To be frank the reserved list is a trap. The main reason cards on the list have value are the same reasons modern cards and non reserved list cards do: they see play in tournaments and in commander. If wizards makes a product that allows modern to get cards without going through standard, it basically solves the RL problem by making modern fill the role of legacy. They could take all the crazy stuff from legacy that isn't RL and just transplant those cards into modern.
Wouldn't that be virtually guaranteed to kill modern as it currently exists? It would be modern in name only, as cards like Force of Will etc showed up.
As Colt eluded to, a product that directly puts supply of reprints AND new cards - we must also insist that WoTC includes new cards outright - into Modern (why stop at only Modern, I think, let's shoot for Eternal formats as a whole) would mean that all of the conceptual limitations of Standard and imposed constraints of the Limited/Draft environment would no longer be a factor for these Eternal formats. This is a huuuuge point to be made - that Standard is limiting the number of quality reprints and outright new cards on the necessary power level for Eternal formats and thus needs to be bypassed outright with new products containing format bypassing cards.
Doing this would make all Eternal formats flourish, like we've never seen before.
My thoughts are the RL problem has nothing to do with the RL and everything to do with how modern is constrained by standard. You cant get what legacy offers in modern if they keep limiting what can be modern legal.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So,like I said at some point about writing a letter well here it is:
and I am writing you regarding the actions of the subsidiary company Wizards of the Coast. The actions in question are regarding a policy that is turning out to be detrimental to players of the collectible card game: “Magic: The Gathering”. The policy in question is entitled “OFFICIAL REPRINT POLICY” and I have enclosed a separate page with it in full, and what follows is the gist of the policy:
[policy here]
This absurd policy has been in place for coming on close to twenty-five years. When it was first created it made sense since no one at the time had thought that the game would last as long as it has. However, over time the policy became another form of investment for those who could afford or be lucky enough to have gotten ahold of cards that have in some cases become equal to the value of some cars at retail price. This was never the intended outcome of the policy. The policy itself has under gone a number of changes most recently in 2011. No one at Wizards of the Coast has been willing to speak on this issue for an unknown reason. If it were simply due to any Non-disclosure agreements we, the fans and players would understand but we aren’t even told that. I would also like to point out that even the lead designer a Mr. Mark Rosewater has spoken out about his dislike of the policy a number of times in public. As have a number of commercial entities. What I am asking for you to do on behalf of the player base is to find out why the policy continues to exist or at the very least why no one is allowed to answer the question of why it’s still around.
I fully expect to have called down stone rain on me, but I would like any thoughts or suggestions on this letter that are productive beyond "don't do it" or something like that nature.
So,like I said at some point about writing a letter well here it is:
and I am writing you regarding the actions of the subsidiary company Wizards of the Coast. The actions in question are regarding a policy that is turning out to be detrimental to players of the collectible card game: “Magic: The Gathering”. The policy in question is entitled “OFFICIAL REPRINT POLICY” and I have enclosed a separate page with it in full, and what follows is the gist of the policy:
[policy here]
This absurd policy has been in place for coming on close to twenty-five years. When it was first created it made sense since no one at the time had thought that the game would last as long as it has. However, over time the policy became another form of investment for those who could afford or be lucky enough to have gotten ahold of cards that have in some cases become equal to the value of some cars at retail price. This was never the intended outcome of the policy. The policy itself has under gone a number of changes most recently in 2011. No one at Wizards of the Coast has been willing to speak on this issue for an unknown reason. If it were simply due to any Non-disclosure agreements we, the fans and players would understand but we aren’t even told that. I would also like to point out that even the lead designer a Mr. Mark Rosewater has spoken out about his dislike of the policy a number of times in public. As have a number of commercial entities. What I am asking for you to do on behalf of the player base is to find out why the policy continues to exist or at the very least why no one is allowed to answer the question of why it’s still around.
I fully expect to have called down stone rain on me, but I would like any thoughts or suggestions on this letter that are productive beyond "don't do it" or something like that nature.
Quoted myself and removed the tags because the site is broken.
If anything is going to be undone by counterfeiting, it's the new cards of magic, not the old.
The old Reserve List cards have so many natural features that come about as a result of the old printing process that I don't think they'll ever be copied effectively. It's like trying to counterfeit microfiche. Not only that, but the trade volume is low. Standard cards move fast. Dual Lands move slowly. Power Nine barely move at all. It takes months to sell cards sometimes.
