All of the rares that each person drafts are collected at the end and then redrafted, starting with the 1st place finisher until last place with each taking one, repeating until all rares are drafted.
It's good because it rewards skill rather than just opening valuable rares and coming in last place and still basically winning.
Rare redraft is stupid, and it's actually not permitted in sanctioned events, so either the store is ignoring DCI policy (sketchy), or the event is sanctioned (pointless). I never draft with rare redraft. Skill wins you prizes, that should be enough.
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"A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."
- Willy Wonka
The Quote function doesn't work for me on this forum. Sorry for any confusion created.
Playing with friends, I think re-drafting the rares is nice. Nobody wants to put up extra packs for prize support, so we re-draft the rares at the end. People who play well get rewarded for it, and everybody goes home with something.
At a store I don't think it's really appropriate, and as someone above mentioned, it isn't even allowed in a DCI-sanctioned event. FNM is DCI-sanctioned, so if the shop is talking about doing this as part of their normal FNM process they're violating DCI rules.
All of that said, my playgroup has started each bringing prizes from home to contribute to the prize pool. Old packs, extra rares, whatever. That way there's prize support without having to redraft, or when we do things like cube that don't have "rares" to redraft.
It is awful only if you are an awful drafter. I'd try it.
Not everyone can draft well. Letting people keep their rare's let people who aren't very good go home happy, while people who are good can draft well and try and win packs.
Everyone wins. Unless your winner prize packs suck.
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Modern - RUG Delver RUG - Splinter Twin UR - Jund BRG
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
Not everyone can draft well. Letting people keep their rare's let people who aren't very good go home happy, while people who are good can draft well and try and win packs.
Everyone wins. Unless your winner prize packs suck.
That is the most important point. Rare redrafting is stupid because it discourages players from coming back to the store if they are bad or not as seasoned as other players. Any LGS worth a damn will understand that a customer's money is good regardless of their skill level.
Part of this though is that some people grab the "best cards" or rare draft through the entire process, then act surprised when they don't grow as a Limited player. This at least lets people put value on things that will make their deck GOOD and playable rather than just chase cards that will be good in a rare binder.
For team drafts and unsanctioned drafting, I think rare-redrafting is a lovely way to create cost-free prize support.
However, in sanctioned events, or even when it's a scheduled and planned event held by a store (sanctioned or no), I think it's a horrible thing to do, unless you're offering that draft at a significantly reduced price- for instance, an average draft at a store is going to cost $15 for packs and prize support. Unless you knock that down to $10 or less, it just seems to be even further penalizing the players you'd least want to... the new players.
Almost every store I've seen always runs a top-heavy prize support scheme, leading to the top four frequently walking off with significant portions of a box when they win. It seems pretty screwed up to want to heap even more on top of that, unless you've an exceptionally cutthroat competitive playerbase that you have no fear of evaporating on you.
Typically, I enjoy playing draft at my local stores as it's pretty much the most cost and time efficient way for me to enjoy the game. Besides the occasional times I'll boot up and play MTGO, the extent of my Magic playing is a weekly draft and dropping in on the Commander league, should I have the time that week.
With drafts, I can consistently be "in the hunt", for only $15 a week, and that's assuming I never open better than bulk rares, and never, ever place in prizes. The numbers tend to look even better to me when you consider that just about any constructed event a store will have will come along with at least a minimum $5 entry fee for prize support.
This ends up giving me 3 booster packs ($3.99 MSRP) to open at the cost of $10, and not only that... I get to pick the best contents for me out of multiple packs! Sometimes that means bearing down and building the absolute best deck I can out of the provided cards. Sometimes, that means skipping a marginal pick for a cards I'd like for my EDH decks, my collection, or even something a friend was looking for. Sometimes it means just picking up bulk rares because they look like fun and are coming late late in the packs, or even just unashamedly rare drafting because I know the math works out well for me and I can pay for or profit from the draft just during the drafting portion, and any packs won after that are gravy.
I do realize that if I played more frequently, I'd very much want redrafting to be a thing, because it minimizes the risk of a "critical failure"- that situation where you draft a deck that holds absolutely no value after the draft, and the prize support from whatever venue you're playing isn't enough to keep you rolling. It's the same reason why anyone trying to grind and go infinite on MTGO is going to cross over into constructed formats... because it has a more consistant payout for them than drafts, allowing them to continue to play at little to no cost in dollars (although, some would argue greatly increases the time cost, which may be deal killer or insignificant to the player).
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd expect that most stores and very successful players would have it in their best interest that every single event they run brings in as much "dead money" as possible, as it allows for better and bigger payouts for them, more frequently, and with little increased risk. Any store that pushes for rare-redrafts is going to quickly chase away dead money, as an less skilled player isn't going to keep going to a venue that overly punishes and taxes them unless they have no other option.
