I was playing a kid at fnm whose deck was jam packed with these type of cards and honestly i felt sorry for him. Its as though wizards inentionally put these in sets to trick people. How many times do they need to print these type of cards before they realize they are not playable, even in limited?
Is it so wrong to print an angels mercy that cantrips, so that the players who run them at least have a chance to do well? Renewed faith saw some play back in the day. Do they really have to print skill tester cards? An angels mercy that draws a card is still worse than thragtusk, but at least it can be playable in draft and for budget players
i agree, magic would be a better game if every card was the exact same power level, such that no one could ever make a mistake and/or learn about the game, and a new player who picks 10 fun looking cards at random would build just as strong a deck as the top pros.
I really hate it when wizards prints cards that seem decent to new players, but that everyone else knows suck.
Thinks like search warrant and angels mercY
I was playing a kid at fnm whose deck was jam packed with these type of cards and honestly i felt sorry for him. Its as though wizards inentionally put these in sets to trick people. How many times do they need to print these type of cards before they realize they are not playable, even in limited?
Is it so wrong to print an angels mercy that cantrips, so that the players who run them at least have a chance to do well? Renewed faith saw some play back in the day. Do they really have to print skill tester cards? An angels mercy that draws a card is still worse than thragtusk, but at least it can be playable in draft and for budget players
Tough luck, Wizards HATES the opposite -- cards that suck to new players, but are awesome to old/tournament players. Wizards, for instance, hates arc-slogger.
i agree, magic would be a better game if every card was the exact same power level, such that no one could ever make a mistake and/or learn about the game, and a new player who picks 10 fun looking cards at random would build just as strong a deck as the top pros.
Phyrexian Metamorph is miles better than Clone, but the latter can still be used as a budget replacement and win games.
Thragtusk compared to Angel's Mercy isn't even comparable, and is just lazy card design in my opinion.
They don't have to push all cards to be equal in power, but they can at least look to see what cards new players are attracted to and make them slightly better so as not to completely waste cardboard.
i agree, magic would be a better game if every card was the exact same power level, such that no one could ever make a mistake and/or learn about the game, and a new player who picks 10 fun looking cards at random would build just as strong a deck as the top pros.
Not sure if serious... Why not just play Poker at that point?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
I was playing a kid at fnm whose deck was jam packed with these type of cards and honestly i felt sorry for him. Its as though wizards inentionally put these in sets to trick people. How many times do they need to print these type of cards before they realize they are not playable, even in limited?
It is intentional, because it's all about the money.
And I agree, it sucks. At the very least, why print cards like Eager Cadet that are strictly and directly inferior to cards like Death Speakers? Printing cards that are exactly the same as previously published non-broken cards, except less, is just lame; even newbies can see the relative value.
You guys are forgetting that the game isn't made just for top-quality tournament level cards. The majority of players are people just like the OP played against, casual players, and that's who wizards mostly markets to. Just because people want to have fun playing a game you're going to berate wizards over it and feel sorry for someone who's new to the game? I really wish this kinda thing would stop.
Let me put it into context for you. I just played a game using a standard legal cat themed deck (I'm an experienced player but I just wanted to throw something together for fun). Honestly the deck was horrible, but you know what? I had more fun playing that deck than I have with any other deck in standard so far. Imagine my surprise when I beat a Delver deck.
Some cards are bad, so what? I personally enjoy playing with bad cards and winning. That's why they're "Skill cards".
search warrant is decent in limited because it lets you peek at the opponents hand, which is valuable in controlling azorius decks. While a lower cc and drawing a card would be a little better, gaining a good amount of life from it can save you against aggro.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I played against an opponent who used search warrant on me in RTR draft on MTGO. At first I was like "lulz this noob" but then the 6 life he gained AND he knew what I would be possibly doing for the next turn or two kind of stalled the game for him a bit. I think in the right limited deck Search Warrant can be good as a stall and strategic tactic. Obviously better early game
I do not mind life gain cards. My friend Denny is pretty new to the game and loves them. I think it is important to reward players for skill because otherwise the older players will complain a bunch that Wizards is ruining complexity and making it a game for n00bs. They will probably also compare it to YuGiOh. So with cards like these, old players get to feel superior for knowing not to play them and new players like Denny get to have fun while learning to play the game. Everybody wins!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Nicol Bolas is so awesome! And so is Kokusho! Bolas x Kokusho 4eva!!! <3
Read their story here!
