Well, I guess we now know why starcitygames is able to pick up a team of all stars in such a short period of time. They're offering payout incentives for pros who join their team. http://www.teamstarcitygames.com/bonus-payout/
Anyways, welcome to the Dark Side, Owen Turtenwald!
The payouts and lodging just seems pretty ostentatious for them to put that kind of info on their public webpage, especially considering the entire website layout is this:
Who they are: What they Get: What they Get: Whose the Paparazzi:
I guess now I know why they charge $200 each for their Underground Seas.
Okay? The average magic player doesn't remember the team behind the pro tour victor 20 years after said pro tour. They remember the player who won it (Kai Budde, Finkel, Nassif, etc. etc.) So they're offering cash incentives. I don't really care, I just care who wins the event and don't care how much they get paid. Do people complain about football players getting paid too much? Some do, but most don't care how much Aaron Rodgers is getting paid per year. I don't generally care about other peoples financial situation as it is none of my business.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
You think hot dog sales are funding all of the NFL players salaries? That is ludicrous. Sell 1 million hot dogs at that price and you pay for 10 million in salaries assuming that's all pure profit/they cost zero dollars and they get 10 apiece for them before tax. I'll give you a hint, selling hot dogs isn't what makes the NFL a multi billion dollar revenue powerhouse. Their revenue stream comes from ticket sales first and foremost. $10 for a hot dog seems pretty fair in comparison to paying 200 dollars for a ticket to the game, just saying.
SCG selling underground sea at 200 a pop is irrelevant. They can price any card at any price, doesn't mean it will sell and if it does sell it all comes down to the consumer deciding to shell out the dough for it. They aren't holding a gun to your head saying "BUY OUR UNDERGROUND SEA'S ***** OR ELSE."
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Ticket Sales, merchandise, food, whatever. They're all overpriced.
When you have an item that was $25 four years ago now going for $130 on ebay, or $200 on starcitygames,
it seems pretty tasteless to have a webpage dedicated to showing the luxuries made from their profits.
It's not like they make it hard to find either, considering it's in huge font linked directly from their main page.
It's like saying, please buy a baseball for your kid's little league team. The price of baseballs are skyrocketing. Much of the proceeds will be given directly to Alex Rodriguez. You can watch him burn your money by clicking this link!
It's a game - you should be making the most out of it yourself instead of idolizing some people who get all of their cards for free and probably have all the time to make whatever decks they want courtesy of SCG or whoever. I couldn't care less about what history or reputation these guys have. Outside of the competitive scene I don't want to be copying deck ideas or taking advice from people who are "looking down". And I think these people being "legendary" or selling off $40 books or whatever is a bunch of advertising smoke and mirrors - you have to take into account the resources they're given. Try giving the average spike unlimited cards and free time and see how the scene changes.
I think it's a great thing. Payouts for MTG are pretty terrible as it is compared to other competitive games. SCG is doing what Wizards is failing to do.
That said I REALLY wish it didn't have to come to this. The gains SCG is going to see from having all these pro's figuring out the metagame in advance in terms of knowing what cards to snap up from their competitors, at what prices, and what cards they need to keep priced high is going to be monumental. In the end it's going to end up making Magic more expensive for everyone else.
I think it's a great thing. Payouts for MTG are pretty terrible as it is compared to other competitive games. SCG is doing what Wizards is failing to do.
That said I REALLY wish it didn't have to come to this. The gains SCG is going to see from having all these pro's figuring out the metagame in advance in terms of knowing what cards to snap up from their competitors, at what prices, and what cards they need to keep priced high is going to be monumental. In the end it's going to end up making Magic more expensive for everyone else.
I think you're placing malevolent intent where there really is none.
Just like the Pro Tour itself is, this is all advertising. In the grand scheme of things, $25,000 really is a pittance... which if you notice the way it's structured they'd never actually pay out the full $25,000... there are only 15 people on their team. A full $25,000 payout would require a player placing in every position 1-16.
And the Castle? The rooms are to let for 50-65 Euros an evening- and if you are renting the whole house you're probably even getting a break on that. (6 bedrooms- 3 bedrooms are doubles, 3 bedrooms are triples. )
That's less than a 2 star fleabag place in most major American cities, plus you get all of these pretty pictures and glowing stories.
That's super cheap PR.
This is a great example of looking like you're doing a whole lot more than you actually are, putting your dollars to their best use.
You put a big number up of money you're promising out... it's unlikely that they'll pay half that.
You have to put your people up anyways... why not make it look like you're breaking the bank. People don't fact check, and just look and see "ooooh! A castle! That's probably 5 star and super duper expensive!"
Yes, they are doing well by their people, but they are also not exactly "giving away the farm", either.
P.S. This isn't why they charge $200 on their Underground Seas... they do that because there are actually people that will pay that.
Presenting the image that you are THE dealer and THE company to go when you need cards is all in doing things like this along the way. It's ALL about image.
people forget that this is only a game. its not like, say, starcraft where its a lifestyle (and a national sport!)
anywho, my bet is that CFB will still put more players into the top 8. Plus there's tons of overlap between the two teams. you don't think prior to going, they aren't all testing together anyways?
