Thoughtseize

  • #26
    Quote from senordirtyrat
    Well, it's not quite Morgan Freeman, but I get the picture. BTW, don't people use Dark Ritual anymore in the older formats? Also, to me, Duress becomes a better option when you have bills that take higher priority than a $25 disruption card. I can understand the being able to discard a creature concept...but there are removal spells for that, too...man, a lot has changed these last ten years...


    You can. Using dark ritual to play hymn, especially if you're not using that other Lana to play, well, thoughtseize, is a 2 for 2, and is lackluster. On the draw, dark ritual, thoughtseize sinkhole is pretty good.

    The fact is, if you're going to bring 'i have bills to pay' into the equation then you really can't afford to play tournament magic. High level tournament magic is expensive. It's a hobby, and hobbies cost money.

    If you don't want to buy thoughtseize at $25, then saying it shouldn't be that price because it 'feels like a $5 card' in your opinion isn't going to change things. In the minds of everyone else it's worth $25, and as such it is $25.

    If you don't like it, don't play it, but don't expect other people to say there are better options in any circumstances, because as far as targeted spot removal there are not.
  • #27
    Quote from senordirtyrat
    I can understand the being able to discard a creature concept...but there are removal spells for that, too...man, a lot has changed these last ten years...

    People have pretty much spelled it out already, but one thing that I will add is that "comes into play" effects on creatures have gotten much more common and powerful than they used to be. Discard and Counters are only ways to keep the most powerful of those from urinating in your Kool-Aid, and wizards has been powering down counters for some time now.
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  • #28
    Because you get to take their best non-land card every time without restrictions. 2 life is a steal to be able to do this.
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  • #29
    Quote from DrWorm
    People have pretty much spelled it out already, but one thing that I will add is that "comes into play" effects on creatures have gotten much more common and powerful than they used to be. Discard and Counters are only ways to keep the most powerful of those from urinating in your Kool-Aid, and wizards has been powering down counters for some time now.


    This.

    I almost forgot about ETB triggers. Try using removal on their Thragtusk once it hits the battlefield. They already get so much value by gaining 5 life and getting 2 bodies, no matter how you remove it. Thoughtseize can take care of that for you.
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  • #30
    Quote from Magique
    Because you get to take their best non-land card every time without restrictions. 2 life is a steal to be able to do this.

    Thumbs Up

    Two life is a small price to pay to avoid getting Show and Tell on Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Goryo's Vengeance on Griselbrand. There's a (very) few amount of decks that Thoughtseize will not be too good against, but it makes up for it with sheer power vs. others (the majority).

    P.S. - I'm surprised this thread is this long (although I did contribute to this).
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  • #31
    Quote from Bacl
    I would expect the price to continue to drop as more and more become available over the next year.


    While this is possible, I wouldn't be surprised to see it stabilize at $20 and just stay there. It's a 4 of if you play it, and lots of people are going to play it.
  • #32
    Thoughtseize is amazing. Sucks against my current Modern deck, and my legacy deck for that matter, but the card is the nuts.
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  • #33
    One thing to have in mind about Thoughtseize, as I told someone who opened two today and had it damage him more than his opponents, is that it's only as valuable as what may be on your opponent's hand.

    Back two months when Falkenrath Aristocrat, Thragtusk, Restoration Angel, Geist and Tiago were in standard it would have been more valuable than any of them, extremely hard to answer cards. Nowadays I do see it falling to $100-$150 because while modern and legacy will want it as much as ever, Duress hits all the hard to answer cards of the new T2 without damage so Thoughtseize may be only a 2 of or sideboard card in T2.
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  • #34
    Quote from Stroggoii
    One thing to have in mind about Thoughtseize, as I told someone who opened two today and had it damage him more than his opponents, is that it's only as valuable as what may be on your opponent's hand.
    That is not bad logic, and it seems that would make it a poor card in Limited in general, but then I don't play Limited.
    GaJo
    tumblr: thewormturns
    MTGO: Dr Worm
    EDH: Earl, Ghaiji Aggro, Snow Patrol, Shirei, Eeshatron, Momir Big, What's Yours is Mine, Punisher
    Modern: Red Snow Devotion, X-Force, Black Devotion Control
    Currently Testing: Fever Dream

    ؟ is the "Irony Mark", but since no one seems to be able to use the term "irony" correctly, I hereby dub it the "Sarcasm Mark."
  • #35
    Quote from Stroggoii
    One thing to have in mind about Thoughtseize, as I told someone who opened two today and had it damage him more than his opponents, is that it's only as valuable as what may be on your opponent's hand.

    Back two months when Falkenrath Aristocrat, Thragtusk, Restoration Angel, Geist and Tiago were in standard it would have been more valuable than any of them, extremely hard to answer cards. Nowadays I do see it falling to $100-$150 because while modern and legacy will want it as much as ever, Duress hits all the hard to answer cards of the new T2 without damage so Thoughtseize may be only a 2 of or sideboard card in T2.


    Duress says 'non creature', which means it doesn't hit enchantment creatures.

    Also, duress doesn't get rid of bombs before they hit the battle field.

    Duress is a powerful card, but I would run 4x thoughtseize main deck, and maybe 2 duress on the board, never the other way around.

    2 life isn't a problem.
  • #36
    Quote from Quacker
    While this is possible, I wouldn't be surprised to see it stabilize at $20 and just stay there. It's a 4 of if you play it, and lots of people are going to play it.


    Oh no, if anything Thoughtseize is a great investment because after this initial dip (and dip it shall) the card has nowhere to go but up. It's played in all formats, considered the top of its class, and likely not to be reprinted again for a long, long time.

    Down it shall continue to drop...somewhat, then rise it shall. Those people unloading their Lorwynn Thoughtseizes at a loss may regret doing so in about 2 years.
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