There are two LGSes in my area. I usually play FNM at one, but decided to give the other a try for the first time last weekend.
At my usual FNM spot, all of the store employees participate, which makes for a very disorganized evening. Match time periods come and go without being announced; players are climbing over chairs and tables to hand in their match slips, often to store employees who are playing their own matches; and people claim certain seats that they occupy for the whole night. As a result, FNM typically gets done at 12:30 a.m. on a good night and 1 a.m. or later on most Friday nights.
I just assumed this was the way things were until I played at the other LGS. Assigned seats for each match; at least one employee who wasn't playing and whose sole job it was to run the tournament, collect match slips and input information in the computer; an a 10:30-11 p.m. end time.
Seeing how well the other store runs its FNM events, I was wondering if there was a polite way to suggest to my original store that at least one employee abstain from playing each week? With multiple workers, I don't imagine it would be difficult to rotate through the people who have to take a week off. Thoughts?
The only time I've seen all the employees play, the one in charge of the counter played his matches at the counter, so if you were against him you had to go up front.
Since then my store got at least one employee who doesn't play Magic at all and always has someone manning the counter/tournament.
There are typically two MtG employees, both of whom will play the FNM. If someone wants to buy something from the MtG side, they have to wait until it's convenient for the employee to head back behind the counter for a purchase.
The thing is, I don't know if anyone else has the same issues with this that I do, and I don't want to be "that guy" who complains about it. I don't suppose WotC has a rule I can cite.
There are typically two MtG employees, both of whom will play the FNM. If someone wants to buy something from the MtG side, they have to wait until it's convenient for the employee to head back behind the counter for a purchase.
The thing is, I don't know if anyone else has the same issues with this that I do, and I don't want to be "that guy" who complains about it. I don't suppose WotC has a rule I can cite.
This place sounds horrendously run.
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Definitely poor form on the part of that LGS, mostly likely the result of slack management (which is pretty common when it comes to game stores). If you are familiar with the manager/owner I would definitely mention it.
The exception would be if it is just a really small store or has very low attendance (like < 8 people for an FNM). If that is the case then I think it might make sense to have the employees play just to add more depth to the player base.
There are typically two MtG employees, both of whom will play the FNM. If someone wants to buy something from the MtG side, they have to wait until it's convenient for the employee to head back behind the counter for a purchase.
The thing is, I don't know if anyone else has the same issues with this that I do, and I don't want to be "that guy" who complains about it. I don't suppose WotC has a rule I can cite.
WotC doesn't run the store so no, there are no rules they could come up with that would mandate them to take care of their customers
The store where I work/play always has someone working, usually two someones, and then anyone off the clock is welcome to play. Now when I play I'll often help out, take results, do rulings, etc but I don't get paid and I'm not responsible for running anything.
Just as an example, this weekend I want to FNM but I am usually the one working, I found someone to cover my shift and now I get to play.
I used to go to to this LGS that had the same problem, the employees had to leave their matches every 10 minutes to attend a customer or something, but it was pretty casual with <15 people so no one ever complained.
How do they make sure people aren't stealing things while they are playing?
That would be my biggest concern as a store owner. Second would be all the lost revenue from frustrated customers who have to wait to purchase something and never come back.
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It's a combined comic book and game store. FNM attendance is very large. 30+ on any given Friday.
30+ tournament with only 2 employees on the clock, and both playing in the tournament? Yeah, that needs to be fixed or you need to stick with the other place for FNM. That's absolutely horrid.
At the LGS I used to go to (stopped going because I moved, not because I didn't like them), they were small enough that occasionally they wouldn't have enough people show to sanction -- not usually at FNM, but on other days it could be a problem. Employees would enter to fill up empty slots, but the employees would either play at the counter (as symar says), or they'd be seated at a position where they could keep an eye on the store.
