The fact that people came over to talk about the girl heavily implies that she has friends in the store, who would most likely be voting for her.
Clearly she had friends there. That was not the part of what you said that I questioned.
Her being a girl is relevant because people would be more likely to throw a vote her way as a showing of tolerance towards female players, or if they're guys, because they'll trip over themselves to make a girl happy.
Wow, you managed to patronize and insult both men and women in one sentence. It is possible that her having friends there had an impact on whether she won this community voted award, but thinking that it had anything to do with her being a woman is a pretty big assumption.
It is this sort of thing that is wrong with this thread. It is understandable and human to want to vent about a bad experience. It is empathetic to commiserate with that person, and share a similar experience. Things break down and become toxic, however, when people make assumptions and judgments based on limited information.
As bad as it sounds, it's entirely possible that she got the votes because she is a girl. You may find it wrong as much as the rest of us, but it's a real scenario considering what kind of environment the gaming community can be.
As bad as it sounds, it's entirely possible that she got the votes because she is a girl. You may find it wrong as much as the rest of us, but it's a real scenario considering what kind of environment the gaming community can be.
She may have gotten votes because she had a blue Pikachu shirt and only one butt-cheek too. That she is a woman is certainly a possible reason she got votes, as are countless others. The only factor that was really relevant was the fact that she apparently had several friends present that tried to put her actions in context, as that was an objective fact stated by the poster. Yes, that the person's opponent is referred to as "she", so technically it is as much of a fact that the opponent was a woman. Wildnerul, however, never gave any indication that her gender was in anyway a factor. If it was indicated in some way that Wildnerul has not said, then yes you could make a reasonable assumption that the people at the shop doing the voting were sexist and patronizing, but that has not been stated. That is wild speculation that says more about the people making it than it does shed light on the situation. Why make the comment in the first place?
As bad as it sounds, it's entirely possible that she got the votes because she is a girl. You may find it wrong as much as the rest of us, but it's a real scenario considering what kind of environment the gaming community can be.
She may have gotten votes because she had a blue Pikachu shirt and only one butt-cheek too. That she is a woman is certainly a possible reason she got votes, as are countless others. The only factor that was really relevant was the fact that she apparently had several friends present that tried to put her actions in context, as that was an objective fact stated by the poster. Yes, that the person's opponent is referred to as "she", so technically it is as much of a fact that the opponent was a woman. Wildnerul, however, never gave any indication that her gender was in anyway a factor. If it was indicated in some way that Wildnerul has not said, then yes you could make a reasonable assumption that the people at the shop doing the voting were sexist and patronizing, but that has not been stated. That is wild speculation that says more about the people making it than it does shed light on the situation. Why make the comment in the first place?
Seeing as I made the original post I will clear things up a bit. The people coming over were mostly people who have kids some even had their kids playing next to them. These were not the kind of people who would just want to do something simply because the player is female. Sadly I nor any of my friends have ever played a game I would call friendly against her, spanning nearly a decade of magic playing at this point. I called them excuses because of the way they were being said, I don't believe any player should be allowed to "explode" especially at a real event. Shows bad precedence, especially for the younger players. Now we should probably get back to what this thread is about and not worry overtly about how often magic players are sexist.
Had a good one at FNM the other night. I was playing a diluted version of Atarka Red, he's playing B/W Allies. He presents his deck, and I shuffle it (habit I'm trying to get into for when I start going to Grand Prix) and he starts getting a little salty about it. I win game 1, and we shuffle up. He asks if I'm going to shuffle his deck again, and I tell him yes. He goes off at me and says I can just have the round, that I'm disrespecting him and his cards by shuffling his deck. Says he has $400 worth of cards in there. I suggest he sleeve his deck and he gets in my face yelling for me to never tell him what to do with his cards. TO told him to take a walk.
