Modern is the new Extended... idk why you think it's so weird for me to say that but that has nothing to do with this thread. You can pm me if you really want to discuss it
<It's clear you're a troll> now, and in the off chance if you don't understand why that statement strips any credibility you may have had, then there's clearly no reason to keep talking with you.
You bring up the reserved list but that has nothing to do with reprinting cards like FOW. There are plenty of Legacy staples that could go into a reprint release without touching the reserved list yet they have not done that... so there must be another reason.
Actually, they have... Karakas, Show and Tell, Vindicate (Second wave), Wasteland, Imperial Recruiter, and more have all been printed as judge promos in recent history. Judge promos are actually the most likely places these cards will show up, and while Force of Will hasn't had that benefit we never know when it may happen.
Pleas do not call other users trolls. Flame warning issued. -Xen
It's clear you're a troll now, and in the off chance if you don't understand why that statement strips any credibility you may have had, then there's clearly no reason to keep talking with you.
Either explain why you think that is or just stop talking to me because I do not agree with you. Like it or not Modern is a replacement for Extended.
Actually, they have... Karakas, Show and Tell, Vindicate (Second wave), Wasteland, Imperial Recruiter, and more have all been printed as judge promos in recent history. Judge promos are actually the most likely places these cards will show up, and while Force of Will hasn't had that benefit we never know when it may happen.
How much do judge promos impact availability? Certainly not to the same degree as printing them in a "legacy masters" style set. Those also all look like decent EDH cards which we know WotC is ok with supporting.
Absolutely nothing to my knowledge. It's a one-sided, unilateral agreement with no exchange of consideration that's recognizable in court. I don't want to start a legal conversation, as internet forums aren't really the best way to have that type of discussion, but suffice it to say that Wizards is under no legal obligation to enforce the reserve list. Any reasons for doing so are strictly internal business decisions on their part.
If someone can provide me a link to a copy of some formal, binding document pertaining to the reserve list, I'd love to take a look at it, as I'd like be able to offer a fully informed opinion.
EDIT: There is the very slight possibility that some collector could attempt to make a legal argument based on promissory estoppel. Again, I'm not trying to get into a legal discussion, but I don't believe any claim based on estoppel would be successful. It's possible, but highly unlikely, particularly given the legal power a company the size of Hasbro has backing them versus individual consumers. I don't know that you would even be able to accurately assess damages due to the nature of card prices.
It's not a contract, and you're right, estoppel would be a long shot. I've always thought it would be considered a warranty or product guaranty.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Retrodrome!
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
Either explain why you think that is or just stop talking to me because I do not agree with you. Like it or not Modern is a replacement for Extended.
How much do judge promos impact availability? Certainly not to the same degree as printing them in a "legacy masters" style set. Those also all look like decent EDH cards which we know WotC is ok with supporting.
I think judge promos are only given to level 2 or higher judges at high level tournaments such as GPs? Like I have a level 1 friend who said he didn't get a packet. Judge promos are very limited, but judges usually do sell them. The judge promo fetches are so expensive because they were only given out to judges who set up a new organized play system at a shop. So basically they had to find a store that didn't already have tournaments or leagues.
And once they are being done given out, that's it. They are not reprinted with the same art. Like we just got a new art Vindicate but it's not the same art. Since they're so limited, they rarely affect the prices of the original cards. Then they have nowhere to go but up if they are playable in eternal formats. The only judge promo that comes to mind that hasn't moved for a long time is Morphling. Usually they dip in price after a few months of being given out. Like judge promo Command Tower is fairly cheap, but when it first came out it was like $100. This was largely because the supply was low, and everyone wanted a foil Command Tower. As more copies got out into the market (I'm sure many judges kept theirs since they play EDH), I think it went down to around $60.
tl;dr judge promos start out high because there are very few of them at first, then they start to resemble the price of the original card, maybe even go down a little, then go up as the supply diminishes. Judge promos would be the perfect way to reprint reserved list cards, and it would be a nice present to judges who could either keep them or sell them for a lot of money. The originals are rarely affected. P3K Imperial Recruiter is still $200+ but the judge promo is $100. Legends Karakas is $100 but the judge promo is $85. But these promos will definitely go up as the supply dries up. And I just looked at the promo for Dark Confidant, holy crap, it's $200 now.
