I disagree with the idea that it isn't because of the price of cards. I've played around fifteen to twenty CCG's semi-competitively to very competitively. The two big ones I played were Star Wars CCG and Lord of the Rings TCG.
These stories were very isolated incidents at major events and conventions. Simply because the cards didn't reach the absurd prices Magic cards have. Simply because there were always enough of them for the people playing. The game was the main idea. Not the money.
Take Magic on that note. The idea behind Unlimited was just that. Unlimited. We'll keep printing it and it'll always be available. Nobody wants to steal your Moxes, Lotuses, and Power 9 if they are a dime a dozen. Cut off reprints and supply for some artificial reason and these things start to happen - guess what they did with Unlimited? Made it limited and very scarce. Well done.
Congratulations...the collector's and people who care more about the value of their cards than the game itself have managed to create what is becoming a more and more hostile environment to play in.
Environments where people have their collections stolen, David Williams has his Vintage deck stolen, and Justin Parnell has people taking his Cube. Not as isolated incidents - but at every single GP, SCG Open, or any other venue. Than it ends up on here as a thread where people decry the asswads that are taking advantage of a problem they created through their own greed and stupidity. You could always go to youtube and look at the collection of people that own eighty Force of Wills and thirty copies of each dual land. Since, you know, having twenty playsets of Force of Will you aren't ever using is great for the player base of the game in Legacy.
The same way that 99% of the Magic community will often throw everything in a pack away except for the choice uncommon, rare, or mythic. Nobody steals commons or uncommons because it isn't worth it. Think about that.
Given that you have this knowledge and that the environment has been turned into what it is - you're insane to leave that kind of stuff laying around in any kind of unsecured aspect. In your car. On the table in between games. While you are distracted for only a second.
If you're carrying more than what you need for your current tournament you run risks you don't need to be taking. Anything not needed should be in your hotel room or in a coat pocket. It's that simple.
@OP
I hope you recover your cards somehow.
I dont care about the people who did that for you because theres no enough punishment for them. Also its sad to realize this happened because theres a Magic player involded on this.
@everyone saying OP wasnt careful enough
When you have a daughter will you lock her home so nobodys can abuse her?
Do not assume the theft was by a Magic the Gathering player. Baltimore City criminals are not stupid, and when they see three well off guys leave large, well-packed bags in an unmonitored car.... well, you get the picture.
I went to college near the city, and we would often have non-students enter the library and steal unattended backpacks. During Otakon every year, many attendees are scammed or are stolen from as well. The theives know when there is a convention, and will look for likely targets. They will primarily use Ebay to sell their stolen goods.
The bags were most likely the subject of a 'grab bag' robbery. It happens all the time in Baltimore, where bags left in the passenger compartment of your car are stolen - even empty ones. Odds are, they will succeed and find more valuable things than failures, and their chances of getting caught are low on each attempt.
I'm sorry it happened to the OP. The lesson to take from this is don't leave valuables, or things that look valuable, visible in your car. You have a trunk - and by leaving important-looking things in your trunk rather than visible in your car, you'll prevent all but the most determined thief. Good luck!
I agree with this. Smash and grabs are crimes of opportunity. Worst case scenario is the thief gets a bag of junk he can't use and throws it away. The easiest way to avoid this is to use the trunk or to stow things out of sight under the seats. Or simply just keep things of value or temptation out of your car to begin with.
Going to GP SLC in a few weeks... I'll be bringing only my deck, paper, and dice.
I also believe that the reason things like this happen is because cards are so insanely valuable. If Wizards would reprint legacy staples instead of letting their price increase forever, thieves would be less likely to jack boxes. Probably never gonna happen though, thanks reserved list!!
I'm on board with this. I think it is *absolutely* fair to say that WotC is somewhat culpable in this. Note that first and foremost, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the criminals are the problem here. But this is definitely born of card value. This is clearly, as many have pointed out, a growing problem. Yes, Baltimore is a terrible city for crime already, but I doubt most of the criminals in Baltimore know a Magic card from a dimebag. But that story from last year about a kid (or kids?) getting their faces smashed into the wall in the bathroom was vile and disgusting. And it could happen anywhere else.
