop at Whole Foods are corrupt because that exchange is too rich for my blood. But goddamn it all, if some guy wants something enough to pay $60 for something I won't pay more than $30 for... right?
When food becomes so expensive I can't afford it then my tune might change, but as longs we are talking about little game pieces for a totally recreational game that I don't need to play...... yeaaaaaahhhhh.
(Note: I have had a rough go at work lately and cannot afford the decks even at MSRP. I want them, but cannot afford them. That means I don't want them enough to pay what the market says they are worth. In the grand scheme of things that's MY problem, not yours. My game shop owes me nothing. I support them and they support me, but taking advantage of that or treating it like its something owed to you is childish and selfish.)
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
The MARKET HAS SPOKEN /thread
personaly i do not care, if i can get them cheap i will buy if not i wont. Buttom line is people need to start valuing stuff according to their own situation and not what other people situation is. Having priorities is the diference between bankrupcy and retirement on hawaii.
I'm fairly certain everyone knows what it means. The point is more that Wizards knows damn well many of their things will never sell for anywhere near MSRP. Most companies don't do that. Most products end up being driven well below MSRP, especially after a little while, as stores/websites/sellers compete. When Samsung releases a new TV with an MSRP of $700, you can end up finding it for $600 or $500 or whatever depending on the site, date, etc. (and never more than $700). Why suggest a price of $40 for an FTV that you know will never sell for less than $100+?
I'm not saying I care, but that's the point they're trying to make.
And you just reinforced the point that I was trying to make. Thanks!
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
This thread is about FtV and Commander sets... sets where we know exactly what we are buying. Modern Masters is obviously a gamble, but the others are WYSIWYG.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
It seems mtg is the only product in the "toys" category that sells above msrp. This could be due to many factors though.
You don't see LV or Chanel or Gucci stores pricing the goods above msrp and they are LUXURY products.
Ps. I am sick of hearing the comment about getting boosters "below msrp so don't complain"
For those outside the U.S. there are no competing distributors. Wotc is usually the sole distributor and they set the price above msrp.
Around here there were $30 MMA drafts, quite regularly, in fact there was one at a store I was at within 2 months ago. I've never seen packs for more than $13, but even then that's the high end, most were around $10-12.
I got a FTV 20 at MSRP because I found a store that was offering the deal to the people who played the FNM that night.
I got the new grixis EDH deck for MSRP at a local box store, because I knew where to look. I bought the deck because I wanted baleful strix and true name. If I ever play EDH the Jeleva is probably the general I'd use, she seems good.
The fact of the matter, it's really simple, is that you can find deals, you can find things for the MSRP, you just have to know where to look.
It's like they say, you can spend money on this game oryou can spend effort, and honestly I'm willing to spend effort, and you're willing to spend neither.
On one hand, no one is forcing you to buy anything, you have a conscious choice.
On the other hand, the store makes up whatever price they want, cards cost a few cents to make.
Comprise: You are to some extent being cheated as you may much more for the product than the cost that it is produced for, and it is partly your fault for choosing to go along with it and partly the fault of the party that decides the price to sell to consumers as they willing set the price they think will maximize their profit, but will you often get some amount of fun out of it which is the purpose of consumers possessing those products and it helps to pay the artists via the company making money and store employees.
To sum it up, you are getting somewhat cheated, but as long as you restrain yourself it often is not doing very much harm and can lead to fun and other people making a living which is not necessarily a bad thing.