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
This is dumb as hell. What are they really getting out of this? This is not like Starcraft in Korea where you can endorse a crap load of stuff to make money out off. The general public in any country has no idea wtf MTG is, and no idea who any of these names are. SCG trying to make a big name for themselves to a very small popluation group, I dont see how try can make any profit from this at all.
Matt Sperling is on Team SCG? Does he still write for CF (like the reverse of Kibler)? I ask because his "Sick of it" column is one of my favourites, and if it shows up on SCG Premium, I will be very sad.
Seems like a fairly trivial amount of money to drop on a little bit of extra advertising. I stayed in a castle on one visit to Europe and it was hardly expensive as someone already mentioned. Extra fun/atmosphere was well worth it imo
The $$ payouts also seem fairly trivial. 10k if your guy wins the event is chump change for them but might mean a lot for someone who is trying to make a living from MTG.
This is dumb as hell. What are they really getting out of this? This is not like Starcraft in Korea where you can endorse a crap load of stuff to make money out off. The general public in any country has no idea wtf MTG is, and no idea who any of these names are. SCG trying to make a big name for themselves to a very small popluation group, I dont see how try can make any profit from this at all.
Increased prestige for the pro tour, increased validation of their "team" as stars of the pro tour, which translates to "knowledge and expertise" that they can claim they players/writers have when they stick all of their articles behind the paywall.
When you're charging $1-4 a week per reader, you make money back on it. Not to mention getting to "build the brand", which doesn't as neatly translate into dollars, but does make people feel a whole lot more comfortable about you being a legitimate organization and thus more likely to do business with you.
Distances are generally very different for Americans. That's one thing I learned from my husband's culture shock. The thought of being able to drive across the country in a day makes it seem incredibly tiny to him.
Yep. The average American has average 25-26 minute commute. In relative terms, Ireland is the size of Indiana. When Gen Con comes to town, people are typically pretty happy to get a decent rate anywhere within about 45 minutes to an hour outside of Indianapolis... and even then you're probably looking at similar (or higher) prices than $70-90 a night that they're likely paying to stay in that castle.
Someone in this thread made a point about SCG getting insight into what will be played at the PT. I agree and I think that information is valuable. There is huge money to be made off of flipping cards that spike due to what the pro's win with.
In fact, I found myself wishing just yesterday that I could get a drop on what decks are being tested in that castle, as I would make a lot of my buy/sell decisions based on that info.
I think you're placing malevolent intent where there really is none.
It's not malevolent intent. It's business. Spend a few thousand dollars on lodging, give an increased payout to lure the top players to your side, and then use those players to get advanced information on what decks will do well. That information is extremely valuable.
To use your Underground Sea example, it's already known as a valuable card. Finding out that Temple of Deceit is the next Underground Sea or that Ashiok is the next JTMS a couple days in advance of everyone else is information that's worth thousands upon thousands of dollars because it lets them buy up supply for little money.
I'm a little surprised that people and so negative on the payouts/promotion for the top players. First off, the payouts are hardly "ostentatious ." They're fairly insignificant on an individual level, and they're literally nothing for a business. Its an extremely cheap way of saying "Hey we're SCG and we take care of people who play with us and the best players want to play under our name (please buy our stuff)." They guys that are playing professionally are making very very little. If one of these dudes hits the jackpot and pulls in another 5k, good for him.
Considering how hard to is to win a PT or a GP, the payouts in high level mtg events are kind of a joke to begin with.
This is great cheap PR and everybody wins. I don't know why people are raging about this. If you're not into competitive play, just ignore it since it has nothing to do with you.
If you ARE into competitive mtg, you should be fist pumping because as the prizes at the top increase, they can potentially start trickling down. Remember when SCG DIDN'T pay out top 64 at the opens? Yeah..
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http://www.teamstarcitygames.com/bonus-payout/
As well as 5 star lodging aka The Castle!
http://www.teamstarcitygames.com/the-castle/
How many people have jumped channelfireball to go to starcitygames now?
http://www.teamstarcitygames.com/the-team/
Here's an article on how much they enjoyed the lodging:
http://www.teamstarcitygames.com/storming-the-castle-2/
Anyways, welcome to the Dark Side, Owen Turtenwald!
The payouts and lodging just seems pretty ostentatious for them to put that kind of info on their public webpage, especially considering the entire website layout is this:
Who they are: What they Get: What they Get: Whose the Paparazzi:
I guess now I know why they charge $200 each for their Underground Seas.
Currently Playing:
Retired
SCG selling underground sea at 200 a pop is irrelevant. They can price any card at any price, doesn't mean it will sell and if it does sell it all comes down to the consumer deciding to shell out the dough for it. They aren't holding a gun to your head saying "BUY OUR UNDERGROUND SEA'S ***** OR ELSE."
Currently Playing:
Retired
When you have an item that was $25 four years ago now going for $130 on ebay, or $200 on starcitygames,
it seems pretty tasteless to have a webpage dedicated to showing the luxuries made from their profits.
