For the people that have never Top 8ed a PTQ, won a Grand Prix trial or placed in a major event (States, Regionals, etc.) Why? What is holding you back from doing well? For the most part in constructed, I understand it is feasible that the price of cards have kept you from being a major contender, however what about a limited format? Surely, you have opened packs that contained great cards or crappy cards. I am curious as to what the factors are that are preventing a player from ascending to the next level of play or at least entering a status that allows their level of play to fund the hobby. Is it the overall play skill of the players around you? I am having a hard time understanding people that have played for 5+ years that have not placed significantly well in a major event. Is it the intimidation factor of having to play in front of dozens, if not hundreds of people judging every card and mistake you might make? Or is it the people you surround yourself with at the local game store? Is the play terrible enough that it potentially makes you a worse player, or you have no one around that is better than you to help your playing ability? I am aware that some areas the level of gaming is below average and you really do not get a chance to improve, but the question is, do you want to improve? Do you want to take the next step? If so, then do it. MTG has been around for damn near 20 years, across the world and available in different mediums. Everyone has the opportunity to improve and get better. Find the stores that have better players, if it is farther and way and money for gas is an issue, than go once a month. Surround yourself with better players to get better. Now with Starcitygames.com and TCGplayer.com running their own high level events, you have even more chances to improve your game. You can’t afford constructed? Play limited until you win the cards/product/cash/credit you need. Don’t like limited? Find a group of players and share the pool of cards to create constructed decks.
It works, believe me. I started playing MTG in between Urza’s Destiny and Mercadian Masques. One major problem and positive aspect for me was that I lived in the Northeast US. The game stores I had access to probably were the best you could ask for at least for the ability to get better, TOGIT (the Only Game in Town), Neutral Ground and Your Move Games, homes of multiple PT/Nationals/GP winners. I had no choice but to get better in order to have fun playing because no one wants to lose every single time. If you are surrounded by players of higher play skill, you inherit that play skill and learn how to make it your own. Play, play everywhere you can. Go to a GP, go to Gen Con/Origins, play in these events and make contact with better players and don’t be afraid to just, you know PLAY BETTER.
For the people that have never Top 8ed a PTQ, won a Grand Prix trial or placed in a major event (States, Regionals, etc.) Why? What is holding you back from doing well? For the most part in constructed, I understand it is feasible that the price of cards have kept you from being a major contender, however what about a limited format?
Not everyone likes limited formats- I hate them and since I play for fun I am not about to play a format I dislike.
Don’t like limited? Find a group of players and share the pool of cards to create constructed decks.
Way easier said than done. Especially when a meta game is weighted so heavily in favor of one deck (as was mildly the case earlier in the season), most players want the same chase cards, so the pool (if that is even possible to pull together) will dry up quickly.
Heck, I hate Standard due to the expense of keeping up with it. I play Modern and many places in the U.S. it is difficult or impossible to find a regular game in the city, so choosing a shop with the best players is a luxury they do not have. I also am biologically not armed with the attention span and focus needed for larger tournaments, where distractions abound. I am not saying that I could not work hard to overcome this for the length of a tournament, but the time and energy required is untenable for me at this point.
All and all nothing that you said about playing better people and playing a lot is wrong, but it vastly over simplifies the situation because you have a somewhat narrow personal perspective.
That said, I do not see people complaining that they "can't win" enough. They may feel that a metagame is weighted in favor of a certain overbearing deck (or card for that matter), or they may complain about the cost, but I have found that most people are pretty honest about their play skill. Complaining about a format being too hard is not something I see much of.
There is also the fact that not all of us care to play at that level of competition.
There is also the fact that only 8 people can make top 8, so it may be mathematically impossible for all players who have played for 5+ years to have "Top 8ed a PTQ, won a Grand Prix trial or placed in a major event (States, Regionals, etc.)". Add in the exceptional skill and grinding time that gives pro players such an advantage, and it seems like your simplification is just not considering all the possible reasons
Lastly, please use paragraph breaks liberally in the future, and the size of that type face is annoying.
I also only ever participated in one standard tournament, where I took one of my casual deck, removed all non-standard cards and replaced em with singles I could trade for.
I would love to play sealed in a higher stakes tourney, as i feel its my best format. When it comes down to raw deckbuilding skills and card evaluation i do well. took 4th at the prerelease, and tonight we did sealed and i walked out without losing a single game, and i think the deck i had could have easily kept going for more than 4 rounds.
