If it were actually sold at Walmart it would actually help people enter the format. Wizards was too worried about the people who make a living off the secondary market for some reason though:(
The bad thing is that WotC blatantly lies to their customer base and they just don't care (both WotC and their players). Lately they've sold us such wonderful gems as:
(1) They made it a short-print run to see how well it takes with their customers. Already they're talking a second print-run because they didn't expect demand to be as high as it is. Which segues into this:
(2) They designed the set to be drafted. By short-printing it as an experiment of course. Since when you design a set "to be drafted" it makes sense to do a short-print run on it so nobody can actually get it. I'm willing to bet that 95%+ of Modern Masters packs never see draft. You know why? They'll go straight into players Modern decks and fill out their play-sets. People will buy singles...maybe a box or two. Even though serious players always talk about the negative EV of buying boxes they still do it anyway. At $250/box on average for this set.
(3) Don't actually talk about how the mythic dragon cycle is in the set because they're bombs in limited and it was meant to be drafted. That's absurd thinking. They're jank cards to fill out the mythic slots so that you can pull them instead of mythics you might need like Tarmagoyf, Vendilion Clique, or Dark Confidant in your box that you buy for $250. Which is supposedly the reason they printed the set in the first place - to alleviate the problems with price spikes and card shortages in Modern.
WotC has extremely stupid customers in regards to Magic. They weren't the first company to figure out how to consistently abuse their customer base and not have them give a flying...that honor belongs to Games Workshop. Who practices the exact same tactics for selling by making new editions for Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40,000 and than making some of your models obsolete or worse so you have to buy new ones. Rinse and Repeat.
The funniest lie sold by both companies is how they're still somehow always making record sales and bringing in a record number of new customers even though they constantly offer less than premium services and products to them.
By size in the gaming industry it's currently:
Number one - Wizards of the Coast.
Number two - Games Workshop.
Number three - Fantasy Flight Games.
Fantasy Flight Games is consistently better than both of them at the moment. They offer better products and they actually make sure that you can get the products you need for the same prices as everybody else.
The first two consistently don't. Which means that there are always customers who get spit on because they haven't been a customer long enough. Or didn't get in early enough. Or weren't fortunate enough to be born when the game came out. Or don't have the same bankroll as other people and can't afford 150% MSRP when it's artificially forced for no intelligent reason. It's a business and their goal is to make money. Of course it is. Somehow they treat their customers like crap and still manage to pull it off successfully. Congrats to both of them. Let's take a look at these three companies again in ten years. Pretty sure that Fantasy Flight will be bigger than both of them.
Do you honestly think that meeting demand for a product and supplying it to as many customers that want it is somehow worse business than short-printing limited product and somehow makes them less happy? Or makes a company less money? The happier your customers are that they can get what they want (at a reasonable price) the more they trust you to do right by them. The more you do cute, neat things, and go "Screw you! Can't get it! It's all special-like!" the more they despise you for it.
But that's just me.
You are one of those ppl that really annoys me. Having the dragons at Mythic, as someone else noted, means you are more likely to get MORE of the other money rares that you want to get, based on rarity. You don't seem to get that.....and I don't really care.
Nice post in regards to rares. Short-print running a set that you're doing specifically to help alleviate the problems with price spikes and rare availability (supposedly) is useful in what way? It doesn't fix the problem that you're supposedly attempting to fix. Wouldn't you think think that they would just print that set in large enough numbers to make their customers happy? Apparently not.
Also - why would you design a set, sell it specifically in box quantities for draft (24 packs - eight people, three packs each), and than....short-print it? That seems counter-intuitive to me.
Than again they're going to do another print run of it. It might sell for MSRP the second time around instead of $250/box. There's a good chance that it might get drafted as well the second time. Since that's what they designed it for. Or did they design it to fix problems with availability in Modern? I'm going with neither...it's a money grab. It works and they're good at it since their customer base accepts a lot of abuse happily out of loyalty. Just like Games Workshop customers.