I do not mind life gain cards. My friend Denny is pretty new to the game and loves them. I think it is important to reward players for skill because otherwise the older players will complain a bunch that Wizards is ruining complexity and making it a game for n00bs. They will probably also compare it to YuGiOh. So with cards like these, old players get to feel superior for knowing not to play them and new players like Denny get to have fun while learning to play the game. Everybody wins!
Except new players do not win. They lose all of their matches for running bad cards, and until someone points it out to them they will not understand why they are losing.
Except new players do not win. They lose all of their matches for running bad cards, and until someone points it out to them they will not understand why they are losing.
Unless of course they do not mind this.
Yeah, what kind of crappy game rewards you with getting better at the game the more you play. Sounds terrible.
Except new players do not win. They lose all of their matches for running bad cards, and until someone points it out to them they will not understand why they are losing.
Unless of course they do not mind this.
No, what happens is they have fun with those cards for a while, then wonder why they are losing and try to improve their deck, thus learning how some cards are better than others. Or they just stick with their cheap, fun deck and play in a meta of others with similarly powerful decks. You can have fun with what you have or work to improve your skill. That is how games work.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Nicol Bolas is so awesome! And so is Kokusho! Bolas x Kokusho 4eva!!! <3
Read their story here!
I tried to help tune a guy's standard Intro-pack special today. It started out as Selesnya, but he was splashing a color and it ended up more midrange-control, trying to stall the ground from turns 4-8. He had a few good dual lands, some decent removal and bombs, and the deck was honestly looking pretty good. But he wouldn't let me cut two cards that he said were awesome: Judge's Familiar and Bond Beetle. I explained that a midrange-ish deck like his had no need for those cards, and they weren't particularly impressive anyway, and he had no way to capitalize on the early aggression, and his turn one land was often going to be a guildgate anyway, but he would have none of it. So we kept them in, and every game he drew it he lost, and he still didn't see that it was because of these awful cards.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
Part of the reason is just elegance. It's elegant to have a 4 mana card that gains 7 life. Not everything needs to have a cantrip rider attached cluttering it up. Could we use a few more cantrips to make things better, yea, sure. The occasional Renewed Faith is fine, but making everything into Renewed Faith is not.
It is intentional, because it's all about the money.
That really has nothing to do with this particular situation. Making Angel's Mercy suck slightly less isn't going to change one whit about what gets played in competitive environments, and isn't going to change Mythics and Rares sucking up value, and isn't going to make much of a difference at all. Oh really, stores will crack less packs now because Angel's Mercy was changed to 5 life and a cantrip instead of 7 life?
Except new players do not win. They lose all of their matches for running bad cards, and until someone points it out to them they will not understand why they are losing.
Not all new players.. Some people pick up the game easily.
If you couldn't leaf through the mana costs of the cards and compare the abilities/power/toughness to that of other cards, I apologize...
You were a slow magic learner.
Others can pick up the game and start winning game 2, 3, 4, or even 1.
(I had been playing for a week, went to the Innistrad pre-release and went 3-1. I have friends whom which I taught the game and they placed in releases after playing at the kitchen table for a few weeks. I have other friends who've played for a year, know all the rules, but still suck. The logic of a strategic card game doesn't click for some. You must develop your own tactics, reading a book on M:tG does nothing for you. My girlfriend can dominate her college classes just fine but still has trouble with power and toughness exchanges after we've played 5 times. Learning curves are different for everyone.
As for me, I played 2 Search Warrant in limited and it was fantastic. It even stayed in my deck for a solid week after the release until it was finally replaced. I'd pay one mana for a peek all day, add a second and give me an easy 5-6 life? I'm ok with that.
New players love life gain. They love charging at the goals every time they get the ball and they love explosions more than character development. Let 'em have their fun. That guy's deck probably destroys all his friends and leaves him at a Timmy-tastic 85 life.
This post is very reminiscent of when I started playing and brings back such fond memories :3
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
I recently got one of my friends into magic. He's still a beginner, but one of the first things I taught him that life gain is worthless on it's lonesome. It just delays the inevitable, and why do that why you can just play a solution? Playing lifegain and losing is just as unfun as just losing outright. It's not that hard of a concept to teach, honestly. Just beat him over the head with a casual, yet powerful deck - hell, just play something janky like mono black exalted with tormented souls.
The thing is, they get caught up on a singular facet of the game, and it is your duty as their friend to show him other parts of the game. Show him combo, show him tempo, he won't know what's fun until he tries it. My friend has always been a fan of just beating a guy over the head with a mace, in all the rpg games over the year he's always the warrior, knight, berserker, whatever. But, he found that just having synergistic cards was quite fun, sort of like watching how the gears in a clock all interlock, and that well oiled feeling of bolt-action. Just expose him to other things, seriously.
Putting a life gain card into a competive build that you hope gets you first at some PTQ or something would be bad. Putting a life gain card into your kitchen-table-having-fun-with-the-wife/gf/buddy deck is not bad.
Some folks are just too competitive and lose sight of the fact that some folks play the same game they do but do so just for fun.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." Frederic Bastiat
I've sideboarded into Angel's Mercy before in draft. I'm not saying that there couldn't have been better cards to pick up for my deck, but Angel's Mercy is what I had. In the game where I played it, it basically became a slightly worse Fog, but that was enough to buy me time against an aggressive deck, and I stabilized and won.
Phyrexian Metamorph is miles better than Clone, but the latter can still be used as a budget replacement and win games.
Thragtusk compared to Angel's Mercy isn't even comparable, and is just lazy card design in my opinion.
They don't have to push all cards to be equal in power, but they can at least look to see what cards new players are attracted to and make them slightly better so as not to completely waste cardboard.
This isn't really a fair comparison. Thragtusk would be better compared to Kitchen Finks. Gains liife, and gets value after it dies.
A better comparison would be Angel's Mercy to Healing Salve, or Rest for the Weary (which by the way has been playable in constructed)
Otherwise I could say this Ancestral Recall compared to Sea Gate Oracle isn't even comparable, and is just lazy card deign in my opinion
Thinks like search warrant and angels mercy
I was playing a kid at fnm whose deck was jam packed with these type of cards and honestly i felt sorry for him. Its as though wizards inentionally put these in sets to trick people. How many times do they need to print these type of cards before they realize they are not playable, even in limited?
Is it so wrong to print an angels mercy that cantrips, so that the players who run them at least have a chance to do well? Renewed faith saw some play back in the day. Do they really have to print skill tester cards? An angels mercy that draws a card is still worse than thragtusk, but at least it can be playable in draft and for budget players
Tough luck, Wizards HATES the opposite -- cards that suck to new players, but are awesome to old/tournament players. Wizards, for instance, hates arc-slogger.
https://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/65
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
It doesn't have to be the exact same power level.
Vampire Nighthawk is a better card than Seraph of Dawn, but at least the latter isn't totally unplayable.
Phyrexian Metamorph is miles better than Clone, but the latter can still be used as a budget replacement and win games.
Thragtusk compared to Angel's Mercy isn't even comparable, and is just lazy card design in my opinion.
They don't have to push all cards to be equal in power, but they can at least look to see what cards new players are attracted to and make them slightly better so as not to completely waste cardboard.
Not sure if serious... Why not just play Poker at that point?
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
To be fair, I can construct unrealistic situations where being kicked in the balls can be rather helpful.
Not that that has any bearing on reality.
At all.
Even a little.
peasantcube.blogspot.com
It is intentional, because it's all about the money.
And I agree, it sucks. At the very least, why print cards like Eager Cadet that are strictly and directly inferior to cards like Death Speakers? Printing cards that are exactly the same as previously published non-broken cards, except less, is just lame; even newbies can see the relative value.
Let me put it into context for you. I just played a game using a standard legal cat themed deck (I'm an experienced player but I just wanted to throw something together for fun). Honestly the deck was horrible, but you know what? I had more fun playing that deck than I have with any other deck in standard so far. Imagine my surprise when I beat a Delver deck.
Some cards are bad, so what? I personally enjoy playing with bad cards and winning. That's why they're "Skill cards".
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
peasantcube.blogspot.com
Nicol Bolas is so awesome! And so is Kokusho!
Bolas x Kokusho 4eva!!! <3
Read their story here!
BMy Little KokushoB
RBRakdos UNLEASHED!!!RB
My Standard Decks:
UGRakdos, Bolas, and Ludevic Go To A PartyUG
Except new players do not win. They lose all of their matches for running bad cards, and until someone points it out to them they will not understand why they are losing.
Unless of course they do not mind this.
Yeah, what kind of crappy game rewards you with getting better at the game the more you play. Sounds terrible.
No, what happens is they have fun with those cards for a while, then wonder why they are losing and try to improve their deck, thus learning how some cards are better than others. Or they just stick with their cheap, fun deck and play in a meta of others with similarly powerful decks. You can have fun with what you have or work to improve your skill. That is how games work.
Nicol Bolas is so awesome! And so is Kokusho!
Bolas x Kokusho 4eva!!! <3
Read their story here!
BMy Little KokushoB
RBRakdos UNLEASHED!!!RB
My Standard Decks:
UGRakdos, Bolas, and Ludevic Go To A PartyUG
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
That really has nothing to do with this particular situation. Making Angel's Mercy suck slightly less isn't going to change one whit about what gets played in competitive environments, and isn't going to change Mythics and Rares sucking up value, and isn't going to make much of a difference at all. Oh really, stores will crack less packs now because Angel's Mercy was changed to 5 life and a cantrip instead of 7 life?
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
Not all new players.. Some people pick up the game easily.
If you couldn't leaf through the mana costs of the cards and compare the abilities/power/toughness to that of other cards, I apologize...
You were a slow magic learner.
Others can pick up the game and start winning game 2, 3, 4, or even 1.
(I had been playing for a week, went to the Innistrad pre-release and went 3-1. I have friends whom which I taught the game and they placed in releases after playing at the kitchen table for a few weeks. I have other friends who've played for a year, know all the rules, but still suck. The logic of a strategic card game doesn't click for some. You must develop your own tactics, reading a book on M:tG does nothing for you. My girlfriend can dominate her college classes just fine but still has trouble with power and toughness exchanges after we've played 5 times. Learning curves are different for everyone.
As for me, I played 2 Search Warrant in limited and it was fantastic. It even stayed in my deck for a solid week after the release until it was finally replaced. I'd pay one mana for a peek all day, add a second and give me an easy 5-6 life? I'm ok with that.
This post is very reminiscent of when I started playing and brings back such fond memories :3
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
The thing is, they get caught up on a singular facet of the game, and it is your duty as their friend to show him other parts of the game. Show him combo, show him tempo, he won't know what's fun until he tries it. My friend has always been a fan of just beating a guy over the head with a mace, in all the rpg games over the year he's always the warrior, knight, berserker, whatever. But, he found that just having synergistic cards was quite fun, sort of like watching how the gears in a clock all interlock, and that well oiled feeling of bolt-action. Just expose him to other things, seriously.
Life gain cards are not bad cards.
Putting a life gain card into a competive build that you hope gets you first at some PTQ or something would be bad. Putting a life gain card into your kitchen-table-having-fun-with-the-wife/gf/buddy deck is not bad.
Some folks are just too competitive and lose sight of the fact that some folks play the same game they do but do so just for fun.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
This isn't really a fair comparison.
Thragtusk would be better compared to Kitchen Finks. Gains liife, and gets value after it dies.
A better comparison would be Angel's Mercy to Healing Salve, or Rest for the Weary (which by the way has been playable in constructed)
Otherwise I could say this
Ancestral Recall compared to Sea Gate Oracle isn't even comparable, and is just lazy card deign in my opinion
MOD::symw::symu::symb: Gifts
LEG::symg::symb: Infect