Regarding this poster - as far as your car goes, trunk is *always* better than car. But this story clearly shows that you and your friends were being scouted/stalked. And that's one of the scary things here, these criminals are "stepping up their game."
Back to Wizards. If the goddamn card values weren't so high this would not be the (growing) problem that it is. If it continues to escalate they need to respond. Speaking as an old-time player with significant power cards, I really don't care that much about those dollar values. I hate the cost and value of so many cards - be they old power or current Standard staples, or Modern in-between. The collectible nature of this game is out of hand, dollar values are too high. Wizards could easily take a different approach to make everything more readily available.
Do not assume the theft was by a Magic the Gathering player. Baltimore City criminals are not stupid, and when they see three well off guys leave large, well-packed bags in an unmonitored car.... well, you get the picture.
Just to clarify - the event that OP is talking about was like this past weekend at the GP in Indy, not Baltimore.
The event in Baltimore was... last year? That involved attack/s in the bathroom.
Also @ frogczar - well said, children are incomparable to material assets and it is indeed ridiculous hyperbole.
When you factor in the dealers, there were probably upwards of $15 million dollars worth of cards that are easily transferrable into cash in that hall, and there was no security. That is completely insane. In fact, it's the type of score that could make it worthwhile for armed criminals to storm the place. That's Vegas casino type of money, and God knows how much firepower they have on hand to deter and thwart attempted robberies.
This is something that has to be addressed by Wizards. For constructed GPs, they HAVE to get armed security on the premises, and not just a couple rentacops durdling around. Seriously, would you feel safe hanging around in an unguarded area with millions of dollars in cahs around? I sure wouldn't.
Anyone whose post begins with "I'm sorry, but..." needs to just leave. You're as condescending as the If I were a poor black kid article and you are doing nothing to help the poster, nor are you providing him with any retribution. You're just providing how you'd be SO MUCH SMARTER in the situation. Stop it.
And yes, every single one of you is engaging in Blaming the Victim which is the exact same mentality as "it was her fault for being sexually assaulted. She shouldn't have worn that dress/been in that place/gone to that party." It IS shame on the thieves, it is NOT shame on the OP for not being ultra-paranoid. There's a reason "paranoia" is a psychologically defined disease.
Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
Anyone whose post begins with "I'm sorry, but..." needs to just leave. You're as condescending as the If I were a poor black kid article and you are doing nothing to help the poster, nor are you providing him with any retribution. You're just providing how you'd be SO MUCH SMARTER in the situation. Stop it.
And yes, every single one of you is engaging in Blaming the Victim which is the exact same mentality as "it was her fault for being sexually assaulted. She shouldn't have worn that dress/been in that place/gone to that party." It IS shame on the thieves, it is NOT shame on the OP for not being ultra-paranoid. There's a reason "paranoia" is a psychologically defined disease.
You can still be a victim and have behaved negligently. Just because people shouldn't do bad things to other people, doesn't mean that we should release people from all responsibility to protect themselves and their property. We should both focus our energies on catching the criminals AND getting people to take at least minimal steps to protect themselves from the criminals who are out there, because it's a lot better to prevent crime before the fact than to do something about it ex post.
So basically, I truly am sorry about what happened to the OP. You don't deserve to get robbed just because you're slightly careless. BUT, this should serve as a lesson to OP and everyone else, to be careful when you're carrying around valuables. As has been pointed out by others, a Magic card is not much different than cash. It can be easily and quickly sold, and can't really be traced if the thief is not an idiot. Treat carrying large quantities of Magic cards the same as if you are carrying around large quantities of cash.
This is absolutely horrible. First the Cube at GP Balt, and now 3 guys' Legacy cards?
