By "fewer" I mean statistically a relevant difference in numbers. On average, Canadians have less players (and lower standings) at Worlds than France, Germany and even Japan.
As someone who hasn't studied the Magic communities of these countries as deeply as others, I'm just looking for more information. One would think that Canadians would perform better (and have higher turnouts) simply due to their proximity to the US and shared language of English.
What am I missing?
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I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Canadians are actually some of the best Magic players in the world, but when most of them go to a GP they are just too polite to crush their opponents.
I'd love to make a "Canadians are nice" joke, but it looks like I got beat to it.
I think it's just a matter of numbers. Canada, despite being large in area, has a comparatively small population. Maybe there's fewer Canadian Magic players because there's fewer Canadians?
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Retrodrome!
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
There are few major metropolitan areas in Canada, and they are equally spread apart across the country, which is very, very big.
While I'm from Chicago, I can easily drive to Indianapolis, madison, or even Cleveland for a magic tournament, but for someone in Canada, driving from Vancouver to Toronto is pretty far.
For me, too busy with EDH, havent looked at my points in ages, and yet, rules fanatic.
Not sure if it's a broadly shared opinion, but I play for fun and socialization, I'm not interested in tournaments and standings. A good number of my local playgroup would likely agree.
Population of France: 60 million
Population of Germany: 90 million
Population of Japan: 125 million
Population of Canada: 35 million
There aren't very many of us
This.
Here's a list of everyone who's earned at least 100 lifetime Pro Points. France, Japan, and Canada (and the US) all have about one such player per 4 million people. In Germany, it's actually worse (1 per 6 million).
The only countries that do much better -- and have enough players on the list for it not to be a total statistical fluke -- are some small mostly-northern European countries (Sweden, Belgium, the Netherlands, and the Czech Republic).
This might seem like a joke, but the best players I know in my area are Legacy players who don't really play other formats competitively. There are a number of people who play Modern/Standard/Limited at a competitive level, but it seems like those players are relatively few and far between. Granted, the Metro Vancouver area doesn't represent all of Canada, but still.
There are few major metropolitan areas in Canada, and they are equally spread apart across the country, which is very, very big.
While I'm from Chicago, I can easily drive to Indianapolis, madison, or even Cleveland for a magic tournament, but for someone in Canada, driving from Vancouver to Toronto is pretty far.
This is, I think, very relevant.
Sure you can get from Toronto to Montreal in about 6 hours but other major cities like Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton are literally several days of driving to reach. Plane tickets are expensive, and crossing the border into the USA is becoming more and more of a hassle (but it's certainly doable).
Also, SCG doesn't hold events in Canada. Between this and how expensive it is to travel in Canada compared to in Europe, there are way fewer easily-accessible events for Canadian players.
Also, SCG doesn't hold events in Canada. Between this and how expensive it is to travel in Canada compared to in Europe, there are way fewer easily-accessible events for Canadian players.
Large events in Metro Vancouver are like... there was a GP a year or two ago, and there's the odd PTQ and GPT, but beyond that, there's really nothing at all.
The non-sanctioned huge Legacy events around here every few months honestly feel like the biggest events to be had. And the last one only had like a 30 person turnout (granted, 30 high-tier Legacy decks, but still).
There is a pretty significant competitive community in my area. People from this area regularly top 8 GPs and are on and off the pro tour. I mean someone from the area just came 3rd at GP Detroit. I this is just considering the local Ottawa area, without taking Montreal into account, which is basically the same community of people.
I know its not like this everywhere but Ottawa/Montreal area has one of the biggest competitive magic communities that I have seen.
As other people noted I think travel is the biggest one. You need a passport, and be willing to travel a minimum of 4 hours just for a GP. There are so few GP's in Canada that it is a bit silly trying to get to that level. Toronto and Montreal really need 1 GP a year each.
I always thought there were plenty of players in Canada. I live in a border town and there are always PTQ's in Southern Ontario that are better attended than the ones in the US. *shrug* A lot of guys like the fact that you can drink at 19 in Canada and some venues have bars on site. So maybe there are just a ton of drunk Americans there.
I haven't played in other cities, but Montreal definitely has some healthy competition, and I can think of at least ten stores on the island right off the top of my head.
All the best players migrate to Face to Face games which recently renovated and expanded their store. I don't know about modern, legacy or edh because I don't play those particular formats there, but drafts and standard events always bring in a very healthy crowd, and the midnight Theros prerelease which I attended there had 95 players. Suffice it to say there's no lack of players or competition.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
Why aren't people concerned with the player base of the two most populous countries, India and China? I mean, if we're meant to compare the amount of competitive players versus the population.
Actually, my point was never that Canada had a slow playerbase for its population. My point was that Canada appeared to have a small playerbase compared to its location. I see now that traveling in Canada is a lot harder than traveling in the US.
