And I thought tournaments were structured so people of comparable records played each other?
No, and I think this is one of the greatest losses from moving away from the ELO system to PW Points. There's no way to match players up with similarly skilled players, since PW points don't accurately reflect how good you are, just how much you play
With ELO you could have tournaments for 1700 and under rated players or something. With PWP, you can't
I'm not driving 24 miles round trip to play at a tournament.
24 miles is nothing in the competitive world of Magic.
And I thought tournaments were structured so people of comparable records played each other?
You do with in the tournament. They dont take in last weeks FNM or last months local tournament for format staples.
Gather (the program that most stores use for their tournaments) randomly pairs people for the first round of a tournament. After the first round is over, Gather pairs all the players who won their first round match together, and all those who lost their first round match. Rinse and repeat each round. As the tournament moves along and there are odd numbers, Gather pairs up or down due to tie breakers of the current tournament.
If you only played people the same experience level as you are, you would never get better. You need to play people better then you to get better at the game.
If you want to compete at FNM without spending much money, it will take a lot of research and a lot of practice. Honestly I suggest you try drafting more. Read some articles and try to get better.
It's one thing to be out maneuvered or over powered, but when the guy has 4 restoration angels, 4 thragtusks, 4 voice of resurgence, 4 huntmasters, 4 olivias, 4 aristocrats it's like skill goes out the window.
Just because they have playsets and their decks are actually competitive lists, doesn't mean it takes less skill to operate them. Please don't try to equate the two....
Also, I live in a large metropolitan area and guess what....I drive 15-20mins to the nearest LGS, but my main LGS is literally 30mins away (and that's driving on the highway).....it's not a problem for me at all. In fact some players at my closest LGS (John Medina, Adam Prosak, Lauren Nolan) drive 30+ mins from the Dayton area just to play FNM or Cube Draft etc.
It sucks you're not in a location where you have access to a good store but maybe driving 24mins to the other one where you might have a better experience is actually worth it?
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
I notice a lot of people live in or near major cities, but where I live there are 2 FNM shops in the county and I'm not driving 24 miles round trip to play at a tournament.
Well, if you're not going to sign up for MTGO and play on there, they you have little reason to actually play competitive Magic, don't you? I'm pretty sure you're not going to get to PTQs and Grand Prixs with 12 miles of your house.
Capping yourself at that distance pretty much means "I'm never playing anywhere except FNM"
And I seriously doubt people at my LGS are playing magic for the fun of it. What happens virtually every tournament I've been in is the leading players get together and decide to tie without playing the last round so they don't have to play.
People have fun in different ways, and honestly- if there's money or prize on the table, why would a player do anything that is against their interest? If they play those games and lose, they've just placed themselves out of of prizes. Fun or not, what person would do that? Especially since they could just say "Let's draw, split prize, and hey... wanna play a round for fun?"
If the game is so much fun why does everyone on a bye leave and why do successful players have no interest in playing another round?
Because a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
If one can gaurntee themselves a place or prize, why wouldn't they... unless they were completely confident they'll steamroll their opponent.
I've been asked to concede matches so my opponent could place. Like you don't understand my LGS, it's not like yours. People buy 2-3 boxes of boosters at a time. They leave almost all the cards they just bought on the table for anyone including cheap rares.
After a certain point, one's collection does get huge and excess commons, uncommons and even some rares can be a bunch of clutter. It's good that they're leaving them for the store or other players rather than throwing them away. Noone really needs anything more than the 4 copies of any particular card, unless they just don't want to swap the cards in and out of other decks.
They simply don't care. They are not playing for the fun of it, they're taking every step to play less magic. Guys will pick up and leave if they lose 2 matches and not play the next 2.
Time is a valuable resource- and many of these events occur on Friday or Saturday nights, and start at 6-7 o'clock. If you consider that, dropping and leaving after two losses (when you're out of tournament contention), puts you finished with the tournament at 9PM. At 9PM on a Friday or Saturday, it is still entirely possible to meet up with other friends that have been doing something else. I don't know where your store is, but typically at the stores I've played most events end up being 4-5 rounds. There's a world of difference between 9PM and 11PM or 12AM.
Plus, if you pay attention to those players, you may see that while they may drop the tournament, they may hang around the store and start a team draft, pull out an EDH deck and play another person there, cube with their friends, or even hang around the game store and play another game.
They aren't going out of their way to play less Magic, they're going out of their way to get the most possible enjoyment out of the time they spend playing Magic.
There are times when hanging around in the tournament in the 0-X bracket can be fun... especially prereleases, but if you're playing a LOT of Magic- weekly tournaments, online, casually with friends at the kitchen table, etc, etc... sitting around and playing two more games that have no importance to the tournament you're in can sometimes be a poor use of time.
