I'm not sure I even believed that story. If they really wanted to reprint the duals, why make shocks deal two damage instead of one (or some even more trivial drawback)?
Exactly. They could conceivably make something as follows:
New Badlands
Swamp Mountain
When New Badlands enters the battlefield, pay 1 life unless you control a Swamp or a Mountain.
(I believe Wizards currently prefers paying life to dealing damage when it comes to lands)
They could even add a line:
"If you control a land named Badlands, sacrifice New Badlands" to avoid any dangers of these new duals becoming copies 5-8 of ABUR duals in decks.
Wouldn't something like the above fit into their current reserve list policy? Would it still violate the nebulous "spirit of the reserve list"? -maybe, but there is a clear loss of life on turn 1, so it is strictly worse.
Now, I wouldn't expect something like this in standard/modern, where WOTC is probably happy with shocks and fetches being the premier lands.
But could they think of a way to put something like these into some future supplemental product to help legacy/vintage? If they did, those sales would be through the roof!
To me, it seems the most general problem people have with the reserve list is the dual lands. For the most part players seem to accept what is not going to be reprinted. Complaints about the reserve list usually boil down to the manabase, which makes sense since every deck needs mana!
[quote from="Jermo48 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334928-reserved-list-discussion?comment=2488"]
Doesn't matter. They defined something in a certain manner. That aspect is descriptive. That is all that needs to be descriptive.
You're missing the point.
At the time of the definition, 'Legendary' was not officially a supertype, and probably considered part of the card type itself.
If and when WotC want to circumvent the list, they can revisit that definition on the pretext of updating it to match the current comprehensive rules. This could be presented as not a change to the policy, but rather a long overdue "translation" from the old terminology to the new.
Nobody is saying that the current wording does not currently apply! All we are saying is that WotC could augment that definition and arguably not be gong back on their original promise (they could even spin it as corresponding with the "spirit", or "intention" of that promise). It would be as easy as flicking a switch.
Obviously they could just do way with the list if and when they want! But this might be a more politically savvy way to support eternal formats than outright rescinding the policy.
(I believe Wizards currently prefers paying life to dealing damage when it comes to lands)
They did just reprint painlands though.
</blockquote>
True, but that seems to be because of not wanting to create a new set of duals almost identical to the existing pain lands, once they decided to include them in M15.
[quote from="Jermo48 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334928-reserved-list-discussion?comment=2488"]
Doesn't matter. They defined something in a certain manner. That aspect is descriptive. That is all that needs to be descriptive.
You're missing the point.
At the time of the definition, 'Legendary' was not officially a supertype, and probably considered part of the card type itself.
The first one maybe, but they went back over everything in 2010.
If and when WotC want to circumvent the list, they can revisit that definition on the pretext of updating it to match the current comprehensive rules. This could be presented as not a change to the policy, but rather a long overdue "translation" from the old terminology to the new.
And they had the opportunity to do so, and didn't. The point is irrelevant and amounts to "If they don't want the reserve list to apply, they can make it not apply" which doesn't matter. They have shown that they want the current wording, and so we have to work within that wording, saying that they could change the wording is pointless.
Nobody is saying that the current wording does not currently apply!
That's near exactly what he's doing.
All we are saying is that WotC could augment that definition and arguably not be gong back on their original promise (they could even spin it as corresponding with the "spirit", or "intention" of that promise). It would be as easy as flicking a switch.
And they had the opportunity to do so, and didn't. So why keep going on about how they could do things that they obviously don't want to do?
Obviously they could just do way with the list if and when they want! But this might be a more politically savvy way to support eternal formats than outright rescinding the policy.
Which they apparently don't want to do. That puts it equal to simply asking them to get rid of the list, just in a different way.
STATISTICS.
All of these "Let's eliminate bad cards" crusades are simply ignorant. And when they start to devolve into "WotC is conspiring to give us crappy cards," they just become embarrassing. MATH is conspiring to give you crappy cards.
And they had the opportunity to do so, and didn't. So why keep going on about how they could do things that they obviously don't want to do?
They don't even seem to want to support eternal by reprinting non reserved high end staples! Those of us who dislike the list and want to see support for Legacy are holding out for the future, when new developers, designers, executives, and market conditions might one day change what WotC do and don't want to do.
Which they apparently don't want to do. That puts it equal to simply asking them to get rid of the list, just in a different way.
Except this modification could be spun as correcting an oversight, or simply correcting a bad decision (in 2010) which failed to reflect the original intent. Getting rid of the list would be a vastly bigger shift in policy, and could not be justified as easily with clever PR. If you can't see that difference,I don't know how to better explain it.
Edit - this whole notion hinges on the fact that one day in the future WotC may want to support eternal by circumventing the list, but would rather keep their word as much as possible to minimise backlash.
In this scenario, the fact that their technical definition of 'functionally identical' makes no sense and fails to correspond to the English language meaning of that phrase could be fuel for them to exploit.
[quote from="Jermo48 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334928-reserved-list-discussion?comment=2488"]
Doesn't matter. They defined something in a certain manner. That aspect is descriptive. That is all that needs to be descriptive.
You're missing the point.
Nobody is saying that the current wording does not currently apply! All we are saying is that WotC could augment that definition and arguably not be gong back on their original promise (they could even spin it as corresponding with the "spirit", or "intention" of that promise). It would be as easy as flicking a switch.
You should read the things Jermo has posted. That is pretty much what s/he is arguing and the origin of this debate. This wasn't a conversation about whether they could/should change the letter of the reserved list at all. It was, believe it or not, a debate about what the reserved list currently says. A "debate" that you would have expected would end in two or three posts.
And they had the opportunity to do so, and didn't. So why keep going on about how they could do things that they obviously don't want to do?
They don't even seem to want to support eternal by reprinting non reserved high end staples! Those of us who dislike the list and want to see support for Legacy are holding out for the future, when new developers, designers, executives, and market conditions might one day change what WotC do and don't want to do.
Why bother "going on" about it? People like hope!
This whole discussion was indeed about what the RL actually said. Not whether or not to get rid of it. See what Jerno was suggesting, your reasonableness has no place on his side.
Which they apparently don't want to do. That puts it equal to simply asking them to get rid of the list, just in a different way.
Except this modification could be spun as correcting an oversight, or simply correcting a bad decision (in 2010) which failed to reflect the original intent. Getting rid of the list would be a vastly bigger shift in policy, and could not be justified as easily with clever PR. If you can't see that difference,I don't know how to better explain it.
Edit - this whole notion hinges on the fact that one day in the future WotC may want to support eternal by circumventing the list, but would rather keep their word as much as possible to minimise backlash.
In this scenario, the fact that their technical definition of 'functionally identical' makes no sense and fails to correspond to the English language meaning of that phrase could be fuel for them to exploit.
Yes, this would be a viable plan if they wanted to get around the RL by changing it. But they don't, we're better suited working within it. Of course, this is all getting away from Jermo not thinking they ever defined anything.
STATISTICS.
All of these "Let's eliminate bad cards" crusades are simply ignorant. And when they start to devolve into "WotC is conspiring to give us crappy cards," they just become embarrassing. MATH is conspiring to give you crappy cards.
This whole discussion was indeed about what the RL actually said. Not whether or not to get rid of it. See what Jerno was suggesting, your reasonableness has no place on his side.
[quote from="Jermo48 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334928-reserved-list-discussion?comment=2488"]
Doesn't matter. They defined something in a certain manner. That aspect is descriptive. That is all that needs to be descriptive.
You're missing the point.
Nobody is saying that the current wording does not currently apply! All we are saying is that WotC could augment that definition and arguably not be gong back on their original promise (they could even spin it as corresponding with the "spirit", or "intention" of that promise). It would be as easy as flicking a switch.
You should read the things Jermo has posted. That is pretty much what s/he is arguing and the origin of this debate. This wasn't a conversation about whether they could/should change the letter of the reserved list at all. It was, believe it or not, a debate about what the reserved list currently says. A "debate" that you would have expected would end in two or three posts.
</blockquote>
Nah, it was actually a debate about whether they wrote what they actually meant (which is pretty unlikely - them updating things after without changing that hardly means a thing, I've done that in papers before) and what it should mean. You're far too full of yourself to see that, though, and your condescending attitude is nothing but funny to me now.
This whole discussion was indeed about what the RL actually said. Not whether or not to get rid of it. See what Jerno was suggesting, your reasonableness has no place on his side.
[quote from="Jermo48 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334928-reserved-list-discussion?comment=2488"]
Doesn't matter. They defined something in a certain manner. That aspect is descriptive. That is all that needs to be descriptive.
You're missing the point.
Nobody is saying that the current wording does not currently apply! All we are saying is that WotC could augment that definition and arguably not be gong back on their original promise (they could even spin it as corresponding with the "spirit", or "intention" of that promise). It would be as easy as flicking a switch.
You should read the things Jermo has posted. That is pretty much what s/he is arguing and the origin of this debate. This wasn't a conversation about whether they could/should change the letter of the reserved list at all. It was, believe it or not, a debate about what the reserved list currently says. A "debate" that you would have expected would end in two or three posts.
</blockquote>
Nah, it was actually a debate about whether they wrote what they actually meant (which is pretty unlikely - them updating things after without changing that hardly means a thing, I've done that in papers before) and what it should mean. You're far too full of yourself to see that, though, and your condescending attitude is nothing but funny to me now.
</blockquote>
It's not like the 2010 update was taken lightly, it was a very important update, and you think they just didn't notice the aspect they were updating?
STATISTICS.
All of these "Let's eliminate bad cards" crusades are simply ignorant. And when they start to devolve into "WotC is conspiring to give us crappy cards," they just become embarrassing. MATH is conspiring to give you crappy cards.
Would it be possible for them to just reprint the cards, especially those pricey duals, except without artwork. This would still put a higher value on the original duals, but would allow legacy players, especially fresh blood, to actually be able to play. Legacy is one of the best formats and I just hope wotc will not ignore it just because of modern.
Would it be possible for them to just reprint the cards, especially those pricey duals, except without artwork. This would still put a higher value on the original duals, but would allow legacy players, especially fresh blood, to actually be able to play. Legacy is one of the best formats and I just hope wotc will not ignore it just because of modern.
Theoretically, they could do whatever they want. But what you describe would be a clear violation of the RL.
What if Wizards has been testing the ice for years on the Reserved List? From the Vault started us off, reprinting staples every year, but with a small run. Okay, so Return to Ravnica gave us the shockland reprint, and pretty much everyone rejoiced, sure some people "lost" money, but it spike interest in modern and made the lands easier to liquidate and acquire more of now that they were standard staples. Next, we got "Modern Masters" that reprinted all sorts of staples, and everyone loved it. So then Theros came around and had Thoughtseize, and with it the announcement that Wizards was going to try and reprint more staples through standard (and Chord of Calling became the second staple in standard, plummeting the price, but again making almost everyone happy). Modern Event Decks became a thing, and although the first one was definitely weak, it did have staples, and might get a stronger follow up (didn't want to overprint and crash market the first time). Vintage Masters ensured that players could access older formats online, and not pay ten grand doing so. Khans stepped into new territory, everyone knew Modern staples were fair game, but did you know that legacy staples were too? Onslaught fetches hit and CRASHED them hard. Again, a lot of people groaned, but overall people ended up happy (especially now that they could afford foils...). Modern Masters is now a yearly or bi-annual product with a promised higher print run (possibly one that goes up every year) letting people know that WotC intends to keep prices down for Modern. So where do we go from here? I think WotC is going to keep testing the waters on reprints, and when the time is right (they feel they have sufficient info for print run, legacy and vintage are almost extinct, etc.) they will finally release Legacy/Vintage Masters, and players will rejoice!
What if Wizards has been testing the ice for years on the Reserved List? From the Vault started us off, reprinting staples every year, but with a small run. Okay, so Return to Ravnica gave us the shockland reprint, and pretty much everyone rejoiced, sure some people "lost" money, but it spike interest in modern and made the lands easier to liquidate and acquire more of now that they were standard staples. Next, we got "Modern Masters" that reprinted all sorts of staples, and everyone loved it. So then Theros came around and had Thoughtseize, and with it the announcement that Wizards was going to try and reprint more staples through standard (and Chord of Calling became the second staple in standard, plummeting the price, but again making almost everyone happy). Modern Event Decks became a thing, and although the first one was definitely weak, it did have staples, and might get a stronger follow up (didn't want to overprint and crash market the first time). Vintage Masters ensured that players could access older formats online, and not pay ten grand doing so. Khans stepped into new territory, everyone knew Modern staples were fair game, but did you know that legacy staples were too? Onslaught fetches hit and CRASHED them hard. Again, a lot of people groaned, but overall people ended up happy (especially now that they could afford foils...). Modern Masters is now a yearly or bi-annual product with a promised higher print run (possibly one that goes up every year) letting people know that WotC intends to keep prices down for Modern. So where do we go from here? I think WotC is going to keep testing the waters on reprints, and when the time is right (they feel they have sufficient info for print run, legacy and vintage are almost extinct, etc.) they will finally release Legacy/Vintage Masters, and players will rejoice!
This actually doesn't sound as crazy as you think. I for one hope it happens.
Don't forget about Magic Online. In theory, its them negating the reprint policy. MTGO is a training ground for getting rid of the reprint list. I'm not saying they will do it, but the mtgo vintage stuff gives them some actual hard data to chew on.
Onslaught fetches hit and CRASHED them hard. Again, a lot of people groaned
Really? Who groaned?
There were a lot of people that had Onslaught fetches and complained when they crashed, there are just so few of them compared to the Magic community at large. I know a guy that was aggressively trading for them before they got reprinted, he traded away Tarmos, Bobs and other higher end things to get these, and he was none too pleased (...and doesn't let us hear the end of it).
Onslaught fetches hit and CRASHED them hard. Again, a lot of people groaned
Really? Who groaned?
There were a lot of people that had Onslaught fetches and complained when they crashed, there are just so few of them compared to the Magic community at large. I know a guy that was aggressively trading for them before they got reprinted, he traded away Tarmos, Bobs and other higher end things to get these, and he was none too pleased (...and doesn't let us hear the end of it).
It's difficult to feel sorry for this guy. The reserved list exists, and onslaught fetches weren't on it. Did he really expect that WotC would keep only the enemy-colored fetchlands in Modern?
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Onslaught fetches hit and CRASHED them hard. Again, a lot of people groaned
Really? Who groaned?
There were a lot of people that had Onslaught fetches and complained when they crashed, there are just so few of them compared to the Magic community at large. I know a guy that was aggressively trading for them before they got reprinted, he traded away Tarmos, Bobs and other higher end things to get these, and he was none too pleased (...and doesn't let us hear the end of it).
It's difficult to feel sorry for this guy. The reserved list exists, and onslaught fetches weren't on it. Did he really expect that WotC would keep only the enemy-colored fetchlands in Modern?
It's difficult for me to feel sorry for anybody who "collects" Magic cards as an investment. The RL is the worst thing that ever happened to this game and the sooner it's gone, the better.
It's difficult for me to feel sorry for anybody who "collects" Magic cards as an investment. The RL is the worst thing that ever happened to this game and the sooner it's gone, the better.
This has absolutely nothing to do with my point.
The reserved list exists. We know which cards are on it. We know that those cards won't be reprinted.
If a person is going to aggressively trade for something, presumably because they believe it's well-positioned in a format or market, why would you trade for Onslaught fetchlands?
The reprinting of Onslaught fetchlands was going to happen eventually. Those cards aren't on the reserved list, and it was very strange to only have the enemy-colored fetchlands in one of WotC's flagship formats.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
It's difficult for me to feel sorry for anybody who "collects" Magic cards as an investment. The RL is the worst thing that ever happened to this game and the sooner it's gone, the better.
Your heart's in the right place, but you're directing your anger at the wrong thing. The reserve list is a red herring. Cards like Reverberate show that it's absolutely possible for them to print cards that, while not mechanically identical and in violation of the reserve list, can fulfill a similar function to reserve list cards in most cases. Indeed, they print cards that can fill the same role as reserved list cards all the time (Treasure Cruise, Time Warp) seeking to try and make them fair.
The real issue is that lots of the reserve list cards do things that Wizards now considers broken or unfun, and so they have no incentive to introduce them into the standard environment or increase their availability in older formats. When it turned out the Cruise was actually a pretty fair substitute for A.Recall in the right deck, it got utterly crushed in all formats. EVEN VINTAGE. You are no more likely to see a Snow Dual than abolishing the reserve list because, either way, the real problem is that the cards are overpowered and restrict their design space.
It's difficult for me to feel sorry for anybody who "collects" Magic cards as an investment. The RL is the worst thing that ever happened to this game and the sooner it's gone, the better.
Your heart's in the right place, but you're directing your anger at the wrong thing. The reserve list is a red herring. Cards like Reverberate show that it's absolutely possible for them to print cards that, while not mechanically identical and in violation of the reserve list, can fulfill a similar function to reserve list cards in most cases. Indeed, they print cards that can fill the same role as reserved list cards all the time (Treasure Cruise, Time Warp) seeking to try and make them fair.
The real issue is that lots of the reserve list cards do things that Wizards now considers broken or unfun, and so they have no incentive to introduce them into the standard environment or increase their availability in older formats. When it turned out the Cruise was actually a pretty fair substitute for A.Recall in the right deck, it got utterly crushed in all formats. EVEN VINTAGE. You are no more likely to see a Snow Dual than abolishing the reserve list because, either way, the real problem is that the cards are overpowered and restrict their design space.
Then you reprint them in FTV ro some other special set that is Legacy, Vintage, and EDH legal only and problem is solved. Standard and Modern stat untouched and Eternal format players actually get to, duh, have people to play against.
Otherwise, Legacy and Vintage will eventually die.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Exactly. They could conceivably make something as follows:
New Badlands
Swamp Mountain
When New Badlands enters the battlefield, pay 1 life unless you control a Swamp or a Mountain.
(I believe Wizards currently prefers paying life to dealing damage when it comes to lands)
They could even add a line:
"If you control a land named Badlands, sacrifice New Badlands" to avoid any dangers of these new duals becoming copies 5-8 of ABUR duals in decks.
Wouldn't something like the above fit into their current reserve list policy? Would it still violate the nebulous "spirit of the reserve list"? -maybe, but there is a clear loss of life on turn 1, so it is strictly worse.
Now, I wouldn't expect something like this in standard/modern, where WOTC is probably happy with shocks and fetches being the premier lands.
But could they think of a way to put something like these into some future supplemental product to help legacy/vintage? If they did, those sales would be through the roof!
To me, it seems the most general problem people have with the reserve list is the dual lands. For the most part players seem to accept what is not going to be reprinted. Complaints about the reserve list usually boil down to the manabase, which makes sense since every deck needs mana!
Obviously they could just do way with the list if and when they want! But this might be a more politically savvy way to support eternal formats than outright rescinding the policy.
They did just reprint painlands though.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
True, but that seems to be because of not wanting to create a new set of duals almost identical to the existing pain lands, once they decided to include them in M15.
See here: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-mana-2014-06-27
And they had the opportunity to do so, and didn't. The point is irrelevant and amounts to "If they don't want the reserve list to apply, they can make it not apply" which doesn't matter. They have shown that they want the current wording, and so we have to work within that wording, saying that they could change the wording is pointless.
That's near exactly what he's doing.
And they had the opportunity to do so, and didn't. So why keep going on about how they could do things that they obviously don't want to do?
Which they apparently don't want to do. That puts it equal to simply asking them to get rid of the list, just in a different way.
They don't even seem to want to support eternal by reprinting non reserved high end staples! Those of us who dislike the list and want to see support for Legacy are holding out for the future, when new developers, designers, executives, and market conditions might one day change what WotC do and don't want to do.
Why bother "going on" about it? People like hope!
Except this modification could be spun as correcting an oversight, or simply correcting a bad decision (in 2010) which failed to reflect the original intent. Getting rid of the list would be a vastly bigger shift in policy, and could not be justified as easily with clever PR. If you can't see that difference,I don't know how to better explain it.
Edit - this whole notion hinges on the fact that one day in the future WotC may want to support eternal by circumventing the list, but would rather keep their word as much as possible to minimise backlash.
In this scenario, the fact that their technical definition of 'functionally identical' makes no sense and fails to correspond to the English language meaning of that phrase could be fuel for them to exploit.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
This whole discussion was indeed about what the RL actually said. Not whether or not to get rid of it. See what Jerno was suggesting, your reasonableness has no place on his side.
Yes, this would be a viable plan if they wanted to get around the RL by changing it. But they don't, we're better suited working within it. Of course, this is all getting away from Jermo not thinking they ever defined anything.