With the recent news of many counterfeits coming out of China, do you guys think this would prompt Wizards to get rid of the reserved list to reprint the dual lands with the new hologram? Some people here have already stated that they plan on selling any legacy cards they're not using, so this event is surely damaging consumer confidence. It also makes people afraid of buying these cards from less reputable outlets, like eBay, or even from trading.
With the recent news of many counterfeits coming out of China, do you guys think this would prompt Wizards to get rid of the reserved list to reprint the dual lands with the new hologram? Some people here have already stated that they plan on selling any legacy cards they're not using, so this event is surely damaging consumer confidence. It also makes people afraid of buying these cards from less reputable outlets, like eBay, or even from trading.
I think it depends on what trends Hasbro sees in the market... Everyone could go burn all of their Dual Lands tomorrow and that wouldnt effect Hasbro's pocket at all. If a down trend in Legacy play correlates to a down trend in booster sales or FNM participation then you might see a change.
A question I have is how will this effect places like StarCityGames? They have been around well before Dual Lands were $100 cards. StarCity was alive and ticking when you could buy a playset of FOW or Tropical Island for under $100. They were making money then... will the counterfeit "scandle" hit the secondary market enough to cause these places to close? Or will it push them to try to eek out even more dollars in sealed product or in singles that they obtain on site from cracking packs.
I think it depends on what trends Hasbro sees in the market... Everyone could go burn all of their Dual Lands tomorrow and that wouldnt effect Hasbro's pocket at all. If a down trend in Legacy play correlates to a down trend in booster sales or FNM participation then you might see a change.
A question I have is how will this effect places like StarCityGames? They have been around well before Dual Lands were $100 cards. StarCity was alive and ticking when you could buy a playset of FOW or Tropical Island for under $100. They were making money then... will the counterfeit "scandle" hit the secondary market enough to cause these places to close? Or will it push them to try to eek out even more dollars in sealed product or in singles that they obtain on site from cracking packs.
Well, there are some standard cards like Jace, Ashiok, Sphinx's Revelation, and Domri included in the counterfeit batches of cards, so it might affect standard card sales too.
Well, there are some standard cards like Jace, Ashiok, Sphinx's Revelation, and Domri included in the counterfeit batches of cards, so it might affect standard card sales too.
It is going to affect everything short of limited. I'd say the hardest hit markets will be honest online sellers who find people are going to be very uneasy about buying online anymore. Ebay, etc.
Well, there are some standard cards like Jace, Ashiok, Sphinx's Revelation, and Domri included in the counterfeit batches of cards, so it might affect standard card sales too.
But will those counterfeits come out fast enough to have an impact... I imagine that the most sales of packs and boxes happens within the first month that a set is released and then the vast majority of opened product is from prizes and limited events. Will that be enough time for the counterfeiters to get a hold of the new cards to copy and print and then distribute through the system? Will people hold off on buying boxes and just buy counterfeits later? I doubt it. The majority of people will still want real cards. Hasbro doesnt really care if you dont buy that Jace from the kid that opened it... they care that someone opened the pack to begin with. So it could raise sealed product sales from people choosing to take the sealed product gamble over the counterfeit gamble.
But will those counterfeits come out fast enough to have an impact... I imagine that the most sales of packs and boxes happens within the first month that a set is released and then the vast majority of opened product is from prizes and limited events. Will that be enough time for the counterfeiters to get a hold of the new cards to copy and print and then distribute through the system? Will people hold off on buying boxes and just buy counterfeits later? I doubt it. The majority of people will still want real cards. Hasbro doesnt really care if you dont buy that Jace from the kid that opened it... they care that someone opened the pack to begin with. So it could raise sealed product sales from people choosing to take the sealed product gamble over the counterfeit gamble.
The interesting thing is, maybe they'll have to reprint a lot of old cards m15 onwards, you know to put the little sticker of Authenticity. Or maybe they'll do like banks and change old cards into a new printed card with the holofoil, but not sell some of the old cards.
There will be no discussion regarding the Chinese counterfeits in this thread. Period. Every thread that has started discussion about that subject has been locked due to the inability of many in the community to have civilized and intelligent discussion on the topic. We are taking a break from that subject for people to cool off.
There will be no discussion regarding the Chinese counterfeits in this thread. Period. Every thread that has started discussion about that subject has been locked due to the inability of many in the community to have civilized and intelligent discussion on the topic. We are taking a break from that subject for people to cool off.
I SWEAR this isnt about the counterfeits, but i am going to reference them for one thing.