Unfortunately travel isnt cheap, and real life gets in the way. I do plan to hit some scg opens sometime within 3-6 months so we will see what happens.
The fact that I only want to play Legacy events and I am only willing to travel up to an hour means I've never played a GPT. If there's ever a Legacy GP in the area, I'll have a more meaningful explanation on why I didn't make the top 8.
The biggest tournaments I've played in were two SCG Legacy Opens. I finished 20th in one and top 8 in the other.
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
For the most part I am referring to players that want to and do play competitively. So if it has no affect on you, so be it. Just like not everyone wants to play big tournaments, not everyone wants to play casual either. Commander for one, does not interest me at all, however a tournament for P9, I am all for.
For me, it's a combination of budget issues and not being able to even travel to wherever these bigger tournaments are. I'm a poor college student who relies entirely on public transportation to get around, and none of my other friends express an interest in carpooling, so...
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Quote from Head Judge at a tournament »
Please do not have food at the tables. We do not need a messy play area. No, you can not use a Sierra Mist-ic to fetch a Batterspill.
I don't care to be a "major contender." Magic is a hobby. I have a job, relationships, etc. I already spend enough time with magic. Also, I live in your area.
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
In some ways, it's like asking why someone's literacy skills are so poor. I don't understand why some people seem unable to make a cohesive concise point in their posts, choosing to abandon most conventions of style or grammar to inflict rambling massive walls of text whose purpose and motivations are unclear.
I mean, English has been around for damn near 1000 years in its current form, on several continents and in formats both printed and digital. Can't afford books? There are libraries in most first and second world communities. It works, I assure you. Read a book, a newspaper, stay awake in class for a change, the world is full of limitless possibilities...
Sigh, on a non-satirical note, listen kid: Some people play to have fun, and don't care to invest time or effort to become a power gamer. For a very long time, I resisted playing in Modern and Legacy solely because of the kind of people that I'd be playing with. Your rambling post came off to them just like my joke about English did to you. Me personally, I prefer to play the game well, but you're the one who posted a wall of text insult disguised as being confused why people aren't more like you.
It has a huge barrier to entry in cost( yes, even limited ), a huge luck factor, low skill requirements, low payouts, infrequent events or long travel times, and the tournaments take forever( I don't want to spend 10 hours playing in a tournament ).
In some ways, it's like asking why someone's literacy skills are so poor. I don't understand why some people seem unable to make a cohesive concise point in their posts, choosing to abandon most conventions of style or grammar to inflict rambling massive walls of text whose purpose and motivations are unclear.
I mean, English has been around for damn near 1000 years in its current form, on several continents and in formats both printed and digital. Can't afford books? There are libraries in most first and second world communities. It works, I assure you. Read a book, a newspaper, stay awake in class for a change, the world is full of limitless possibilities...
Sigh, on a non-satirical note, listen kid: Some people play to have fun, and don't care to invest time or effort to become a power gamer. For a very long time, I resisted playing in Modern and Legacy solely because of the kind of people that I'd be playing with. Your rambling post came off to them just like my joke about English did to you. Me personally, I prefer to play the game well, but you're the one who posted a wall of text insult disguised as being confused why people aren't more like you.
^This and everything about this.
Also, anyone who feels the need to complain about people not placing well after playing forever probably has not done all that well themselves. I SERIOUSLY doubt this gentleman has done anywhere near good enough in high level magic to be able to post something like that. I am confident that most seasoned pros know about MTG salvation and the kind of community it has and seriously doubt they would post this with any honest intentions if they ever would do such a thing. This seems very troll-ish to me.
Regardless, calling everyone bad and asking why they are so bad is terrible form in any public forum, digital or otherwise.
Me personally, I prefer to play the game well, but you're the one who posted a wall of text insult disguised as being confused why people aren't more like you.
Quote from Carthage »
I don't take competitive magic seriously.
It has a huge barrier to entry in cost( yes, even limited ), a huge luck factor, low skill requirements, low payouts, infrequent events or long travel times, and the tournaments take forever( I don't want to spend 10 hours playing in a tournament ).
I find your post to be pompous and pathetic.
Competitive Format Play is for kids in their teens to late twenties who have low paying jobs and/or less commitments and interests in their life. It is more "work" oriented than "fun" oriented.
I've been collecting and playing since 1993. I play pretty competitively and love competition. I tried back in the 1st Ravnica to want to play competitive Standard. In the end it was the time requirement and the players in this setting (Stinky, overly nerd-aggressive, and lack of social skills) drove me to make a Cube to play Magic.