More advanced players tend to like rare drafting as a form of prize payout because it better simulates drafting at high level events where building a good deck is much more important than just picking the most valuable card. However the OPs reaction is exactly why I think it's a bad idea for stores to run drafts in this way. It's a huge turn off to a newer player when you have to take that planeswalker he opened away from him.
Not everyone can draft well. Letting people keep their rare's let people who aren't very good go home happy, while people who are good can draft well and try and win packs.
Everyone wins. Unless your winner prize packs suck.
For a LGS, I think this trumps any "rewards skill" argument. Unless the LGS's skilled players can keep the store afloat by themselves (or the LGS has a brisk online business selling singles/packs/boxes), rare redraft is bad for business.
Wizards is always trying to attract new players (to the chagrin of veteran or skilled players), so rare redrafting often just drives newer people away.
If the draft group is composed of only skilled players and veterans, then rare redrafting is fine.
Rare redrafting is a horrible tournament event. Its a stupid way for an LGS to save money by taking everyone's rares back to save a few dollars on prize packs. It really hurts the new player trying drafts out for the first time.
Wow. Called the store back, seems like the really do rare redrafts. So that's against DCI rules huh?
To my knowledge, there is no rule or policy that prohibits this for sanctioned events. Technically, the cards used in a Limited event remain the Tournament Organizer's property until the event is over, and he or she is free to do with them as seen fit once the event is completed and/or the player drops from the event.
Though, "rare draft" is deeply unpopular in many areas and definitely is something that the Tournament Organizer should ask about to make sure players prefer this. Some like it, because it keeps the cost of drafts down to just the product used for the draft. Either way, this is certainly something that should be clearly advertised to any potential player before registering for the event.
oh. That seems awful. I'll be staying far away from this store. Thanks.
it lets you focus on making the best deck you can instead of taking expensive cards that you can't even play in your deck. The only reasonable way to draft imo.
Not everyone can draft well. Letting people keep their rare's let people who aren't very good go home happy, while people who are good can draft well and try and win packs.
Everyone wins. Unless your winner prize packs suck.
Even the person that comes in last gets the 8th best card. Not to mention they get their choice of 17 rares, that's still better than just opening a random pack.
i used to go to a store that rare drafted and loved it. it was $10 to draft, and everyone was happy. we drafted rares and foils, so the player who came in first would often get an extra card or so. it means you dont have to pick that foil cavern of souls over a bomb uncommon because your better deck means you are more likely to finish with it.
i used to go to a store that rare drafted and loved it. it was $10 to draft, and everyone was happy. we drafted rares and foils, so the player who came in first would often get an extra card or so. it means you dont have to pick that foil cavern of souls over a bomb uncommon because your better deck means you are more likely to finish with it.
This is the trick. If people are drafting once a week and they are rare-redrafting... put that $5 you just saved into a jar and pick up the card you wanted after a couple of weeks. Not only did you get the card you "wanted," but you're a better drafter in the end.
I have done it several times and I thought it was ok. The owner only charged $10 for the draft so it was cheaper and it did reward the better players. If you are new to drafting you could do 2 drafts for $20 vs $30. I understand why some players don't like it, and honestly I don't care for it but it is practice at a reduced cost.
If you think about it this way..... $15 for the draft single elimination you do bad you get nothing. While hoping you were able to pull a money rare from 1 of 3 packs.
Or you rare draft at the end for $10 you get to do swiss and play more.... I have only ever seen swiss done for redrafting.
Both have advantages, to each his own.
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Even the person that comes in last gets the 8th best card. Not to mention they get their choice of 17 rares, that's still better than just opening a random pack.
Yeah, but when the Snapcaster you drafted goes first, and you just get a Kessig Cagebreakers or something, you might be a little disappointed. Right before AVR came out, I drafted at my LGS. Some kid drafted a Huntmaster, proceeded to go 0-3, but still had a great time because he got an awesome card. I went 3-0, won a bunch of chaff, and had a great time going 3-0. If we redrafted, I'd have an awesome time going 3-0 and pulling in a money card, while he'd feel awful and probably wouldn't be as inclined to come back again. That's why I like keeping what you draft.
Pretty much, yeah. I guess it's still better than paying full value for those packs and still getting jank though.
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Modern - RUG Delver RUG - Splinter Twin UR - Jund BRG
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
This is the trick. If people are drafting once a week and they are rare-redrafting... put that $5 you just saved into a jar and pick up the card you wanted after a couple of weeks. Not only did you get the card you "wanted," but you're a better drafter in the end.
And the draft stays more or less restricted to the regulars, with infrequent or casual drafters paying $10 to give a better chance of money cards to the winners rather than $15 to give that chance to themselves.
