Let's say Player A is attacking into an empty board with a Runeclaw Bear. Player B has a Lightning Bolt, and wants to use it, but suspects that Player A has a Giant Growth. According to the rules, Player A must either cast the Growth or pass priority during the Declare Blockers step before Player B is forced to make his decision about casting the Bolt.
However, often the actual game interaction doesn't work like that. Typically, Player A says something like "Attack with the Bear" and that's it. If Player B casts his Bolt, Player A can respond with his Growth. However, if Player B says something like "take 2", then Player A has the knowledge that Player B either does not have the Bolt or that he is unwilling to use it on the 2/2 Bear. He can then use that information and say "After blockers are declared, cast Giant Growth on my Bear". While this is against the spirit of the rules and may be illegal, I don't see any way a Judge could sanction Player A for this. Player B also has the option of asking Player A if he passes priority, but that has it's own problem. If Player B suddenly wants to go through the priority passes when he was previously saying things like "take 2" that's a huge tell. If he insists on explicit priority passes each turn, that takes up a lot of time and would probably be seen as rules lawyering.
What is a clear, quick way for Player B to avoid this situation and manage the game so that Player A does not gain an undeserved advantage in situations like this?
i always say "no blocks" if i want to move past that step but don't want to go all the way to damage.
i recognize this can be awkward if you don't control any creatures, but you can say it ironically and get away with it. in my practice, it has worked well.
What is a clear, quick way for Player B to avoid this situation and manage the game so that Player A does not gain an undeserved advantage in situations like this?
Depending on situation I'll ask something along lines of 'do you have response to attack?' or like said above 'No block'. Something to aknowledge that the attack step is done or priority is being held, etc.
But I'm certainly no pro so I'm not sure if this is 100% correct verbiage
Seems to me that if he says "Takes 2", the defender is proposing a shortcut right to the damage stage.
The attacker could either accept that short cut (and not have a chance to cast giant growth), or back it up and say "after blockers, cast giant growth". Since something is on the stack, the defender could then cast lightning bolt, since the proposed short cut was rejected.
I usually say "ready for damage?" This conveys I (as the attacker) and passing priority after Declare Blockers. If my opponent says "yes", then I won't get to pump, but he won't get to bolt it either.
If my opponent wants to cast his bolt, then he can say "no" and put bolt on the stack, which in turn gives me priority to pump in response.
Attacker: I declare my attack phase, tap bear. I pass priority.
Defender: I pass priority.
Attacker: I declare the blockers phase you have no blockers so I pass priority.
At this point, unless the defender lightning bolts the bear, youre taking 2 damage. Alternatively, if the attacker wants to hit you for 5, it should work like this.
Attacker: I declare my attack step, tap bear. I pass priority.
Defender: I pass priority.
Attacker: I declare the blockers step. you have no blockers so I cast giant growth and pass priority.
Defender: Lightning bolt. You have priority, any responses?
Attacker: Pass priority.
Defender: Me too. Lightning bolt resolves. <Places lightning bolt in graveyard>
Attacker: <Places bear in the graveyard>. Giant Growth is still on the stack, I pass priority.
Defender: Pass Priority.
Attacker: Giant growth is countered for no target. <Places giant growth in the graveyard.> I pass priority.
Defender: Pass.
Attacker: It is now the combat damage step, you take no damage.
This is how you do it play by play. However you need to get your playgroup/opponent in the habit of specifically stating what step theyre in and who has priority. Usually an opponent will say something like, "I swing with bear", to which I say, "So its your beginning of combat step?".
Saying "Take 2?" is a question to his opponent to check and see if he wants to do anything before damage(and considered legal to do so). If he decides to play the Giant Growth in response to this question then priority gets passed back and the player can play his Lightning Bolt to kill the bear, however if the player ask the question and the other player simply responds with a "Yes." then damage has happened and no Giant Growth can be played. These are the rules and nothing about what is occurring is against those rules or the spirit of the game.
If you want to ban powerful cards, why not Islands? They have been proven to be fairly unfair in most cases.
The worst turn 1 play you can face down is Draw, play basic Island and say, "go"
One good way is to say "Any effects?" and hold your pen. That way the attacker will think you have nothing, and you can still Lightning Bolt after he say no.
This is the best way to do it. You're not giving much away and you can still Bolt the bear before damage if your opponent doesn't do anything.
Attacker: I declare my attack phase, tap bear. I pass priority.
Defender: I pass priority.
Attacker: I declare the blockers phase you have no blockers so I pass priority.
At this point, unless the defender lightning bolts the bear, youre taking 2 damage. Alternatively, if the attacker wants to hit you for 5, it should work like this.
Attacker: I declare my attack step, tap bear. I pass priority.
Defender: I pass priority.
Attacker: I declare the blockers step. you have no blockers so I cast giant growth and pass priority.
Defender: Lightning bolt. You have priority, any responses?
Attacker: Pass priority.
Defender: Me too. Lightning bolt resolves. <Places lightning bolt in graveyard>
Attacker: <Places bear in the graveyard>. Giant Growth is still on the stack, I pass priority.
Defender: Pass Priority.
Attacker: Giant growth is countered for no target. <Places giant growth in the graveyard.> I pass priority.
Defender: Pass.
Attacker: It is now the combat damage step, you take no damage.