And I'm sorry but I don't enjoy losing constantly. It's one thing to be out maneuvered or over powered, but when the guy has 4 restoration angels, 4 thragtusks, 4 voice of resurgence, 4 huntmasters, 4 olivias, 4 aristocrats it's like skill goes out the window. I don't think any amount of skill overcomes those kinds of players.
And I thought tournaments were structured so people of comparable records played each other? Why am I playing the guy that works at the store?
The only way you get better is by losing constantly.
Plus, you're not only losing to better card quality, you're losing against better players, though I doubt you're actually even admitting it to yourself.
Playing the game non-competitively is another option. EDH is a great way to just play around with friends. Buy the pre-con that should be coming out soon for $35 or so, have a blast with whoever else likes to play EDH.
In terms of playing competitively, don't spend a dime on boosters because you're more than likely going to just waste the money that you would have had otherwise to spend on singles. If you want shock lands, they run about the price of two boosters. You're not probably going to pull any from the boosters, much less the ones you want.
In terms of making the money to play the game, run a budget friendly deck, set aside X amount of dollars out a paycheck for magic expenses. You'll have a reasonable amount of money in a deck in no time. Just don't get zealous and play Modern or Legacy, anything over $500 is really frustrating to make.
If you don't have a job or an expendable income, make what you can out of the game and play for fun, don't expect to be hyper competitive when decks can run you hundreds of dollars you may not have. Just make the best out of the game, find the casual crowd or the competitive players who like to play casually as well, and go with it.
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I notice a lot of people live in or near major cities, but where I live there are 2 FNM shops in the county and I'm not driving 24 miles round trip to play at a tournament.
And I seriously doubt people at my LGS are playing magic for the fun of it. What happens virtually every tournament I've been in is the leading players get together and decide to tie without playing the last round so they don't have to play. If the game is so much fun why does everyone on a bye leave and why do successful players have no interest in playing another round? I've been asked to concede matches so my opponent could place. Like you don't understand my LGS, it's not like yours. People buy 2-3 boxes of boosters at a time. They leave almost all the cards they just bought on the table for anyone including cheap rares. They simply don't care. They are not playing for the fun of it, they're taking every step to play less magic. Guys will pick up and leave if they lose 2 matches and not play the next 2.
And I'm sorry but I don't enjoy losing constantly. It's one thing to be out maneuvered or over powered, but when the guy has 4 restoration angels, 4 thragtusks, 4 voice of resurgence, 4 huntmasters, 4 olivias, 4 aristocrats it's like skill goes out the window. I don't think any amount of skill overcomes those kinds of players.
And I thought tournaments were structured so people of comparable records played each other? Why am I playing the guy that works at the store?
None of this stuff is as outrageous as you think it is. Its certainly very common. If I go to draft, I might open 3 or 4 cards that I actually want. The other 40+ cards I either leave on the counter or table for others to pick through. I don't want to take junk and put it in my closet if i'm never going to use it. If anything, it sounds like players like you could go through those stacks and find things they want/need. I don't see the problem there.
Also, people drop because they have things that come up or its late and they're tired. Thats just life. If I lose my first two matches I'll just drop and either playtest or go home because i like playing for prizes.
People tie the last round to guarantee prizing and or to go home early. The earlier I get to go home, the sooner i get to eat dinner or go to sleep b/c i've worked all day. Nobody is doing it because they hate playing magic. That doesnt even make sense.
Your posts are bordering on whining about the world being unfair. Yes its unfair. No, it wont always accommodate you. Driving 24 miles anywhere is literally nothing. I've got a guy in our office that bikes 10 miles round trip to work everyday. On a bicycle. Complaining about driving 24 miles roundtrip for a night of fun is ridiculous.
If gas money is that big of a deal, focus on making money and getting a good job, not getting 5th place at FNM.
I swear to god people are not even capable of reading or deductive reasoning. I say I don't want to drive 24 miles to lose at FNM and then someone says I'll never get to PTQ if I don't drive over 24 miles? Really guy? You don't think I'd make an exception for that? Really? Really guy? Did you even think before you typed?
And I love people magically know more about what is happening at my LGS than I do. You keep talking about the joy of magic then have a list of excuses why someone doesn't want to play it even though they drove and spent entry fees to play. Enough of your excuses.
I haven't drafted or bought a booster pack in a month, so stop telling me to not do it. And stop telling me to buy a pre-constructed commander deck right after someone says pre-constructed decks are trash.
And I could have sworn MTGO costs even more money to play and I'll have a bunch of fake cards I can't use in real life.
And sweeney the genius just proved my point while criticizing me at the same time. People want to win, not play. You criticize my attitude then go on to prove me right in the same post. Players don't want to lose, they'd rather compromise. But it's ok when they do it, just not when I do it right?
You talk about how people drive much further than I do to play magic, and then justify them leaving halfway through the tournament because they're not winning. So when I'm tired of losing I have a bad attitude, but when they are it's completely justified right? That's what you're saying.
