You know how it is, you think of a deck concept, build it on paper, and then look to see how much it would take to build it and are shocked at the price of some of the cards. There are obvious cards, like Goyf, Bob, Force of Will...stuff like that, but then there are cards that you have never seen on a constructed list (or at least not for a long time), and you wonder why they are so expensive.
The three main reasons are usually one or both of these:
1) The set was not opened very widely. This can be because of it being a small set, or because it was unpopular, or a combination of the two.
2) The card is actually used in a semi-popular deck, but in a format you are not very familiar with.
3) It is inextricably popular with casual players to a larger extent that is often obvious.
I remember when I was just getting in to EDH I was very surprised at how expensive things like Doubling Cube, and Austere Command were, and then realized how strongly the casual format market can drive up prices.
The card that is really getting me right now is Glen Elendra Archmage. It is a neat card, but I have never seen it show up on many competitive deck lists. I do not follow Legacy or Vintage, but it does not seem like the kind of card that would make waves there, so I can only suspect it's near $10 price is due to not being opened much. That said, even though Eventide was a smaller set it seems like it was pretty popular (though I was taking a break from the game at the time).
Anyone have any thoughts on Glen Elendra price? Any other cards that you question?
See's play in some legacy lists too as well as casual with Riptide Laboratory.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Perhaps EDH's popularity has given some worth to bad cards, or perhaps collectors like to collect them for some reason (like collect all dragons).
I think practically everything-in-magics' price is up these days, due to the influx of new players since m10+ and commander were popularized.
I was recently going through my collection, with intention of selling in bulk, and used this price history site to check up on current values. It seemed to me like most of the crap rares I checked from before alara had all jumped to $1 status, and lots and lots of cheap cards simply doubled in price after Reborn. A good sized chunk of my collection was composed of budget commander staples, as agreed upon from 2-3 years ago. I think the increased price on a lot of these is a testament to how much commander is encroaching on 60 card casual, as the kitchen table format de jur.
Old Fart story: Sorry, this is not a direct response to your question, but even now there might be a few cards which the casuals like or they are good for casual formats like EDH, hence the high price.
Anyway, I opened a an old price guide out of curiosity or nostalgia. The most expensive standard card of the time (then Type II) was Balduvian Horde. Terrible card, no competitive deck played it, yet it was the most expensive card. I guess Timmies had a far bigger impact on card prices then.
Haha Balduvian Horde. The price was so high on that card due to out of control speculation, not Timmies. It was seen as the second coming of Juzam Djinn.
I feel this way about standard cards a lot. For a while, there was no competitive deck that used Woodland Cemetery or Clifftop Retreat, but no one would trade them to me for under 8$ in trade.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
I would like to point out another reason for high card prices apart from competitive playability: collectibility. There are many cards that collectors have chased to the point of scarcity with no intention of playing them.
Some examples are:
Alpha Dwarven Demolition Team
Several Alpha rares such as the Laces and Fungusaur
Foil Little Girl
Foil Richard Garfield
French Delay
Foreign Revised Serendib Efreet
Numerous misprints
&c.
The original elder dragon legends are unplayable but still command a small premium just because they are awesome.
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The Collection:
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
I would like to point out another reason for high card prices apart from competitive playability: collectibility. There are many cards that collectors have chased to the point of scarcity with no intention of playing them.
Some examples are:
Alpha Dwarven Demolition Team
Several Alpha rares such as the Laces and Fungusaur
Foil Little Girl
Foil Richard Garfield
French Delay
Foreign Revised Serendib Efreet
Numerous misprints
&c.
The original elder dragon legends are unplayable but still command a small premium just because they are awesome.
Glen Elendra sees play in Modern. Or at least I've seen it a bunch when I playtest modern on 'trice x)
Aside from rogue Melira builds and rogue blink decks (what I need it for), I have never seen it used- and I have never seen it on a deck that has made t8 in anything. It seems like casual would have a bigger effect on the price than modern.
Glen Elendra is one of those "EDH cards." Peacekeeper and Death Baron are both the same way, casual bombs, unplayable in competitive games
Really? I would think it is just too fragile for EDH, at least in experience. Death Baron too baffles me, but then again I
need two more so perhaps I should not be too surprised.
It was good enough to be played in the sideboard of the 2008 standard's World Champion deck.
I am not saying that it is bad, I really like the card, but I just have not seen them used recently outside of casual. Legacy is impossible to find locally so I do not follow it at all, so it could be more commonly played than I think.
Really? I would think it is just too fragile for EDH, at least in experience.
GEA oftens ends up stopping more than two spells, because people are less likely to run their cards into an on-board counterspell. Even if she eats a Nekrataal and then counters some throw-away spell, she often slows a game down enough for a Blue player to start taking over the table.