During this time, I lived and breathed Magic, reading articles forums, deck testing with a team of guys already pros in my area to get a better edge.
I did pretty well, but I just looked at the amount of time it took to really understand the CONSTANTLY CHANGING GAME, i.e. each set changes decks, as well as the money investment.
A few of the guys in my group could net a gross sum of $10,000-$15,000 a year in cards and prizes when playing Legacy, Standard, and (at the time) Extended. However, after subtracting costs for travel (gas, food, lodge, etc), buying and trading cards, and the amount of time to play test and learn the decks and new cards (Think of it as a full time 40-50hours a week job, where you still need to play in the tournaments and hope for a pay out), the "profits" would be anywhere from $500-$3000, sometimes more or less.
Simple math can show that even a LOW PAY job of $10 an hour makes far more money (profit wise) in one year at 40 hours a week, and affords time to play and collect on the side, and pay for you rent/mortgage and payments on your car, and take your significant other out. Now factor in someone who makes $30 an hour, who plays competitively, but just does not have the time to allocate on all of this research to play at such a high level in a format and drive out to competitions each weekend and spend so much time on it (which is why I only cube and play limited!). The amount of time to perfect my knowledge of a format and acquire the best cards on an hourly rate at what profits I can expect DOES NOT even come close to my already moderate $30 an hour price tag.
I play this game for fun and as a hobby (among other interests I have), and the competitive aspect is a joke. You're better off playing Poker if you truly desire to be "the best" AND get large payouts... lol.
There are only so many hours in a day and in a week/month/year. Make the most of it
Ladies and gentlemen, I present the Levine Trench. The accompanying article (scroll all the way to the bottom, before the comments) explains what it's about.
Also, notice how TS used "Pro Tour Qualifier" and "Grand Prix Trial", instead of "Pro Tour" or "Grand Prix".
For the most part I am referring to players that want to and do play competitively. So if it has no affect on you, so be it. Just like not everyone wants to play big tournaments, not everyone wants to play casual either. Commander for one, does not interest me at all, however a tournament for P9, I am all for.
Even allowing for that, your expectations of potential placement are not possible, given the high number of players you are refering to and the low number of "high level" tournaments.
It works, believe me. I started playing MTG in between Urza’s Destiny and Mercadian Masques. One major problem and positive aspect for me was that I lived in the Northeast US. The game stores I had access to probably were the best you could ask for at least for the ability to get better, TOGIT (the Only Game in Town), Neutral Ground and Your Move Games, homes of multiple PT/Nationals/GP winners. I had no choice but to get better in order to have fun playing because no one wants to lose every single time. If you are surrounded by players of higher play skill, you inherit that play skill and learn how to make it your own. Play, play everywhere you can. Go to a GP, go to Gen Con/Origins, play in these events and make contact with better players and don’t be afraid to just, you know PLAY BETTER.
Way easier said than done. Especially when a meta game is weighted so heavily in favor of one deck (as was mildly the case earlier in the season), most players want the same chase cards, so the pool (if that is even possible to pull together) will dry up quickly.
Heck, I hate Standard due to the expense of keeping up with it. I play Modern and many places in the U.S. it is difficult or impossible to find a regular game in the city, so choosing a shop with the best players is a luxury they do not have. I also am biologically not armed with the attention span and focus needed for larger tournaments, where distractions abound. I am not saying that I could not work hard to overcome this for the length of a tournament, but the time and energy required is untenable for me at this point.
All and all nothing that you said about playing better people and playing a lot is wrong, but it vastly over simplifies the situation because you have a somewhat narrow personal perspective.
That said, I do not see people complaining that they "can't win" enough. They may feel that a metagame is weighted in favor of a certain overbearing deck (or card for that matter), or they may complain about the cost, but I have found that most people are pretty honest about their play skill. Complaining about a format being too hard is not something I see much of.
There is also the fact that not all of us care to play at that level of competition.
There is also the fact that only 8 people can make top 8, so it may be mathematically impossible for all players who have played for 5+ years to have "Top 8ed a PTQ, won a Grand Prix trial or placed in a major event (States, Regionals, etc.)". Add in the exceptional skill and grinding time that gives pro players such an advantage, and it seems like your simplification is just not considering all the possible reasons
Lastly, please use paragraph breaks liberally in the future, and the size of that type face is annoying.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I also only ever participated in one standard tournament, where I took one of my casual deck, removed all non-standard cards and replaced em with singles I could trade for.
I have no interest in competitive magic.
Unfortunately travel isnt cheap, and real life gets in the way. I do plan to hit some scg opens sometime within 3-6 months so we will see what happens.
The biggest tournaments I've played in were two SCG Legacy Opens. I finished 20th in one and top 8 in the other.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingModern: B/W Tokens
I am a DCI rules advisor.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=4832736
Trading 10 full art zen basics for 8 of yours!
I want
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
In some ways, it's like asking why someone's literacy skills are so poor. I don't understand why some people seem unable to make a cohesive concise point in their posts, choosing to abandon most conventions of style or grammar to inflict rambling massive walls of text whose purpose and motivations are unclear.
I mean, English has been around for damn near 1000 years in its current form, on several continents and in formats both printed and digital. Can't afford books? There are libraries in most first and second world communities. It works, I assure you. Read a book, a newspaper, stay awake in class for a change, the world is full of limitless possibilities...
Sigh, on a non-satirical note, listen kid: Some people play to have fun, and don't care to invest time or effort to become a power gamer. For a very long time, I resisted playing in Modern and Legacy solely because of the kind of people that I'd be playing with. Your rambling post came off to them just like my joke about English did to you. Me personally, I prefer to play the game well, but you're the one who posted a wall of text insult disguised as being confused why people aren't more like you.
It has a huge barrier to entry in cost( yes, even limited ), a huge luck factor, low skill requirements, low payouts, infrequent events or long travel times, and the tournaments take forever( I don't want to spend 10 hours playing in a tournament ).
I find your post to be pompous and pathetic.
^This and everything about this.
Also, anyone who feels the need to complain about people not placing well after playing forever probably has not done all that well themselves. I SERIOUSLY doubt this gentleman has done anywhere near good enough in high level magic to be able to post something like that. I am confident that most seasoned pros know about MTG salvation and the kind of community it has and seriously doubt they would post this with any honest intentions if they ever would do such a thing. This seems very troll-ish to me.
Regardless, calling everyone bad and asking why they are so bad is terrible form in any public forum, digital or otherwise.
Standard - N/A
Modern - Infect, Scapeshift
Legacy - TES, High Tide
Competitive Format Play is for kids in their teens to late twenties who have low paying jobs and/or less commitments and interests in their life. It is more "work" oriented than "fun" oriented.
I've been collecting and playing since 1993. I play pretty competitively and love competition. I tried back in the 1st Ravnica to want to play competitive Standard. In the end it was the time requirement and the players in this setting (Stinky, overly nerd-aggressive, and lack of social skills) drove me to make a Cube to play Magic.
During this time, I lived and breathed Magic, reading articles forums, deck testing with a team of guys already pros in my area to get a better edge.
I did pretty well, but I just looked at the amount of time it took to really understand the CONSTANTLY CHANGING GAME, i.e. each set changes decks, as well as the money investment.
A few of the guys in my group could net a gross sum of $10,000-$15,000 a year in cards and prizes when playing Legacy, Standard, and (at the time) Extended. However, after subtracting costs for travel (gas, food, lodge, etc), buying and trading cards, and the amount of time to play test and learn the decks and new cards (Think of it as a full time 40-50hours a week job, where you still need to play in the tournaments and hope for a pay out), the "profits" would be anywhere from $500-$3000, sometimes more or less.
Simple math can show that even a LOW PAY job of $10 an hour makes far more money (profit wise) in one year at 40 hours a week, and affords time to play and collect on the side, and pay for you rent/mortgage and payments on your car, and take your significant other out. Now factor in someone who makes $30 an hour, who plays competitively, but just does not have the time to allocate on all of this research to play at such a high level in a format and drive out to competitions each weekend and spend so much time on it (which is why I only cube and play limited!). The amount of time to perfect my knowledge of a format and acquire the best cards on an hourly rate at what profits I can expect DOES NOT even come close to my already moderate $30 an hour price tag.
I play this game for fun and as a hobby (among other interests I have), and the competitive aspect is a joke. You're better off playing Poker if you truly desire to be "the best" AND get large payouts... lol.
There are only so many hours in a day and in a week/month/year. Make the most of it
Cube on Cubetutor
Come trade with Puca Trade!, the best place to get those hard to get cards no one else will trade!
if it's not a troll, dude... don't treat people like that, it's not nice
Also, notice how TS used "Pro Tour Qualifier" and "Grand Prix Trial", instead of "Pro Tour" or "Grand Prix".
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!