Not sure where this should go, or whether this has been discussed before.
I was intrigued by a post in the New Card Discussion subforum under Rumor Mill regarding why Reforge the Soul should be priced higher, and how the preorder price for Time Reversal was $30
That got me thinking. I know player demand and speculation drives prices, but what, or who, sets the initial price? Why is, Cavern of Souls for example priced at 24.99 at SCG (and I presume other places as well), instead of 20.99, or 29.99? Is there an article or discussion regarding this?
SCG prices the card's however they choose to. This is usually based on the mob's reaction and it might have something to do with what the SCG players think (though we can't be sure). SCG will charge whatever a player is willing to spend on a card. For example, if 90% of the players know that a card is bad, but the other 10% are convinced that it is awesome, it will sell for its awesome price, as those are the players who will be buying it.
Intial price? Hype from people, articles, etc. After that, the card's results in Standard events will drive the price down or up.
Then of course there's the "Jace, the Mind Sculptor" effect that affects planeswalkers with even the slightest hint of playability and makes them presell for infi dollars. Remember when Sorin, Lord of Innistrad started at $50?
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Businesses set a price by gauging how quickly an item sells at a certain price. If you set your price too low and stock goes very quickly then you've left money on the table so to speak. If you set your price too high and stock just sits on the shelf then you're not making any money. It's about finding the right price-point that gets you the highest profit while still pushing stock out the door.
For Magic cards speculation can certainly drive up demand. If demand goes up while supply looks to be low, as is the case with all mythics, then price will naturally go up.
In response to the OP's specific question about the precise pre-order prices set by sites like SCG, they seem to be based upon the pre-order prices for the preceding sets. For example, if a planeswalker that was highly hyped from the point of its spoiling, like Koth of the Hammer, was set at $49.99, then its reasonable that a similarly popular planeswalker in the next expansion or block, like Liliana of the Veil, would be priced in the same way. The issue is complicated in cases where there isn't a recent precedent, Cavern of Souls being a contemporary example - in such an instance, I suspect that pricing is more arbitrary.
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A few things can realistically affect card prices, after initial pre-sales hype and "OMFG XXX IS INSANE!!!!!!" thoughts.
Casual players - if the casual players like a card, or is very good for casual play, it will demand a price.
EDH - Similar to Casual, except that EDH has become much more popular in the last couple years, and more competitive. There is also a limit of 1 card, but the possibilities are never-ending almost. This can also keep the prices of certain Legendary creatures up there.
Standard - The most widely played Sanctioned Format, this is the reason anything in standard is the price it is. An appearance by a previously unknown top finishing deck can drive prices temporarily, as well as getting a deck out on the scene. This gets amplified when played by "Pros" at large events.
Modern - This is most volatile format in terms of prices. Every 3 months, any given card could just tank in price due to a ban, or spike from being unbanned (haha). Once the threat of not investing because it may just get banned passes, things will settle more, and as more staples are reprinted. This format will also keep up the price in standard cards that are playable in Modern.
As for presale pricing, most online stores set a price for a card, and once their stock sells out (most stores only list 8 for a rare/mythic at a time), the price is increased (based on rarity obviously; we're not gonna bump a $1 uncommon to $3). If the card continues to sell out, the price continues to rise.
For planeswalkers, the typical prices is probaly $30-40 initially. It also depends on how good the abilities actually seem. Tibalt isn't nor wasn't at $40, but its a 2-drop red PW.
If its a new set, basicly its speculation. People are playing a game hoping they dont miss the next sleeper card. They want to be in on the windfall of cash when the card catches on.
Your question has pretty much been answered but I'm going to add this to why Cavern of Souls is about $22 right now and not $50.
The card is absolutely going to become a standard staple in many tribal decks and may even become a staple in eternal formats.
However, lands in general (with a few exceptions) don't usually go beyond $20 to $30 a pop, especially when they're still in print. After AVR stops being printed, if this land becomes the force I think it's going to be, I can see it going for $30 to $35, maybe a little more.
Will it ever become Revised dual land price? I doubt it, but who knows? It really depends on what kind of impact it has on the game. But I can see it going up to Mutavault price easily after the set goes out of print.
SCG's new (as of DKA) pre-order guarantee is total bull. Did anyone else notice that there were NO reductions in price over the entire set this time? NONE. This is a tactic to keep the pre-order prices high in order to garner that much more money off the hype.
SCG's new (as of DKA) pre-order guarantee is total bull. Did anyone else notice that there were NO reductions in price over the entire set this time? NONE. This is a tactic to keep the pre-order prices high in order to garner that much more money off the hype.