Since the news broke about them, many of the people I know have been more willing to trade their legacy staples for other things. I have been able recently to actually acquire quite a few of the cards ive been dreaming of getting for Deathblade.
The reason I bring this up is because i think that if the reserved list were repealed there would be an overwhelming number of sources who would suddenly and magically have things like Revised Duals for trade. This is in addition to the reprints that would come out from Wizards. However, I only see this happening if wizards doesnt allow the big card shops to set the price like they did with modern masters. I will never understand why modern masters wasnt a set that was shipped to Target or Walmart. #1 they always sell for MSRP. #2 they carry every other product that i can think of. (save maybe from the vault products)
If the big card shops like SCJ are allowed to dictate what we, as consumers, are supposed to pay, then the abolishment of the reserved list will do very little, other than increase their stock of these cards. sure more people will have them, but look what happened to the price of Tarmogoyf with the advent of Modern Masters. (speaking of modern masters, i didnt see a reprint of the fetches, so we better be going back to zendikar in the next few blocks or you can bet that the price of those fetches will reach the 50+ mark as well)
In Conclusion, I think the abolishment of the Reserved list is a great idea. If anything, It will stop these printing companies from having such a large number of clients. Given the choice, if all things were similar, I think that 99.9% of people would rather buy from and support WotC
To me the Reserved list comes off as some old Monarchy that is no longer relevant to a more modern society.
Earth's population is growing. MTG player base is growing. Yet available cards stay the same, and are concentrated amongst a few people who lord over others. It's run it's course, it's time to go. By any means necessary I welcome this.
I SWEAR this isnt about the counterfeits, but i am going to reference them for one thing.
Since the news broke about them, many of the people I know have been more willing to trade their legacy staples for other things. I have been able recently to actually acquire quite a few of the cards ive been dreaming of getting for Deathblade.
The reason I bring this up is because i think that if the reserved list were repealed there would be an overwhelming number of sources who would suddenly and magically have things like Revised Duals for trade. This is in addition to the reprints that would come out from Wizards. However, I only see this happening if wizards doesnt allow the big card shops to set the price like they did with modern masters. I will never understand why modern masters wasnt a set that was shipped to Target or Walmart. #1 they always sell for MSRP. #2 they carry every other product that i can think of. (save maybe from the vault products)
If the big card shops like SCJ are allowed to dictate what we, as consumers, are supposed to pay, then the abolishment of the reserved list will do very little, other than increase their stock of these cards. sure more people will have them, but look what happened to the price of Tarmogoyf with the advent of Modern Masters. (speaking of modern masters, i didnt see a reprint of the fetches, so we better be going back to zendikar in the next few blocks or you can bet that the price of those fetches will reach the 50+ mark as well)
In Conclusion, I think the abolishment of the Reserved list is a great idea. If anything, It will stop these printing companies from having such a large number of clients. Given the choice, if all things were similar, I think that 99.9% of people would rather buy from and support WotC
The fetches were never meant to be in MM, the product announcement on Wizard's website said it would include cards from 8th edition to Alara Reborn, which was right before Zendikar.
And Misty Rainforest and Scalding Tarn are already $60 on SCG.
I'll reference the counterfeits simply to say that I don't think these will hurt the value of your $$$ cards on the reserve list. Collectors that value the real card will pay accordingly. The worst that happens is an upswing in players at the Legacy tournaments. That's not a bad thing, and it doesn't come at the expense of the Resere List.
It would matter just as much as it would in Legacy.EDH is an eternal format.
This is false. I'm running a 5 color good stuff deck with just basics, shard lands, shocklands and checklands and have not had one single game where the shockland life loss was relevant or where more than one checkland ever had to be played tapped. You're insane if you think the original duals are even sort of important in EDH.
This is false. I'm running a 5 color good stuff deck with just basics, shard lands, shocklands and checklands and have not had one single game where the shockland life loss was relevant or where more than one checkland ever had to be played tapped. You're insane if you think the original duals are even sort of important in EDH.
Are you also playing against individuals with 'budget' decks who don't include them either? If so, you're on an even playing field.
Obviously they're not absolutely essential per se. However, one can't deny that if your opponents have them in their decks and you don't, you'll always be at a disadvantage because your mana base is relatively less efficient and consistent. Like all other formats, mana consistency in edh is key, so the more duals you have (especially ones with no drawbacks), the better off you are. Realistically, anyone who plays edh using multi-colored decks and has spare ABUR duals which they're not using for legacy is going to include them in their edh deck lists. What possible (logical) argument could one possibly use to say it's more advantageous not to include them beyond perhaps their inclusion making the deck(s) they're in more tempting for would-be thieves to consider stealing.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
I SWEAR this isnt about the counterfeits, but i am going to reference them for one thing.