Finally, the RL crowd are a very suspicious bunch. They know what to look for, how to analyze. They know a dozen different tests. Moreover much of the RL stock, the high grade at least, is already encased in BGS/PSA protectors.
You cannot compare to Tarmogoyf and Doubling Season to a card that you only have access to that's black border is version Alpha/Beta at the price tag of +3,000 dollars!
I know there's an issue with black border vs white border cards when players were using sharpies to color in the white border magic card. If you're not around during that time, you might want to ask a few card-shops. I would believe they could tell you a few stories.
As for investors... I'm sorry but I thought the game was called CCG... COLLECTIBLE card game. This is not a board game, it's a collectible card game.
As for new face, sorry but 80% to 90% of the decks that I play has new face cards. Besides a few bombs that were made before the new face, most of the playable cards are new face cards.
On the other hand, looking on how wizards handled the reprinting of Tarmogoyf Original is 100. reprint is 70 dollars. that's a 30% price reduction. 70 dollars is a a lot of money. So how does the reprinting of Tarmogoyf helps the format? Take the account that Duals lands are necessary for Vintage/Legacy, so how is a 70 dollar price tag helps? I remember when Duals lands were hitting 50 dollars a pop and players were *****ing about the cost.
Wait, you think that if they took down the RL that cards on the RL would deflate in value? That's actually impossible for anything in the ABU cycle or even Legends and The Dark. If the prices dropped, the only thing that would happen is other investors gobbling up the supply from the panicking ones, because the smart ones realize there are only so many of those originals in existence and they have a much higher worth than people realize. The RL has absolutely no impact on the collector/investor side of things for those ancient cards. The only thing it does let Wizards do is reclaim old design space originally consumed by the RL.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This is the final copy of the letter that will be sent tomorrow
my name here and I am writing you regarding the actions of the subsidiary company Wizards of the Coast. The actions in question are regarding a policy that is turning out to be detrimental to players of the collectible card game: “Magic: The Gathering”. The policy in question is entitled “OFFICIAL REPRINT POLICY” and I have enclosed the policy in full, so what follows is the gist of the policy
This policy has been in place for coming on close to twenty-five years. The policy has now become another form of investment for those who could afford or be lucky enough to have gotten ahold of cards that have in some cases become equal to the value of some cars at retail price. It has also lead to players seeking out counterfeit cards since some formats of the game are outside the budget of the average player. This I believe was never the intended outcome of the policy. The policy itself has under gone a number of changes most recently in 2011. No one at Wizards of the Coast has been able to speak to why it is still around. If it were simply due to any Non-disclosure agreements the fans and players would understand but we aren’t even told that. I would also like to point out that even the lead designer a Mr. Mark Rosewater has spoken out about his dislike of the policy a number of times in public. As have a number of commercial entities. If possible, could you please share with me, or the community, why the Magic: the Gathering Reserve List is still maintained? If that is not possible, would you please share with the community why employees are not allowed to discuss the Reserve List? Finally, would you please share with the community those circumstances, if any that would allow the Reserve List to be removed or further modified? In all cases, if a direct reply to this letter is not preferred, then a Public Relations statement to the Magic: the Gathering community would be acceptable as long as it addresses these concerns.
Thank you for your time, patience and assistance. Have a great day.
I'm including a copy of the policy because the letter is headed to Hasbro's legal department.
Thank you, I put it in the mail today so here's hoping
So any response?
Regarding counterfeiting, do people actually check the cards in sleeves at tournaments?
If someone sleeved up some duals, I probably won't notice the difference if played across from me.
Thank you, I put it in the mail today so here's hoping
So any response?
Regarding counterfeiting, do people actually check the cards in sleeves at tournaments?
If someone sleeved up some duals, I probably won't notice the difference if played across from me.
It appears that people do. Andrew Jessup was issued a game loss at GP in August after he was deck checked and was caught with a handful of counterfeits. I don't remember what was counterfeited. Some of the Tarmogoyfs and some silly lands I think. I'm too lazy to look it up.
Thank you, I put it in the mail today so here's hoping
So any response?
Regarding counterfeiting, do people actually check the cards in sleeves at tournaments?
If someone sleeved up some duals, I probably won't notice the difference if played across from me.
Depends on the quality. Some counterfeits are noticeably different.