You are not the only one. SCG is terrible and I still cannot believe people keep using them. Its really hilarious to see SCG be the only shop to not decrease prices at all during spoiler season. Temporal was(haven't looked recently so sets out might be lowered by now) locked at 40 on SCG, CoolStuffInc at the exact same time was preordering them for 30.
You are not the only one. SCG is terrible and I still cannot believe people keep using them. Its really hilarious to see SCG be the only shop to not decrease prices at all during spoiler season. Temporal was(haven't looked recently so sets out might be lowered by now) locked at 40 on SCG, CoolStuffInc at the exact same time was preordering them for 30.
They're going to sell them at the price people are willing to pay. If people are buying Temporal Mastery at $40 then SCG is going to price them at $40. If their stock of Temporal Mastery doesn't move they will lower the price.
That got me thinking. I know player demand and speculation drives prices, but what, or who, sets the initial price? Why is, Cavern of Souls for example priced at 24.99 at SCG (and I presume other places as well), instead of 20.99, or 29.99? Is there an article or discussion regarding this?
The initial price is a guess. That is all. Based on how many orders at that price, it gets adjusted up or down. Eventually it will stabilize until market factors force change again.
The initial price during pre-release is a guess and they'll constantly update it depending on orders and competitors. Afterwards demand drives prices. If the card is highly sough after and the supply is super low, price goes up.
Liliana of the Veil is the best example I can think of where people were cramming her as a 4 of into solar flare the first week she was out and subsequently the price spiked to like $70.
As far as the SCG thing, I don't know what people are raging about.
If you don't want to buy stuff from them, don't. Move on with your life and buy from someone else.
"SCG is terrible and I still cannot believe people keep using them. Its really hilarious to see SCG be the only shop to not decrease prices at all during spoiler season. "
Its not that hilarious. Turn off the interwebs and go play some magic or something. They're a business, they're out to make money. Its not a community outreach program. Its a guy who put a bunch of money into a business and now would like to get a return on that money. When they stop making money on a card, they'll lower the price.
They're going to sell them at the price people are willing to pay. If people are buying Temporal Mastery at $40 then SCG is going to price them at $40. If their stock of Temporal Mastery doesn't move they will lower the price.
Theres this thing that happens too called lowering prices. CoolStuff had them at 40 for a while too, then dropped the price. SCG put it to 40 and never looked back, due to just how much they would lose with dropping the price at all while covering their asses with the preorder guarantee that basically reads "We wont drop this price until we are out of preorder time, because we lose money if we do. And we will be actively going out of our way to assure we never have to pay out"
@GNP there are TONS of better places to get cards, with better policies and prices. SCG just seems to get a pass just because they are the biggest. They shouldn't, and the only reason they are where they are today are the sheep that think paying more for the same thing makes it better.
Theres this thing that happens too called lowering prices. CoolStuff had them at 40 for a while too, then dropped the price. SCG put it to 40 and never looked back, due to just how much they would lose with dropping the price at all while covering their asses with the preorder guarantee that basically reads "We wont drop this price until we are out of preorder time, because we lose money if we do. And we will be actively going out of our way to assure we never have to pay out"
So? If SCG accidentally prices a card too highly and loses customers to other businesses, it's not your problem. Just buy the card from someone else.
I don't know what on earth you are complaining about.
Theres this thing that happens too called lowering prices. CoolStuff had them at 40 for a while too, then dropped the price. SCG put it to 40 and never looked back, due to just how much they would lose with dropping the price at all while covering their asses with the preorder guarantee that basically reads "We wont drop this price until we are out of preorder time, because we lose money if we do. And we will be actively going out of our way to assure we never have to pay out"
SCG is not obligated to drop their preorder price when a competitor does. If they didn't drop their price it was most likely because they still had preorders coming it a $40.
It is unlikely that we are ever again going to get another decent planeswalker. Wizards seem hell bent on spamming us with lame turdwalkers. DO they really think we need a planeswalker to think a set good. Give us something interesting that is not a planeswalker please.
I was intrigued by a post in the New Card Discussion subforum under Rumor Mill regarding why Reforge the Soul should be priced higher, and how the preorder price for Time Reversal was $30
That got me thinking. I know player demand and speculation drives prices, but what, or who, sets the initial price? Why is, Cavern of Souls for example priced at 24.99 at SCG (and I presume other places as well), instead of 20.99, or 29.99? Is there an article or discussion regarding this?
"I think a lot of people will want this, probably as much as so-and-so, so I'll price it like X." It isn't an exact vakue as it is a feel for things.
