They stick together after some of use or are under compression for a while. The sleeves are all curvy when they are new and they need to flatten out before they are stable.
My friend uses penny sleeves and they work just fine.
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My friend uses penny sleeves and they work just fine.
Not if he/she has expensive cards and cares at all about their condition. Penny sleeves are almost worse than not sleeving your deck since they can trap dirt in between the card and the sleeve so easily due to being so loose and open, and that dirt will grind itself into the card and cause bad scratches. Literally the only use I can think of for a penny sleeve is as a first layer of protection before putting in a top-loader before shipping a trade.
i'll post what i have for a "budget" sleeving method. So for my casual decks i have them in ultra pros (any variety except their perfect fits) in penny sleeves, this lets me feel fine with playing more expensive cards while also letting me replace the penny sleeves if they get too awful, which they don't do very often.
For my legacy deck, i actually have it triple sleeved, but double sleeve it when i have to take it to a tournament. I use the usual kmc perfect fit and when im playing casual it is in this format: perfect fit > ultra pro > penny sleeve.
In tournaments its perfect fit > KMC or dragonshields.
I've personally moved away from just penny sleeves unless the deck is under 5$, then i really don't care. And since i was able to get some ultra pro mattes cheap recently i was able to sleeve up the rest of my casual/edh decks.
Basically, i use penny sleeves to extend the lifespan of both my competitive and casual sleeves (ultra pros and Dragonshield/KMC).
Would like to hear opinions from players that used both KMC Matte and KMC Hyper Mat sleeves extensively. Has anyone of you returned back to Matte from Hyper or consider doing this?
I like all my sleeves being the same for easier card switching between decks, but I'm running out of Matte sleeves. So i'm thinking if I should just order additional Matte sleeves or should I just wait and then make a mass replacement of all sleeves to Hyper mat?
Basically just want to know if Hyper Mat is a hands-down superior product of the two.
Personally I can see no going back from Hyper-Mat. They are just perfect, IMO, and even though I still have some older decks in KMC matte, if I but new sleeves they will be hyper-mat.
My friend uses penny sleeves and they work just fine.
Not if he/she has expensive cards and cares at all about their condition. Penny sleeves are almost worse than not sleeving your deck since they can trap dirt in between the card and the sleeve so easily due to being so loose and open, and that dirt will grind itself into the card and cause bad scratches. Literally the only use I can think of for a penny sleeve is as a first layer of protection before putting in a top-loader before shipping a trade.
Drafting when you open nothing you care about? But even then you can just keep a supply of cheap Ultra Pros handy. Even old, beaten-up Ultra Pros are going to be better than penny sleeves. The point of penny sleeves is they're the cheapest possible sleeves you can get, but the quality dropoff is such that there's really no point to them. Either you can afford to play Magic, or you can't. The only market I can think of for such a cheap product is, like, people who buy just like intro products or whatever and play casually with no continued investment.
I don't get the hate for penny sleeves, ive used them for the majority of my early magic playing career and my cards have been kept in pristine condition using them, if you are getting your cards dirty using penny sleeves then your doing something seriously wrong as i've kept bobs and other older staples for 5 years+ in them and youd never expect them to ever have been played with. I'd actually prefer penny sleeves over ultra pros and other varieties, the only difference of course is that those ones are opaque and necessary in higher level tournaments for obvious reasons.
I don't use penny sleeves anymore by themselves, only for the fact that i like having my cards double sleeves so they are opaque and durable. The argument that penny sleeves are almost as bad as none is absolutely bogus, the jump from no sleeves to pennies is huge, whereas penny sleeves to ultra pro/KMC is marginal.
I agree that penny sleeves protect your cards just as well as any other type of sleeve. Me and my brothers have had our casual decks with duals in them in penny sleeves since 1994 and people who have seen my duals remark how pristine their condition is. The bad part is how easily they split and not being double-sleeved can lead to water damage if water were spilled on them. Ultra Pro playing card sleeves were invented to withstand shuffling better, not because they somehow protect your cards better. In fact, I prefer to keep expensive cards in penny sleeves as you won't damage them by the process of putting them into the sleeve, as old cards chip easily, putting them in hard sleeves can chip their corners if you are not careful.
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—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
I'm working on building Modern Jund and I've heard good things from players double eeving with KMC Hyper Matte Sleeves with some sort of Perfect Fit, I'm confused as to how people sleeve them. Do you put the card itself in the Perfect Fit inside the Hyper Matte? Or can you perfect fit the Hyper Matte sleeve itself?
I'm working on building Modern Jund and I've heard good things from players double eeving with KMC Hyper Matte Sleeves with some sort of Perfect Fit, I'm confused as to how people sleeve them. Do you put the card itself in the Perfect Fit inside the Hyper Matte? Or can you perfect fit the Hyper Matte sleeve itself?
You put the card upside down in the KMC perfect fit (so that the open end is at the bottom of the card), and then put that right side up in the hyper mat sleeve.
Don't you get dirt smudges/specks on the sleeves though?
Dirt can still enter the top of the outer sleeve, but it won't touch the card due to the inner sleeve. If you play heavily, you may want to periodically clean off the inner sleeve to get the gunk off.
Don't you get dirt smudges/specks on the sleeves though?
Bacl has a series of videos reviewing product, and I am pretty sure on this one he demonstrates double sleeving to show how easy it is with hyper mats.
Would like to hear opinions from players that used both KMC Matte and KMC Hyper Mat sleeves extensively. Has anyone of you returned back to Matte from Hyper or consider doing this?
I like all my sleeves being the same for easier card switching between decks, but I'm running out of Matte sleeves. So i'm thinking if I should just order additional Matte sleeves or should I just wait and then make a mass replacement of all sleeves to Hyper mat?
Basically just want to know if Hyper Mat is a hands-down superior product of the two.
I bought a 10 pack of both the Hyper Matte and normal Matte sleeves and after using both quite extensively I personally prefer the normal Mattes. They are both excellent sleeves but I prefer the feeling of the non-textured Matte sleeves over the grainy texture on the Hyper Mattes. That said, the Hyper Mattes are the easier to shuffle of the two and durability of both is similar. I have split one or two of the Hyper Mattes, and zero of the normal Mattes after about six months of heavy use. When the Hyper Mattes did split they didn't do it catastrophically either; the plastic is pretty strong so they won't just tear open immediately like Ultra Pros do when they split (often damaging whatever poor card is inside if it's not double sleeved).
Something else worth noting also is that the Hyper Mattes are noticeably shorter than the normal Mattes. If you double sleeve the top of the card is just about flush with the top of the sleeve. I think in theory it would be easier to damage a card inside a Hyper Matte if you did a poor job shuffling for this reason, but I haven't had a problem so far. I also find the Hyper Matte to be a little tighter fit, and thus harder to double sleeve than the normal Matte.
A good way to think of it is the normal Matte Sleeves are like a better Dragon Shield, and the Hyper Mattes are like a better Ultra Pro in terms of feel. Personally, I think either KMC option is better than any of the competition. If you like the textured feel go with Hyper Matte, otherwise get the normal Matte.
Another user chiming in for Dragon Shield, my only complaint would be grime build up but I'd imagine that applies to all sleeves.
As to the penny sleeves, I might be one of the few players that ultimately prefers clear/opaque sleeves but since they aren't allowed/recommended for comp IRL...I'll settle for the colorful DS. ANyone here actually used the clear Dragon Shield ones? I'm interested in how they play.
Hello people,
So I have 18 decks without perfect sizes, and after realizing that they are a necessary evil I am thinking of investing 56€ (~75USD) in Sleeves. After a quick research I realized KMC perfect sizes are the best in the market, not only quality wise, but actual size too. But I couldn't find answer to two simple questions. Do KMC perfect sizes fit properly inside Ultra Pro standart size (69mm*91mm) sleeves? And if if so, will the 75 cards fit inside Ultra Pro, standart size, deck boxes?
Best regards,
Thread about sleeves merged into official Sleeves/Protectors Discussion thread -Cythare
Modern:...........................UWR UWR Geist of Saint Traft UWR
Legacy:..............................UW UW Stoneblade UW
French Commander:...UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Tiny Leaders:..................UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
KMC perfect fits are definitely the best. I have all my decks and valuable cards done in them. I would also recommend their Hyper Mat range. Limited colours, but they are very durable. I reserve these for my Legacy decks, and use Dragon Shield Turquoise for the rest.
Thanks for the quick and kind responses. I guess I'll buy them perfect sleeves now. I also would like to run Hypermat sleeves, but they are really very expensive and so far I really didn't have a problem with Ultra Pros. Also 54€ in Perfect Sizes is a hell of a investment to even considering changing 18 decks from UP to KMC.
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My decksies:
Modern:...........................UWR UWR Geist of Saint Traft UWR
Legacy:..............................UW UW Stoneblade UW
French Commander:...UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Tiny Leaders:..................UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Do remember that if you're buying a large amount of sleeves, you can get a bulk discount by ordering through something like potomacdist. (Potomacdist itself may not help if you're in Europe, but look around for something similar over there)
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Do remember that if you're buying a large amount of sleeves, you can get a bulk discount by ordering through something like potomacdist. (Potomacdist itself may not help if you're in Europe, but look around for something similar over there)
Yup. I've ordered from Potomac several times in the past. They ship quickly and it's much cheaper when you're resleeving everything.
Side note: I finally got my hands on some of the Ultra Pro Slayers. I was not impressed. They just felt like Dragon Shields to me. I only shuffled a friend's deck a few times with them, so I can't speak to their longevity. He didn't say much about them one way or the other, but he's not picky about his sleeves either.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
What are the best sleeves for someone who hates them sticking together that will work with ultra pro fit inner sleeves?
Thanks
I'm hoping that the ultra pro fit will work with hyper mat and that those don't stick because of all the positive things I'm hearing about them and from my experience with KMC sleeves before.
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For my legacy deck, i actually have it triple sleeved, but double sleeve it when i have to take it to a tournament. I use the usual kmc perfect fit and when im playing casual it is in this format: perfect fit > ultra pro > penny sleeve.
In tournaments its perfect fit > KMC or dragonshields.
I've personally moved away from just penny sleeves unless the deck is under 5$, then i really don't care. And since i was able to get some ultra pro mattes cheap recently i was able to sleeve up the rest of my casual/edh decks.
Basically, i use penny sleeves to extend the lifespan of both my competitive and casual sleeves (ultra pros and Dragonshield/KMC).
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
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Drafting when you open nothing you care about? But even then you can just keep a supply of cheap Ultra Pros handy. Even old, beaten-up Ultra Pros are going to be better than penny sleeves. The point of penny sleeves is they're the cheapest possible sleeves you can get, but the quality dropoff is such that there's really no point to them. Either you can afford to play Magic, or you can't. The only market I can think of for such a cheap product is, like, people who buy just like intro products or whatever and play casually with no continued investment.
I don't use penny sleeves anymore by themselves, only for the fact that i like having my cards double sleeves so they are opaque and durable. The argument that penny sleeves are almost as bad as none is absolutely bogus, the jump from no sleeves to pennies is huge, whereas penny sleeves to ultra pro/KMC is marginal.
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
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I agree, I have about 3 different ones. It's also frustrating that the edges of the sleeve turn white.
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
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#Purge
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I bought a 10 pack of both the Hyper Matte and normal Matte sleeves and after using both quite extensively I personally prefer the normal Mattes. They are both excellent sleeves but I prefer the feeling of the non-textured Matte sleeves over the grainy texture on the Hyper Mattes. That said, the Hyper Mattes are the easier to shuffle of the two and durability of both is similar. I have split one or two of the Hyper Mattes, and zero of the normal Mattes after about six months of heavy use. When the Hyper Mattes did split they didn't do it catastrophically either; the plastic is pretty strong so they won't just tear open immediately like Ultra Pros do when they split (often damaging whatever poor card is inside if it's not double sleeved).
Something else worth noting also is that the Hyper Mattes are noticeably shorter than the normal Mattes. If you double sleeve the top of the card is just about flush with the top of the sleeve. I think in theory it would be easier to damage a card inside a Hyper Matte if you did a poor job shuffling for this reason, but I haven't had a problem so far. I also find the Hyper Matte to be a little tighter fit, and thus harder to double sleeve than the normal Matte.
A good way to think of it is the normal Matte Sleeves are like a better Dragon Shield, and the Hyper Mattes are like a better Ultra Pro in terms of feel. Personally, I think either KMC option is better than any of the competition. If you like the textured feel go with Hyper Matte, otherwise get the normal Matte.
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
As to the penny sleeves, I might be one of the few players that ultimately prefers clear/opaque sleeves but since they aren't allowed/recommended for comp IRL...I'll settle for the colorful DS. ANyone here actually used the clear Dragon Shield ones? I'm interested in how they play.
So I have 18 decks without perfect sizes, and after realizing that they are a necessary evil I am thinking of investing 56€ (~75USD) in Sleeves. After a quick research I realized KMC perfect sizes are the best in the market, not only quality wise, but actual size too. But I couldn't find answer to two simple questions. Do KMC perfect sizes fit properly inside Ultra Pro standart size (69mm*91mm) sleeves? And if if so, will the 75 cards fit inside Ultra Pro, standart size, deck boxes?
Best regards,
Thread about sleeves merged into official Sleeves/Protectors Discussion thread -Cythare
Legacy:..............................UW UW Stoneblade UW
French Commander:...UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Tiny Leaders:..................UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
Legacy:..............................UW UW Stoneblade UW
French Commander:...UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Tiny Leaders:..................UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Yup. I've ordered from Potomac several times in the past. They ship quickly and it's much cheaper when you're resleeving everything.
Side note: I finally got my hands on some of the Ultra Pro Slayers. I was not impressed. They just felt like Dragon Shields to me. I only shuffled a friend's deck a few times with them, so I can't speak to their longevity. He didn't say much about them one way or the other, but he's not picky about his sleeves either.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Thanks
I'm hoping that the ultra pro fit will work with hyper mat and that those don't stick because of all the positive things I'm hearing about them and from my experience with KMC sleeves before.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!