Ok, I wasn't sure if there already exists a thread like this. I googled searched, but nothing came up. MTGS doesn't have what I'm looking for at all. I could be just a dimwit, but here goes.
How do I use Liliana of the Veil?
When is it best to use each ability?
Most importantly, how do I use her last ability effectively?
Thanks all, and sorry if this is in the wrong section.
Use her -1 ability when you need to make an opponent sacrifice a creature.
use her +1 ability whenever you think you don't need your opponent to sacrifice a creature, and you think that the +1 loyalty and the card your opponent discards are more significant than a card that you can discard.(which should be most of the time)
use her -6 ability when she has 6 or more loyalty(whether or not you want to wait for 7 loyalty is dependent on how pressured you feel. try to make it such that both piles are as bad as you can make them. I like to take all the permanents and maybe 1 land and put them in a separate pile from all the lands.
Ahh, I see. I play MBC modern, and I was wondering if I should shell out for a LoTV (plus, it's a reasonable investment). I know she rules in Pox, since well... you know, it's Pox :thumbsup:.
Otherwise, thanks for the clarifying comments guys :D!
Ahh, I see. I play MBC modern, and I was wondering if I should shell out for a LoTV (plus, it's a reasonable investment). I know she rules in Pox, since well... you know, it's Pox :thumbsup:.
Otherwise, thanks for the clarifying comments guys :D!
You pair her with something like a Dark Confidant, +1 away, and win. Simple as that.
^Pretty much this. If you have enough card advantage, discarding won't be a problem too much. -2 will help you defend her too, which is mainly to target creatures you can't get rid of via ''classic'' removal. Always to protect her or the game itself, don't use the -2 ''just to use it''
And of course, the VERY best way to use it, use Liliana to pitch cards like Lingering Souls or even Cabal Therapy so you can Flashback them anyway. THe besy way, to be honest.
Extra lands, cards that are irrelevant against your opponent (for example: hand disruption when your opponent doesn't have any cards in hand), or cards that are better off in the graveyard like Bloodghast, Lingering Souls, Life from the Loam, etc.
Liliana actually requires that you build a deck around her. Honestly, most decks don't actually want to discard cards. Of course, making opponents sac creatures is always good (and sometimes, even your own), and her ultimate is always good if you can get that as well, but your deck has to be able to discard cards. If you play a liliana of the veil, your opponent doesn't have any creatures, but you don't want to discard any of the cards from your hand, you're basically just paying 3 for a preemptive edict effect which isn't that great. Like I said, you have to build your deck so that you can afford to pitch cards.
I think the best way for a deck with an average card advantage engine is -2, +1, -2. Lilianna is like a hockey powerplay. That's why she's so good. Something like Thragtusk will net you the same advantage, but Thragtusk brings a 5 v 5 situation into a 6 on 5 for you. Lili takes that 5 v 5 and turns it into a 3 on 2 for you.
Poor high school student here. Maybe MM will lower DC to like $10, but otherwise, he's out of my league.
Not happening. It won't even hit $30. Maybe future MM, but not this awfully done one. Especially with the awful bob art which people like because they don't understand what the rav bob is showing.
Ahh, I see. I play MBC modern, and I was wondering if I should shell out for a LoTV (plus, it's a reasonable investment). I know she rules in Pox, since well... you know, it's Pox :thumbsup:.
I wouldn't buy her for a MBC deck, just not a great fit unless you are specifically tuning it to take advantage of the forced self-discard somehow (most likely including a reanimation engine of some kind). In that kind of deck you aren't like to want to use the +1 all that often, and will just end up overpaying for the -2 effect most of the time.
Seriously, the best use ATM is trade her for $, as standard rotation is near.
I disagree with this sentiment. I think quite a bit of what's driving Liliana's price is her use in Modern. Don't see too many lists running her in Standard.
Liliana's price is not tied to type 2 in the least, its entirely driven by the eternal formats.
I would wait until right before Theros drops when her price would be at its lowest point and pick them up.
A resolved Liliana is real hard to beat, since you kill their likely only creature and then +1 them into oblivion. Like others have said before, she works incredibly well with Bobs and similar cards, also with Snapcaster, Lingering Souls, etc.
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Not sure where you're going with that. The rules change will still only allow you to have 1 of any Liliana out.
Post ~July 13, with multiples in hand/on board you can Edict > Play second Liliana/send original to yard > Repeat. There's no reason not to run the full 4 in any deck you'd want her in.
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Modern - RUG Delver RUG - Splinter Twin UR - Jund BRG
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
When you use her ultimate (Her -6 ability), it's useful to do what Sam I Am said and try to divide all their permanents plus one land into a pile and the rest of the land into another, but if you can play a card that let's you see their hand beforehand it's even better. You can note what color they're heavy on in their hand and use that to determine which land to put into the permanent pile.
For example, if you're playing against someone who is playing Blue with counterspells and draw and they only have two sources for Blue mana, you'd want to put one each in the two piles. This way, they can't use a draw spell to draw into a counter, or do something like Snapcaster Mage into a counterspell, etc. because all those plays require at least :symu::symu:. You want to use her -6 to disrupt them as much as possible. It'll probably be mid to late game before you get her -6 off, so they'll have a lot of land, so put the lands they'd have the hardest time recovering with into that land pile. If it's a deck that only splashes a color, do your best to deny them that splash because they won't operate as well without it.
On the subject of when to side in/out liliana, because it's important: side her out against the really fast aggro decks, unless you have a large removal suite to protect her with. Side her in against the slower tempo/control/midrange decks, where she can do a LOT of damage before being answered.
Use her +1 when you have an empty hand, excess land, duplicates of crap you don't need, etc. Use her -2 as protection and to keep their board presence supressed. Her -6 has been described well above.
As far as price...her price will probably dip briefly and slightly near rotation. After that...I can see her price going up fairly quickly. I wouldn't be surprised to see her at $100 in the next 2 years. She sees play everywhere. I run her as a 4 of in legacy pox, but she's in pretty much every black eternal deck. She's really super good.
Chaff: The husks of corn or other seed separated by winnowing or threshing.
Chaff is the part of the harvest you don't want (see the phrase "separating the wheat from the chaff"). In context, it's cards that aren't going to advance your game. Maybe you've already got all of the lands you need, and have still more in your hand. Maybe you've got a chard that's normally an answer to something nasty (like artifact/enchantment removal), but your opponent isn't playing any. That's chaff.
Liliana actually requires that you build a deck around her.
Not really. Building around her can make her +1 great, but all you need to make it good is either draw more than 1 card per turn. If you've got chaff to pitch, she's even still manageable without that.
Liliana's -6 depends heavily on the opponent's board state on how to split the piles; lands and nonland permanents is an easy choice, but splitting up two synergistic nonland permanents is something else to think about. Hell, activating the ability isn't necessarily the best choice, since getting her to -6 usually means you've already got control of the board, and it may be better to simply use her +1 or -2 again.
Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
Seriously, the best use ATM is trade her for $, as standard rotation is near.
No absolutely do not listen to this advice. When she was first printed, she was about 15$ but her price has exploded since then. It won't be coming down anytime soon. So if you were to sell her off now, you'll only be spending more money in the long run. Especially with the changes to the rules coming soon. Gaea's Cradle has just doubled in price since the last time I checked, I imagine Liliana of the Veil and Jace, the Mind Sculptor will have bumps as well.
No absolutely do not listen to this advice. When she was first printed, she was about 15$ but her price has exploded since then. It won't be coming down anytime soon. So if you were to sell her off now, you'll only be spending more money in the long run. Especially with the changes to the rules coming soon. Gaea's Cradle has just doubled in price since the last time I checked, I imagine Liliana of the Veil and Jace, the Mind Sculptor will have bumps as well.
Yeah, Liliana of the Veil is used outside of Standard, so Standard rotation isn't going to make her price plummet. (I'm super glad I just recently got a copy for my Thraximundar EDH deck.) The upcoming changes to the Planeswalker Uniqueness Rule will also likely increase the price of several 'walkers, or at least help them maintain value rather than decreasing.
How do I use Liliana of the Veil?
When is it best to use each ability?
Most importantly, how do I use her last ability effectively?
Thanks all, and sorry if this is in the wrong section.
use her +1 ability whenever you think you don't need your opponent to sacrifice a creature, and you think that the +1 loyalty and the card your opponent discards are more significant than a card that you can discard.(which should be most of the time)
use her -6 ability when she has 6 or more loyalty(whether or not you want to wait for 7 loyalty is dependent on how pressured you feel. try to make it such that both piles are as bad as you can make them. I like to take all the permanents and maybe 1 land and put them in a separate pile from all the lands.
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
Otherwise, thanks for the clarifying comments guys :D!
PS:
What's Chaff?
Modern
xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW
UWGBantUWG
GWRNaya ZooRWG
Dead cards, excess lands, etc.
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
^Pretty much this. If you have enough card advantage, discarding won't be a problem too much. -2 will help you defend her too, which is mainly to target creatures you can't get rid of via ''classic'' removal. Always to protect her or the game itself, don't use the -2 ''just to use it''
And of course, the VERY best way to use it, use Liliana to pitch cards like Lingering Souls or even Cabal Therapy so you can Flashback them anyway. THe besy way, to be honest.
Poor high school student here. Maybe MM will lower DC to like $10, but otherwise, he's out of my league.
Extra lands, cards that are irrelevant against your opponent (for example: hand disruption when your opponent doesn't have any cards in hand), or cards that are better off in the graveyard like Bloodghast, Lingering Souls, Life from the Loam, etc.
Liliana actually requires that you build a deck around her. Honestly, most decks don't actually want to discard cards. Of course, making opponents sac creatures is always good (and sometimes, even your own), and her ultimate is always good if you can get that as well, but your deck has to be able to discard cards. If you play a liliana of the veil, your opponent doesn't have any creatures, but you don't want to discard any of the cards from your hand, you're basically just paying 3 for a preemptive edict effect which isn't that great. Like I said, you have to build your deck so that you can afford to pitch cards.
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You could always try the more budget options, like Phyrexian Arena, Underworld Connections, Bloodgift Demon or Dark Tutelage. The curve isn't quite as nice though.
I don't always post about Rafiq of the Many, but when I do, I cardlink to the original artwork, and not the supplementary product version.
"I trust myself to do my duty, even unto death. It's what comes after that I'm afraid of."
"Just fight without fear. Your soul is protected by the hand of Avacyn and will never submit to evil."
Just kidding. I respect Liliana in all of her incarnations.
The best way to use her last ability is to force your opponent to give up something no matter what he picks. So, just try to even out the piles.
Not happening. It won't even hit $30. Maybe future MM, but not this awfully done one. Especially with the awful bob art which people like because they don't understand what the rav bob is showing.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
I wouldn't buy her for a MBC deck, just not a great fit unless you are specifically tuning it to take advantage of the forced self-discard somehow (most likely including a reanimation engine of some kind). In that kind of deck you aren't like to want to use the +1 all that often, and will just end up overpaying for the -2 effect most of the time.
When the rules change?
In multiples.
Not sure where you're going with that. The rules change will still only allow you to have 1 of any Liliana out.
I disagree with this sentiment. I think quite a bit of what's driving Liliana's price is her use in Modern. Don't see too many lists running her in Standard.
I would wait until right before Theros drops when her price would be at its lowest point and pick them up.
A resolved Liliana is real hard to beat, since you kill their likely only creature and then +1 them into oblivion. Like others have said before, she works incredibly well with Bobs and similar cards, also with Snapcaster, Lingering Souls, etc.
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Signature by myself. PM if you'd like a custom sig.
I collect Descent into Madness (25 Eng foil, 1 Jpn Foil, 6 Jpn, 95 Eng)
Decks:
I don't even know anymore
Modern
RUG Eternal Command GUR
UW Caw Blade WU
BGU Vampires UGB
UBG Delver GBU
UBR Delver RBU
BWR Italia Demigod RWB
Post ~July 13, with multiples in hand/on board you can Edict > Play second Liliana/send original to yard > Repeat. There's no reason not to run the full 4 in any deck you'd want her in.
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
When you use her ultimate (Her -6 ability), it's useful to do what Sam I Am said and try to divide all their permanents plus one land into a pile and the rest of the land into another, but if you can play a card that let's you see their hand beforehand it's even better. You can note what color they're heavy on in their hand and use that to determine which land to put into the permanent pile.
For example, if you're playing against someone who is playing Blue with counterspells and draw and they only have two sources for Blue mana, you'd want to put one each in the two piles. This way, they can't use a draw spell to draw into a counter, or do something like Snapcaster Mage into a counterspell, etc. because all those plays require at least :symu::symu:. You want to use her -6 to disrupt them as much as possible. It'll probably be mid to late game before you get her -6 off, so they'll have a lot of land, so put the lands they'd have the hardest time recovering with into that land pile. If it's a deck that only splashes a color, do your best to deny them that splash because they won't operate as well without it.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Use her +1 when you have an empty hand, excess land, duplicates of crap you don't need, etc. Use her -2 as protection and to keep their board presence supressed. Her -6 has been described well above.
As far as price...her price will probably dip briefly and slightly near rotation. After that...I can see her price going up fairly quickly. I wouldn't be surprised to see her at $100 in the next 2 years. She sees play everywhere. I run her as a 4 of in legacy pox, but she's in pretty much every black eternal deck. She's really super good.
Loam Pox
Standard:
Boros Burn
Chaff is the part of the harvest you don't want (see the phrase "separating the wheat from the chaff"). In context, it's cards that aren't going to advance your game. Maybe you've already got all of the lands you need, and have still more in your hand. Maybe you've got a chard that's normally an answer to something nasty (like artifact/enchantment removal), but your opponent isn't playing any. That's chaff.
Not really. Building around her can make her +1 great, but all you need to make it good is either draw more than 1 card per turn. If you've got chaff to pitch, she's even still manageable without that.
Liliana's -6 depends heavily on the opponent's board state on how to split the piles; lands and nonland permanents is an easy choice, but splitting up two synergistic nonland permanents is something else to think about. Hell, activating the ability isn't necessarily the best choice, since getting her to -6 usually means you've already got control of the board, and it may be better to simply use her +1 or -2 again.
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Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingNo absolutely do not listen to this advice. When she was first printed, she was about 15$ but her price has exploded since then. It won't be coming down anytime soon. So if you were to sell her off now, you'll only be spending more money in the long run. Especially with the changes to the rules coming soon. Gaea's Cradle has just doubled in price since the last time I checked, I imagine Liliana of the Veil and Jace, the Mind Sculptor will have bumps as well.
Yeah, Liliana of the Veil is used outside of Standard, so Standard rotation isn't going to make her price plummet. (I'm super glad I just recently got a copy for my Thraximundar EDH deck.) The upcoming changes to the Planeswalker Uniqueness Rule will also likely increase the price of several 'walkers, or at least help them maintain value rather than decreasing.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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