Geist of st. Tract is strictly better than a vanilla 3 drop.
Everything is strictly better than vizzidrix.
It's your turn.
I'm at two life and control a tapped Suture Priest. You are at one life. In that situation would you rather control Geist of Saint Traft or a vanilla 2/2?
I don't know what your definition of strictly better is, but yours didn't have a satisfying response yet so I figured it was the best example left. This is why I think the "better in every situation" thing is stupid. It almost never happens where one card is actually strictly better under this definition to the point that it's meaningless. The deck construction definition is much better
I'm at two life and control a tapped Suture Priest. You are at one life. In that situation would you rather control Geist of Saint Traft or a vanilla 2/2?
I don't know what your definition of strictly better is, but yours didn't have a satisfying response yet so I figured it was the best example left. This is why I think the "better in every situation" thing is stupid. It almost never happens where one card is actually strictly better under this definition to the point that it's meaningless. The deck construction definition is much better
I don't think we are. I was being very literal to prove a point but it sounds like you agree with me. (eg. Lightning Bolt is strictly better than Shock because given the choice to run Lightning Bolt in a deck it would never be overshadowed by Shock even if super niche scenarios make it so Shock[/CARD] would be the better card in hand)
Galvanic Blast seems better than Shock in every situation I can think of
Galvanic Blast is generally better than Shock, but you would prefer to use Shock to kill an opposing Mogg Maniac, assuming you controlled 3 or more artifacts.
The 'worst' direct damage spell to compare to isn't even Shock - ever heard of Scorching Spear (not Searing)?
You would prefer not to waste your galvanic blast on a (random x/2 or less creature) when you could kill it with a shock?
And the reason why you don't want to waste galvanic blast on a mogg fanatic but are conversely ready to throw a shock at it?
Because galvanic blast is better than shock.
Another card that is strictly better than shock; burst lightning
Wrong. That is not the definition of strictly better.
Saying lightning bolt is strictly better than shock means that you will always pick lightning bolt over Shock when contsructing your deck. Not that is it better in every imaginable scenario.
This guy gets it right.
There is ALWAYS a scenario where you could argue a card is better than another.
Even if someone said Black Lotus is strictly better than Lotus Petal (in formats where they are both legal) you could argue "what if they have a Phyrexian Revoker naming 'Black Lotus'"?
Arguments of Lightning Bolt not being strictly better than shock due to misdirection effects like seriously, if you're going to argue like this then there is no card that's strictly better than any other card.
This includes the OP's definition where a card has multiple options containing another card. Because in these situations you could argue that you get Mind Slaver'ed (someone takes control of your turn) and now has more options to screw yourself over.
ABU duals are strictly better than Shocklands in all situations.
I have Near-Death Experience out and I'm at 3 life. If I have a shockland, I can shock myself down to 1 and win with NDE. I can't do that with an ABU dual. You can also substitute in other cards that care about life totals, such as Pulse of the Forge.
Strictly better doesn't exist in Magic. WotC's definition of "strictly better" is technically incorrect, because you cannot ignore corner cases when trying to figure out of card A is strictly better than card B.
My definition has always been "in a vacuum" - for example. if there are no other permanents in play (possibly excepting basic lands), does one obsolete the other? I know it's not perfect, but since I don't have to use my definition to win any arguments or for anything outside of my own head, it works.
You and your opponent are each at 2. Your opponent attacks with a Suture Priest and a 3/3 Beast token. Which would you rather have?
With that said, I generally agree that Penumbra Spider should be considered strictly better than Giant Spider, Bolt to Shock, etc. I think that "strictly better" has a Magic the Gathering definition that differs from the normal definition of "strictly better", and agree with the "which one would you build your deck with" sentiment.
You and your opponent are each at 2. Your opponent attacks with a Suture Priest and a 3/3 Beast token. Which would you rather have?
With that said, I generally agree that Penumbra Spider should be considered strictly better than Giant Spider, Bolt to Shock, etc. I think that "strictly better" has a Magic the Gathering definition that differs from the normal definition of "strictly better", and agree with the "which one would you build your deck with" sentiment.
