To quote the IM bringing this thread to my attention: "Go go gadget disinformation!"
At it's simplest: The player who was involved in the incident with Todd was spoken to by the event staff and informed that further incidents would result in his removal and possible a possible ban from future events. The player has not been banned, but any future incidents will be viewed in light of his previous behavior.
In the future, if you hear something about StarCityGames from an unofficial source, feel free to ping me on Twitter @JaredSylva to clear things up.
Update added to OP, thread title changed to reflect such
It's widely known that [EDH] is very broken. Building a superdeck is quite easy. So what defines you as a player is [...] how you show restraint and creativity while still remaining a competitive player and a good sport.
the only problem with urza is that he is an oldwalker, so its abilities would be like:
+3: remove up to ten target permanents from the play
-2: win the game
-8: kick your opponents in the face, then win the game
starting loyalty: 100
Context is key here. Ripping up tokens: not inherently ban-worthy. Aggressive behavior: may be ban-worthy, very much a "you had to be there" thing.
SCG's reaction seems to me like it at least could be within reasonable bounds of their discretion as a tournament organizer, so I'm not inclined to quibble. Guy sounds like a real charmer, and I can't fault a tournament organizer for preferring that he not be around.
SCG over reacted. Was the guy a tool for doing what he did? Yes he was. I didnt know destroying your own tokens was bannable. I dont care whos feelings you hurt while ripping them up.
I heard about this a couple hours ago and almost made a thread about it then. Personally I think it's completely called for to ban the guy, it was a jerk move just to try and get your name out there. Having personally met Todd Anderson in the past I can say he was and still is one of the nicest magic players I've ever had the opportunity of meeting. In fact if it wasn't for his help writing me out a decklist I might have missed the chance to compete in the Sunday PTQ the weekend of GP: Columbus 2010. The guy that did this knows that he has never been and will never be at the grinder level Todd has achieved over the years and did this just so people would remember him for something, but failed to realize how much it would backfire on him. SCG did what they should have done, banned him indefinitely.
SCG over reacted. Was the guy a tool for doing what he did? Yes he was. I didnt know destroying your own tokens was bannable. I dont care whos feelings you hurt while ripping them up.
No. It's not just that.
He deliberately went to Todd, got him to sign the tokens, then ripped them up in his face (unknown whether he then threw them). It's intentional asshattery, and to a main personality (AND EMPLOYEE) for SCG. They had every right to kick him out and ban him. No one wants that garbage at a fun, friendly event.
Dire Wombat is right on the money. He didn't get banned for ripping up tokens, he got banned for demonstrating aggressive behavior. He was trying to create a tense situation.
Todd's response is also irrelevant because SCG as an event organiser, has the job to make sure a smooth event happens. Not to accommodate *******s.
SCG obviously must ban him, because if they don't what kind of example do they set? The guy was the cancer in the room and he had to be removed.
He deliberately went to Todd, got him to sign the tokens, then ripped them up in his face (unknown whether he then threw them). It's intentional asshattery, and to a main personality (AND EMPLOYEE) for SCG. They had every right to kick him out and ban him. No one wants that garbage at a fun, friendly event.
None of that seems bannable. He didnt rip up someone elses cards, he did not assault anyone, he didnt steal any thing, didnt cheat at the game. People say worse things to Todd on Twitter about his write ups on SCG. It really is not that big of a deal. SCG and Todd are making way too much out of it.
Quote from Tormod »
he got banned for demonstrating aggressive behavior.
What!!! So acting aggressive is a bannable offense? If that was true the player base should be about half of what it is. No one was hurt except for Todds feelings, and like I said above people say worse on Twitter about his write up on SCG.
Also curious about your opinion, Sveinung, given you're a high level player yourself.
I personally think that it is good for the community to punish those who go out of their way to be jerks at Magic events, and that we don't do this enough. I think it's a good thing that SCG did what they did; it sets an example and a precedent.
Fair or not fair isn't really relevant, it's SCG's event, they are a private organization, they can ban someone from their event for whatever reason they want. I could certainly understand why they wouldn't want someone like that participating in their events.
He deliberately went to Todd, got him to sign the tokens, then ripped them up in his face (unknown whether he then threw them). It's intentional asshattery, and to a main personality (AND EMPLOYEE) for SCG. They had every right to kick him out and ban him. No one wants that garbage at a fun, friendly event.
This seriously. If someone were to treat someone who worked for us that way, with no provocation, then yeah, I'm sorry, but you wont be allowed back again. The right to refuse service to anyone certainly applies here. You want to act like that, then you can deal with the consequences and go somewhere else to play.
EDIT: @ Bocephus: He wasn't banned from magic, for the record, he was banned from SCG's own events. As a private business they have every right to ban someone from their events if they have shown the type of poor behavior that this person showed. No one, period, has a right to be able to act like a jerk without there being consequences for their actions. Certainly glad our community doesn't tolerate that sort of behavior either.
