Hey everyone, I run tournaments at our local store and we are looking into having some double elimination bracketed tournaments to change things up. We want to put a time limit on the matches as per a usual tournament however we are not sure how to deal with matches that draw. We want their to be a clear winner and loser in each match so that the tournament can progress, but sometimes matches can run on forever (control mirror matches for example). Can anyone suggest a manner in which to resolve these draws without either letting the match proceed well past time or just calling it a draw?
If there are official rules on this topic i would also love to know, I could not find double elimination rulings anywhere.
Can anyone suggest a manner in which to resolve these draws without either letting the match proceed well past time or just calling it a draw?
Is there a reason you wouldn't want to use the simple coin flip method?
I do know that in the L5R CCG, if the match would be a draw, then both players agree who should have the win; in the case they can't agree, the both are entered as a loss. That might not serve your purposes, but it's a way to avoid a coin flip.
You could combine the two; both players decide who should have the win, and if they can't agree, a coin flip decides it.
In single-elimination events, if a match is still going on at the completion of the five additional turns... the game continues with an additional state-based effect of "The player with the lower life total loses." I would apply that.
Both seem very viable and will be taken into consideration. Both have advantages and disadvantages. I guess if you go to a draw and lose to one of these manners it will just encourage players to play faster and hopefully take more risks.
In single-elimination events, if a match is still going on at the completion of the five additional turns... the game continues with an additional state-based effect of "The player with the lower life total loses." I would apply that.
+1 for this answer.
I would hesitate to use a coin toss. Players are prohibited from randomly choosing a winner, and using a coin could give them the wrong impression.
I don't like the life total solution, as there are quite a few games where that does not indicate who is actually winning. I'd prefer coin toss, or it counts as a loss for both players.
I would strongly suggest against using the coin flip method, even if this event is not sanctioned. You don't want new players showing up to these events and getting the impression that coin flip is ok when they would be DQed for it in any other event.
Look at it this way: if you are playing a regular round robin style matchups, where do the ties go? Tying players get 1 point each, not the full 3. No they aren't "out", but the chance they finish with the most points at the end is 0%.
But if you look at it as how many points have been scored against them, it would be 4, not the 6 that disqualifies everyone else. Therefore I suggest this: if they tie in the upper bracket, they move down. If they tie in the lower bracket, it isn't counted as a loss. If they tie twice, it counts as a loss in the losers bracket, so they're out. In the case of more players in one bracket compared to the other, pair someone up.
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The magic tournament rules cover this:
"In single-elimination rounds, matches may not end in a draw. If all players have equal game wins, the player with the highest life total wins the current game. In the event all players have equal life totals (or are between games and the game wins are tied), the game/match continues with an additional state-based action: if a player does not have the highest life total, he or she loses the game. Two-Headed Giant teams are treated as a single player for determining a game winner."
What if a player has a million life, and one card in his library against a player with 20 life, a board presence, and 20 cards in their library?
In two turns life total loses, but he would win based on life total, making the best deck fortune tournament to be infinant lifegain with no real win condition.
What if a player has a million life, and one card in his library against a player with 20 life, a board presence, and 20 cards in their library?
In two turns life total loses, but he would win based on life total, making the best deck fortune tournament to be infinant lifegain with no real win condition.
@ your what if: there are other variables. The person gaining the life- were they stalling? Perhaps the person at 20 life is not aggressive enough and will lose the next turn.
If you understand the rules going into, have an alt win con. /clap to the winner who made changes due to the meta and rules.
If there are official rules on this topic i would also love to know, I could not find double elimination rulings anywhere.
Is there a reason you wouldn't want to use the simple coin flip method?
I do know that in the L5R CCG, if the match would be a draw, then both players agree who should have the win; in the case they can't agree, the both are entered as a loss. That might not serve your purposes, but it's a way to avoid a coin flip.
You could combine the two; both players decide who should have the win, and if they can't agree, a coin flip decides it.
+1 for this answer.
I would hesitate to use a coin toss. Players are prohibited from randomly choosing a winner, and using a coin could give them the wrong impression.
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Then people will stall and slowplay to avoid a loss, since a tie is as good as a win.
Because they didn't win, they drew.
Look at it this way: if you are playing a regular round robin style matchups, where do the ties go? Tying players get 1 point each, not the full 3. No they aren't "out", but the chance they finish with the most points at the end is 0%.
But if you look at it as how many points have been scored against them, it would be 4, not the 6 that disqualifies everyone else. Therefore I suggest this: if they tie in the upper bracket, they move down. If they tie in the lower bracket, it isn't counted as a loss. If they tie twice, it counts as a loss in the losers bracket, so they're out. In the case of more players in one bracket compared to the other, pair someone up.
1. It allows me to express multiple thoughts without a need to write an essay or make multiple posts.
2. I tend to have multiple thoughts at the same time.
3. Having the right first opinion is sometimes more glorious than having a grammatically correct second opinion.
4. It allows you as a reader to pick out the most erroneous point and counter-comment, allowing you the chance to express an opinion and look like a sensible person when I sound like a dummy.
"In single-elimination rounds, matches may not end in a draw. If all players have equal game wins, the player with the highest life total wins the current game. In the event all players have equal life totals (or are between games and the game wins are tied), the game/match continues with an additional state-based action: if a player does not have the highest life total, he or she loses the game. Two-Headed Giant teams are treated as a single player for determining a game winner."
Regardless, this is the official method specified for this type of situation. It is the one that should be used.
Coin-flipping to determine a winner is not fair to either player, and should never be used.
In two turns life total loses, but he would win based on life total, making the best deck fortune tournament to be infinant lifegain with no real win condition.
@ your what if: there are other variables. The person gaining the life- were they stalling? Perhaps the person at 20 life is not aggressive enough and will lose the next turn.
If you understand the rules going into, have an alt win con. /clap to the winner who made changes due to the meta and rules.
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