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Standard: GR Pummeler
Modern: Mono-Red Control, Lantern Control, Eldrazi Taxes, Skred Infect
Pauper: Affinity
EDH: Gaddock Teeg Kithkin Tribal, Meren
Legacy: 8 Rack, Omnitell (Both in progress)
Some mine stories:
1) duel commander tournament me playin UR nin vs Marath. G1 I survived for 5 turns on 2 life killing / countering his big marath every turn. Then I played ruination and he was left without lands. Game two: he started with fetch, i get island. He fetches EOT so I stiffle. I dropped blood moon on T3. He then started yelling at me about it being stupid strategy - while playing one of the most stupid commanders available (seriously, you are going around the commander tax that was supposed to hinder you and instead you are getting stronger and stronger creature?)
2) another DC tournament: me playing Nin vs Azami - the game was incredibly slow and the guy started trading in the middle of the game
3) yet another DC tournament: Playing Nin vs Rafiq: Both games I killed his early mana dorks and dropped blood moon T3. He didnt play single basic land. I couldnt find any wincoditon G2 and he instead of scooping was hoping "to draw something" while I was drawing 7+ cards/turn with Nin activations. He was making comments about the game going forever while he had chance to scoop. He didnt even shake my hand after the game (I get that he was pissed but hey manners)
Probably the Guy 3 was the worst. No2 apologized at least and was cool after that. Guy 1 is one of my mtg friends so I am used to his behavior (not that its something I like to experience at tournaments)
Commander tournaments seem counter-intuitive to me, but whatever. I don't think Opponent 1 should be filed under the "worst/rudest opponent category". Also, you shouldn't have to expect your opponents to scoop if they're in a bad position. I don't offer my hand to shake if it was a sour match and I wiped the floor with them--that's bad manners to me. However, there's an entire thread devoted to that topic buried somewhere in the forums so I won't elaborate here.
Me and a friend were playing at a 2HG back during Mirrodin Besieged/Innistrad (I was doing G/W weenies and he was doing Tempered Steel/Battlecry)
This guy and a kid (they probably got paired together because they both went and didn't have partners, idk) were playing against us. The kid was running some underwhelming green thing and the guy was running Delver (of course). Upon attacking (and potentially dealing lethal damage), the kid waited until after blockers were declared (there were none declared) before casting Fog. The guy was all pissed and flustered and started getting hostile to the kid telling him he can't cast the Fog because no blockers were declared and therefore there's no 'time' for him to cast the spell because it isn't in response to anything (what?). I told him that he can cast it when no blockers are declared, and the guy got all mad and called for a judge.
When the judge (obviously) told him he could cast the Fog and prevent the damage, the guy got even more mad and decided to counter the kid's Fog (on his own team) shouting that they were going to lose anyway.
That same day, we got paired with another kid and a guy we had never met but the guy was nowhere to be found. After being forced to forfeit the first round due to his absence, the guy showed up last minute to the second round, drunk off his ass from the bar across the street. The guy was playing a mill deck, and the kid was playing R/W aggro, but was being very defensive. Their strategy won out, the guy ultimately milling us out with Increasing Confusions galore. During the game, however, the guy was unfamiliar with what LITERALLY EVERY CARD DID and was really rude and grabby with our cards. We didn't press the matter though, because the kid was already probably having a weird time with this stranger he too was probably paired with.
Overall it was a weird day with a lot of rude older gentleman getting paired with children.
Last Gameday I noticed a trash-talking dude, he seemed to criticize his opponets every move and smack-talk every one's deck in between rounds, I even heard him say he hoped his last game ended quick cause he needed to go grab a bite and he'd be back for more a-kicking. At this point, everyone in the tourney knew He got a warning on the first match, a game loss on the 2nd (repetitive bad behavior), a match loss on the 3rd round and still made it to table 1 with me.
Figured I'd give him a run for his money, he was pointing out how much money he spent on his 4x ojutai's and jaces before our match, I was already qualified for top 8 with a 3-0, this guy and 3 more were at 2-1-0 so even if I played his game and got a match loss I'd make it to the knockout stage. It was worth the risk, if you ask me.
We start shuffling and roll a dice to see who starts, I win the first die roll, he complains and says my dice is tricked and we should roll with his instead, I agree and we roll again, I win, this time for real.