Sorry guys! I'll learn to read before I post next time.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Nah, it was actually a debate about whether they wrote what they actually meant (which is pretty unlikely - them updating things after without changing that hardly means a thing, I've done that in papers before) and what it should mean. You're far too full of yourself to see that, though, and your condescending attitude is nothing but funny to me now.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
It's ok buddy! We still love you.
</blockquote>
It's not like the 2010 update was taken lightly, it was a very important update, and you think they just didn't notice the aspect they were updating?
Theoretically, they could do whatever they want. But what you describe would be a clear violation of the RL.
Modern: GW Hatebears/midrange, WGU Knightfall/evolution midrange stuff
Standard: nope
Legacy: W Death & Taxes
EDH (not Commander!): W Avacyn, Angel of Hope, GR Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, WGB Anafenza, the Foremost, WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Unfortunately, I think you have a very long wait. In fact, prices are only going to go up even more over time.
What if Wizards has been testing the ice for years on the Reserved List? From the Vault started us off, reprinting staples every year, but with a small run. Okay, so Return to Ravnica gave us the shockland reprint, and pretty much everyone rejoiced, sure some people "lost" money, but it spike interest in modern and made the lands easier to liquidate and acquire more of now that they were standard staples. Next, we got "Modern Masters" that reprinted all sorts of staples, and everyone loved it. So then Theros came around and had Thoughtseize, and with it the announcement that Wizards was going to try and reprint more staples through standard (and Chord of Calling became the second staple in standard, plummeting the price, but again making almost everyone happy). Modern Event Decks became a thing, and although the first one was definitely weak, it did have staples, and might get a stronger follow up (didn't want to overprint and crash market the first time). Vintage Masters ensured that players could access older formats online, and not pay ten grand doing so. Khans stepped into new territory, everyone knew Modern staples were fair game, but did you know that legacy staples were too? Onslaught fetches hit and CRASHED them hard. Again, a lot of people groaned, but overall people ended up happy (especially now that they could afford foils...). Modern Masters is now a yearly or bi-annual product with a promised higher print run (possibly one that goes up every year) letting people know that WotC intends to keep prices down for Modern. So where do we go from here? I think WotC is going to keep testing the waters on reprints, and when the time is right (they feel they have sufficient info for print run, legacy and vintage are almost extinct, etc.) they will finally release Legacy/Vintage Masters, and players will rejoice!
This actually doesn't sound as crazy as you think. I for one hope it happens.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
It's difficult to feel sorry for this guy. The reserved list exists, and onslaught fetches weren't on it. Did he really expect that WotC would keep only the enemy-colored fetchlands in Modern?
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
It's difficult for me to feel sorry for anybody who "collects" Magic cards as an investment. The RL is the worst thing that ever happened to this game and the sooner it's gone, the better.
This has absolutely nothing to do with my point.
The reserved list exists. We know which cards are on it. We know that those cards won't be reprinted.
If a person is going to aggressively trade for something, presumably because they believe it's well-positioned in a format or market, why would you trade for Onslaught fetchlands?
The reprinting of Onslaught fetchlands was going to happen eventually. Those cards aren't on the reserved list, and it was very strange to only have the enemy-colored fetchlands in one of WotC's flagship formats.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Your heart's in the right place, but you're directing your anger at the wrong thing. The reserve list is a red herring. Cards like Reverberate show that it's absolutely possible for them to print cards that, while not mechanically identical and in violation of the reserve list, can fulfill a similar function to reserve list cards in most cases. Indeed, they print cards that can fill the same role as reserved list cards all the time (Treasure Cruise, Time Warp) seeking to try and make them fair.
The real issue is that lots of the reserve list cards do things that Wizards now considers broken or unfun, and so they have no incentive to introduce them into the standard environment or increase their availability in older formats. When it turned out the Cruise was actually a pretty fair substitute for A.Recall in the right deck, it got utterly crushed in all formats. EVEN VINTAGE. You are no more likely to see a Snow Dual than abolishing the reserve list because, either way, the real problem is that the cards are overpowered and restrict their design space.
Then you reprint them in FTV ro some other special set that is Legacy, Vintage, and EDH legal only and problem is solved. Standard and Modern stat untouched and Eternal format players actually get to, duh, have people to play against.
Otherwise, Legacy and Vintage will eventually die.
You can take that to the bank.
WotC wants them to die. When you go to the bank, take that sentiment with you.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps