After reading Rosewater's article for today, why is Zendikar so popular? I thought landfall was boring and the vampires felt like a tacked on afterthought by development (actually I think they were...).
Zendikar limited was also depressingly fast, and unlike Gatecrash, there was no multicolor theme to slow it down.
Was it the fetchlands, the "priceless treasures," or the special basic lands? Maybe something else? What am I missing that other players found so enjoyable about that set?
After reading Rosewater's article for today, why is Zendikar so popular? I thought landfall was boring and the vampires felt like a tacked on afterthought by development (actually I think they were...).
Zendikar limited was also depressingly fast, and unlike Gatecrash, there was no multicolor theme to slow it down.
Was it the fetchlands, the "priceless treasures," or the special basic lands? Maybe something else? What am I missing that other players found so enjoyable about that set?
You do realize he put Zendikar up against Unhinged and Mirrodin so of course Zendikar will win there as for the last vote its just a difference of flavor. As popular as Ravinca is their some who either didn't like it(or the format it helped produce) or weren't playing magic during its release.
If you want to ban powerful cards, why not Islands? They have been proven to be fairly unfair in most cases.
The worst turn 1 play you can face down is Draw, play basic Island and say, "go"
Overall it was one of my favorite blocks...tacked on or not, the vamps were amazing (far better than innistrad's 2 good vamps). Landfall was a lot of fun...Boros aggro, OB Nixilis, valakut, crab mill all were really fun (well titans made valakut get old)
Goblins and elves were both decent at least. And the flavor was great, exactly where magic needs to be with fantasy and high adventure.
Frankly the last two blocks bore me to tears. Sure mechanically they are good but flavor wise it doesn't feel like magic to me.
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Also, Zendikar was the first plane to bring low casting cost vampires. Previously we had the Sengir Vampires et al... and this time we had the 'bleeding' theme which tied it together well.
Enemy Fetches were awesome and were the EDH/multiplayer cards.
Was it the fetchlands, the "priceless treasures," or the special basic lands? Maybe something else? What am I missing that other players found so enjoyable about that set?
A bunch of things made it popular. It was all these that you listed, plus more. First, some people like fast draft environments.
Next, many people really liked landfall, as it was a simple, yet powerful ability that had a lot of depth to it.
And speaking of power, the set had a ton of strong cards. People enjoyed that even though it eventually lead to one of the most degenerate decks Standard has ever seen when Worldwake and Scars were released (Cawblade).
Personally speaking, I think the flavor was really good, too. The only thing I didn't really like were the Eldrazi which changed the entire block structure and dropped so many mechanics that made Zendikar cool. I'd say Zendikar is in my top 5 favorite sets.
tacked on or not, the vamps were amazing (far better than innistrad's 2 good vamps).
this.
i feel that vampires shouldn't be b/r with overcosted, useless abilities.
vampires should be cheap, low power/toughness creatures that work well together via inherent synergy.
the zendikar vampire deck practically built itself.
While I love landfall (one of the most simple, elegant and balanced recent mechanics) I really hate the vampires. They where inhumanly cheap, I felt embarrased when I won with them and frustrated when I lost against them. I'm not the sort that consider a card like Vampire Nighthawk or Gatekeeper of Malakir "good", I consider them poorly designed.
It was the block I was introduced MTG with, and it will forever live in my heart. Landfall was a fun mechanic, Elves were playable, goblins were playable, vamps were playable, allies were playable, and it was the first block set that blew the power level of creatures out of the water, and I like creature combat.
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Also: The block contained the most brutally overpowered planeswalker ever, which fueled the Caw Blade deck a lot of players at the time genuinely liked (though a lot more players hated it and Jace and Stoneforge wound up getting the axe, but hey).
Also: The block contained the most brutally overpowered planeswalker ever, which fueled the Caw Blade deck a lot of players at the time genuinely liked (though a lot more players hated it and Jace and Stoneforge wound up getting the axe, but hey).
To be fair, the topic is about the Zendikar Set, not the block as per MaRo's article.
I think Zendikar captured the exploration theme very well
Plus, this block introduced two badly designed cards, namely stoneforge and jace 2.0, which should both have cost at least a mana more.
Those are development problems, not design.
Though I didn't play zendikar (so can't comment on limited and such), looking at the block, there are many things I like:
Many fairly strong commons and uncommons.