You tell me not buy boosters then in the same post justify the behavior of experienced players that blow tons of money on boosters.
And it's a laughable and a giant lie to believe a lot of money can't overcome skill deficiencies. You literally said money doesn't overcome skill deficiencies but virtually every competitive player spends a ton of money.
And another conclusion that was drawn out of thin air is that competitive people hate magic? Yeah that's what this whole thread is about.......
I'm saying that the people who play competitively only enjoy it when they're winning, and is self evident from their behavior, they don't play if they're losing, or if there is a chance to make slightly less store credit. And of course everyone can magically see what happens in my LGS and justify their win or go home behavior but criticize me for the same exact attitude.
And stop telling me to buy a pre-constructed commander deck right after someone says pre-constructed decks are trash.
And I could have sworn MTGO costs even more money to play and I'll have a bunch of fake cards I can't use in real life.
You actually get a fair amount of value out of commander precons, and have a decent basis for a deck with one. Commander precons are one of the few precons that are actually worth the investment for the format they're meant for.
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Collecting Maw of the Mire! Feel free to send me any you have, so long as they're in reasonable condition.
People want to win, not play. You criticize my attitude then go on to prove me right in the same post. Players don't want to lose, they'd rather compromise. But it's ok when they do it, just not when I do it right?
You talk about how people drive much further than I do to play magic, and then justify them leaving halfway through the tournament because they're not winning.
Are all those other people on forums raging and asking people for feedback? No. But you are. The justification for driving to play two rounds is that driving 24 miles isnt a big deal. Its not a big deal to play an hour of magic, its not a big deal to play 3 hours of magic. So if they want to leave after an hour its not a big deal. Those people aren't on the internet complaining that a 24 mile round trip is too much.
They're making that trip and are perfectly fine with it. You obviously are not.
Honestly what kind of feedback were you expecting to get on this forum? Or were you just posting to vent?
If you're not enjoying the game quit. If you don't have money to enjoy the game, either get more money or quit.
You come here, ask us advice, and continually berate us for giving our opinions and trying to help you.
Dude, GTFO and quit Magic, seriously. The game is better without people with your attitude.
Eh, go easy on the guy, he's just frustrated.
IronPlushy, the issue you are running into is that there are some fundamental truths to Magic that you simply need to accept. Building competitive decks costs money, usually in the $200-$400 dollar range. It's just a fact. Many people wish it weren't so, but wishes don't really work. It's simply a fact you need to accept. If you do not want to spend that kind of $$ on Magic, you are probably going to lose against decks with more expensive cards. Your only option is to either pony up the $$, or don't play competitively.
As for the FNM crowd, some people are super competitive about MTG and have the resources to commit to buying the best cards and have the time to put into the game to become great players. It's just a fact that there is a segment of the playerbase who fits that role. You need to accept that they exist, and adjust your playstyle accordingly: either invest the time and money to play at their level, or don't play in events with them.
I'm sensing a lot of frustration in your posts, and if I had to guess, it's because you have goals that you cannot reach with your current resources. You want to beat the best players, but don't have the money to get the cards you need to do it. You want to play in more tournaments, but don't want to drive the distance required to do so. You want to be able to win without spending a lot of $$, but don't want to play casually.
All of those things are at odds with each other. I would take a second and look at what your goals are in this hobby, and see if they are achievable with the current resources you have. If so, great go have fun. If not, then Magic might not be the best hobby for you. Not trying to be harsh, but from your posts, it doesn't sound like you are having a lot of fun.
IronPlushy: Do you have trouble making friends? It seems that there are a lot of regulars at your FNM, but your statements about them seem to be all assumptions about how they see the game. This leads me to believe that you do not actually talk to them or are not friends with them, and perhaps that is part of your problem understanding. Say hi, strike up a conversation, talk about magic, and make friends with them. Eventually you can feel them out for who might want to meet for casual games, or practice, or whatever.
You also mentioned that there are "2 FNM shops" in your county, which leads me to believe that you only got to the shop for FNM. Drop in on a thursday night and see what's going on. I cannot imagine that this shop is all ultra=competitive spikes all the time.
...and with regards to MTGO: If you are only playing MTGO, it actually cost MUCH less than paper magic.
Lastly, a little paragraph spacing might make your posts easier to read.
I swear to god people are not even capable of reading or deductive reasoning. I say I don't want to drive 24 miles to lose at FNM and then someone says I'll never get to PTQ if I don't drive over 24 miles? Really guy? You don't think I'd make an exception for that? Really? Really guy? Did you even think before you typed?
And I love people magically know more about what is happening at my LGS than I do. You keep talking about the joy of magic then have a list of excuses why someone doesn't want to play it even though they drove and spent entry fees to play. Enough of your excuses.
I haven't drafted or bought a booster pack in a month, so stop telling me to not do it. And stop telling me to buy a pre-constructed commander deck right after someone says pre-constructed decks are trash.