None of that seems bannable. He didnt rip up someone elses cards, he did not assault anyone, he didnt steal any thing, didnt cheat at the game. People say worse things to Todd on Twitter about his write ups on SCG. It really is not that big of a deal. SCG and Todd are making way too much out of it.
What!!! So acting aggressive is a bannable offense? If that was true the player base should be about half of what it is. No one was hurt except for Todds feelings, and like I said above people say worse on Twitter about his write up on SCG.
Complete over reaction to the situation.
No one knows how Todd reacted, so stop assuming he reacted badly. Its just such a stupid assumption you're making. As an event organizer, I'm kicking this guy out for creating a problem with ANY of my event attendees.
If you come to my house and you act aggressive. Guess what you're gonna get kicked out.
Pro tip: don't go out in public and make an idiot of yourself
banning was fair. wish there were more aggressive bannings in general to get rid of all the asshats like this that infest the tournament scene discouraging new people from participating, or returning.
If you had someone over your house for dinner, and in the middle of the meal they picked up their plate, walked up to your or your wife, and said "This is what I think of your food" and and flung the flood in your face, how would you react?
We're not talking about legal action here. I wouldn't advocate the guy getting arrested or anything. But SCG is well within thier rights to refuse entry to their own tournaments to anyone, and behavior like this is way beyond any reasonable definition of acceptable behavior
No one knows how Todd reacted, so stop assuming he reacted badly. Its just such a stupid assumption you're making. As an event organizer, I'm kicking this guy out for creating a problem with ANY of my event attendees.
If you come to my house and you act aggressive. Guess what you're gonna get kicked out.
Pro tip: don't go out in public and make an idiot of yourself
And who is to judge who is an idiot and who is not?
Like I said, the guy didnt hit Todd, all he did is ask him to sign some cards, then rip them up. They were his cards, he did nothing illegal. People rip up cards all the time.
People are over reacting. SCG over reacted. Like I said above, if we are going to ban every aggressive player in the player base, we will have half the player base. A lot can be thought of as 'aggressive'.
@Bocephus
Where do you get this idea of yours that its OK to be aggressive and get into other people's faces?
I didnt know making a smart a** comment and ripping up some cards is being aggressive..
EDIT: @ Bocephus: He wasn't banned from magic, for the record, he was banned from SCG's own events. As a private business they have every right to ban someone from their events if they have shown the type of poor behavior that this person showed. No one, period, has a right to be able to act like a jerk without there being consequences for their actions. Certainly glad our community doesn't tolerate that sort of behavior either.
This is also an important point, I think. An SCG ban is far less harsh than a ban by the DCI, and it seems appropriate to me that SCG might therefore choose to be less permissive in their standards of acceptable conduct than the DCI would.
(Of course, for a certain level of jerk behavior, especially anything that crosses the line into threatening, a DCI ban would also be forthcoming, but my impression is that this wasn't the case here).
I didnt know making a smart a** comment and ripping up some cards is being aggressive..
It certainly can be. It's all in how you do it. Depending on how exactly the events described here went down, a ban might be an overreaction, or it might be obviously well-deserved, or it might fall into the middle region where SCG does what they want and we'd be correct to shrug and say "Eh, it's their call."
The information presented here, along with what the guy apparently had to say for himself, makes me think that it probably wasn't an overreaction, or at least not much of one. I'd have to have seen it to know for sure.
And who is to judge who is an idiot and who is not?
Like I said, the guy didnt hit Todd, all he did is ask him to sign some cards, then rip them up. They were his cards, he did nothing illegal.
You don't need to do something illegal to get banned from an SCG event.
I didnt know making a smart a** comment and ripping up some cards is being aggressive..
Then you have an odd definition of "aggressive".
Players are not entitled to participate in SCG events. They are invited guests. If a guest cannot behave himself, the host has every right to tell them to leave and not come back.
So what was the aggressive incident? The comment or ripping up cards?
Like I said, I see people ripping up cards weekly so I dont feel ripping up cards is an aggressive action. Its just something the player base does, at least in my area.
Players are not entitled to participate in SCG events. They are invited guests. If a guest cannot behave himself, the host has every right to tell them to leave and not come back.
I have no problem with this. As soon as someone explains what he did that was so wrong. To me there was no act of aggression.
If you act like a titanic jerk to one of my employees, I will likely ban you from my offices. This guy is not entitled to be able to attend or participate in events run by a private business. You are not a special or unique snowflake, no one owes you patience to endure your personality defects.
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(strong_sad = Todd Anderson)
This has generated quite a lot of discussion on Twitter. Fair, or did SCG overreact?
Update :
Update added to OP, thread title changed to reflect such
It does however create the obvious question of whether this happens if neither party involved is notable.
Also curious about your opinion, Sveinung, given you're a high level player yourself.
Please refrain from evading the forum censor.
-Memnarch
Guess everyone needs to like Todd Anderson from here on out. Star city is looking out for their little one.
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SCG's reaction seems to me like it at least could be within reasonable bounds of their discretion as a tournament organizer, so I'm not inclined to quibble. Guy sounds like a real charmer, and I can't fault a tournament organizer for preferring that he not be around.
No. It's not just that.
He deliberately went to Todd, got him to sign the tokens, then ripped them up in his face (unknown whether he then threw them). It's intentional asshattery, and to a main personality (AND EMPLOYEE) for SCG. They had every right to kick him out and ban him. No one wants that garbage at a fun, friendly event.
Todd's response is also irrelevant because SCG as an event organiser, has the job to make sure a smooth event happens. Not to accommodate *******s.
SCG obviously must ban him, because if they don't what kind of example do they set? The guy was the cancer in the room and he had to be removed.
None of that seems bannable. He didnt rip up someone elses cards, he did not assault anyone, he didnt steal any thing, didnt cheat at the game. People say worse things to Todd on Twitter about his write ups on SCG. It really is not that big of a deal. SCG and Todd are making way too much out of it.
What!!! So acting aggressive is a bannable offense? If that was true the player base should be about half of what it is. No one was hurt except for Todds feelings, and like I said above people say worse on Twitter about his write up on SCG.
Complete over reaction to the situation.
Ban him. No-one needs a knob-end like him around.
Niv-Mizzet Ramp 'n' Wheel
Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
I personally think that it is good for the community to punish those who go out of their way to be jerks at Magic events, and that we don't do this enough. I think it's a good thing that SCG did what they did; it sets an example and a precedent.
This seriously. If someone were to treat someone who worked for us that way, with no provocation, then yeah, I'm sorry, but you wont be allowed back again. The right to refuse service to anyone certainly applies here. You want to act like that, then you can deal with the consequences and go somewhere else to play.
EDIT: @ Bocephus: He wasn't banned from magic, for the record, he was banned from SCG's own events. As a private business they have every right to ban someone from their events if they have shown the type of poor behavior that this person showed. No one, period, has a right to be able to act like a jerk without there being consequences for their actions. Certainly glad our community doesn't tolerate that sort of behavior either.
No one knows how Todd reacted, so stop assuming he reacted badly. Its just such a stupid assumption you're making. As an event organizer, I'm kicking this guy out for creating a problem with ANY of my event attendees.
If you come to my house and you act aggressive. Guess what you're gonna get kicked out.
Pro tip: don't go out in public and make an idiot of yourself
If you had someone over your house for dinner, and in the middle of the meal they picked up their plate, walked up to your or your wife, and said "This is what I think of your food" and and flung the flood in your face, how would you react?
We're not talking about legal action here. I wouldn't advocate the guy getting arrested or anything. But SCG is well within thier rights to refuse entry to their own tournaments to anyone, and behavior like this is way beyond any reasonable definition of acceptable behavior
Where do you get this idea of yours that its OK to be aggressive and get into other people's faces?
And who is to judge who is an idiot and who is not?
Like I said, the guy didnt hit Todd, all he did is ask him to sign some cards, then rip them up. They were his cards, he did nothing illegal. People rip up cards all the time.
People are over reacting. SCG over reacted. Like I said above, if we are going to ban every aggressive player in the player base, we will have half the player base. A lot can be thought of as 'aggressive'.
I didnt know making a smart a** comment and ripping up some cards is being aggressive..
This is also an important point, I think. An SCG ban is far less harsh than a ban by the DCI, and it seems appropriate to me that SCG might therefore choose to be less permissive in their standards of acceptable conduct than the DCI would.
(Of course, for a certain level of jerk behavior, especially anything that crosses the line into threatening, a DCI ban would also be forthcoming, but my impression is that this wasn't the case here).
It certainly can be. It's all in how you do it. Depending on how exactly the events described here went down, a ban might be an overreaction, or it might be obviously well-deserved, or it might fall into the middle region where SCG does what they want and we'd be correct to shrug and say "Eh, it's their call."
The information presented here, along with what the guy apparently had to say for himself, makes me think that it probably wasn't an overreaction, or at least not much of one. I'd have to have seen it to know for sure.
You don't need to do something illegal to get banned from an SCG event.
Then you have an odd definition of "aggressive".
Players are not entitled to participate in SCG events. They are invited guests. If a guest cannot behave himself, the host has every right to tell them to leave and not come back.
So what was the aggressive incident? The comment or ripping up cards?
Like I said, I see people ripping up cards weekly so I dont feel ripping up cards is an aggressive action. Its just something the player base does, at least in my area.
I have no problem with this. As soon as someone explains what he did that was so wrong. To me there was no act of aggression.