It's not like they make it hard to find either, considering it's in huge font linked directly from their main page.
It's like saying, please buy a baseball for your kid's little league team. The price of baseballs are skyrocketing. Much of the proceeds will be given directly to Alex Rodriguez. You can watch him burn your money by clicking this link!
But honestly.. theres a point where your brand is already established enough that it stops being advertising and starts being just showing off.
It's a game - you should be making the most out of it yourself instead of idolizing some people who get all of their cards for free and probably have all the time to make whatever decks they want courtesy of SCG or whoever. I couldn't care less about what history or reputation these guys have. Outside of the competitive scene I don't want to be copying deck ideas or taking advice from people who are "looking down". And I think these people being "legendary" or selling off $40 books or whatever is a bunch of advertising smoke and mirrors - you have to take into account the resources they're given. Try giving the average spike unlimited cards and free time and see how the scene changes.
That said I REALLY wish it didn't have to come to this. The gains SCG is going to see from having all these pro's figuring out the metagame in advance in terms of knowing what cards to snap up from their competitors, at what prices, and what cards they need to keep priced high is going to be monumental. In the end it's going to end up making Magic more expensive for everyone else.
I think you're placing malevolent intent where there really is none.
Just like the Pro Tour itself is, this is all advertising. In the grand scheme of things, $25,000 really is a pittance... which if you notice the way it's structured they'd never actually pay out the full $25,000... there are only 15 people on their team. A full $25,000 payout would require a player placing in every position 1-16.
And the Castle? The rooms are to let for 50-65 Euros an evening- and if you are renting the whole house you're probably even getting a break on that. (6 bedrooms- 3 bedrooms are doubles, 3 bedrooms are triples. )
That's less than a 2 star fleabag place in most major American cities, plus you get all of these pretty pictures and glowing stories.
That's super cheap PR.
http://www.theposhnoshclub.com/overnights
This is a great example of looking like you're doing a whole lot more than you actually are, putting your dollars to their best use.
You put a big number up of money you're promising out... it's unlikely that they'll pay half that.
You have to put your people up anyways... why not make it look like you're breaking the bank. People don't fact check, and just look and see "ooooh! A castle! That's probably 5 star and super duper expensive!"
Yes, they are doing well by their people, but they are also not exactly "giving away the farm", either.
P.S. This isn't why they charge $200 on their Underground Seas... they do that because there are actually people that will pay that.
Presenting the image that you are THE dealer and THE company to go when you need cards is all in doing things like this along the way. It's ALL about image.
anywho, my bet is that CFB will still put more players into the top 8. Plus there's tons of overlap between the two teams. you don't think prior to going, they aren't all testing together anyways?
I don't always post about Rafiq of the Many, but when I do, I cardlink to the original artwork, and not the supplementary product version.
"I trust myself to do my duty, even unto death. It's what comes after that I'm afraid of."
"Just fight without fear. Your soul is protected by the hand of Avacyn and will never submit to evil."
The $$ payouts also seem fairly trivial. 10k if your guy wins the event is chump change for them but might mean a lot for someone who is trying to make a living from MTG.
Increased prestige for the pro tour, increased validation of their "team" as stars of the pro tour, which translates to "knowledge and expertise" that they can claim they players/writers have when they stick all of their articles behind the paywall.
When you're charging $1-4 a week per reader, you make money back on it. Not to mention getting to "build the brand", which doesn't as neatly translate into dollars, but does make people feel a whole lot more comfortable about you being a legitimate organization and thus more likely to do business with you.
Yep. The average American has average 25-26 minute commute. In relative terms, Ireland is the size of Indiana. When Gen Con comes to town, people are typically pretty happy to get a decent rate anywhere within about 45 minutes to an hour outside of Indianapolis... and even then you're probably looking at similar (or higher) prices than $70-90 a night that they're likely paying to stay in that castle.
Noah Weil on scouting, an attorney from Seattle with 20 Pro Tour appearances.
In fact, I found myself wishing just yesterday that I could get a drop on what decks are being tested in that castle, as I would make a lot of my buy/sell decisions based on that info.
Keep in mind these things are relative. When a US state is as big as a European country, an hour drive isn't really that far.
EDIT: Nath'd.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Wouldn't be anywhere near the first time it's happened.
It's not malevolent intent. It's business. Spend a few thousand dollars on lodging, give an increased payout to lure the top players to your side, and then use those players to get advanced information on what decks will do well. That information is extremely valuable.
To use your Underground Sea example, it's already known as a valuable card. Finding out that Temple of Deceit is the next Underground Sea or that Ashiok is the next JTMS a couple days in advance of everyone else is information that's worth thousands upon thousands of dollars because it lets them buy up supply for little money.
Considering how hard to is to win a PT or a GP, the payouts in high level mtg events are kind of a joke to begin with.
This is great cheap PR and everybody wins. I don't know why people are raging about this. If you're not into competitive play, just ignore it since it has nothing to do with you.
If you ARE into competitive mtg, you should be fist pumping because as the prizes at the top increase, they can potentially start trickling down. Remember when SCG DIDN'T pay out top 64 at the opens? Yeah..