And I could have sworn MTGO costs even more money to play and I'll have a bunch of fake cards I can't use in real life.
And sweeney the genius just proved my point while criticizing me at the same time. People want to win, not play. You criticize my attitude then go on to prove me right in the same post. Players don't want to lose, they'd rather compromise. But it's ok when they do it, just not when I do it right?
You talk about how people drive much further than I do to play magic, and then justify them leaving halfway through the tournament because they're not winning. So when I'm tired of losing I have a bad attitude, but when they are it's completely justified right? That's what you're saying.
You tell me not buy boosters then in the same post justify the behavior of experienced players that blow tons of money on boosters.
And it's a laughable and a giant lie to believe a lot of money can't overcome skill deficiencies. You literally said money doesn't overcome skill deficiencies but virtually every competitive player spends a ton of money.
And another conclusion that was drawn out of thin air is that competitive people hate magic? Yeah that's what this whole thread is about.......
I'm saying that the people who play competitively only enjoy it when they're winning, and is self evident from their behavior, they don't play if they're losing, or if there is a chance to make slightly less store credit. And of course everyone can magically see what happens in my LGS and justify their win or go home behavior but criticize me for the same exact attitude.
Are you sure you didn't mean 24 miles one way? Because 24 round trip driving really is nothing. That's about 15 minutes each way.
Money really isn't going to beat skill. You can't give a bad player the same deck that won the most recent pro tour and expect him to even do well in a fnm. The reason you see those skilled competitive buying a bunch of booster is because they want to compete with the other skilled competitive players.
The reasons many of those competitive players drop after going 0-2 is because they don't want to have to bore themselves playing the typical 0-2 players that barely know how to tap a card. Imagine your favorite pro football teaming having to play a middle school football team. Do you think you pro team is going to find enjoyable to wreck the snot out of those kids? They're not going to play because its not exciting playing someone who has no chance of actually winning.
I swear to god people are not even capable of reading or deductive reasoning. I say I don't want to drive 24 miles to lose at FNM and then someone says I'll never get to PTQ if I don't drive over 24 miles? Really guy? You don't think I'd make an exception for that? Really? Really guy? Did you even think before you typed?
And I love people magically know more about what is happening at my LGS than I do. You keep talking about the joy of magic then have a list of excuses why someone doesn't want to play it even though they drove and spent entry fees to play. Enough of your excuses.
I haven't drafted or bought a booster pack in a month, so stop telling me to not do it. And stop telling me to buy a pre-constructed commander deck right after someone says pre-constructed decks are trash.
And I could have sworn MTGO costs even more money to play and I'll have a bunch of fake cards I can't use in real life.
And sweeney the genius just proved my point while criticizing me at the same time. People want to win, not play. You criticize my attitude then go on to prove me right in the same post. Players don't want to lose, they'd rather compromise. But it's ok when they do it, just not when I do it right?
You talk about how people drive much further than I do to play magic, and then justify them leaving halfway through the tournament because they're not winning. So when I'm tired of losing I have a bad attitude, but when they are it's completely justified right? That's what you're saying.
You tell me not buy boosters then in the same post justify the behavior of experienced players that blow tons of money on boosters.
And it's a laughable and a giant lie to believe a lot of money can't overcome skill deficiencies. You literally said money doesn't overcome skill deficiencies but virtually every competitive player spends a ton of money.
And another conclusion that was drawn out of thin air is that competitive people hate magic? Yeah that's what this whole thread is about.......
I'm saying that the people who play competitively only enjoy it when they're winning, and is self evident from their behavior, they don't play if they're losing, or if there is a chance to make slightly less store credit. And of course everyone can magically see what happens in my LGS and justify their win or go home behavior but criticize me for the same exact attitude.
Everybody has tried to help you here. why the hostility? Facts are facts... You need a little bit of money to play competitive magic. If you cant afford it, then find a playgroup and play casually. If there isnt anybody to play casually with, then play mtgo. If you dont want to play mtgo, then move to a different city where there are more places and people to play magic. If none of these suggestions do it for you then just quit magic. The magic community always hate losing fellow players but we will get by
Imagine your favorite pro football teaming having to play a middle school football team. Do you think you pro team is going to find enjoyable to wreck the snot out of those kids?
As someone said before: think of MTG as a sport. Good equipment will make you play better. The best players have the best equipment. And that's expensive to do, but it's worth it (for them) because they love the game, and love to win. But remember, only having good equipment does not make you good. And from the sounds of it, you're not very good at MTG. So before you whine about how everyone beats you only because they have good equipment, consider the fact that they're also much, much higher in skill level than you are.
If you want to compete with the best players, you have to do two things.
1) Get as good at MTG as they are.
2) Get as good cards as they have.