Since the news broke about them, many of the people I know have been more willing to trade their legacy staples for other things. I have been able recently to actually acquire quite a few of the cards ive been dreaming of getting for Deathblade.
The reason I bring this up is because i think that if the reserved list were repealed there would be an overwhelming number of sources who would suddenly and magically have things like Revised Duals for trade. This is in addition to the reprints that would come out from Wizards. However, I only see this happening if wizards doesnt allow the big card shops to set the price like they did with modern masters. I will never understand why modern masters wasnt a set that was shipped to Target or Walmart. #1 they always sell for MSRP. #2 they carry every other product that i can think of. (save maybe from the vault products)
If the big card shops like SCJ are allowed to dictate what we, as consumers, are supposed to pay, then the abolishment of the reserved list will do very little, other than increase their stock of these cards. sure more people will have them, but look what happened to the price of Tarmogoyf with the advent of Modern Masters. (speaking of modern masters, i didnt see a reprint of the fetches, so we better be going back to zendikar in the next few blocks or you can bet that the price of those fetches will reach the 50+ mark as well)
In Conclusion, I think the abolishment of the Reserved list is a great idea. If anything, It will stop these printing companies from having such a large number of clients. Given the choice, if all things were similar, I think that 99.9% of people would rather buy from and support WotC
That's funny, because I've literally never had a problem trading standard for legacy. It's literally the only way I've ever gotten legacy staples. Except my last collection, I bought some judge promo wastelands.
And I agree. It's a relic of the past that is only going to end up doing more harm to the game than good in the long run.
While that's absolutely true, people on both sides of the argument have this weird disconnect in their brain that make them think "Reserve list removed" means "the ten percent of the cards that have 90% of the demand immediately printed in huge amounts".
While that's absolutely true, people on both sides of the argument have this weird disconnect in their brain that make them think "Reserve list removed" means "the ten percent of the cards that have 90% of the demand immediately printed in huge amounts".
That always made me chuckle... and shake my head at the same time. I mean, we've already got plenty of expensive cards that aren't on the reserve list that are extremely expensive (Goyf, Bob, Clique, Wasteland, Force, Jace, fetches, etc.), and yet people think that abolishing the reserve list will somehow immediately bring the prices down somehow. In all likelihood, Wizards would handle reserve list cards the same way they've been handling most of the other "money" cards... as one-ofs in low print-run products like FTV and judge foils, or as mythics in supplementary sets like Modern Masters.
That always made me chuckle... and shake my head at the same time. I mean, we've already got plenty of expensive cards that aren't on the reserve list that are extremely expensive (Goyf, Bob, Clique, Wasteland, Force, Jace, fetches, etc.), and yet people think that abolishing the reserve list will somehow immediately bring the prices down somehow. In all likelihood, Wizards would handle reserve list cards the same way they've been handling most of the other "money" cards... as one-ofs in low print-run products like FTV and judge foils, or as mythics in supplementary sets like Modern Masters.
This exchange has been enlightening to me.
I support the reserved list, not because I'm sitting on an enormous mass of expensive staples, but because I think the game is better off with the eternal-formats being pricey and collectable, providing long-term playability for short-term expenses.
I like that eternal-formats are rare and 'special'. The fact that you're playing with classic Magic masterpieces is cool. The exclusivity of the formats adds to their appeal...but players are more exceptionally welcome to play eternal-formats as long as they have cards. Being starved for players, more people understand that being kind and understanding towards others is important to the health of the format. The eternal-format player base is generally less toxic than the more played, pro-tour circuit formats where individual players are more or less replaceable and competition more fierce.
On the other hand, I think inexperienced eternal-format players are toxic to the Standard environment. Especially new ones. If eternal -formats were reprinted in large numbers, I can imagine a lot of LGS's torn up by new kids with power and the format demographics would be disrupted in a harmful way. I suppose I shouldn't be so sociological about things, but I have noticed certain trends.
