I trust one of my local LGS less and less because ever since I started suspecting them of box mapping. They have the best price on boosters in town, not organize in-box but stacked in a plastic dispenser. One day, due to the great price, I bought like 15 boosters of the same, to not even get an OK rare. Everything was literally limited jank. The funny thing is, with limited at this lgs, they open new boxes, so the pool isn't completely devoid of some good cards.
Recently, they brought the price of their standard events down a few dollars, but my friend pointed out that a DGM box mapping tool was just released on the market.
Do you know if your LGS boxmaps? What would you do if you found out? How would you confront one if you suspected they did?
15 packs is nowhere near enough data to get suspicious. You should get more information, like asking other players about their results before considering how your LGS treats their sealed product.
I know my LGS doesn't. Every time they open boxes for individual pack sales/prize support they mix the packs around before letting anyone touch them, and they always do it freely before the customer.
Hopefully the small sample size you had was just the exception, rather than the rule, for this store.
15 packs is nowhere near enough data to get suspicious. You should get more information, like asking other players about their results before considering how your LGS treats their sealed product.
I forgot to mention five RTR packs I won for winning a draft and the two packs of RTR a friend and I opened after a recent FNM. So it's more like 22.
Packs not in boxes, packs cheaper than anywhere in the state by a substantial amount, trying to sell a Modern Masters box for than eBay prices on release day instead of drafting it; the behavior is wayyyy too suspicious. And since the owner is always present I'm not going to question it while in the store. I'm not going to chock it up to pure luck as to why I haven't seen a single shock land or non-jank rare or mythic.
I know my LGS doesn't. Every time they open boxes for individual pack sales/prize support they mix the packs around before letting anyone touch them, and they always do it freely before the customer.
Hopefully the small sample size you had was just the exception, rather than the rule, for this store.
This is what my LGS does. Every time they open a box, they take each pack out, shuffle them, and put them back in the box.
No. In fact, my LGS will open the box and shuffle all the packs in the box around so customers can't box map a new box to try to pull the "good" cards.
Our LGS is run by a real standup guy who's a long time friend. You never have to worry about getting cheated there. In fact, two straight weeks once, I pulled 2 Liliana's for my FNM pack.
Nope... In fact when I worked conventions for them, they knew how to box map Yu-Gi-Oh product but didn't. I know this as it's literally mapped the same in every box in terms of the money cards being in the same 3 spots regardless of the box, and the only reason I know this is because they told me to shuffle up any new box I opened to avoid this.
Packs not in boxes, packs cheaper than anywhere in the state by a substantial amount...
How much are we talking here? Shops will often make very slim profit margins on booster packs to drive business to other aspects of the shop.
I know at least one of mine does not. I have seen them open a box of a set that is selling pretty fast before the other one is empty and merge the two with some random groupings.
Of the six stores in my city and its suburbs, I frequent four. I know that three of the four don't, but much of the community has suspicions about the fourth. I extremely rarely buy boosters, so I have little personal experience with the matter anyway.
One is five minutes away from my house and I pretty much never buy anything but singles there because they're your typical sort of card shop: sketchy in the extreme. They gouge on any product they think they can. They went several weeks with having only three DGM boxes in the store after the initial release died down only to have five boxes unsealed sitting on their counter last week after the box map came out.
The other is about a half hour away from my house and deals so much in RPGs, board games, and wargames that CCGs are barely a consideration for them. They recently moved their MTG boosters behind the counter due to shoplifters, but they most certainly do not box map. They don't even charge above MSRP for From the Vault, and the MMA box I got from them I got for slightly under MSRP after my frequent buyer discount was applied.
There's a third place in a mall between the two, but they're more your typical sort of mall novelty shop than anything else. There's also a fourth place a bit further than the second one that I've never shopped at because I found out they have a pack resealer. After all, who needs a box map when you can just open all the boosters, take out anything remotely good, and then seal up the junk again when you're done?
I have a couple of LGS in my area. One does not box map. The other does something of the sort. I watched them open Modern Masters packs (which they should be using for drafting) until opening a Tarmogoyf. Then they put the rest of the packs back in to sell the next day to those who didn't know the best Mythic Rare was already gone from that box. That was not too classy.
I have a couple of LGS in my area. One does not box map. The other does something of the sort. I watched them open Modern Masters packs (which they should be using for drafting) until opening a Tarmogoyf. Then they put the rest of the packs back in to sell the next day to those who didn't know the best Mythic Rare was already gone from that box. That was not too classy.
To be fair, somebody was going to open that goyf, and they could have opened several boxes before opening one. This is not mapping, this is just a store owner wanting to open a goyf really badly.
To be fair, somebody was going to open that goyf, and they could have opened several boxes before opening one. This is not mapping, this is just a store owner wanting to open a goyf really badly.
It is a version of box mapping. Just a very poorly done version with inconsistent results and no pattern or use of technology or purpose.
That kind of boxmapping is like looking for a needle in a haystack with a shotgun.
My shop doesn't. He opens the box and puts all of the packs in a rack at random.
I'm pretty sure the big shop in town doesn't either but some of the players there might since I don't think they shuffle their packs.
The third shop close to me almost definitely does. Those guys are shady as heck and will do anything for money they can get away with without concern for their reputation. Having seen their practices, I would be shocked if they weren't box-mapping.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Collection:
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
It is a version of box mapping. Just a very poorly done version with inconsistent results and no pattern or use of technology or purpose.
That kind of boxmapping is like looking for a needle in a haystack with a shotgun.
But it's not really the same as box mapping, assuming he keeps the opened packs open and sells them as opened packs, that are known to not contain a Goyf.
The shady part about box mapping is the fraudulent claim that what you are selling contains the normal chance of containing any card in the set when the seller knows beforehand that the pack doesn't because they mapped it, thus defrauding the seller. If a store owner opened packs till he got a goyf, then sold the open packs with a notice that there was no goyf inside, I'd liken that closer to selling a repack than box mapping, since there is no fraud going on. The seller is aware of what they are buying.
Who sells 'opened packs' really? I understand repacks, but it's not a repacks if it's just the same cards.
I know my LGS doesn't box map. First, they don't buy/sell singles, and they are a franchise store. Secondly, the boxes are kept behind the counter so the seller can watch for funny business such as a kid opening up specific packs with a smartphone out.
"A rich man thinks all other people are rich, and an intelligent man thinks all other people are similarly gifted. Both are always terribly shocked when they discover the truth of the world. You, my dear brother, are a pious man." - Strahd von Zarovich
I suspect the shop I am recently starting to attend, but I don't have any concrete evidence. As such, I will still go there for singles and only but a pack if I suspect my luck is good with Modern Masters packs only because those are hard to find and there are some goodies I want. I am also trying to get them to notice my interest in Legacy because I suspect some players around there have deep pockets for decks.
No. In fact, my LGS will open the box and shuffle all the packs in the box around so customers can't box map a new box to try to pull the "good" cards.
Our LGS is run by a real standup guy who's a long time friend. You never have to worry about getting cheated there. In fact, two straight weeks once, I pulled 2 Liliana's for my FNM pack.
The guy is tops.
I hate this pack mixing, only because I have a specific OCD pack choosing and this screws me up. But I understand its need to do this.
Recently, they brought the price of their standard events down a few dollars, but my friend pointed out that a DGM box mapping tool was just released on the market.
Do you know if your LGS boxmaps? What would you do if you found out? How would you confront one if you suspected they did?
Sales Thread
Because I know a game store that does this exact same thing.
It's pretty sketchy
Hopefully the small sample size you had was just the exception, rather than the rule, for this store.
I forgot to mention five RTR packs I won for winning a draft and the two packs of RTR a friend and I opened after a recent FNM. So it's more like 22.
Packs not in boxes, packs cheaper than anywhere in the state by a substantial amount, trying to sell a Modern Masters box for than eBay prices on release day instead of drafting it; the behavior is wayyyy too suspicious. And since the owner is always present I'm not going to question it while in the store. I'm not going to chock it up to pure luck as to why I haven't seen a single shock land or non-jank rare or mythic.
This is what my LGS does. Every time they open a box, they take each pack out, shuffle them, and put them back in the box.
Our LGS is run by a real standup guy who's a long time friend. You never have to worry about getting cheated there. In fact, two straight weeks once, I pulled 2 Liliana's for my FNM pack.
The guy is tops.
I know at least one of mine does not. I have seen them open a box of a set that is selling pretty fast before the other one is empty and merge the two with some random groupings.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Sig by Ace of Spades studio at http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=451747
I'm a child playing an adult's card game.
Esper CONTROL: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10441008&postcount=239
I'm a Rules Advisor. Woo-hoo.
Gamer's Armory in Raleigh, NC. Best bad store ever.
One is five minutes away from my house and I pretty much never buy anything but singles there because they're your typical sort of card shop: sketchy in the extreme. They gouge on any product they think they can. They went several weeks with having only three DGM boxes in the store after the initial release died down only to have five boxes unsealed sitting on their counter last week after the box map came out.
The other is about a half hour away from my house and deals so much in RPGs, board games, and wargames that CCGs are barely a consideration for them. They recently moved their MTG boosters behind the counter due to shoplifters, but they most certainly do not box map. They don't even charge above MSRP for From the Vault, and the MMA box I got from them I got for slightly under MSRP after my frequent buyer discount was applied.
There's a third place in a mall between the two, but they're more your typical sort of mall novelty shop than anything else. There's also a fourth place a bit further than the second one that I've never shopped at because I found out they have a pack resealer. After all, who needs a box map when you can just open all the boosters, take out anything remotely good, and then seal up the junk again when you're done?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
To be fair, somebody was going to open that goyf, and they could have opened several boxes before opening one. This is not mapping, this is just a store owner wanting to open a goyf really badly.
It is a version of box mapping. Just a very poorly done version with inconsistent results and no pattern or use of technology or purpose.
That kind of boxmapping is like looking for a needle in a haystack with a shotgun.
I'm pretty sure the big shop in town doesn't either but some of the players there might since I don't think they shuffle their packs.
The third shop close to me almost definitely does. Those guys are shady as heck and will do anything for money they can get away with without concern for their reputation. Having seen their practices, I would be shocked if they weren't box-mapping.
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
But it's not really the same as box mapping, assuming he keeps the opened packs open and sells them as opened packs, that are known to not contain a Goyf.
The shady part about box mapping is the fraudulent claim that what you are selling contains the normal chance of containing any card in the set when the seller knows beforehand that the pack doesn't because they mapped it, thus defrauding the seller. If a store owner opened packs till he got a goyf, then sold the open packs with a notice that there was no goyf inside, I'd liken that closer to selling a repack than box mapping, since there is no fraud going on. The seller is aware of what they are buying.
I know my LGS doesn't box map. First, they don't buy/sell singles, and they are a franchise store. Secondly, the boxes are kept behind the counter so the seller can watch for funny business such as a kid opening up specific packs with a smartphone out.
Quacker is right, this is not mapping. The term for this is "parring".
Mapping is concerned with predicting the contents of sealed product before they are opened.
Parring is concerned with assigning value to the packs you have opened and determining when to stop opening packs.
All of this is on suspicion of course!
I hate this pack mixing, only because I have a specific OCD pack choosing and this screws me up. But I understand its need to do this.
And at the end of the day they throw out the other boosters and start with a sealed box in the morning, right?