The LGS I go to nowadays is much larger. They actually leased an expansion store in order to have enough space for their tournaments (so now the strip mall is Nail Salon-LGS-Game Rental Shop-LGS Expansion-Walmart), and they've always got at least 2 employees running the expansion side when it's open, at least 3 employees running the main store, and no employees (who are on the clock) participating in tournaments. In addition to that, for big stuff like a prerelease they've got a TO (who's not a regular employee) and somewhere around 5-8 judges patrolling the tournament floor. The HJ is generally seated by a laptop near the cash register, accepting result slips. Match pairings include a table number for you to play at, so there's no confusion over where to go sit.
If you can only afford to dedicate 2 employees to Magic, they don't get to play. Fullstop.
My LGS has it a bit better off, and rotates coverage for Friday and Saturday nights so that folks can get a chance to play, but they recognize that they're providing the "having an LGS" service first and foremost.
There's also a detail that worries me: what on earth does that store do for Judge calls?
they usually only play to fill out tables in my LGS, otherwise they don't participate in FNMs. They do play on the non FNM days though like Modern days or Legacy plus some non FNM standard.
There's also a detail that worries me: what on earth does that store do for Judge calls?
You look around the room for one of the employees (who are also the judges) and yell "JUDGE!" And then when they have a break in the game they're playing, they'll answer your question.
Based on all the responses I've gotten here, I think I'm going to talk to the store owner in the near future. The thing is that I love the Magic community at that store, but the events are so freakin' disorganized.
You look around the room for one of the employees (who are also the judges) and yell "JUDGE!" And then when they have a break in the game they're playing, they'll answer your question.
Based on all the responses I've gotten here, I think I'm going to talk to the store owner in the near future. The thing is that I love the Magic community at that store, but the events are so freakin' disorganized.
You could even offer to help organize events if you are so inclined. Maybe run a couple FNM's a month. That way you can help them start doing it right, and if you are lucky maybe they even give you some product for helping.
I personally wouldn't play at a store as disorganized as the one described.
In fact, after my long hiatus when I first started playing again, I went to a store which had (and still has) similar unprofessional practices. Aside from store employees participating in fnms when at least one should've refrained in order to remain objective for judge calls and be available for customers wanting to purchase from the showcase, events would always start 30-60 mins late, rounds would seemingly go on forever, prize support was weak, promos were inconsistent and unavailable without explanation, the store's inventory was low and overpriced, and events would almost always end after midnight, at which point I'd usually miss the last subway and have to take a taxi home.
The guys who work(ed) and play(ed) at that store are friendly and decent players, but I got tired of dealing with the same issue every week, so eventually I just said screw it and started going to stores who weren't constantly waiting for someone running late to start events or leaving rounds drag on to 90 mins. There are definitely times when I prefer playing in a casual setting where there's no pressure and it's not late at night, but more often than not I'd rather play somewhere which has a clock on the wall so everyone can see, respect, and conform to how much time is left in each round. In my experience, such stores usually also have more players, better competition, more individuals binders to trade with, better inventory, and better prices, so there's really no reason to keep playing at other stores where the employees are incompetent or selfish and put their own enjoyment above their clients'.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
There are two LGSes in my area. I usually play FNM at one, but decided to give the other a try for the first time last weekend.
At my usual FNM spot, all of the store employees participate, which makes for a very disorganized evening. Match time periods come and go without being announced; players are climbing over chairs and tables to hand in their match slips, often to store employees who are playing their own matches; and people claim certain seats that they occupy for the whole night. As a result, FNM typically gets done at 12:30 a.m. on a good night and 1 a.m. or later on most Friday nights.
I just assumed this was the way things were until I played at the other LGS. Assigned seats for each match; at least one employee who wasn't playing and whose sole job it was to run the tournament, collect match slips and input information in the computer; an a 10:30-11 p.m. end time.
Seeing how well the other store runs its FNM events, I was wondering if there was a polite way to suggest to my original store that at least one employee abstain from playing each week? With multiple workers, I don't imagine it would be difficult to rotate through the people who have to take a week off. Thoughts?
card shops are difficult there are so many, in low rent areas that literally any basement dweller with $1500 can open up shop.
there are multiple shops around here that literally keep their stock in ****ing boxes with sharpie written on them with an obese dude with nasty facial hair mouth breathing trying to sell card game packs and singles.
magic is generally reserved for society's outcasts who take it too seriously so its very difficult to find a winner (who went to college for a business admin, or masters in business admin) who actually knows how to run a business rather than a version of his basement with prices scribbled on masking tape and stuck to hard cases
You look around the room for one of the employees (who are also the judges) and yell "JUDGE!" And then when they have a break in the game they're playing, they'll answer your question.
Based on all the responses I've gotten here, I think I'm going to talk to the store owner in the near future. The thing is that I love the Magic community at that store, but the events are so freakin' disorganized.
So, what about appeals to the head judge? Are they playing to?
Having your judges present in the competition, even where not against rules, etc., is a bit of a nonbo.
magic is generally reserved for society's outcasts who take it too seriously so its very difficult to find a winner (who went to college for a business admin, or masters in business admin) who actually knows how to run a business rather than a version of his basement with prices scribbled on masking tape and stuck to hard cases
Then why do you ever go anywhere than someone's home to play magic? Not the "basement dwelling smelly fat guy's home", but yours or your friend's home? You clearly hate what you believe to be the demographic of magic is, so I can't imagine why you'd play with anyone you don't know, in a place you aren't familiar with.
edit: On-topic, the store I go to has 4 employees, with 3 of them being knowledgable about magic. One employee (also the judge) usually plays in FNM, while another mans the computer. It has worked well and as far as I know, there has never been a complaint. The rounds usually start within 5-10 minutes of the last one ending (its one thing when the clock hits 00:00, it's another when all the matches are finally done!).
So, what about appeals to the head judge? Are they playing to?
Having your judges present in the competition, even where not against rules, etc., is a bit of a nonbo.
Are any of the LGS employees certified judges?
The system I'd suggest to the owner of this shop is one where the employees who also play are floor judges & one employee (preferably a L1+ judge) doesn't play so that he/she can be listed as HJ & is free to run the counter & handle appeals.
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At my usual FNM spot, all of the store employees participate, which makes for a very disorganized evening. Match time periods come and go without being announced; players are climbing over chairs and tables to hand in their match slips, often to store employees who are playing their own matches; and people claim certain seats that they occupy for the whole night. As a result, FNM typically gets done at 12:30 a.m. on a good night and 1 a.m. or later on most Friday nights.
I just assumed this was the way things were until I played at the other LGS. Assigned seats for each match; at least one employee who wasn't playing and whose sole job it was to run the tournament, collect match slips and input information in the computer; an a 10:30-11 p.m. end time.
Seeing how well the other store runs its FNM events, I was wondering if there was a polite way to suggest to my original store that at least one employee abstain from playing each week? With multiple workers, I don't imagine it would be difficult to rotate through the people who have to take a week off. Thoughts?
Some employees? Sure, as long as there's enough staff to run the event and the store.
Since then my store got at least one employee who doesn't play Magic at all and always has someone manning the counter/tournament.
The thing is, I don't know if anyone else has the same issues with this that I do, and I don't want to be "that guy" who complains about it. I don't suppose WotC has a rule I can cite.
This place sounds horrendously run.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
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3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
The exception would be if it is just a really small store or has very low attendance (like < 8 people for an FNM). If that is the case then I think it might make sense to have the employees play just to add more depth to the player base.
WotC doesn't run the store so no, there are no rules they could come up with that would mandate them to take care of their customers
I'd talk to the owner/manager about it
Just as an example, this weekend I want to FNM but I am usually the one working, I found someone to cover my shift and now I get to play.
Then definitely bring it up to the floor manager or whatnot
Just tell him/her "I'd like to buy these cards but I'm not getting any service and must be on my way" or something like that.
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That would be my biggest concern as a store owner. Second would be all the lost revenue from frustrated customers who have to wait to purchase something and never come back.
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At the LGS I used to go to (stopped going because I moved, not because I didn't like them), they were small enough that occasionally they wouldn't have enough people show to sanction -- not usually at FNM, but on other days it could be a problem. Employees would enter to fill up empty slots, but the employees would either play at the counter (as symar says), or they'd be seated at a position where they could keep an eye on the store.
The LGS I go to nowadays is much larger. They actually leased an expansion store in order to have enough space for their tournaments (so now the strip mall is Nail Salon-LGS-Game Rental Shop-LGS Expansion-Walmart), and they've always got at least 2 employees running the expansion side when it's open, at least 3 employees running the main store, and no employees (who are on the clock) participating in tournaments. In addition to that, for big stuff like a prerelease they've got a TO (who's not a regular employee) and somewhere around 5-8 judges patrolling the tournament floor. The HJ is generally seated by a laptop near the cash register, accepting result slips. Match pairings include a table number for you to play at, so there's no confusion over where to go sit.
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My LGS has it a bit better off, and rotates coverage for Friday and Saturday nights so that folks can get a chance to play, but they recognize that they're providing the "having an LGS" service first and foremost.
There's also a detail that worries me: what on earth does that store do for Judge calls?
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You look around the room for one of the employees (who are also the judges) and yell "JUDGE!" And then when they have a break in the game they're playing, they'll answer your question.
Based on all the responses I've gotten here, I think I'm going to talk to the store owner in the near future. The thing is that I love the Magic community at that store, but the events are so freakin' disorganized.
You could even offer to help organize events if you are so inclined. Maybe run a couple FNM's a month. That way you can help them start doing it right, and if you are lucky maybe they even give you some product for helping.
In fact, after my long hiatus when I first started playing again, I went to a store which had (and still has) similar unprofessional practices. Aside from store employees participating in fnms when at least one should've refrained in order to remain objective for judge calls and be available for customers wanting to purchase from the showcase, events would always start 30-60 mins late, rounds would seemingly go on forever, prize support was weak, promos were inconsistent and unavailable without explanation, the store's inventory was low and overpriced, and events would almost always end after midnight, at which point I'd usually miss the last subway and have to take a taxi home.
The guys who work(ed) and play(ed) at that store are friendly and decent players, but I got tired of dealing with the same issue every week, so eventually I just said screw it and started going to stores who weren't constantly waiting for someone running late to start events or leaving rounds drag on to 90 mins. There are definitely times when I prefer playing in a casual setting where there's no pressure and it's not late at night, but more often than not I'd rather play somewhere which has a clock on the wall so everyone can see, respect, and conform to how much time is left in each round. In my experience, such stores usually also have more players, better competition, more individuals binders to trade with, better inventory, and better prices, so there's really no reason to keep playing at other stores where the employees are incompetent or selfish and put their own enjoyment above their clients'.
card shops are difficult there are so many, in low rent areas that literally any basement dweller with $1500 can open up shop.
there are multiple shops around here that literally keep their stock in ****ing boxes with sharpie written on them with an obese dude with nasty facial hair mouth breathing trying to sell card game packs and singles.
magic is generally reserved for society's outcasts who take it too seriously so its very difficult to find a winner (who went to college for a business admin, or masters in business admin) who actually knows how to run a business rather than a version of his basement with prices scribbled on masking tape and stuck to hard cases
So, what about appeals to the head judge? Are they playing to?
Having your judges present in the competition, even where not against rules, etc., is a bit of a nonbo.
Then why do you ever go anywhere than someone's home to play magic? Not the "basement dwelling smelly fat guy's home", but yours or your friend's home? You clearly hate what you believe to be the demographic of magic is, so I can't imagine why you'd play with anyone you don't know, in a place you aren't familiar with.
edit: On-topic, the store I go to has 4 employees, with 3 of them being knowledgable about magic. One employee (also the judge) usually plays in FNM, while another mans the computer. It has worked well and as far as I know, there has never been a complaint. The rounds usually start within 5-10 minutes of the last one ending (its one thing when the clock hits 00:00, it's another when all the matches are finally done!).
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Are any of the LGS employees certified judges?
The system I'd suggest to the owner of this shop is one where the employees who also play are floor judges & one employee (preferably a L1+ judge) doesn't play so that he/she can be listed as HJ & is free to run the counter & handle appeals.
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