BUT, given that I wouldn't pay the current prices for eternal format staples, I think they deserve to come down a little. Unfortunately, they will never break their promise, and Legacy is 'doomed' to be the second Vintage. That's why the format must continue to appeal to current players rather than cycle new players interests in and out of it. Legacy's playerbase can be sustained as it is sustained right now: by strong tournament scenes in-between two large centers of population to enable regular Legacy tournaments of meaningful scale.
No matter what they do, it'll be a PR nightmare from one faction of their customers or another, which is why I'm glad that they have a more progressive approach in marketing the game. As long as the game as a whole remains healthy, there will be no business incentive for them to break their promise and Magic will not adopt the Yu-Gi-Oh model of regular format-implosion.
TL;DR - My personal preferences has been for a while that they print duals in Chinese to grow the game internationally, but now I understand why their business model depends on eternal-format scarcity. I just get sick of hear people wanting to reverse the current order of thing, which would negatively affect the high-quality of the product in a number of unimaginable ways.
Unfortunately, they will never break their promise, and Legacy is 'doomed' to be the second Vintage.
I'm not sure this is entirely true either. The main issue with this isn't the "reserve list" per se, it's dual lands. That's what most people refer to when they say "reserve list", and what people want most to be removed from the reserve list. The other cards on the reserve list are basically unimportant - nobody cares about Baron Sengir or Wood Elemental. The dual lands are the only reserved cards that tend to be used in all decks. The rest of them aren't that big a deal - LEDs are only really used in ANT, Gaea's Cradle only used in elves, and so on and so forth. The only real issue that's common to legacy is that every deck uses dual lands because they are the best.
So what's the solution?
Ban dual lands from legacy. In one stroke, you've effectively excised the majority effect of the reserved list on the format and opened it up to practically everybody.
I think wizards IS working on the reserve list. Look at this recent successful Jund List for example. Here's a list of the cards that were played that are on both that list and the reserve list:
If you reprint the duals or ban them, the cost of Legacy decks will drop from $2500 to $2000. The format is still nowhere near affordable.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
<It's clear you're a troll> now, and in the off chance if you don't understand why that statement strips any credibility you may have had, then there's clearly no reason to keep talking with you.
Actually, they have... Karakas, Show and Tell, Vindicate (Second wave), Wasteland, Imperial Recruiter, and more have all been printed as judge promos in recent history. Judge promos are actually the most likely places these cards will show up, and while Force of Will hasn't had that benefit we never know when it may happen.
Pleas do not call other users trolls. Flame warning issued. -Xen
Either explain why you think that is or just stop talking to me because I do not agree with you. Like it or not Modern is a replacement for Extended.
How much do judge promos impact availability? Certainly not to the same degree as printing them in a "legacy masters" style set. Those also all look like decent EDH cards which we know WotC is ok with supporting.
It's not a contract, and you're right, estoppel would be a long shot. I've always thought it would be considered a warranty or product guaranty.
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
I think judge promos are only given to level 2 or higher judges at high level tournaments such as GPs? Like I have a level 1 friend who said he didn't get a packet. Judge promos are very limited, but judges usually do sell them. The judge promo fetches are so expensive because they were only given out to judges who set up a new organized play system at a shop. So basically they had to find a store that didn't already have tournaments or leagues.
And once they are being done given out, that's it. They are not reprinted with the same art. Like we just got a new art Vindicate but it's not the same art. Since they're so limited, they rarely affect the prices of the original cards. Then they have nowhere to go but up if they are playable in eternal formats. The only judge promo that comes to mind that hasn't moved for a long time is Morphling. Usually they dip in price after a few months of being given out. Like judge promo Command Tower is fairly cheap, but when it first came out it was like $100. This was largely because the supply was low, and everyone wanted a foil Command Tower. As more copies got out into the market (I'm sure many judges kept theirs since they play EDH), I think it went down to around $60.
tl;dr judge promos start out high because there are very few of them at first, then they start to resemble the price of the original card, maybe even go down a little, then go up as the supply diminishes. Judge promos would be the perfect way to reprint reserved list cards, and it would be a nice present to judges who could either keep them or sell them for a lot of money. The originals are rarely affected. P3K Imperial Recruiter is still $200+ but the judge promo is $100. Legends Karakas is $100 but the judge promo is $85. But these promos will definitely go up as the supply dries up. And I just looked at the promo for Dark Confidant, holy crap, it's $200 now.
I think it depends on what trends Hasbro sees in the market... Everyone could go burn all of their Dual Lands tomorrow and that wouldnt effect Hasbro's pocket at all. If a down trend in Legacy play correlates to a down trend in booster sales or FNM participation then you might see a change.
A question I have is how will this effect places like StarCityGames? They have been around well before Dual Lands were $100 cards. StarCity was alive and ticking when you could buy a playset of FOW or Tropical Island for under $100. They were making money then... will the counterfeit "scandle" hit the secondary market enough to cause these places to close? Or will it push them to try to eek out even more dollars in sealed product or in singles that they obtain on site from cracking packs.
Well, there are some standard cards like Jace, Ashiok, Sphinx's Revelation, and Domri included in the counterfeit batches of cards, so it might affect standard card sales too.
It is going to affect everything short of limited. I'd say the hardest hit markets will be honest online sellers who find people are going to be very uneasy about buying online anymore. Ebay, etc.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
But will those counterfeits come out fast enough to have an impact... I imagine that the most sales of packs and boxes happens within the first month that a set is released and then the vast majority of opened product is from prizes and limited events. Will that be enough time for the counterfeiters to get a hold of the new cards to copy and print and then distribute through the system? Will people hold off on buying boxes and just buy counterfeits later? I doubt it. The majority of people will still want real cards. Hasbro doesnt really care if you dont buy that Jace from the kid that opened it... they care that someone opened the pack to begin with. So it could raise sealed product sales from people choosing to take the sealed product gamble over the counterfeit gamble.
The interesting thing is, maybe they'll have to reprint a lot of old cards m15 onwards, you know to put the little sticker of Authenticity. Or maybe they'll do like banks and change old cards into a new printed card with the holofoil, but not sell some of the old cards.
(Also known as Xenphire)
I SWEAR this isnt about the counterfeits, but i am going to reference them for one thing.
Since the news broke about them, many of the people I know have been more willing to trade their legacy staples for other things. I have been able recently to actually acquire quite a few of the cards ive been dreaming of getting for Deathblade.
The reason I bring this up is because i think that if the reserved list were repealed there would be an overwhelming number of sources who would suddenly and magically have things like Revised Duals for trade. This is in addition to the reprints that would come out from Wizards. However, I only see this happening if wizards doesnt allow the big card shops to set the price like they did with modern masters. I will never understand why modern masters wasnt a set that was shipped to Target or Walmart. #1 they always sell for MSRP. #2 they carry every other product that i can think of. (save maybe from the vault products)
If the big card shops like SCJ are allowed to dictate what we, as consumers, are supposed to pay, then the abolishment of the reserved list will do very little, other than increase their stock of these cards. sure more people will have them, but look what happened to the price of Tarmogoyf with the advent of Modern Masters. (speaking of modern masters, i didnt see a reprint of the fetches, so we better be going back to zendikar in the next few blocks or you can bet that the price of those fetches will reach the 50+ mark as well)
In Conclusion, I think the abolishment of the Reserved list is a great idea. If anything, It will stop these printing companies from having such a large number of clients. Given the choice, if all things were similar, I think that 99.9% of people would rather buy from and support WotC
Mimeoplasm, reanimator
Phelddagrif, superfriend/hugs
Edric, counter-target-player
Child of alara, Gods/Lands-Control
Titania, Timmy-combo
-Tiny Leaders-
Geist <under construction>
-Standard-
Esper Control
Earth's population is growing. MTG player base is growing. Yet available cards stay the same, and are concentrated amongst a few people who lord over others. It's run it's course, it's time to go. By any means necessary I welcome this.
So like Britain's royal family?
And I agree. It's a relic of the past that is only going to end up doing more harm to the game than good in the long run.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
The fetches were never meant to be in MM, the product announcement on Wizard's website said it would include cards from 8th edition to Alara Reborn, which was right before Zendikar.
And Misty Rainforest and Scalding Tarn are already $60 on SCG.
This is false. I'm running a 5 color good stuff deck with just basics, shard lands, shocklands and checklands and have not had one single game where the shockland life loss was relevant or where more than one checkland ever had to be played tapped. You're insane if you think the original duals are even sort of important in EDH.
Are you also playing against individuals with 'budget' decks who don't include them either? If so, you're on an even playing field.
Obviously they're not absolutely essential per se. However, one can't deny that if your opponents have them in their decks and you don't, you'll always be at a disadvantage because your mana base is relatively less efficient and consistent. Like all other formats, mana consistency in edh is key, so the more duals you have (especially ones with no drawbacks), the better off you are. Realistically, anyone who plays edh using multi-colored decks and has spare ABUR duals which they're not using for legacy is going to include them in their edh deck lists. What possible (logical) argument could one possibly use to say it's more advantageous not to include them beyond perhaps their inclusion making the deck(s) they're in more tempting for would-be thieves to consider stealing.
That's funny, because I've literally never had a problem trading standard for legacy. It's literally the only way I've ever gotten legacy staples. Except my last collection, I bought some judge promo wastelands.
While that's absolutely true, people on both sides of the argument have this weird disconnect in their brain that make them think "Reserve list removed" means "the ten percent of the cards that have 90% of the demand immediately printed in huge amounts".
That always made me chuckle... and shake my head at the same time. I mean, we've already got plenty of expensive cards that aren't on the reserve list that are extremely expensive (Goyf, Bob, Clique, Wasteland, Force, Jace, fetches, etc.), and yet people think that abolishing the reserve list will somehow immediately bring the prices down somehow. In all likelihood, Wizards would handle reserve list cards the same way they've been handling most of the other "money" cards... as one-ofs in low print-run products like FTV and judge foils, or as mythics in supplementary sets like Modern Masters.
This exchange has been enlightening to me.
I support the reserved list, not because I'm sitting on an enormous mass of expensive staples, but because I think the game is better off with the eternal-formats being pricey and collectable, providing long-term playability for short-term expenses.
I like that eternal-formats are rare and 'special'. The fact that you're playing with classic Magic masterpieces is cool. The exclusivity of the formats adds to their appeal...but players are more exceptionally welcome to play eternal-formats as long as they have cards. Being starved for players, more people understand that being kind and understanding towards others is important to the health of the format. The eternal-format player base is generally less toxic than the more played, pro-tour circuit formats where individual players are more or less replaceable and competition more fierce.
On the other hand, I think inexperienced eternal-format players are toxic to the Standard environment. Especially new ones. If eternal -formats were reprinted in large numbers, I can imagine a lot of LGS's torn up by new kids with power and the format demographics would be disrupted in a harmful way. I suppose I shouldn't be so sociological about things, but I have noticed certain trends.
BUT, given that I wouldn't pay the current prices for eternal format staples, I think they deserve to come down a little. Unfortunately, they will never break their promise, and Legacy is 'doomed' to be the second Vintage. That's why the format must continue to appeal to current players rather than cycle new players interests in and out of it. Legacy's playerbase can be sustained as it is sustained right now: by strong tournament scenes in-between two large centers of population to enable regular Legacy tournaments of meaningful scale.
No matter what they do, it'll be a PR nightmare from one faction of their customers or another, which is why I'm glad that they have a more progressive approach in marketing the game. As long as the game as a whole remains healthy, there will be no business incentive for them to break their promise and Magic will not adopt the Yu-Gi-Oh model of regular format-implosion.
TL;DR - My personal preferences has been for a while that they print duals in Chinese to grow the game internationally, but now I understand why their business model depends on eternal-format scarcity. I just get sick of hear people wanting to reverse the current order of thing, which would negatively affect the high-quality of the product in a number of unimaginable ways.
Legacy:
RWBG Goblins
RRR Burn
WBU Affinity
UBR Sac-Land Tendrils!
BBBPox
Next possible deck: D&T, but that just wouldn't be right.
Modern: R Goblins (work in progress)
Standard: I only care about standard when Goblins is a deck.
Limited: I only care about limited when Goblins are in the set.
Pauper:
RGoblins
URCloudpost
other decks
Goblins.
I'm not sure this is entirely true either. The main issue with this isn't the "reserve list" per se, it's dual lands. That's what most people refer to when they say "reserve list", and what people want most to be removed from the reserve list. The other cards on the reserve list are basically unimportant - nobody cares about Baron Sengir or Wood Elemental. The dual lands are the only reserved cards that tend to be used in all decks. The rest of them aren't that big a deal - LEDs are only really used in ANT, Gaea's Cradle only used in elves, and so on and so forth. The only real issue that's common to legacy is that every deck uses dual lands because they are the best.
So what's the solution?
Ban dual lands from legacy. In one stroke, you've effectively excised the majority effect of the reserved list on the format and opened it up to practically everybody.
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
Here's the BUG Delver list that won the same event.
Here are the reserved list cards it played:
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
As power creep continues to creep, more and more of the reserve list staples will be phased out to the point where the list hardly even matters.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit