We've all been there. The night where the deck is great, but you can't seem to draw a good hand.
After moving across the country, I had a very bad streak with Magic. It lead me to hate the Scars of Mirrodin block, but I now blame that on not learning the draft format properly. Up until recently, I'd had a very bad run playing limited. Most nights, it seemed like I would win the first two rounds, and then not be able to draw a decent hand the next two rounds.
Three weeks ago, I thought I'd broken that streak. I drafted nearly monored dragons (first pick Scourge of Valkas woo) with a splashing of Slivers (second pick Thorncaster Sliver woo). I went 4-1. Last week, I was able to put together Angelic Accord black/white, went 4-1 again, my only loss being to an amazing game 3 that came down to both of us at 1 life and me being unable to draw a Festering Newt or Gnawing Zombie.
I was jazzed to play sealed this week. My deck seemed great; awesome curve, 3 Shocks, even between black and red, and 17 lands. I played 4 games, unable to draw a 3rd land 3 games in a row. It feels like I'm back to square one here.
I'm frustrated. I'm incredibly frustrated. I can learn from a poor play. I can't learn from drawing no lands.
Or can I?
I don't believe in a higher power or that the universe is against me; whatever happens, it should be something I can do to make my situation better. I'm posting here to see what I can do. Generally, I pile shuffle between games plus a couple of standard shuffles. What else is there to do? Is there anything?
TL;DR: I hate losing to mana screw. What can I do to prevent it?
Absolutely nothing. If you do anything to try & smooth out your land drops, or ensure there's a certain card coming with certainty, it's cheating. Land screw & clumps are normal, & part of randomisation.
Just seems like luck isn't on your side a lot of the time. Happens to a lot of people, me included. It'll pass. The way you say you're shuffling is fine, as long as you don't know what's going where.
I cry a little bit every time one of my creatures goes to the graveyard. I also take a few minutes to talk about their time on the battlefield, and typically say a few words of remembrance. You know, what kinds of sleeves they liked, what decks they liked being in. That sort of thing. Nothing too over the top.
Here's what I'm getting at, though. What's good shuffling versus bad shuffling? What determines them?
Good shuffling is randomizing enough so that you can't have any way to know what's where even in the slightest. Similarly, good randomization -does- have clumps, but not always, nor anywhere predictably so. A good shuffle does not mean lands are evenly distributed.
Math has been done, and for a 60 card deck, 7-8 riffle shuffles (or a pretty good mash), will be enough to be deemed mathematically random. Pile shuffling does not randomize and should never be done by itself.
What sheets (if any) are you using? I refuse to run anuthing other than ultra pro with textured backs. Had a run of about 10 months that i just couldnt get a break on draws. Turns out it was the sticky sheets (dragon sheilds) they would clump regardless of the shuffle type i did.
What sheets (if any) are you using? I refuse to run anuthing other than ultra pro with textured backs. Had a run of about 10 months that i just couldnt get a break on draws. Turns out it was the sticky sheets (dragon sheilds) they would clump regardless of the shuffle type i did.
Far less issues since i switched.
I thought I was the only one who thought exactly this same thing! Its definitly important to have sleeves that actually dont stick together for there to be true randomizaion.
Ultimately, if your really randomizing well, I'd have to also second the whole luck is just not on your side kinda thing. If I remember correctly, luck usually plays a bigger role in limited draws, so if the fates arn't favoring you, that might be the format to hold off on.
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"Until you have lived as a statue, do not talk to me of pigeons."
—Karn, silver golem
cheat. its what everyone does with paper. Piling once and shuffling does a good job of unclumping lands after a game. See what works for you. But play online and youll notice everyone elses opening hands are a lot worse.
Another option is to always play an 18th land. Assuming you're properly randomizing your deck (7-8 riffle shuffles, as was suggested earlier), sometimes you just need that extra land. It makes you more liable to flooding, but flooding is better than screw.
TL;DR: I hate losing to mana screw. What can I do to prevent it?
Some nights are just off nights. Tonight I got to do triple RTR draft, and drafted one of my favorite decktypes BWG, and I lost out to a player just because of drawing lands turn after turn after turn.
Happens. Pro Tour players often have to go to multiple events for Top 8 places, that's why it's impressive when one person top 8s a Pro Tour, but increasingly impressive when it happens over and over again.
How about don't draft or do seal differently because of a little bad luck. Don't start adding lands because of a few times. God I had 17 lands in my draft deck friday, three different games I drew 11 lands and 2-4 spells. You can't win those theres no skill there. Ideally you should have 16 creatures, 8 spells, and 16 lands. Adjust accordingly to your strategy and mana curve but anyone just starting that's what I tell them.
Last two drafts before this friday I went 4-1-0 both times. I pile shuffle once then riffle and chop shuffle half a dozen times. With tinier decks you can easily get screwed over. Those 3 games were incredibly aggravating but it was twice as rewarding to bust a the Shadowborn Demon or Act of Treason to win the game imminently, especially at 3 health.
1) Use good, non-sticky sleeves. UltraPro is my sleeve of choice. I've had opponents shuffle my deck and note how they liked the way they shuffle. I think UP is very underrated.
2) Shuffle a lot. A LOT.
3) Learn to mulligan better. It is not as simple as counting the number of lands and spells in hand.
4) Double check your deck with the people who beat you. Maybe your curve or card choices aren't as good as you think they are.
5) Don't be afraid to play 41 cards for an extra land. Sometimes I think it's just the right choice.
Does anyone have a resource for mulliganing? I actually didn't draw one hand the night in question that I considered keepable; I mulled down to 5 cards twice, and kept two-or-three landers. Generally, I was not keeping hands with 2 lands because I wanted to; it was because I didn't want to take 4 cards on the play.
Play a format with more powerful draw and library manipulation spells. Most legacy control decks get by with 21-22 lands, with tempo, aggro, and combo having fewer than that. Mono-green stompy in pauper gets by with as few as 10 lands (appropriately called 10 land stompy), and mono-U delver only needs around 14. You can also run dorks, or ramp to get those lands out. They can do so because of the draw and ramp spells that are available in those formats, which incidentally lets them function a lot more consistently in general.
If you're getting land screwed, it's at least partly a function of your deck construction, and the tools you have available to you as a deckbuilder. Making use of tools that can mitigate land screw will also help your deck function in other ways, such as thinning it, and letting you shuffle to redistribute everything. In those kinds of decks, hitting your first land makes it easier to get to the second, which makes it easier to hit your third, and so on. The land becomes redundant after a while unless you're fighting through wasteland or other land destruction spells.
This isn't really an option in standard and limited, but you can do it to an extent in Modern (run green, use expedition map etc.), and in legacy and pauper, most colours have ways of ensuring land and draw consistency. It comes down to the type of game that you prefer playing.
If he's playing 17 lands and I assume he was on the play at least 1 time during those 3 games.
...he should auto-mull 2-landers? That is nuts and will lead him in the wrong direction.
A 2-lander with a bunch of late game stuff? Sure. But there are plenty of good two land hands, where you have some play and are better off keeping than going to 6 in hope of 3+ lands.
I mean really think about it. Say you go to 6, how likely are you to be better off? Maybe you get lucky and get that perfect 3/3 split you are looking for (and some of the 3 are early game cards). But more often than not you get 2/4, 4/2, etc...and are no better off than you were before, just now you are down a card.
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After moving across the country, I had a very bad streak with Magic. It lead me to hate the Scars of Mirrodin block, but I now blame that on not learning the draft format properly. Up until recently, I'd had a very bad run playing limited. Most nights, it seemed like I would win the first two rounds, and then not be able to draw a decent hand the next two rounds.
Three weeks ago, I thought I'd broken that streak. I drafted nearly monored dragons (first pick Scourge of Valkas woo) with a splashing of Slivers (second pick Thorncaster Sliver woo). I went 4-1. Last week, I was able to put together Angelic Accord black/white, went 4-1 again, my only loss being to an amazing game 3 that came down to both of us at 1 life and me being unable to draw a Festering Newt or Gnawing Zombie.
I was jazzed to play sealed this week. My deck seemed great; awesome curve, 3 Shocks, even between black and red, and 17 lands. I played 4 games, unable to draw a 3rd land 3 games in a row. It feels like I'm back to square one here.
I'm frustrated. I'm incredibly frustrated. I can learn from a poor play. I can't learn from drawing no lands.
Or can I?
I don't believe in a higher power or that the universe is against me; whatever happens, it should be something I can do to make my situation better. I'm posting here to see what I can do. Generally, I pile shuffle between games plus a couple of standard shuffles. What else is there to do? Is there anything?
TL;DR: I hate losing to mana screw. What can I do to prevent it?
When in doubt, call a judge.
Objectivist here. Hit me up to talk philosophy.
Just seems like luck isn't on your side a lot of the time. Happens to a lot of people, me included. It'll pass. The way you say you're shuffling is fine, as long as you don't know what's going where.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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Here's what I'm getting at, though. What's good shuffling versus bad shuffling? What determines them?
When in doubt, call a judge.
Objectivist here. Hit me up to talk philosophy.
Math has been done, and for a 60 card deck, 7-8 riffle shuffles (or a pretty good mash), will be enough to be deemed mathematically random. Pile shuffling does not randomize and should never be done by itself.
Far less issues since i switched.
Grammar is the difference between knowing your ****, and knowing you're ****.
This. Mulligans suck, but not being able to play your cards sucks more.
I thought I was the only one who thought exactly this same thing! Its definitly important to have sleeves that actually dont stick together for there to be true randomizaion.
If the OP wants to know how complex his question about randomization really is he should check out this thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=503439&page=1
Ultimately, if your really randomizing well, I'd have to also second the whole luck is just not on your side kinda thing. If I remember correctly, luck usually plays a bigger role in limited draws, so if the fates arn't favoring you, that might be the format to hold off on.
—Karn, silver golem
Some nights are just off nights. Tonight I got to do triple RTR draft, and drafted one of my favorite decktypes BWG, and I lost out to a player just because of drawing lands turn after turn after turn.
Happens. Pro Tour players often have to go to multiple events for Top 8 places, that's why it's impressive when one person top 8s a Pro Tour, but increasingly impressive when it happens over and over again.
Mulligan all two landers...is absolutely terrible advice.
Better advice: Accept the fact that there is a large luck component in Magic and instead focus on the things you can control.
If he's playing 17 lands and I assume he was on the play at least 1 time during those 3 games.
Manipulating your deck is cheating, but adding more land and/or making better mulligan decisions is a great way to smooth out your land drops.
Knowing when to mulligan is probably the #1 improvement most players can make.
Mulligan all hands where you cant play most of it.. "This hand would be great when I draw a mountain" is an awful reason to keep a hand.
Some decks and some hands dont mind only two lands, but in general, dont keep two land hands. Mulliganing is not bad.
Last two drafts before this friday I went 4-1-0 both times. I pile shuffle once then riffle and chop shuffle half a dozen times. With tinier decks you can easily get screwed over. Those 3 games were incredibly aggravating but it was twice as rewarding to bust a the Shadowborn Demon or Act of Treason to win the game imminently, especially at 3 health.
1) Use good, non-sticky sleeves. UltraPro is my sleeve of choice. I've had opponents shuffle my deck and note how they liked the way they shuffle. I think UP is very underrated.
2) Shuffle a lot. A LOT.
3) Learn to mulligan better. It is not as simple as counting the number of lands and spells in hand.
4) Double check your deck with the people who beat you. Maybe your curve or card choices aren't as good as you think they are.
5) Don't be afraid to play 41 cards for an extra land. Sometimes I think it's just the right choice.
Does anyone have a resource for mulliganing? I actually didn't draw one hand the night in question that I considered keepable; I mulled down to 5 cards twice, and kept two-or-three landers. Generally, I was not keeping hands with 2 lands because I wanted to; it was because I didn't want to take 4 cards on the play.
When in doubt, call a judge.
Objectivist here. Hit me up to talk philosophy.
If you're getting land screwed, it's at least partly a function of your deck construction, and the tools you have available to you as a deckbuilder. Making use of tools that can mitigate land screw will also help your deck function in other ways, such as thinning it, and letting you shuffle to redistribute everything. In those kinds of decks, hitting your first land makes it easier to get to the second, which makes it easier to hit your third, and so on. The land becomes redundant after a while unless you're fighting through wasteland or other land destruction spells.
This isn't really an option in standard and limited, but you can do it to an extent in Modern (run green, use expedition map etc.), and in legacy and pauper, most colours have ways of ensuring land and draw consistency. It comes down to the type of game that you prefer playing.
...he should auto-mull 2-landers? That is nuts and will lead him in the wrong direction.
A 2-lander with a bunch of late game stuff? Sure. But there are plenty of good two land hands, where you have some play and are better off keeping than going to 6 in hope of 3+ lands.
I mean really think about it. Say you go to 6, how likely are you to be better off? Maybe you get lucky and get that perfect 3/3 split you are looking for (and some of the 3 are early game cards). But more often than not you get 2/4, 4/2, etc...and are no better off than you were before, just now you are down a card.