Then again most of my drafts are Swiss MTGO so what would I know.
If you draft with 7 other people, and re-draft the rares, you are garaunteed to get at least the 8th best card out of the 24 packs opened. Can you say that about doing it the other way? (anyone want to do the maths on the odds of doing better/worse than that?)
~ Tim
The 8th best card seems more than likely to be a rare worth a dollar or two that never really sees play in much. There can only be so many Entreats, Bonfires, planeswalkers, Caverns, etc. I saw a rare redraft once (wasn't participating in it, but I was in the store when it was going on) where the guy in third had to settle for crap.
But if people want to do the odds, then sure, I'd be interested to see what the EV is for a rare redraft at each place.
Rare redrafting is a purer form of a Limited tournament event. Its a reasonable way for players to save money by taking everyone's rares back to save a few dollars on entry fees. It really helps the new player trying drafts out for the first time focus on making a cohesive deck.
it lets you focus on making the best deck you can instead of taking expensive cards that you can't even play in your deck. The only reasonable way to draft imo.
Even the person that comes in last gets the 8th best card. Not to mention they get their choice of 17 rares, that's still better than just opening a random pack.
This is the trick. If people are drafting once a week and they are rare-redrafting... put that $5 you just saved into a jar and pick up the card you wanted after a couple of weeks. Not only did you get the card you "wanted," but you're a better drafter in the end.
I agree with the above two statements. Even if you do poorly, you still get a decent chance at walking away with a rare you actually want, which doesn't always happen when you draft normally (go open three packs sometime, how often do you see a decent rare?). Plus, these events are typically cheaper because there is no need for extra prize support. As mentioned above, take the money you save on entry fees and buy what you need, while simultaneously getting better at drafting.
What is that?
It's good because it rewards skill rather than just opening valuable rares and coming in last place and still basically winning.
- Willy Wonka
The Quote function doesn't work for me on this forum. Sorry for any confusion created.
Playing with friends, I think re-drafting the rares is nice. Nobody wants to put up extra packs for prize support, so we re-draft the rares at the end. People who play well get rewarded for it, and everybody goes home with something.
At a store I don't think it's really appropriate, and as someone above mentioned, it isn't even allowed in a DCI-sanctioned event. FNM is DCI-sanctioned, so if the shop is talking about doing this as part of their normal FNM process they're violating DCI rules.
All of that said, my playgroup has started each bringing prizes from home to contribute to the prize pool. Old packs, extra rares, whatever. That way there's prize support without having to redraft, or when we do things like cube that don't have "rares" to redraft.
Not everyone can draft well. Letting people keep their rare's let people who aren't very good go home happy, while people who are good can draft well and try and win packs.
Everyone wins. Unless your winner prize packs suck.
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
That is the most important point. Rare redrafting is stupid because it discourages players from coming back to the store if they are bad or not as seasoned as other players. Any LGS worth a damn will understand that a customer's money is good regardless of their skill level.
Part of this though is that some people grab the "best cards" or rare draft through the entire process, then act surprised when they don't grow as a Limited player. This at least lets people put value on things that will make their deck GOOD and playable rather than just chase cards that will be good in a rare binder.
Screw that, the money you pay into draft tournaments is supposedly to pay for the boosters, so if I draw a rare, I am going to keep that rare.
I don't care about the arguments about player skill, at the end of the day it's just good financial sense to not rare draft.
However, in sanctioned events, or even when it's a scheduled and planned event held by a store (sanctioned or no), I think it's a horrible thing to do, unless you're offering that draft at a significantly reduced price- for instance, an average draft at a store is going to cost $15 for packs and prize support. Unless you knock that down to $10 or less, it just seems to be even further penalizing the players you'd least want to... the new players.
Almost every store I've seen always runs a top-heavy prize support scheme, leading to the top four frequently walking off with significant portions of a box when they win. It seems pretty screwed up to want to heap even more on top of that, unless you've an exceptionally cutthroat competitive playerbase that you have no fear of evaporating on you.
Typically, I enjoy playing draft at my local stores as it's pretty much the most cost and time efficient way for me to enjoy the game. Besides the occasional times I'll boot up and play MTGO, the extent of my Magic playing is a weekly draft and dropping in on the Commander league, should I have the time that week.
With drafts, I can consistently be "in the hunt", for only $15 a week, and that's assuming I never open better than bulk rares, and never, ever place in prizes. The numbers tend to look even better to me when you consider that just about any constructed event a store will have will come along with at least a minimum $5 entry fee for prize support.
This ends up giving me 3 booster packs ($3.99 MSRP) to open at the cost of $10, and not only that... I get to pick the best contents for me out of multiple packs! Sometimes that means bearing down and building the absolute best deck I can out of the provided cards. Sometimes, that means skipping a marginal pick for a cards I'd like for my EDH decks, my collection, or even something a friend was looking for. Sometimes it means just picking up bulk rares because they look like fun and are coming late late in the packs, or even just unashamedly rare drafting because I know the math works out well for me and I can pay for or profit from the draft just during the drafting portion, and any packs won after that are gravy.
I do realize that if I played more frequently, I'd very much want redrafting to be a thing, because it minimizes the risk of a "critical failure"- that situation where you draft a deck that holds absolutely no value after the draft, and the prize support from whatever venue you're playing isn't enough to keep you rolling. It's the same reason why anyone trying to grind and go infinite on MTGO is going to cross over into constructed formats... because it has a more consistant payout for them than drafts, allowing them to continue to play at little to no cost in dollars (although, some would argue greatly increases the time cost, which may be deal killer or insignificant to the player).
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd expect that most stores and very successful players would have it in their best interest that every single event they run brings in as much "dead money" as possible, as it allows for better and bigger payouts for them, more frequently, and with little increased risk. Any store that pushes for rare-redrafts is going to quickly chase away dead money, as an less skilled player isn't going to keep going to a venue that overly punishes and taxes them unless they have no other option.
For a LGS, I think this trumps any "rewards skill" argument. Unless the LGS's skilled players can keep the store afloat by themselves (or the LGS has a brisk online business selling singles/packs/boxes), rare redraft is bad for business.
Wizards is always trying to attract new players (to the chagrin of veteran or skilled players), so rare redrafting often just drives newer people away.
If the draft group is composed of only skilled players and veterans, then rare redrafting is fine.
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To my knowledge, there is no rule or policy that prohibits this for sanctioned events. Technically, the cards used in a Limited event remain the Tournament Organizer's property until the event is over, and he or she is free to do with them as seen fit once the event is completed and/or the player drops from the event.
Though, "rare draft" is deeply unpopular in many areas and definitely is something that the Tournament Organizer should ask about to make sure players prefer this. Some like it, because it keeps the cost of drafts down to just the product used for the draft. Either way, this is certainly something that should be clearly advertised to any potential player before registering for the event.
it lets you focus on making the best deck you can instead of taking expensive cards that you can't even play in your deck. The only reasonable way to draft imo.
Even the person that comes in last gets the 8th best card. Not to mention they get their choice of 17 rares, that's still better than just opening a random pack.
This is the trick. If people are drafting once a week and they are rare-redrafting... put that $5 you just saved into a jar and pick up the card you wanted after a couple of weeks. Not only did you get the card you "wanted," but you're a better drafter in the end.
If you think about it this way..... $15 for the draft single elimination you do bad you get nothing. While hoping you were able to pull a money rare from 1 of 3 packs.
Or you rare draft at the end for $10 you get to do swiss and play more.... I have only ever seen swiss done for redrafting.
Both have advantages, to each his own.
Yeah, but when the Snapcaster you drafted goes first, and you just get a Kessig Cagebreakers or something, you might be a little disappointed. Right before AVR came out, I drafted at my LGS. Some kid drafted a Huntmaster, proceeded to go 0-3, but still had a great time because he got an awesome card. I went 3-0, won a bunch of chaff, and had a great time going 3-0. If we redrafted, I'd have an awesome time going 3-0 and pulling in a money card, while he'd feel awful and probably wouldn't be as inclined to come back again. That's why I like keeping what you draft.
Pretty much, yeah. I guess it's still better than paying full value for those packs and still getting jank though.
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
And the draft stays more or less restricted to the regulars, with infrequent or casual drafters paying $10 to give a better chance of money cards to the winners rather than $15 to give that chance to themselves.
Then again most of my drafts are Swiss MTGO so what would I know.
The 8th best card seems more than likely to be a rare worth a dollar or two that never really sees play in much. There can only be so many Entreats, Bonfires, planeswalkers, Caverns, etc. I saw a rare redraft once (wasn't participating in it, but I was in the store when it was going on) where the guy in third had to settle for crap.
But if people want to do the odds, then sure, I'd be interested to see what the EV is for a rare redraft at each place.
:sympu:NinjaFaerieStill:sympu:
:symb:Maga, Traitor to Mortals:symb:
Fixed your statement for you.
I agree with the above two statements. Even if you do poorly, you still get a decent chance at walking away with a rare you actually want, which doesn't always happen when you draft normally (go open three packs sometime, how often do you see a decent rare?). Plus, these events are typically cheaper because there is no need for extra prize support. As mentioned above, take the money you save on entry fees and buy what you need, while simultaneously getting better at drafting.