Also, China and India are completely different cultures from any North American country. Cracking those market is a challenge for several industries, even Hollywood. WotC is lucky to even have a presence in those countries.
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I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
As other people noted I think travel is the biggest one. You need a passport, and be willing to travel a minimum of 4 hours just for a GP. There are so few GP's in Canada that it is a bit silly trying to get to that level. Toronto and Montreal really need 1 GP a year each.
We probably don't have the population to warrant it (and admittedly I don't pay much attention to the GP scene), but I would expect Canada to at least have 1 "eastern" and 1 "western" GP a year as a minimum. Montreal and Toronto could easily alternate each year for the Eastern slot. As for the west, the obvious choices would be for Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary to rotate.
A third GP would probably be making Montreal and Toronto both run annually, and a 4th would let Vancouver stand alone while Alberta's cities alternate.
Maybe if F2F (or another Canadian company) grows big enough, they could start running Tournies similar to Star Cities, to give Canadians more Big Event options at smaller cities (Halifax, Saint John's, Winnipeg, etc....)
Maybe if F2F (or another Canadian company) grows big enough, they could start running Tournies similar to Star Cities, to give Canadians more Big Event options at smaller cities (Halifax, Saint John's, Winnipeg, etc....)
Face to Face's tournament series, the Mana Deprived Super Series, is pretty similar to SCG's already. It's just not as big. In Toronto we got ~120 competitors for MDSS. It was still a hell of a time, though.
I should also add that Toronto at least has a TON of casual players and grinders. In Toronto this weekend there was (IIRC) a 270-person prerelease this weekend, mostly players from the city and the casual crowd. And for PTQ, events that people will travel to, we got 360 people. It's just harder for grinders to move up to the next level here, because of the geography.
yeah Alex Hayne made a splash for a bit but Canadians really can't seem to break in consistently.
I think there are a few factors.
Geography is a big one. Not having the SCG Open is another (seriously, why don't they expand up here!!).
Not having a big Canadian retailer is another. I really don't like FtF's website layout, and the stock is rather...meh compared to SCG. SCG is incredibily awesome to deal with, so despite having a much larger shipping cost, I always shop there.
The othe issue is that we don't have American-style teams up here for the most part, and those that we do, play Legacy (which is awesome) instead of Standard or Modern.
It's getting better, but meh, what can you do? Oh that's right - CUBE!
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"A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."
- Willy Wonka
The Quote function doesn't work for me on this forum. Sorry for any confusion created.
Formerly operating under the moniker Mana Deprived, our Canadian-based professional team is now bearing the name of its corporate sponsor and our partner in crime, Face to Face Games. The team, through past challenges and victories (hallelujah!), has matured over the course of a few Pro Tours and has reformed itself with a renewed focus on success. With this renewed focus comes a roster sculpted specifically to fill the roles required by the team to operate efficiently and to master both Theros booster draft and post-Theros Standard constructed in the weeks before the Pro Tour.
At the center of the team we have Alexander Hayne, David Caplan, and Jon Stern who are responsible for much of the organization and decision-making. The rest of team Face to Face is rounded out with a cast of players from across Canada and the United States, including perennial PTQ-winner Pascal Maynard, repeat offenders Matthias Hunt and (GP Detroit winner) Josh McClain, control specialist David Shiels, and Channel Fireball-affiliates Jacob Wilson and Sam Pardee. For a more well-rounded look at each of our pro team’s new members see their detailed profiles below.
There is a pretty significant competitive community in my area. People from this area regularly top 8 GPs and are on and off the pro tour. I mean someone from the area just came 3rd at GP Detroit. I this is just considering the local Ottawa area, without taking Montreal into account, which is basically the same community of people.
I know its not like this everywhere but Ottawa/Montreal area has one of the biggest competitive magic communities that I have seen.
I have to second this, I see pretty good turn outs at tournaments and plenty of health competition in the Ottawa Area.
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As someone who hasn't studied the Magic communities of these countries as deeply as others, I'm just looking for more information. One would think that Canadians would perform better (and have higher turnouts) simply due to their proximity to the US and shared language of English.
What am I missing?
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
I think it's just a matter of numbers. Canada, despite being large in area, has a comparatively small population. Maybe there's fewer Canadian Magic players because there's fewer Canadians?
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
Legacy > Planeswalker points
While I'm from Chicago, I can easily drive to Indianapolis, madison, or even Cleveland for a magic tournament, but for someone in Canada, driving from Vancouver to Toronto is pretty far.
Population of Germany: 90 million
Population of Japan: 125 million
Population of Canada: 35 million
There aren't very many of us
Not sure if it's a broadly shared opinion, but I play for fun and socialization, I'm not interested in tournaments and standings. A good number of my local playgroup would likely agree.
This.
Here's a list of everyone who's earned at least 100 lifetime Pro Points. France, Japan, and Canada (and the US) all have about one such player per 4 million people. In Germany, it's actually worse (1 per 6 million).