I have to wholeheartedly agree with sperry: if real criminals ever realize that an event like this can have that much value in a room, WotC needs to make it a top priority to get security at GP's. (PT's are closed events, correct?)
A petition or something needs to be started by the Magic Community, that strongly encourages/requests WotC to take these matters seriously against their players/customers, and get Private Security or something at these events. Us players need to speak up and be heard by WotC.
actually, putting a simple tracker into your backpack sounds like a smart idea, especially if the contents are in excess of $1000, let alone $5-10k. I wonder what the costs would be to do this.
Everyone needs to get in the habit of only using security backpacks when you're carrying around valuable decks or collections. You can get a really good anti-theft backpack for under $200 that is slash-proof and lockable, and while $200 may seem like a lot for a backpack, most of us have decks worth well more than that. I've heard Pacsafe is a pretty good brand for that. I know their bags are slashproof and come with integrated cable locks so you can securely lock your bag to whatever you need to.
Pac Safe has small, unisex, shoulder (man-purse) bags that are in the $50-$60 range that have the same anti-grab features like metal wire in the straps and fabric, anti-slash fabrics, and special clips that are lockable. They look good, and have a lot of organization. I have been using something like this for a couple years now, and am not sure how I got by before without my bag (aka man-purse).
The $200 back pack is pretty cool, though, as it has an interior cable safe that can be locked to a permanent fixture (in a car or in a hotel room), but I would only use it if I was bringing a collection to sell. The small unisex shoulder bag has enough room for a day of cards and personal belongings. There is also a camera bag that is like $110 that might hold cards a little more efficiently, but is a bit bulky for day to day non-card use.
@OP
I hope you recover your cards somehow.
I dont care about the people who did that for you because theres no enough punishment for them. Also its sad to realize this happened because theres a Magic player involded on this.
There is a great chance that the thief is not a M:tG player at all. All one needs to do is spend 30 min searching ebay for the things that sell frequently and for the most money, then find a convention or gathering where fans of the item are, and look for easy marks.
actually, putting a simple tracker into your backpack sounds like a smart idea, especially if the contents are in excess of $1000, let alone $5-10k. I wonder what the costs would be to do this.
Bags are the most identifiable item when things like this are grabbed. A smart thief will remove the contents of the bag as soon as they are alone and then dump the bag. You are more likely to track it if you could lojack your binder easily. The signals are easy to block, though, so it may have limited use no matter what.
I wonder what we, as a community can do to help in this matter?
There have already been a lot of excellent suggestions as to what the individual can do to help deter and prevent theft, but what can we as a community do to help foster a safe, protected environment for one another? Especially at things like GPs, etc.?
I am absolutely disgusted by this. I hope to dear god the guys who stole your mtg collections get what they have coming and to the GPBalt guys who think it was tight to jump someone from behind while someone is taking a leak to steal them of their mtg cards they also deserve what is coming to them. But there is some hope in all of this, this isn't the same situation the OP is in, but it's along the lines. I left my deck box in SCGCINI with my T2 delver deck and a half built modern bant deck, the cards alone were worth more than 500+ dollars and some weren't even mine. Mind you I'm from WI and traveled 12-14 hrs to play some standard and after dropping after round 9, my buddies and I left quickly, I thought nothing of it returned home and assumed it was in my bag the whole time. Skip to thursday night, I go to check my bag with no sight of my deck box, I freak out and text my buddies if they seen it or maybe I dropped in in there car and nothing. I think quickly and message SCG on facebook, they walk me through how I can contact someone for my lost stuff, within a 12-14 hr window I got a reply saying they had it!!! Jared, the SCG events manager had my deckbox in front of him, I was stoked. But in the end and conclusion to this story, I'm saying the mtg community really has some honest players out there, someone actually picked up my deckbox and gave it to the SCG event personal to get it back to me, we as a community have to look out for one another as we're all here to play and have fun, all hope isn't lost. Hope y'll get your stuff back.
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Caw-Blade by Me!
Format: Standard - NPH
Location: 2011 MMS Qualifier - Minneapolis, MN (6/4)
Players: 99
Finished: 2nd Place
I'm genuinely disinterested in attending GP Vancouver because I don't want my cards stolen. How sick is that?
It sucks that you believe one or two high profile stories equates to "If I attend a GP, my stuff will get stolen."
You're overreacting. Have some common sense when protecting your collection or items when you're at a large gathering of people, all of whom have high priced items on their person at all times.
A newborn child is not a target of common thieves and is also a living thing requiring constant care and attention.
And the thing he quoted wasn't ridiculous hyperbole? This theft has already been equated to sexual assault and child abuse. People are overreacting to this. There are plenty of practical solutions in the thread already, such as stop bringing your expensive collection of things to large gatherings and leaving it unattended.
Guys, I know the topic at hand is a controversial and (in many ways) tragic one, but please cool it with the tone and implications. Further deviations will be infracted.
I'm very sorry for your loss. I can't imagine trying to recover from that.
Those who take from others deserve to be punished. I wish someone would have witnessed it and come forward. You'd think breaking glass would draw some attention!
Good luck, and I hope you don't let this discourage you.
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============================
Hooked on Magic since The Dark.
Blue Rules. Berserk, Fork, Fork, Fork, Fork
"Does trample go around the table?"
============================
That just....blows, have had cards stolen (TWICE, first time was yu-gi-oh and the second was with magic), and it's not easy trying to get back into a game after having stuff stolen (I've honestly tried playing yu-gi-oh since but it's not the same)
I feel for ya bro. I wish I could help but as someone who just started playing magic again after having sold his entire collection to pay for a wedding I dont have a whole lot left. Just a bunch of decent Innistrad block cards. Hope you get your cards back or replacements for such!
Exactly. I refer to this as the "NY City Subway System 2:00 am" argument.
If you go down into the subway system at 2:00 am and there isn't anyone else around - it's probably safer to go back up to street level and hail a cab or start walking. Open spaces are safer and offer substantially more outs if a bad situation occurs.
Getting the mentality of being or feeling safe in those situations is absurd given the world we live in. Even if nothing happens 99 times out of a 100. Common sense is an important factor in preventing stupid things from happening to you. And if they do and you were responsible in your actions and took reasonable steps to prevent them from occurring you have a reasonable complaint.
Also...the GP Baltimore and this are one of at least fifty threads on this site. These things happen all the time. Knowing this and STILL doing things like bringing or carrying too much around the convention hall or leaving it in open sight in the car? Than complaining about your own stupidity when you weren't taking reasonable precautions?
This is actually an incorrect assumption. Open spaces with more people actually are higher risk due to the bystander effect.
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Playing:
Standard UWUW VenserUW 15-4 UWHerobladeUW 24-4
These stories were very isolated incidents at major events and conventions. Simply because the cards didn't reach the absurd prices Magic cards have. Simply because there were always enough of them for the people playing. The game was the main idea. Not the money.
Take Magic on that note. The idea behind Unlimited was just that. Unlimited. We'll keep printing it and it'll always be available. Nobody wants to steal your Moxes, Lotuses, and Power 9 if they are a dime a dozen. Cut off reprints and supply for some artificial reason and these things start to happen - guess what they did with Unlimited? Made it limited and very scarce. Well done.
Congratulations...the collector's and people who care more about the value of their cards than the game itself have managed to create what is becoming a more and more hostile environment to play in.
Environments where people have their collections stolen, David Williams has his Vintage deck stolen, and Justin Parnell has people taking his Cube. Not as isolated incidents - but at every single GP, SCG Open, or any other venue. Than it ends up on here as a thread where people decry the asswads that are taking advantage of a problem they created through their own greed and stupidity. You could always go to youtube and look at the collection of people that own eighty Force of Wills and thirty copies of each dual land. Since, you know, having twenty playsets of Force of Will you aren't ever using is great for the player base of the game in Legacy.