As Colt eluded to, a product that directly puts supply of reprints AND new cards - we must also insist that WoTC includes new cards outright - into Modern (why stop at only Modern, I think, let's shoot for Eternal formats as a whole) would mean that all of the conceptual limitations of Standard and imposed constraints of the Limited/Draft environment would no longer be a factor for these Eternal formats. This is a huuuuge point to be made - that Standard is limiting the number of quality reprints and outright new cards on the necessary power level for Eternal formats and thus needs to be bypassed outright with new products containing format bypassing cards.
Doing this would make all Eternal formats flourish, like we've never seen before.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
[policy here]
This absurd policy has been in place for coming on close to twenty-five years. When it was first created it made sense since no one at the time had thought that the game would last as long as it has. However, over time the policy became another form of investment for those who could afford or be lucky enough to have gotten ahold of cards that have in some cases become equal to the value of some cars at retail price. This was never the intended outcome of the policy. The policy itself has under gone a number of changes most recently in 2011. No one at Wizards of the Coast has been willing to speak on this issue for an unknown reason. If it were simply due to any Non-disclosure agreements we, the fans and players would understand but we aren’t even told that. I would also like to point out that even the lead designer a Mr. Mark Rosewater has spoken out about his dislike of the policy a number of times in public. As have a number of commercial entities. What I am asking for you to do on behalf of the player base is to find out why the policy continues to exist or at the very least why no one is allowed to answer the question of why it’s still around.
I fully expect to have called down stone rain on me, but I would like any thoughts or suggestions on this letter that are productive beyond "don't do it" or something like that nature.
Quoted myself and removed the tags because the site is broken.
I think this is probably what breaks it, yes.
Spirits
The old Reserve List cards have so many natural features that come about as a result of the old printing process that I don't think they'll ever be copied effectively. It's like trying to counterfeit microfiche. Not only that, but the trade volume is low. Standard cards move fast. Dual Lands move slowly. Power Nine barely move at all. It takes months to sell cards sometimes.
Finally, the RL crowd are a very suspicious bunch. They know what to look for, how to analyze. They know a dozen different tests. Moreover much of the RL stock, the high grade at least, is already encased in BGS/PSA protectors.
Wait, you think that if they took down the RL that cards on the RL would deflate in value? That's actually impossible for anything in the ABU cycle or even Legends and The Dark. If the prices dropped, the only thing that would happen is other investors gobbling up the supply from the panicking ones, because the smart ones realize there are only so many of those originals in existence and they have a much higher worth than people realize. The RL has absolutely no impact on the collector/investor side of things for those ancient cards. The only thing it does let Wizards do is reclaim old design space originally consumed by the RL.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This policy has been in place for coming on close to twenty-five years. The policy has now become another form of investment for those who could afford or be lucky enough to have gotten ahold of cards that have in some cases become equal to the value of some cars at retail price. It has also lead to players seeking out counterfeit cards since some formats of the game are outside the budget of the average player. This I believe was never the intended outcome of the policy. The policy itself has under gone a number of changes most recently in 2011. No one at Wizards of the Coast has been able to speak to why it is still around. If it were simply due to any Non-disclosure agreements the fans and players would understand but we aren’t even told that. I would also like to point out that even the lead designer a Mr. Mark Rosewater has spoken out about his dislike of the policy a number of times in public. As have a number of commercial entities. If possible, could you please share with me, or the community, why the Magic: the Gathering Reserve List is still maintained? If that is not possible, would you please share with the community why employees are not allowed to discuss the Reserve List? Finally, would you please share with the community those circumstances, if any that would allow the Reserve List to be removed or further modified? In all cases, if a direct reply to this letter is not preferred, then a Public Relations statement to the Magic: the Gathering community would be acceptable as long as it addresses these concerns.
Thank you for your time, patience and assistance. Have a great day.
I'm including a copy of the policy because the letter is headed to Hasbro's legal department.
Thank you, I put it in the mail today so here's hoping
So any response?
Regarding counterfeiting, do people actually check the cards in sleeves at tournaments?
If someone sleeved up some duals, I probably won't notice the difference if played across from me.
It appears that people do. Andrew Jessup was issued a game loss at GP in August after he was deck checked and was caught with a handful of counterfeits. I don't remember what was counterfeited. Some of the Tarmogoyfs and some silly lands I think. I'm too lazy to look it up.
Depends on the quality. Some counterfeits are noticeably different.
Not yet