Well bolt to shock assumes your opponent doesn't have a fork in hand so if you want insane hypotheticals a card can never ever been strictly better because your opponent could always have the exact card that manages to exploit the minute difference in cards.
you can actually come quite close with Moldervine Cloak and Oakenform. Disregarding stuff like Mindslaver, Meddling Mage, etc, which affects every possible card pairing, I believe that Cloak is strictly better. it has an additional ability but it's optional and it only functions out of your own graveyard, so there's no way for your opponent to take advantage of it
a similar one is Search for Tomorrow and a card I forgot the name of that's the same as Search but without suspend
It's your turn.
I'm at two life and control a tapped Suture Priest. You are at one life. In that situation would you rather control Geist of Saint Traft or a vanilla 2/2?
I don't know what your definition of strictly better is, but yours didn't have a satisfying response yet so I figured it was the best example left. This is why I think the "better in every situation" thing is stupid. It almost never happens where one card is actually strictly better under this definition to the point that it's meaningless. The deck construction definition is much better
Now we're just arguing semantics.
Strict /= Absolutely
I don't think we are. I was being very literal to prove a point but it sounds like you agree with me. (eg. Lightning Bolt is strictly better than Shock because given the choice to run Lightning Bolt in a deck it would never be overshadowed by Shock even if super niche scenarios make it so Shock[/CARD] would be the better card in hand)
XXXX
Modern
URTwinRU R.I.P.
EDH
WUGRoon of the Hidden RealmWUG
Galvanic Blast is generally better than Shock, but you would prefer to use Shock to kill an opposing Mogg Maniac, assuming you controlled 3 or more artifacts.
The 'worst' direct damage spell to compare to isn't even Shock - ever heard of Scorching Spear (not Searing)?
Mogg MANIAC, not Mogg Fanatic. Agreed on Burst Lightning always being better than Shock.
This guy gets it right.
There is ALWAYS a scenario where you could argue a card is better than another.
Even if someone said Black Lotus is strictly better than Lotus Petal (in formats where they are both legal) you could argue "what if they have a Phyrexian Revoker naming 'Black Lotus'"?
Arguments of Lightning Bolt not being strictly better than shock due to misdirection effects like seriously, if you're going to argue like this then there is no card that's strictly better than any other card.
This includes the OP's definition where a card has multiple options containing another card. Because in these situations you could argue that you get Mind Slaver'ed (someone takes control of your turn) and now has more options to screw yourself over.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Wood Elemental
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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I have Near-Death Experience out and I'm at 3 life. If I have a shockland, I can shock myself down to 1 and win with NDE. I can't do that with an ABU dual. You can also substitute in other cards that care about life totals, such as Pulse of the Forge.
Strictly better doesn't exist in Magic. WotC's definition of "strictly better" is technically incorrect, because you cannot ignore corner cases when trying to figure out of card A is strictly better than card B.
So, Trained Orgg is strictly better than Vizzerdrix? Does that mean red is strictly better than blue.
Anyways, Ancestral Recall is strictly better than Divination.
Kodama's Reach and Desperate Ritual sre strictly better than Cultivate and Pyretic Ritual respectively.
My definition has always been "in a vacuum" - for example. if there are no other permanents in play (possibly excepting basic lands), does one obsolete the other? I know it's not perfect, but since I don't have to use my definition to win any arguments or for anything outside of my own head, it works.
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
You and your opponent are each at 2. Your opponent attacks with a Suture Priest and a 3/3 Beast token. Which would you rather have?
With that said, I generally agree that Penumbra Spider should be considered strictly better than Giant Spider, Bolt to Shock, etc. I think that "strictly better" has a Magic the Gathering definition that differs from the normal definition of "strictly better", and agree with the "which one would you build your deck with" sentiment.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
Well bolt to shock assumes your opponent doesn't have a fork in hand so if you want insane hypotheticals a card can never ever been strictly better because your opponent could always have the exact card that manages to exploit the minute difference in cards.
Technically not, as Penumbra Spider costs two colored mana while Giant Spider costs just one, making the later more splashable.
What if the store where you are won't accept bills that large?
If you have any comments, or notice any mistakes, please let me know.
Bolded part is key. I guess this thread is more about how "Reasonable" you are or how "Reasonable" the games of magic you play are.
Anything that involves what Conley Woods would describe as 'Magical Christmas Land' is not under the purview of reasonable play and/or situations.
Edit: This thread is basically just people coming up with inane and insane situations to troll others.
Legacy Decks:
Legendary Maverick GW
a similar one is Search for Tomorrow and a card I forgot the name of that's the same as Search but without suspend
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