The same way that 99% of the Magic community will often throw everything in a pack away except for the choice uncommon, rare, or mythic. Nobody steals commons or uncommons because it isn't worth it. Think about that.
Given that you have this knowledge and that the environment has been turned into what it is - you're insane to leave that kind of stuff laying around in any kind of unsecured aspect. In your car. On the table in between games. While you are distracted for only a second.
If you're carrying more than what you need for your current tournament you run risks you don't need to be taking. Anything not needed should be in your hotel room or in a coat pocket. It's that simple.
I hope you recover your cards somehow.
I dont care about the people who did that for you because theres no enough punishment for them.
Also its sad to realize this happened because theres a Magic player involded on this.
@everyone saying OP wasnt careful enough
When you have a daughter will you lock her home so nobodys can abuse her?
Do not assume the theft was by a Magic the Gathering player. Baltimore City criminals are not stupid, and when they see three well off guys leave large, well-packed bags in an unmonitored car.... well, you get the picture.
I went to college near the city, and we would often have non-students enter the library and steal unattended backpacks. During Otakon every year, many attendees are scammed or are stolen from as well. The theives know when there is a convention, and will look for likely targets. They will primarily use Ebay to sell their stolen goods.
The bags were most likely the subject of a 'grab bag' robbery. It happens all the time in Baltimore, where bags left in the passenger compartment of your car are stolen - even empty ones. Odds are, they will succeed and find more valuable things than failures, and their chances of getting caught are low on each attempt.
I'm sorry it happened to the OP. The lesson to take from this is don't leave valuables, or things that look valuable, visible in your car. You have a trunk - and by leaving important-looking things in your trunk rather than visible in your car, you'll prevent all but the most determined thief. Good luck!
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I'm on board with this. I think it is *absolutely* fair to say that WotC is somewhat culpable in this. Note that first and foremost, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the criminals are the problem here. But this is definitely born of card value. This is clearly, as many have pointed out, a growing problem. Yes, Baltimore is a terrible city for crime already, but I doubt most of the criminals in Baltimore know a Magic card from a dimebag. But that story from last year about a kid (or kids?) getting their faces smashed into the wall in the bathroom was vile and disgusting. And it could happen anywhere else.
Regarding this poster - as far as your car goes, trunk is *always* better than car. But this story clearly shows that you and your friends were being scouted/stalked. And that's one of the scary things here, these criminals are "stepping up their game."
Back to Wizards. If the goddamn card values weren't so high this would not be the (growing) problem that it is. If it continues to escalate they need to respond. Speaking as an old-time player with significant power cards, I really don't care that much about those dollar values. I hate the cost and value of so many cards - be they old power or current Standard staples, or Modern in-between. The collectible nature of this game is out of hand, dollar values are too high. Wizards could easily take a different approach to make everything more readily available.
When you have a child, will you leave your newborn locked in the car for ten minutes unattended?
Ridiculous hyperbole.
A newborn child is not a target of common thieves and is also a living thing requiring constant care and attention.
How about some constructive suggestions for helping the poor fellow who had his property (and not a newborn child) stolen from his secured automobile.
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My Mirage Cube
Just to clarify - the event that OP is talking about was like this past weekend at the GP in Indy, not Baltimore.
The event in Baltimore was... last year? That involved attack/s in the bathroom.
Also @ frogczar - well said, children are incomparable to material assets and it is indeed ridiculous hyperbole.
When you factor in the dealers, there were probably upwards of $15 million dollars worth of cards that are easily transferrable into cash in that hall, and there was no security. That is completely insane. In fact, it's the type of score that could make it worthwhile for armed criminals to storm the place. That's Vegas casino type of money, and God knows how much firepower they have on hand to deter and thwart attempted robberies.
This is something that has to be addressed by Wizards. For constructed GPs, they HAVE to get armed security on the premises, and not just a couple rentacops durdling around. Seriously, would you feel safe hanging around in an unguarded area with millions of dollars in cahs around? I sure wouldn't.