The only countries that do much better -- and have enough players on the list for it not to be a total statistical fluke -- are some small mostly-northern European countries (Sweden, Belgium, the Netherlands, and the Czech Republic).
This might seem like a joke, but the best players I know in my area are Legacy players who don't really play other formats competitively. There are a number of people who play Modern/Standard/Limited at a competitive level, but it seems like those players are relatively few and far between. Granted, the Metro Vancouver area doesn't represent all of Canada, but still.
This is, I think, very relevant.
Sure you can get from Toronto to Montreal in about 6 hours but other major cities like Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton are literally several days of driving to reach. Plane tickets are expensive, and crossing the border into the USA is becoming more and more of a hassle (but it's certainly doable).
Large events in Metro Vancouver are like... there was a GP a year or two ago, and there's the odd PTQ and GPT, but beyond that, there's really nothing at all.
The non-sanctioned huge Legacy events around here every few months honestly feel like the biggest events to be had. And the last one only had like a 30 person turnout (granted, 30 high-tier Legacy decks, but still).
I know its not like this everywhere but Ottawa/Montreal area has one of the biggest competitive magic communities that I have seen.
Standard - N/A
Modern - Infect, Scapeshift
Legacy - TES, High Tide
All the best players migrate to Face to Face games which recently renovated and expanded their store. I don't know about modern, legacy or edh because I don't play those particular formats there, but drafts and standard events always bring in a very healthy crowd, and the midnight Theros prerelease which I attended there had 95 players. Suffice it to say there's no lack of players or competition.
Actually, my point was never that Canada had a slow playerbase for its population. My point was that Canada appeared to have a small playerbase compared to its location. I see now that traveling in Canada is a lot harder than traveling in the US.
Also, China and India are completely different cultures from any North American country. Cracking those market is a challenge for several industries, even Hollywood. WotC is lucky to even have a presence in those countries.
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
We probably don't have the population to warrant it (and admittedly I don't pay much attention to the GP scene), but I would expect Canada to at least have 1 "eastern" and 1 "western" GP a year as a minimum. Montreal and Toronto could easily alternate each year for the Eastern slot. As for the west, the obvious choices would be for Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary to rotate.
A third GP would probably be making Montreal and Toronto both run annually, and a 4th would let Vancouver stand alone while Alberta's cities alternate.
Maybe if F2F (or another Canadian company) grows big enough, they could start running Tournies similar to Star Cities, to give Canadians more Big Event options at smaller cities (Halifax, Saint John's, Winnipeg, etc....)
Face to Face's tournament series, the Mana Deprived Super Series, is pretty similar to SCG's already. It's just not as big. In Toronto we got ~120 competitors for MDSS. It was still a hell of a time, though.
I should also add that Toronto at least has a TON of casual players and grinders. In Toronto this weekend there was (IIRC) a 270-person prerelease this weekend, mostly players from the city and the casual crowd. And for PTQ, events that people will travel to, we got 360 people. It's just harder for grinders to move up to the next level here, because of the geography.
I think there are a few factors.
Geography is a big one. Not having the SCG Open is another (seriously, why don't they expand up here!!).
Not having a big Canadian retailer is another. I really don't like FtF's website layout, and the stock is rather...meh compared to SCG. SCG is incredibily awesome to deal with, so despite having a much larger shipping cost, I always shop there.
The othe issue is that we don't have American-style teams up here for the most part, and those that we do, play Legacy (which is awesome) instead of Standard or Modern.
It's getting better, but meh, what can you do? Oh that's right - CUBE!
- Willy Wonka
The Quote function doesn't work for me on this forum. Sorry for any confusion created.
Introducing Team Face to Face
Introducing Team Face to Face
Formerly operating under the moniker Mana Deprived, our Canadian-based professional team is now bearing the name of its corporate sponsor and our partner in crime, Face to Face Games. The team, through past challenges and victories (hallelujah!), has matured over the course of a few Pro Tours and has reformed itself with a renewed focus on success. With this renewed focus comes a roster sculpted specifically to fill the roles required by the team to operate efficiently and to master both Theros booster draft and post-Theros Standard constructed in the weeks before the Pro Tour.
At the center of the team we have Alexander Hayne, David Caplan, and Jon Stern who are responsible for much of the organization and decision-making. The rest of team Face to Face is rounded out with a cast of players from across Canada and the United States, including perennial PTQ-winner Pascal Maynard, repeat offenders Matthias Hunt and (GP Detroit winner) Josh McClain, control specialist David Shiels, and Channel Fireball-affiliates Jacob Wilson and Sam Pardee. For a more well-rounded look at each of our pro team’s new members see their detailed profiles below.
I have to second this, I see pretty good turn outs at tournaments and plenty of health competition in the Ottawa Area.