Vampires (I find them more interesting than zombies for main black race, but both can exist together so no need to fight for space).
Sorin
Kicker
Landfall
Full art lands were nice, the "adventure world" was nice, the art was good, tribal stuff I'm neutral about and Lotus Cobra is evil.
The primary complaint about Zendikar is the speed of the limited format. It's a valid complaint, as I'm not fond of how ridiculously fast it was. But it's also not a major concern for most people.
Things like popular and cool cards, strong mechanics like Kicker and Landfall, lots of cards that are powerful and see play in many formats, tribal themes and a very cool creative world environment are going to be much larger factors for a large portion of the player base.
As much as I would prefer to draft most other sets as opposed to Zen-Zen-Zen, there is a lot to like about the set and I'm rather fond of it.
Zendikar is one of, if not my favorite set. When I got back into the game after a long hiatus, Zendikar block was winding down, I wish I had more time playing it when it was standard legal.
Zendikar limited was great, I didn't have a chance to play it much when the set was out, but I played the crap out of it when they brought it back on mtgo before the GTC release. It is very fast, but there are ways to beat the forced R/B aggro deck, and there are a lot of other available deck options within the format. People compare current GTC to ZEN limited, and I think Zen was so much better.
Personally, I think Landfall was one of the best mechanics ever, and all the land shenanigans (instant speed harrow after no blocks are assigned to a woodcrasher) really helped make it a unique and fun set. I'm a sucker for land fetch though, so its partly personal preference.
Unfortunately, I think they followed it up with one of the worst blocks. SOM, just did nothing for me. I really don't like any of the artifact themed blocks.
Don't forget that Duels of the Planeswalkers had just come out for the first time. It was fairly successful right away, and they had just relaunched the core set that year right before ZEN came out. So we had a surge in new players at the time. Chalk on the "Priceless Treasures," full art lands, return of the fetches, and the shortage in product that all of these caused... people were going NUTS over the set. There was a couple of weeks where you couldn't find ZEN on the shelves, so when it came back the second print run quickly sold out.
Compare it to ISD last year, it was sort of the same style of jump in new players. People "got" the flavor, and the top down design was so innovative for the time (we really hadn't seen anything like it before). It was the begining of something BIG, and you could feel it in the air. That and Shards was really a dog of a set and people were suffering from Fae/Jund hangovers... ZEN made us think that Standard would see changes.
Zendikar has fetchlands and full art basics, it's a pretty good set value wise.
My friends and I had B/R zombies foiled, that deck was pretty solid.
I built some decent G/R beats deck in Zendikar before scars, it went 2-2 at a couple FNMs even without BBE.
It was probably the best block we'll see for a while.
I had a UB control deck with Nighthawk and Gatekeeper on the sideboard, when the meta shifted to more aggro I brought them in main. Mindsculpter was so good. Pyromancer's Ascension was decent.
That being said I hated the eldrazi. They're ****ing yugioh cards. If I want to cast exodia, I'd play a different game.
i LOVED Zendikar. It was the first set I (re)started with, but I feel like they nailed the whole adventure, lands alive feel. I got swept up in the lore and flavor of the set. I do think that ROE and the way they handled that kind of soured the block, but ZEN and WWK were amazing.
I love Zendikar, best set ever! These were my Zendikar highlights:
+Allies - favourite tribe ever
+Fetchlands
+Manlands
+Eldrazi - i'm a fan of annihilator in EDH
+Felidar Sovereign - my win con for my casual deck
+Vampire Nighthawk/Gatekeeper of Malakir/Kalastria Highborn/Malakir Bloodwitch/Vampire Hexmage - awesome vampires all over the place
+Landfall - love Hedron Crab
I completely agree with the above two posters. Everytime I see a card with a Zendikar or Worldwake symbol on them, I get a little nostalgic. Part of it has to do with the fact that I was just getting back into MTG around that time, but I really enjoyed the ZEN-era Standard a lot more than any Standard since then. So much flavor, fun and powerful decks, etc. etc.
I love the flavor, I love the mechanics, I love the art, plus there's lots of really cool cards in zendikar, a lot of which are playable, much more so compared to other blocks.
Seriously, you can never be disappointed with a pack of zendikar. There will be at least one playable card in your pack guaranteed, whether it be a full art land, or a fetch land. Same goes for the other sets. Of course it has its garbage cards, but a lot of cards in zendikar are worth more than 50 cents. And honestly, I can't think of a card I would just absolutely hate to see as my rare, like some of the newer blocks have (see creepy doll).
Quest Cards, Level Up Creatures, Interesting Landfall mechanics, Cheap Vampires, Full Art Lands, Fetchlands that finally completed the cycle started in Onslaught, Vengevine, Jace, Stoneforge Mystic, Mythic Conscription, Splintertwin, Valakut, Allies, the return of Elfball, Gideon Jura, Eldritch Abominations (Eldrazi).
This was a true fantasy inspired Magic set. It didn't have any extra tacked on settings until the Eldrazi arrived. It didn't need a Horror sub theme (although I love Innistrad), didn't need to be in a city, or a Japanese plane, or a plane of metal. It was just a true taste of fantasy. Something I've been starving for ever since the days of Dominaria/Otaria in 2000.
I usually feel like I am one of the few people who honestly Hated Zendikar. I'm not saying it was a bad block, it was just a bit against my playstyle for me to enjoy it. I didn't care too much for the adventurer theme (I actually prefer Innistrad and Ravnica and the ilk), I did like Landfall, Totem Armor, and the nonbasic lands ZEN had to offer, but other than that I didn't have much taste for it...to the point where I had a hard time staying in the game when it came out.
I did think that it degenerated the game mechanic vs flavor a bit too much, allowing for an excuse to bring power up even more, though these are my same problems with the original Mirrodin block.
Again though, that being said, that is my opinion, and most people actually really love ZEN
I thought the flavor of Zendikar was an epic fail. I had no idea the set was designed around exploration until someone told me. But that goes for ever set these days, either the flavor is unrecognizable or they hit yo over the head with it so hard you feint. Set/Block flavor is one area MTG has really lost it's way
But as for why it's popular, I gotta go with the fetches, 5 rare lands played in every single format makes a lot of demand.
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Zendikar limited was also depressingly fast, and unlike Gatecrash, there was no multicolor theme to slow it down.
Was it the fetchlands, the "priceless treasures," or the special basic lands? Maybe something else? What am I missing that other players found so enjoyable about that set?
You do realize he put Zendikar up against Unhinged and Mirrodin so of course Zendikar will win there as for the last vote its just a difference of flavor. As popular as Ravinca is their some who either didn't like it(or the format it helped produce) or weren't playing magic during its release.
BaconoftheArk speaks the truth:
Goblins and elves were both decent at least. And the flavor was great, exactly where magic needs to be with fantasy and high adventure.
Frankly the last two blocks bore me to tears. Sure mechanically they are good but flavor wise it doesn't feel like magic to me.
BEtched Champion/InfectB
WSoilders/knightsW
WUVenser SplicerWU
RRDWR
GFeed the Pack comboG
WUPool of ExhaustionWU
EDH
GEzuri, Elf OverrunG
BGeth, GraverobberB
UThada Adel, ThiefU
RUrabrask, Big RedR
WElesh Norn, CrusadeW
WUGAngus Makenzie, Bant ControlWUG
Extended
WGElvesWG
Legacy
RGoblinsR
UBGFariesUBG
UBGRaffinityUBG
Also, Zendikar was the first plane to bring low casting cost vampires. Previously we had the Sengir Vampires et al... and this time we had the 'bleeding' theme which tied it together well.
Enemy Fetches were awesome and were the EDH/multiplayer cards.
A bunch of things made it popular. It was all these that you listed, plus more. First, some people like fast draft environments.
Next, many people really liked landfall, as it was a simple, yet powerful ability that had a lot of depth to it.
And speaking of power, the set had a ton of strong cards. People enjoyed that even though it eventually lead to one of the most degenerate decks Standard has ever seen when Worldwake and Scars were released (Cawblade).
Personally speaking, I think the flavor was really good, too. The only thing I didn't really like were the Eldrazi which changed the entire block structure and dropped so many mechanics that made Zendikar cool. I'd say Zendikar is in my top 5 favorite sets.
this.
i feel that vampires shouldn't be b/r with overcosted, useless abilities.
vampires should be cheap, low power/toughness creatures that work well together via inherent synergy.
the zendikar vampire deck practically built itself.
i'd really like it if wizards stop printing dumb vampires like stromkirk noble, olivia, and vampire interloper and went back to viscera seer, pulse tracker, vampire lacerator, and kalastria highborn...
although tbh falkenrath aristocrat, vampire nighthawk, and blood artist are all great vampires that fit thematically.
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Great flavour, lots of variety of decks, vamps were fun, and landfall was great (U/G Primeval Titan Hedron Crab mill at house games, ect.)
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To be fair, the topic is about the Zendikar Set, not the block as per MaRo's article.
I think Zendikar captured the exploration theme very well
Those are development problems, not design.
Though I didn't play zendikar (so can't comment on limited and such), looking at the block, there are many things I like:
Many fairly strong commons and uncommons.
Vampires (I find them more interesting than zombies for main black race, but both can exist together so no need to fight for space).
Sorin
Kicker
Landfall
Full art lands were nice, the "adventure world" was nice, the art was good, tribal stuff I'm neutral about and Lotus Cobra is evil.
In conclusion, I think Zendikar was a good block.
Things like popular and cool cards, strong mechanics like Kicker and Landfall, lots of cards that are powerful and see play in many formats, tribal themes and a very cool creative world environment are going to be much larger factors for a large portion of the player base.
As much as I would prefer to draft most other sets as opposed to Zen-Zen-Zen, there is a lot to like about the set and I'm rather fond of it.
Zendikar limited was great, I didn't have a chance to play it much when the set was out, but I played the crap out of it when they brought it back on mtgo before the GTC release. It is very fast, but there are ways to beat the forced R/B aggro deck, and there are a lot of other available deck options within the format. People compare current GTC to ZEN limited, and I think Zen was so much better.
Personally, I think Landfall was one of the best mechanics ever, and all the land shenanigans (instant speed harrow after no blocks are assigned to a woodcrasher) really helped make it a unique and fun set. I'm a sucker for land fetch though, so its partly personal preference.
Unfortunately, I think they followed it up with one of the worst blocks. SOM, just did nothing for me. I really don't like any of the artifact themed blocks.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
Compare it to ISD last year, it was sort of the same style of jump in new players. People "got" the flavor, and the top down design was so innovative for the time (we really hadn't seen anything like it before). It was the begining of something BIG, and you could feel it in the air. That and Shards was really a dog of a set and people were suffering from Fae/Jund hangovers... ZEN made us think that Standard would see changes.
My friends and I had B/R zombies foiled, that deck was pretty solid.
I built some decent G/R beats deck in Zendikar before scars, it went 2-2 at a couple FNMs even without BBE.
It was probably the best block we'll see for a while.
I had a UB control deck with Nighthawk and Gatekeeper on the sideboard, when the meta shifted to more aggro I brought them in main. Mindsculpter was so good. Pyromancer's Ascension was decent.
That being said I hated the eldrazi. They're ****ing yugioh cards. If I want to cast exodia, I'd play a different game.
+Allies - favourite tribe ever
+Fetchlands
+Manlands
+Eldrazi - i'm a fan of annihilator in EDH
+Felidar Sovereign - my win con for my casual deck
+Vampire Nighthawk/Gatekeeper of Malakir/Kalastria Highborn/Malakir Bloodwitch/Vampire Hexmage - awesome vampires all over the place
+Landfall - love Hedron Crab
Zendikar was just amazing.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
I love the flavor, I love the mechanics, I love the art, plus there's lots of really cool cards in zendikar, a lot of which are playable, much more so compared to other blocks.
Seriously, you can never be disappointed with a pack of zendikar. There will be at least one playable card in your pack guaranteed, whether it be a full art land, or a fetch land. Same goes for the other sets. Of course it has its garbage cards, but a lot of cards in zendikar are worth more than 50 cents. And honestly, I can't think of a card I would just absolutely hate to see as my rare, like some of the newer blocks have (see creepy doll).
I mean, even amulet of vigor is gaining some popularity.
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R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
This was a true fantasy inspired Magic set. It didn't have any extra tacked on settings until the Eldrazi arrived. It didn't need a Horror sub theme (although I love Innistrad), didn't need to be in a city, or a Japanese plane, or a plane of metal. It was just a true taste of fantasy. Something I've been starving for ever since the days of Dominaria/Otaria in 2000.
I did think that it degenerated the game mechanic vs flavor a bit too much, allowing for an excuse to bring power up even more, though these are my same problems with the original Mirrodin block.
Again though, that being said, that is my opinion, and most people actually really love ZEN
But as for why it's popular, I gotta go with the fetches, 5 rare lands played in every single format makes a lot of demand.