(italicized portion is relevant to your question).
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Then of course there's the "Jace, the Mind Sculptor" effect that affects planeswalkers with even the slightest hint of playability and makes them presell for infi dollars. Remember when Sorin, Lord of Innistrad started at $50?
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
Businesses set a price by gauging how quickly an item sells at a certain price. If you set your price too low and stock goes very quickly then you've left money on the table so to speak. If you set your price too high and stock just sits on the shelf then you're not making any money. It's about finding the right price-point that gets you the highest profit while still pushing stock out the door.
For Magic cards speculation can certainly drive up demand. If demand goes up while supply looks to be low, as is the case with all mythics, then price will naturally go up.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Casual players - if the casual players like a card, or is very good for casual play, it will demand a price.
EDH - Similar to Casual, except that EDH has become much more popular in the last couple years, and more competitive. There is also a limit of 1 card, but the possibilities are never-ending almost. This can also keep the prices of certain Legendary creatures up there.
Standard - The most widely played Sanctioned Format, this is the reason anything in standard is the price it is. An appearance by a previously unknown top finishing deck can drive prices temporarily, as well as getting a deck out on the scene. This gets amplified when played by "Pros" at large events.
Modern - This is most volatile format in terms of prices. Every 3 months, any given card could just tank in price due to a ban, or spike from being unbanned (haha). Once the threat of not investing because it may just get banned passes, things will settle more, and as more staples are reprinted. This format will also keep up the price in standard cards that are playable in Modern.
As for presale pricing, most online stores set a price for a card, and once their stock sells out (most stores only list 8 for a rare/mythic at a time), the price is increased (based on rarity obviously; we're not gonna bump a $1 uncommon to $3). If the card continues to sell out, the price continues to rise.
For planeswalkers, the typical prices is probaly $30-40 initially. It also depends on how good the abilities actually seem. Tibalt isn't nor wasn't at $40, but its a 2-drop red PW.
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Older sets is straight supply and demand.
The card is absolutely going to become a standard staple in many tribal decks and may even become a staple in eternal formats.
However, lands in general (with a few exceptions) don't usually go beyond $20 to $30 a pop, especially when they're still in print. After AVR stops being printed, if this land becomes the force I think it's going to be, I can see it going for $30 to $35, maybe a little more.
Will it ever become Revised dual land price? I doubt it, but who knows? It really depends on what kind of impact it has on the game. But I can see it going up to Mutavault price easily after the set goes out of print.
You are not the only one. SCG is terrible and I still cannot believe people keep using them. Its really hilarious to see SCG be the only shop to not decrease prices at all during spoiler season. Temporal was(haven't looked recently so sets out might be lowered by now) locked at 40 on SCG, CoolStuffInc at the exact same time was preordering them for 30.
They're going to sell them at the price people are willing to pay. If people are buying Temporal Mastery at $40 then SCG is going to price them at $40. If their stock of Temporal Mastery doesn't move they will lower the price.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
The initial price is a guess. That is all. Based on how many orders at that price, it gets adjusted up or down. Eventually it will stabilize until market factors force change again.
Liliana of the Veil is the best example I can think of where people were cramming her as a 4 of into solar flare the first week she was out and subsequently the price spiked to like $70.
As far as the SCG thing, I don't know what people are raging about.
If you don't want to buy stuff from them, don't. Move on with your life and buy from someone else.
"SCG is terrible and I still cannot believe people keep using them. Its really hilarious to see SCG be the only shop to not decrease prices at all during spoiler season. "
Its not that hilarious. Turn off the interwebs and go play some magic or something. They're a business, they're out to make money. Its not a community outreach program. Its a guy who put a bunch of money into a business and now would like to get a return on that money. When they stop making money on a card, they'll lower the price.
Theres this thing that happens too called lowering prices. CoolStuff had them at 40 for a while too, then dropped the price. SCG put it to 40 and never looked back, due to just how much they would lose with dropping the price at all while covering their asses with the preorder guarantee that basically reads "We wont drop this price until we are out of preorder time, because we lose money if we do. And we will be actively going out of our way to assure we never have to pay out"
@GNP there are TONS of better places to get cards, with better policies and prices. SCG just seems to get a pass just because they are the biggest. They shouldn't, and the only reason they are where they are today are the sheep that think paying more for the same thing makes it better.
I don't know what on earth you are complaining about.
SCG is not obligated to drop their preorder price when a competitor does. If they didn't drop their price it was most likely because they still had preorders coming it a $40.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
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