And yes, every single one of you is engaging in Blaming the Victim which is the exact same mentality as "it was her fault for being sexually assaulted. She shouldn't have worn that dress/been in that place/gone to that party." It IS shame on the thieves, it is NOT shame on the OP for not being ultra-paranoid. There's a reason "paranoia" is a psychologically defined disease.
It also reaffirms my decision to give up on 'real' cards, which is too bad for WotC.
You can still be a victim and have behaved negligently. Just because people shouldn't do bad things to other people, doesn't mean that we should release people from all responsibility to protect themselves and their property. We should both focus our energies on catching the criminals AND getting people to take at least minimal steps to protect themselves from the criminals who are out there, because it's a lot better to prevent crime before the fact than to do something about it ex post.
So basically, I truly am sorry about what happened to the OP. You don't deserve to get robbed just because you're slightly careless. BUT, this should serve as a lesson to OP and everyone else, to be careful when you're carrying around valuables. As has been pointed out by others, a Magic card is not much different than cash. It can be easily and quickly sold, and can't really be traced if the thief is not an idiot. Treat carrying large quantities of Magic cards the same as if you are carrying around large quantities of cash.
I have to wholeheartedly agree with sperry: if real criminals ever realize that an event like this can have that much value in a room, WotC needs to make it a top priority to get security at GP's. (PT's are closed events, correct?)
A petition or something needs to be started by the Magic Community, that strongly encourages/requests WotC to take these matters seriously against their players/customers, and get Private Security or something at these events. Us players need to speak up and be heard by WotC.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
The $200 back pack is pretty cool, though, as it has an interior cable safe that can be locked to a permanent fixture (in a car or in a hotel room), but I would only use it if I was bringing a collection to sell. The small unisex shoulder bag has enough room for a day of cards and personal belongings. There is also a camera bag that is like $110 that might hold cards a little more efficiently, but is a bit bulky for day to day non-card use.
There is a great chance that the thief is not a M:tG player at all. All one needs to do is spend 30 min searching ebay for the things that sell frequently and for the most money, then find a convention or gathering where fans of the item are, and look for easy marks.
Bags are the most identifiable item when things like this are grabbed. A smart thief will remove the contents of the bag as soon as they are alone and then dump the bag. You are more likely to track it if you could lojack your binder easily. The signals are easy to block, though, so it may have limited use no matter what.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I hope the person who is responsible for this doesn't wake up tomorrow.
That should give you some idea how I feel.
I wonder what we, as a community can do to help in this matter?
There have already been a lot of excellent suggestions as to what the individual can do to help deter and prevent theft, but what can we as a community do to help foster a safe, protected environment for one another? Especially at things like GPs, etc.?
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Format: Standard - NPH
Location: 2011 MMS Qualifier - Minneapolis, MN (6/4)
Players: 99
Finished: 2nd Place
TRADE THREAD
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=347708
It sucks that you believe one or two high profile stories equates to "If I attend a GP, my stuff will get stolen."
You're overreacting. Have some common sense when protecting your collection or items when you're at a large gathering of people, all of whom have high priced items on their person at all times.
And the thing he quoted wasn't ridiculous hyperbole? This theft has already been equated to sexual assault and child abuse. People are overreacting to this. There are plenty of practical solutions in the thread already, such as stop bringing your expensive collection of things to large gatherings and leaving it unattended.
[GTC] Gatecrash Patch for MWS (249/249)
Those who take from others deserve to be punished. I wish someone would have witnessed it and come forward. You'd think breaking glass would draw some attention!
Good luck, and I hope you don't let this discourage you.
Hooked on Magic since The Dark.
Blue Rules.
Berserk, Fork, Fork, Fork, Fork
"Does trample go around the table?"
============================
Sure it was wrong, but you didn't do anything to prevent it.
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This is actually an incorrect assumption. Open spaces with more people actually are higher risk due to the bystander effect.
Standard
UWUW VenserUW 15-4
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