Now, one of these things is expensive. One is not. Either one can lead to wins over other players, but only both will lead to consistent wins over the best players. My suggestion to you is to focus on getting as good at MTG as possible, despite what cards you're playing with. Read articles about strategy and deckbuilding. Study decklists and try to understand why each card is (or isn't) there. Play drafts. Ask your opponents what you did wrong (or right) after each match. Post your decklists online, and don't complain when everyone tears it apart. Heck, even show people at your LGS your deck and ask how to make it better on a budget.
Then, if you still want to win even more matches, slowly save up money for ONE good deck in the format of your choosing. (Modern is good because it doesn't rotate.) Get as much information about that deck as you possibly can. Proxy it up first, and play people and ask for criticism. Netdecking is a wonderful idea. Netdecks are the result of hundreds of hours of brewing and testing. If you want to win, start with what is proven to win.
But I cannot stress this enough: skill will beat equipment. So focus on your skill level first.
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Modern: UR storm
Legacy: dragon stompy
Pauper: UG madness
MTGO: big_hat
Get Magic Workstation and practice. Save money while doing this so when you do show up at the LGS you'll have some hope. This is what I'm doing with Modern. I can't afford to play tournaments yet, but I'm getting close.
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Looking for people to play Modern on MWS. Either drop me a PM or msg me on AIM.
Find me on mwsgames or magic-league (screenname: Ledfut). Mention that you are from mtgsalvation
So I just went 10-1 against my friend whose cards I'm using. The one I lost he miracled onto his 8/8 primordial hydra giving it +6/+6 and trample. The turn before I had played lingering souls though I had Willing in my hand and could have killed that hydra but I already had tried baiting him but he wouldn't use his hydra until it could trample and I wasted that turn not playing a card banking on his hydra attacking.
I posted my Aristocrat deck in the Standard>budget subsection. 91 views and no suggestions.
I always discuss my opponents deck with them after they beat me if they don't get up right away. The last tournament I did I only went 1-3 but the matches were so close I know if I had practiced at all beforehand things could have been different. First deck was R/G rush 2-1 all close games. Second one was my friend who had gone 2-2 with his Boros Deck last time but I crushed him. Next was a R/G/B with all the Thragtusks, Huntmasters, Olivias, and aristocrats I couldn't defend against. Last match was U/W control that I could have beat if I had built a proper sideboard.
My friend went 2-2 in his first tournament and we practice constantly. I have a lot of faith in my Aristocrats deck and I'm considering going Saturday which has a $200 prize pool. Though Monday is far less competitive.
I mean check my deck in the Standard Budget section, am I really that bad at making a deck? Tell me everything I did wrong, I've never made a successful deck but I've never had more confidence in a deck. It closely resembles Act 1 Aristocrats.
And that 24 mile round trip is for the shop I don't go to. I already know more than half the people at my store, talk with the owner regularly, and have a good feel for the metagame.
I was extremely frustrated with the game through most my posts, but after going 10-1 against my friend against 3 different tournament decks I feel like I can place very soon.
And I've decided to invest slowly into dual lands even though my guildgates have never caused any dire situations.
Its true - My career has been dedicated to helping businesses grow and its just a fact that Wizards will never increase its appeal to casuals as long as its this expensive.
They can change the rules all they want to try and dumb it down but that was never the problem.
Here is what you do
1. Play on Cockatrice - no money invested and you can play from home
2. Proxy your cards - print the top cards and play casually with those
3. Only draft - lets face it - constructed is a waste of money
4. Spend your money on other things - Travelling is way more fun
And that 24 mile round trip is for the shop I don't go to. I already know more than half the people at my store, talk with the owner regularly, and have a good feel for the metagame.
Good, I was not getting that from your other posts. Sounds like you are doing what you need to do. To be honest 24 miles round trip does not seem that big a deal to me, and having a larger player pool is always a good thing, but then I used to drive 40 miles each way to work and back (after a 12 hr night shift), so I am not bothered by longer drives.
That said, you should do what works for you.
And I've decided to invest slowly into dual lands...
Good call, especially if you eventually decide to branch out into Modern.
Good, I was not getting that from your other posts. Sounds like you are doing what you need to do. To be honest 24 miles round trip does not seem that big a deal to me, and having a larger player pool is always a good thing, but then I used to drive 40 miles each way to work and back (after a 12 hr night shift), so I am not bothered by longer drives.
That said, you should do what works for you.
Good call, especially if you eventually decide to branch out into Modern.
Yea like someone said earlier, 24 mile round trip is like 15 each way.
I used to drive 50 minutes each way to work. Daily. 15 minute drive once a week doesn't sound bad at all. (It takes me around 11/12 to play magic currently)
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Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
after going 10-1 against my friend against 3 different tournament decks I feel like I can place very soon.