I'm getting a box at MSRP since I know which stores aren't going to price gouge on me. So I can also take the usual attitude of Magic players and be happy that other people are getting screwed on this.
I'm getting a box at MSRP since I know which stores aren't going to price gouge on me. So I can also take the usual attitude of Magic players and be happy that other people are getting screwed on this.
Complain about availability and prices while you're getting one at MSRP? How noble of you. Also, stop whining.
(1) They made it a short-print run to see how well it takes with their customers. Already they're talking a second print-run because they didn't expect demand to be as high as it is.
Link? I have read nothing from Wizards that even hints at a second print run. There is a second small release a couple weeks after the original, but it is all part of the same print-run.
Check your facts before posting, because my russian black bordered modern framed blood moon from my Enchantress confirms the opposite
*in English. Better? For most players in the states, finding non-English versions is the only way to get modern black borders, and they usually come at a premium for that reason.
As for the second print run, there is a lot of conjecture based on the fact that MM has a reorder code, unlike most premium products. Theoretically, that means that Wizards has left it open to more product being sold. And FWIW, my local wholesaler has told me there is "damn good chance" (his words) that a second wave will be coming out fairly soon. Wizards really, really messed up with Chronicles and it took a long time for the vendors and TOs (the people who really sell the brand) to trust them again, so they can be forgiven for being careful when they really had no obligation to do anything at all.
One thing a lot of people are forgetting about the draft design is that MODO is drafted far heavier than paper Magic. Even if your store is only firing one or two drafts off, MODO will have thousands. Nevermind the horrible pricing and prize structure on MM drafts, online drafts will still be an order of magnititude more popular than paper drafts.
Here is the one problem with MM; anything that is getting new art (and the playerbase finds it more appealing) causes the NEW print to cost more.
Also, I personally would play Modern (and I would venture that more players would) if cards were cheaper like Goyf, Thoughtseize and the like. If you are a player and choose to play green in Modern, chances are Tarmogoyf goes in that deck (unless ur playing elves). That is 4 cards out of 75, and you already at ~ $500.
Making these cards at least a semi-bearable price can only help the format.
*in English. Better? For most players in the states, finding non-English versions is the only way to get modern black borders, and they usually come at a premium for that reason.
As for the second print run, there is a lot of conjecture based on the fact that MM has a reorder code, unlike most premium products. Theoretically, that means that Wizards has left it open to more product being sold. And FWIW, my local wholesaler has told me there is "damn good chance" (his words) that a second wave will be coming out fairly soon.
Again, that is not a second printing, it is just a staggered release to make sure product is in stores longer. There is a small second order that each shop can receive, but all the cards come from the same printing.
My biggest complaint is that the stated purpose of the set by WotC is to help new players get into the modern format. That's a good idea, unfortunately, from my perspective (a player looking forward to this set to get into modern), it's not going to help me get into modern at all as all of the product has been preordered by players who already play modern.
I still think the limited print run on this was a terrible idea.
I mean, the set was made to in flux Modern staples, was it not?
I can go out and get a playset of Goyf, BoB and Clique, for LESS than I would pay for 3 boxes of this set. And these are the most expensive cards in the set.
My biggest complaint is that the stated purpose of the set by WotC is to help new players get into the modern format. That's a good idea, unfortunately, from my perspective (a player looking forward to this set to get into modern), it's not going to help me get into modern at all as all of the product has been preordered by players who already play modern.
It still helps, maybe just not as directly or as much as you had hoped. This increases the supply of cards used in Modern, and more copies mean they'll be easier to get and prices will go down. That doesn't mean they got the exact number right, but I think the concept of keeping it limited is the right call.
The limited print run serves at least two purposes. It's a safety valve to prevent cards from completely tanking in secondary market value, which is a concern to some collectors but more importantly to stores. WotC is trying to walk the tightrope between lowering the prices of staples to the point that they're obtainable for most people, while not completely tanking the value of chase cards to the point that they become worthless.
The other thing a limited print run does is give them opportunity to do it again in future. If they flood the market the first time, then there would be no point to ever doing it again. I think that for the overall health of the game, it's better to have a smaller injection of cards into the market every few years rather than a one time flooding.
The EV of a booster even assuming MASSIVE DEPRECIATION is $10. Without, it's $15. You're more than getting your money's worth. Even at $300 a box is probably worth the investment.
The store I run events for is getting 17 boxes. 6 are being sold @MSRP to the first 6 people who walk in to buy them, and the rest is being drafted @ $25.00 a draft. I myself am a little disappointed with some of the junk (to me) put into the set. So many other good modern cards could have been included. Thoughtsieze needed to be reprinted.
Not all the boxes have been sold to Modern players. I actually have one specifically ordered to flip. I am dropping Magic and have thought about including the Modern Masters sealed box to get rid of all the jank I have collected.
The other is mainly a sports card store and I have one of the 3 boxes they're getting reserved.
No lie you might have just saved me from not getting modern masters at all as i forgot there was a similiar store near me and i have to agree there is a lot of garbage in the set and not worth the money. The set gave me a good size list of singles to buy instead of packs or a box.
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Quiet a shame that WOTC decided to take this stance and maintain it. By choosing to only allow Hobby shops instead of the big-and-bad retail stores like Walmart and Target, they cannot sell it as the msrp as listed. I have been to such big stores and often times, surprise surprise! They sell the ccg and tcg products at the listed MSRP.
I suppose its to keep the Hobby Shops in business, but concidentally by choosing to:
A) Sell big products to small stores.
B) Keep only small products to big stores.
C) Have the MSRP be actually flexible based on demand for it.
D) Made this product Modern Masters a limited print.
They shot themselves in the foot real good with this and Commander's Aresnal.
The people saying things like this are just trying to push their misery on others by assuming that Wizards is somehow hurt by this. Modern Masters is already a phenomenal success for Wizards and you can bet they will follow up on it. People are simply crying/whining because they set their expectations WAY too high for this set, instead of realizing the reality of the situation. Seriously this cryfest over Modern Masters is old.
Heres a thought: Please stop being very rude. If people complaining on the internet or outside of it is too much for you since its an everyday occurence I suggest you may want to stay away from forums at least Georg51 because you know why?
People always complain, nitpick, and rant on the internet about how they feel something is unfair to them. After all, power to them since its their freedom of speech.
Sure they may not always have the correct answer or their complaint may seem bad, but then I can just say and have said that your complaint of people complaining is just more "CRYING" as you put it.
I hope you understand that your complaint about how people complaining about Modern Masters or anything else is nothing new if you look at as like this in simple little sentence.
Same Thing Different Day.
If anyone is wondering, yes I dislike half-baked rude comments that could be borderline flaming.
Its hurting wizards in the fact that they could sell twice as much if not more if they chose to not limit the print run. Cool they are going to entirely sell out, but guess when they could have sold 2-X times as much they would still sell out.
Its hurting wizards in the fact that they could sell twice as much if not more if they chose to not limit the print run. Cool they are going to entirely sell out, but guess when they could have sold 2-X times as much they would still sell out.
That may be true, but printing more also carries with it more risk. A limited print run is less risky to the overall health of the game and the option is still there to print more later.
You are one of those ppl that really annoys me. Having the dragons at Mythic, as someone else noted, means you are more likely to get MORE of the other money rares that you want to get, based on rarity. You don't seem to get that.....and I don't really care.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
Also - why would you design a set, sell it specifically in box quantities for draft (24 packs - eight people, three packs each), and than....short-print it? That seems counter-intuitive to me.
Than again they're going to do another print run of it. It might sell for MSRP the second time around instead of $250/box. There's a good chance that it might get drafted as well the second time. Since that's what they designed it for. Or did they design it to fix problems with availability in Modern? I'm going with neither...it's a money grab. It works and they're good at it since their customer base accepts a lot of abuse happily out of loyalty. Just like Games Workshop customers.
I'm getting a box at MSRP since I know which stores aren't going to price gouge on me. So I can also take the usual attitude of Magic players and be happy that other people are getting screwed on this.
Complain about availability and prices while you're getting one at MSRP? How noble of you. Also, stop whining.
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Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
*in English. Better? For most players in the states, finding non-English versions is the only way to get modern black borders, and they usually come at a premium for that reason.
As for the second print run, there is a lot of conjecture based on the fact that MM has a reorder code, unlike most premium products. Theoretically, that means that Wizards has left it open to more product being sold. And FWIW, my local wholesaler has told me there is "damn good chance" (his words) that a second wave will be coming out fairly soon. Wizards really, really messed up with Chronicles and it took a long time for the vendors and TOs (the people who really sell the brand) to trust them again, so they can be forgiven for being careful when they really had no obligation to do anything at all.
One thing a lot of people are forgetting about the draft design is that MODO is drafted far heavier than paper Magic. Even if your store is only firing one or two drafts off, MODO will have thousands. Nevermind the horrible pricing and prize structure on MM drafts, online drafts will still be an order of magnititude more popular than paper drafts.
Modern:
UR Storm RU
RG Titanshift GR
MTGO: MrPajitnv (Yes I typo'd it)
Also, I personally would play Modern (and I would venture that more players would) if cards were cheaper like Goyf, Thoughtseize and the like. If you are a player and choose to play green in Modern, chances are Tarmogoyf goes in that deck (unless ur playing elves). That is 4 cards out of 75, and you already at ~ $500.
Making these cards at least a semi-bearable price can only help the format.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I mean, the set was made to in flux Modern staples, was it not?
I can go out and get a playset of Goyf, BoB and Clique, for LESS than I would pay for 3 boxes of this set. And these are the most expensive cards in the set.
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It still helps, maybe just not as directly or as much as you had hoped. This increases the supply of cards used in Modern, and more copies mean they'll be easier to get and prices will go down. That doesn't mean they got the exact number right, but I think the concept of keeping it limited is the right call.
The limited print run serves at least two purposes. It's a safety valve to prevent cards from completely tanking in secondary market value, which is a concern to some collectors but more importantly to stores. WotC is trying to walk the tightrope between lowering the prices of staples to the point that they're obtainable for most people, while not completely tanking the value of chase cards to the point that they become worthless.
The other thing a limited print run does is give them opportunity to do it again in future. If they flood the market the first time, then there would be no point to ever doing it again. I think that for the overall health of the game, it's better to have a smaller injection of cards into the market every few years rather than a one time flooding.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10278728
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No lie you might have just saved me from not getting modern masters at all as i forgot there was a similiar store near me and i have to agree there is a lot of garbage in the set and not worth the money. The set gave me a good size list of singles to buy instead of packs or a box.
Sig by Rivenor at miraculous recovery and Avatar by Ace5301 at five handed lizard
EDH
Ghave
Phelddagrif
Omnath
I suppose its to keep the Hobby Shops in business, but concidentally by choosing to:
A) Sell big products to small stores.
B) Keep only small products to big stores.
C) Have the MSRP be actually flexible based on demand for it.
D) Made this product Modern Masters a limited print.
They shot themselves in the foot real good with this and Commander's Aresnal.
The people saying things like this are just trying to push their misery on others by assuming that Wizards is somehow hurt by this.
Modern Masters is already a phenomenal success for Wizards and you can bet they will follow up on it.
People are simply crying/whining because they set their expectations WAY too high for this set, instead of realizing the reality of the situation.
Seriously this cryfest over Modern Masters is old.
People always complain, nitpick, and rant on the internet about how they feel something is unfair to them. After all, power to them since its their freedom of speech.
Sure they may not always have the correct answer or their complaint may seem bad, but then I can just say and have said that your complaint of people complaining is just more "CRYING" as you put it.
I hope you understand that your complaint about how people complaining about Modern Masters or anything else is nothing new if you look at as like this in simple little sentence.
If anyone is wondering, yes I dislike half-baked rude comments that could be borderline flaming.
That may be true, but printing more also carries with it more risk. A limited print run is less risky to the overall health of the game and the option is still there to print more later.
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