Being a creature is a bonus, because it's easier to reuse creatures than spells. She's also easier to keep mana open for: initial investment is 3UU and a further U to keep open every turn - much better than the other creature-based counterspells like Venser, Mystic Snake, and Voidmage Prodigy. Being a wizard doesn't hurt either, since she can be bounced with Riptide Lab, tapped by Azami to draw a card, etc.
I always wondered why Idyllic tutor has such a high value.
Lack of dedicated enchantment tutors. You gotta have tutors in EDH, and I'm pretty sure everyone's at least met that one player with their casual janky convoluted Rube Goldberg enchantment lock deck, so cards that find enchantments are in demand, and if you're not running Black then your options are very limited.
Lack of dedicated enchantment tutors. You gotta have tutors in EDH, and I'm pretty sure everyone's at least met that one player with their casual janky convoluted Rube Goldberg enchantment lock deck, so cards that find enchantments are in demand, and if you're not running Black then your options are very limited.
True enough, and quality tutors are always sought out by the casual set. I have always been surprised that the multi-color tutor was not more expensive, myself, though GSZ works better in EDH.
The three main reasons are usually one or both of these:
1) The set was not opened very widely. This can be because of it being a small set, or because it was unpopular, or a combination of the two.
2) The card is actually used in a semi-popular deck, but in a format you are not very familiar with.
3) It is inextricably popular with casual players to a larger extent that is often obvious.
I remember when I was just getting in to EDH I was very surprised at how expensive things like Doubling Cube, and Austere Command were, and then realized how strongly the casual format market can drive up prices.
The card that is really getting me right now is Glen Elendra Archmage. It is a neat card, but I have never seen it show up on many competitive deck lists. I do not follow Legacy or Vintage, but it does not seem like the kind of card that would make waves there, so I can only suspect it's near $10 price is due to not being opened much. That said, even though Eventide was a smaller set it seems like it was pretty popular (though I was taking a break from the game at the time).
Anyone have any thoughts on Glen Elendra price? Any other cards that you question?
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Sales Thread
Peacekeeper and Death Baron are both the same way, casual bombs, unplayable in competitive games
I think practically everything-in-magics' price is up these days, due to the influx of new players since m10+ and commander were popularized.
I was recently going through my collection, with intention of selling in bulk, and used this price history site to check up on current values. It seemed to me like most of the crap rares I checked from before alara had all jumped to $1 status, and lots and lots of cheap cards simply doubled in price after Reborn. A good sized chunk of my collection was composed of budget commander staples, as agreed upon from 2-3 years ago. I think the increased price on a lot of these is a testament to how much commander is encroaching on 60 card casual, as the kitchen table format de jur.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Haha Balduvian Horde. The price was so high on that card due to out of control speculation, not Timmies. It was seen as the second coming of Juzam Djinn.
Legacy
Control
Miracles
All flavors of Stoneblade
Aggro
Grixis Delver
UR Delver
Burn
Combo
Dredge
TES/ANT
UR & UB Reanimator
Belcher
case in point, Peacekeeper has seen play in SCG Legacy Opens in the past.
Peacekeeper is not even close to unplayable. Its not a legacy staple, but has seen definite sideboard play.
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
I guess it is fairly obvious why it is so much, it is the name of the set, it makes things indestructible (so Timmy!) and it is an angel.
Also Soldiers in general.... Reasonably good Solider cards are all about $1-2 which doesn't seem like a lot until you try to build a solider deck.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Some examples are:
Alpha Dwarven Demolition Team
Several Alpha rares such as the Laces and Fungusaur
Foil Little Girl
Foil Richard Garfield
French Delay
Foreign Revised Serendib Efreet
Numerous misprints
&c.
The original elder dragon legends are unplayable but still command a small premium just because they are awesome.
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
Took me a while to figure out delay.
Interesting. Is this a fairly common deck?
Really? I would think it is just too fragile for EDH, at least in experience. Death Baron too baffles me, but then again I
need two more so perhaps I should not be too surprised.
I am not saying that it is bad, I really like the card, but I just have not seen them used recently outside of casual. Legacy is impossible to find locally so I do not follow it at all, so it could be more commonly played than I think.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
GEA oftens ends up stopping more than two spells, because people are less likely to run their cards into an on-board counterspell. Even if she eats a Nekrataal and then counters some throw-away spell, she often slows a game down enough for a Blue player to start taking over the table.
Being a creature is a bonus, because it's easier to reuse creatures than spells. She's also easier to keep mana open for: initial investment is 3UU and a further U to keep open every turn - much better than the other creature-based counterspells like Venser, Mystic Snake, and Voidmage Prodigy. Being a wizard doesn't hurt either, since she can be bounced with Riptide Lab, tapped by Azami to draw a card, etc.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
special thanks to sentimentgx4 for the sig
Pourquoi?
Lack of dedicated enchantment tutors. You gotta have tutors in EDH, and I'm pretty sure everyone's at least met that one player with their casual janky convoluted Rube Goldberg enchantment lock deck, so cards that find enchantments are in demand, and if you're not running Black then your options are very limited.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!