Magic is not that easy. You are playing another person, there is variance to the game, there is a bit of luck involved also. We dont know the playing experience of your friend. We dont know how good of a pilot he is. Its not until you start to play multiple people, against multiple decks, against multiple level of players, that you will rally understand if you are that close to placing. Another thing is take every week as it comes. Just because you dont place one week, doesnt mean you cant place the next week. The same goes for placing. Once you do place, dont be angry if you cant do it every week.
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No, and I think this is one of the greatest losses from moving away from the ELO system to PW Points. There's no way to match players up with similarly skilled players, since PW points don't accurately reflect how good you are, just how much you play
With ELO you could have tournaments for 1700 and under rated players or something. With PWP, you can't
24 miles is nothing in the competitive world of Magic.
You do with in the tournament. They dont take in last weeks FNM or last months local tournament for format staples.
Gather (the program that most stores use for their tournaments) randomly pairs people for the first round of a tournament. After the first round is over, Gather pairs all the players who won their first round match together, and all those who lost their first round match. Rinse and repeat each round. As the tournament moves along and there are odd numbers, Gather pairs up or down due to tie breakers of the current tournament.
If you only played people the same experience level as you are, you would never get better. You need to play people better then you to get better at the game.
Just because they have playsets and their decks are actually competitive lists, doesn't mean it takes less skill to operate them. Please don't try to equate the two....
Also, I live in a large metropolitan area and guess what....I drive 15-20mins to the nearest LGS, but my main LGS is literally 30mins away (and that's driving on the highway).....it's not a problem for me at all. In fact some players at my closest LGS (John Medina, Adam Prosak, Lauren Nolan) drive 30+ mins from the Dayton area just to play FNM or Cube Draft etc.
It sucks you're not in a location where you have access to a good store but maybe driving 24mins to the other one where you might have a better experience is actually worth it?
Well, if you're not going to sign up for MTGO and play on there, they you have little reason to actually play competitive Magic, don't you? I'm pretty sure you're not going to get to PTQs and Grand Prixs with 12 miles of your house.
Capping yourself at that distance pretty much means "I'm never playing anywhere except FNM"
People have fun in different ways, and honestly- if there's money or prize on the table, why would a player do anything that is against their interest? If they play those games and lose, they've just placed themselves out of of prizes. Fun or not, what person would do that? Especially since they could just say "Let's draw, split prize, and hey... wanna play a round for fun?"
Because a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
If one can gaurntee themselves a place or prize, why wouldn't they... unless they were completely confident they'll steamroll their opponent.
After a certain point, one's collection does get huge and excess commons, uncommons and even some rares can be a bunch of clutter. It's good that they're leaving them for the store or other players rather than throwing them away. Noone really needs anything more than the 4 copies of any particular card, unless they just don't want to swap the cards in and out of other decks.
Time is a valuable resource- and many of these events occur on Friday or Saturday nights, and start at 6-7 o'clock. If you consider that, dropping and leaving after two losses (when you're out of tournament contention), puts you finished with the tournament at 9PM. At 9PM on a Friday or Saturday, it is still entirely possible to meet up with other friends that have been doing something else. I don't know where your store is, but typically at the stores I've played most events end up being 4-5 rounds. There's a world of difference between 9PM and 11PM or 12AM.
Plus, if you pay attention to those players, you may see that while they may drop the tournament, they may hang around the store and start a team draft, pull out an EDH deck and play another person there, cube with their friends, or even hang around the game store and play another game.
They aren't going out of their way to play less Magic, they're going out of their way to get the most possible enjoyment out of the time they spend playing Magic.
There are times when hanging around in the tournament in the 0-X bracket can be fun... especially prereleases, but if you're playing a LOT of Magic- weekly tournaments, online, casually with friends at the kitchen table, etc, etc... sitting around and playing two more games that have no importance to the tournament you're in can sometimes be a poor use of time.
The only way you get better is by losing constantly.
Plus, you're not only losing to better card quality, you're losing against better players, though I doubt you're actually even admitting it to yourself.
In terms of playing competitively, don't spend a dime on boosters because you're more than likely going to just waste the money that you would have had otherwise to spend on singles. If you want shock lands, they run about the price of two boosters. You're not probably going to pull any from the boosters, much less the ones you want.
In terms of making the money to play the game, run a budget friendly deck, set aside X amount of dollars out a paycheck for magic expenses. You'll have a reasonable amount of money in a deck in no time. Just don't get zealous and play Modern or Legacy, anything over $500 is really frustrating to make.
If you don't have a job or an expendable income, make what you can out of the game and play for fun, don't expect to be hyper competitive when decks can run you hundreds of dollars you may not have. Just make the best out of the game, find the casual crowd or the competitive players who like to play casually as well, and go with it.
None of this stuff is as outrageous as you think it is. Its certainly very common. If I go to draft, I might open 3 or 4 cards that I actually want. The other 40+ cards I either leave on the counter or table for others to pick through. I don't want to take junk and put it in my closet if i'm never going to use it. If anything, it sounds like players like you could go through those stacks and find things they want/need. I don't see the problem there.
Also, people drop because they have things that come up or its late and they're tired. Thats just life. If I lose my first two matches I'll just drop and either playtest or go home because i like playing for prizes.
People tie the last round to guarantee prizing and or to go home early. The earlier I get to go home, the sooner i get to eat dinner or go to sleep b/c i've worked all day. Nobody is doing it because they hate playing magic. That doesnt even make sense.
Your posts are bordering on whining about the world being unfair. Yes its unfair. No, it wont always accommodate you. Driving 24 miles anywhere is literally nothing. I've got a guy in our office that bikes 10 miles round trip to work everyday. On a bicycle. Complaining about driving 24 miles roundtrip for a night of fun is ridiculous.
If gas money is that big of a deal, focus on making money and getting a good job, not getting 5th place at FNM.
And I love people magically know more about what is happening at my LGS than I do. You keep talking about the joy of magic then have a list of excuses why someone doesn't want to play it even though they drove and spent entry fees to play. Enough of your excuses.
I haven't drafted or bought a booster pack in a month, so stop telling me to not do it. And stop telling me to buy a pre-constructed commander deck right after someone says pre-constructed decks are trash.
And I could have sworn MTGO costs even more money to play and I'll have a bunch of fake cards I can't use in real life.
And sweeney the genius just proved my point while criticizing me at the same time. People want to win, not play. You criticize my attitude then go on to prove me right in the same post. Players don't want to lose, they'd rather compromise. But it's ok when they do it, just not when I do it right?
You talk about how people drive much further than I do to play magic, and then justify them leaving halfway through the tournament because they're not winning. So when I'm tired of losing I have a bad attitude, but when they are it's completely justified right? That's what you're saying.
You tell me not buy boosters then in the same post justify the behavior of experienced players that blow tons of money on boosters.
And it's a laughable and a giant lie to believe a lot of money can't overcome skill deficiencies. You literally said money doesn't overcome skill deficiencies but virtually every competitive player spends a ton of money.
And another conclusion that was drawn out of thin air is that competitive people hate magic? Yeah that's what this whole thread is about.......
I'm saying that the people who play competitively only enjoy it when they're winning, and is self evident from their behavior, they don't play if they're losing, or if there is a chance to make slightly less store credit. And of course everyone can magically see what happens in my LGS and justify their win or go home behavior but criticize me for the same exact attitude.
Infraction issued for trolling. -Xen
Dude why don't you just quit Magic, seriously. The game is better without people with your attitude.
You actually get a fair amount of value out of commander precons, and have a decent basis for a deck with one. Commander precons are one of the few precons that are actually worth the investment for the format they're meant for.
Are all those other people on forums raging and asking people for feedback? No. But you are. The justification for driving to play two rounds is that driving 24 miles isnt a big deal. Its not a big deal to play an hour of magic, its not a big deal to play 3 hours of magic. So if they want to leave after an hour its not a big deal. Those people aren't on the internet complaining that a 24 mile round trip is too much.
They're making that trip and are perfectly fine with it. You obviously are not.
Honestly what kind of feedback were you expecting to get on this forum? Or were you just posting to vent?
If you're not enjoying the game quit. If you don't have money to enjoy the game, either get more money or quit.
Eh, go easy on the guy, he's just frustrated.
IronPlushy, the issue you are running into is that there are some fundamental truths to Magic that you simply need to accept. Building competitive decks costs money, usually in the $200-$400 dollar range. It's just a fact. Many people wish it weren't so, but wishes don't really work. It's simply a fact you need to accept. If you do not want to spend that kind of $$ on Magic, you are probably going to lose against decks with more expensive cards. Your only option is to either pony up the $$, or don't play competitively.
As for the FNM crowd, some people are super competitive about MTG and have the resources to commit to buying the best cards and have the time to put into the game to become great players. It's just a fact that there is a segment of the playerbase who fits that role. You need to accept that they exist, and adjust your playstyle accordingly: either invest the time and money to play at their level, or don't play in events with them.
I'm sensing a lot of frustration in your posts, and if I had to guess, it's because you have goals that you cannot reach with your current resources. You want to beat the best players, but don't have the money to get the cards you need to do it. You want to play in more tournaments, but don't want to drive the distance required to do so. You want to be able to win without spending a lot of $$, but don't want to play casually.
All of those things are at odds with each other. I would take a second and look at what your goals are in this hobby, and see if they are achievable with the current resources you have. If so, great go have fun. If not, then Magic might not be the best hobby for you. Not trying to be harsh, but from your posts, it doesn't sound like you are having a lot of fun.
You also mentioned that there are "2 FNM shops" in your county, which leads me to believe that you only got to the shop for FNM. Drop in on a thursday night and see what's going on. I cannot imagine that this shop is all ultra=competitive spikes all the time.
...and with regards to MTGO: If you are only playing MTGO, it actually cost MUCH less than paper magic.
Lastly, a little paragraph spacing might make your posts easier to read.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
[GTC] Gatecrash Patch for MWS (249/249)
Are you sure you didn't mean 24 miles one way? Because 24 round trip driving really is nothing. That's about 15 minutes each way.
Money really isn't going to beat skill. You can't give a bad player the same deck that won the most recent pro tour and expect him to even do well in a fnm. The reason you see those skilled competitive buying a bunch of booster is because they want to compete with the other skilled competitive players.
The reasons many of those competitive players drop after going 0-2 is because they don't want to have to bore themselves playing the typical 0-2 players that barely know how to tap a card. Imagine your favorite pro football teaming having to play a middle school football team. Do you think you pro team is going to find enjoyable to wreck the snot out of those kids? They're not going to play because its not exciting playing someone who has no chance of actually winning.
Everybody has tried to help you here. why the hostility? Facts are facts... You need a little bit of money to play competitive magic. If you cant afford it, then find a playgroup and play casually. If there isnt anybody to play casually with, then play mtgo. If you dont want to play mtgo, then move to a different city where there are more places and people to play magic. If none of these suggestions do it for you then just quit magic. The magic community always hate losing fellow players but we will get by
Yes.
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
If you want to compete with the best players, you have to do two things.
1) Get as good at MTG as they are.
2) Get as good cards as they have.
Now, one of these things is expensive. One is not. Either one can lead to wins over other players, but only both will lead to consistent wins over the best players. My suggestion to you is to focus on getting as good at MTG as possible, despite what cards you're playing with. Read articles about strategy and deckbuilding. Study decklists and try to understand why each card is (or isn't) there. Play drafts. Ask your opponents what you did wrong (or right) after each match. Post your decklists online, and don't complain when everyone tears it apart. Heck, even show people at your LGS your deck and ask how to make it better on a budget.
Then, if you still want to win even more matches, slowly save up money for ONE good deck in the format of your choosing. (Modern is good because it doesn't rotate.) Get as much information about that deck as you possibly can. Proxy it up first, and play people and ask for criticism. Netdecking is a wonderful idea. Netdecks are the result of hundreds of hours of brewing and testing. If you want to win, start with what is proven to win.
But I cannot stress this enough: skill will beat equipment. So focus on your skill level first.
Legacy: dragon stompy
Pauper: UG madness
MTGO: big_hat
Find me on mwsgames or magic-league (screenname: Ledfut). Mention that you are from mtgsalvation
I posted my Aristocrat deck in the Standard>budget subsection. 91 views and no suggestions.
I always discuss my opponents deck with them after they beat me if they don't get up right away. The last tournament I did I only went 1-3 but the matches were so close I know if I had practiced at all beforehand things could have been different. First deck was R/G rush 2-1 all close games. Second one was my friend who had gone 2-2 with his Boros Deck last time but I crushed him. Next was a R/G/B with all the Thragtusks, Huntmasters, Olivias, and aristocrats I couldn't defend against. Last match was U/W control that I could have beat if I had built a proper sideboard.
My friend went 2-2 in his first tournament and we practice constantly. I have a lot of faith in my Aristocrats deck and I'm considering going Saturday which has a $200 prize pool. Though Monday is far less competitive.
I mean check my deck in the Standard Budget section, am I really that bad at making a deck? Tell me everything I did wrong, I've never made a successful deck but I've never had more confidence in a deck. It closely resembles Act 1 Aristocrats.
And that 24 mile round trip is for the shop I don't go to. I already know more than half the people at my store, talk with the owner regularly, and have a good feel for the metagame.
I was extremely frustrated with the game through most my posts, but after going 10-1 against my friend against 3 different tournament decks I feel like I can place very soon.
And I've decided to invest slowly into dual lands even though my guildgates have never caused any dire situations.
They can change the rules all they want to try and dumb it down but that was never the problem.
Here is what you do
1. Play on Cockatrice - no money invested and you can play from home
2. Proxy your cards - print the top cards and play casually with those
3. Only draft - lets face it - constructed is a waste of money
4. Spend your money on other things - Travelling is way more fun
thx
That said, you should do what works for you.
Good call, especially if you eventually decide to branch out into Modern.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Yea like someone said earlier, 24 mile round trip is like 15 each way.
I used to drive 50 minutes each way to work. Daily. 15 minute drive once a week doesn't sound bad at all. (It takes me around 11/12 to play magic currently)
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
Magic is not that easy. You are playing another person, there is variance to the game, there is a bit of luck involved also. We dont know the playing experience of your friend. We dont know how good of a pilot he is. Its not until you start to play multiple people, against multiple decks, against multiple level of players, that you will rally understand if you are that close to placing. Another thing is take every week as it comes. Just because you dont place one week, doesnt mean you cant place the next week. The same goes for placing. Once you do place, dont be angry if you cant do it every week.