This is how you do it play by play. However you need to get your playgroup/opponent in the habit of specifically stating what step theyre in and who has priority. Usually an opponent will say something like, "I swing with bear", to which I say, "So its your beginning of combat step?".
Rules lawyer, ho!!
Ugh. I mean, do whatever you want -- but shortcutting isn't a hard concept to grasp and work with. It's one thing if you're talking about a player who will just auto-rush through steps without asking the opponent ("I swing with my bear, you take 2 since you have no blockers, and then in my postcombat...") -- but if someone is shortcutting properly, it shouldn't be a problem.
- I swing with my bear, and cast giant growth.
- I play lightning bolt in response.
vs
Attacker: I declare my attack step, tap bear. I pass priority.
Defender: I pass priority.
Attacker: I declare the blockers step. you have no blockers so I cast giant growth and pass priority.
Defender: Lightning bolt. You have priority, any responses?
Attacker: Pass priority.
Defender: Me too. Lightning bolt resolves. <Places lightning bolt in graveyard>
Attacker: <Places bear in the graveyard>. Giant Growth is still on the stack, I pass priority.
Defender: Pass Priority.
Attacker: Giant growth is countered for no target. <Places giant growth in the graveyard.> I pass priority.
Defender: Pass.
Attacker: It is now the combat damage step, you take no damage.
Yeesh.
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However, often the actual game interaction doesn't work like that. Typically, Player A says something like "Attack with the Bear" and that's it. If Player B casts his Bolt, Player A can respond with his Growth. However, if Player B says something like "take 2", then Player A has the knowledge that Player B either does not have the Bolt or that he is unwilling to use it on the 2/2 Bear. He can then use that information and say "After blockers are declared, cast Giant Growth on my Bear". While this is against the spirit of the rules and may be illegal, I don't see any way a Judge could sanction Player A for this. Player B also has the option of asking Player A if he passes priority, but that has it's own problem. If Player B suddenly wants to go through the priority passes when he was previously saying things like "take 2" that's a huge tell. If he insists on explicit priority passes each turn, that takes up a lot of time and would probably be seen as rules lawyering.
What is a clear, quick way for Player B to avoid this situation and manage the game so that Player A does not gain an undeserved advantage in situations like this?
i recognize this can be awkward if you don't control any creatures, but you can say it ironically and get away with it. in my practice, it has worked well.
Depending on situation I'll ask something along lines of 'do you have response to attack?' or like said above 'No block'. Something to aknowledge that the attack step is done or priority is being held, etc.
But I'm certainly no pro so I'm not sure if this is 100% correct verbiage
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The attacker could either accept that short cut (and not have a chance to cast giant growth), or back it up and say "after blockers, cast giant growth". Since something is on the stack, the defender could then cast lightning bolt, since the proposed short cut was rejected.
If my opponent wants to cast his bolt, then he can say "no" and put bolt on the stack, which in turn gives me priority to pump in response.
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Defender: I pass priority.
Attacker: I declare the blockers phase you have no blockers so I pass priority.
At this point, unless the defender lightning bolts the bear, youre taking 2 damage. Alternatively, if the attacker wants to hit you for 5, it should work like this.
Attacker: I declare my attack step, tap bear. I pass priority.
Defender: I pass priority.
Attacker: I declare the blockers step. you have no blockers so I cast giant growth and pass priority.
Defender: Lightning bolt. You have priority, any responses?
Attacker: Pass priority.
Defender: Me too. Lightning bolt resolves. <Places lightning bolt in graveyard>
Attacker: <Places bear in the graveyard>. Giant Growth is still on the stack, I pass priority.
Defender: Pass Priority.
Attacker: Giant growth is countered for no target. <Places giant growth in the graveyard.> I pass priority.
Defender: Pass.
Attacker: It is now the combat damage step, you take no damage.
This is how you do it play by play. However you need to get your playgroup/opponent in the habit of specifically stating what step theyre in and who has priority. Usually an opponent will say something like, "I swing with bear", to which I say, "So its your beginning of combat step?".
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Player A casts giant growth on bear
Player B casts lightning bolt on bear
Bolt resolves, bear is 2/-1, bear dies as SBA?
BaconoftheArk speaks the truth:
Not true. If the opponent is at five life, giant growthing a bear can be a fine play.
This is the best way to do it. You're not giving much away and you can still Bolt the bear before damage if your opponent doesn't do anything.
Rules lawyer, ho!!
Ugh. I mean, do whatever you want -- but shortcutting isn't a hard concept to grasp and work with. It's one thing if you're talking about a player who will just auto-rush through steps without asking the opponent ("I swing with my bear, you take 2 since you have no blockers, and then in my postcombat...") -- but if someone is shortcutting properly, it shouldn't be a problem.
- I swing with my bear, and cast giant growth.
- I play lightning bolt in response.
vs
Attacker: I declare my attack step, tap bear. I pass priority.
Defender: I pass priority.
Attacker: I declare the blockers step. you have no blockers so I cast giant growth and pass priority.
Defender: Lightning bolt. You have priority, any responses?
Attacker: Pass priority.
Defender: Me too. Lightning bolt resolves. <Places lightning bolt in graveyard>
Attacker: <Places bear in the graveyard>. Giant Growth is still on the stack, I pass priority.
Defender: Pass Priority.
Attacker: Giant growth is countered for no target. <Places giant growth in the graveyard.> I pass priority.
Defender: Pass.
Attacker: It is now the combat damage step, you take no damage.
Yeesh.