At this point in time I start shuffling kinda slowly just to get on his nerves, we draw 7 and I see him reach for his box and pull out a jace, he was running the proxy card. So I just mull hard for despise down to 5, I keep, scry into a 2nd despise.
I play despise and knock out a jace, noticing the 2nd one on his hand. I draw my 2nd despise and knock it out too, At this point in time I say to him: "Hey, Isn't jace worth like 75 bucks?" He fell right for it, he starts ranting, bashing and even said "Yeah, that's roughly what your mother charges for a night".
Judge sends him packing and TO bans him from the store.
Later I found he was a yugioh player, the yugioh environment is super toxic down here, I've seen more than 1 match end in a fist fight and he was known as one of the more toxic players in that community, and that he was banned from most stores in the city so he decided to start playing MtG since he literally couldn't play yugioh anywhere.
Last Gameday I noticed a trash-talking dude, he seemed to criticize his opponets every move and smack-talk every one's deck in between rounds, I even heard him say he hoped his last game ended quick cause he needed to go grab a bite and he'd be back for more a-kicking. At this point, everyone in the tourney knew He got a warning on the first match, a game loss on the 2nd (repetitive bad behavior), a match loss on the 3rd round and still made it to table 1 with me.
Figured I'd give him a run for his money, he was pointing out how much money he spent on his 4x ojutai's and jaces before our match, I was already qualified for top 8 with a 3-0, this guy and 3 more were at 2-1-0 so even if I played his game and got a match loss I'd make it to the knockout stage. It was worth the risk, if you ask me.
We start shuffling and roll a dice to see who starts, I win the first die roll, he complains and says my dice is tricked and we should roll with his instead, I agree and we roll again, I win, this time for real.
At this point in time I start shuffling kinda slowly just to get on his nerves, we draw 7 and I see him reach for his box and pull out a jace, he was running the proxy card. So I just mull hard for despise down to 5, I keep, scry into a 2nd despise.
I play despise and knock out a jace, noticing the 2nd one on his hand. I draw my 2nd despise and knock it out too, At this point in time I say to him: "Hey, Isn't jace worth like 75 bucks?" He fell right for it, he starts ranting, bashing and even said "Yeah, that's roughly what your mother charges for a night".
Judge sends him packing and TO bans him from the store.
Later I found he was a yugioh player, the yugioh environment is super toxic down here, I've seen more than 1 match end in a fist fight and he was known as one of the more toxic players in that community, and that he was banned from most stores in the city so he decided to start playing MtG since he literally couldn't play yugioh anywhere.
Some kid, that was.
You're a terrible person, in an awesome way. Kinda reminds me of some of my own friends, or maybe something I would do if I really hated that person.
I was playing in a 2 headed giant and my deck was running perfectly....which was rare for that deck. My teammate was just there to throw out some counters. So basically I got the emblem for Narset, Transcendent and the guy was running a blue deck with little to no creatures of his own (thief deck) and his teammate was mana screwed. He threw his hand across the room, started shouting curses about how stupid my deck was and stormed out of the house. He left his cards. I was just like.... it's a game.....:eek:
Was playing a guy on MTGO the other day in a BFZ draft. I beat him 2-0. We had gone through the obligatory gl hf and all at the beginning and then started playing. His deck was really annoying, seemed like it was trying to stall for something but I never actually saw what. My deck was kind of weird, I ended up playing a weird Jund devoid deck that was basically just a ton of removal.
Game one he never touched me, I hit with some landfall creatures early and just overran him. Throughout this he was making comments about the game, but I normally don't respond because I don't want to sound braggy and I don';t want to give information away to my opponent.
Game two was much closer, we exchanged some blows early, I stumbled on mana for a minute, and we ended up with a board state late game where he had a ton of creatures and I had a Valakut Invoker and a Vestige of Emrakul. We were both top-decking and both had more mana than we could use. He got some removal and for some reason threw it at my harmless vesitge rather than the Invoker. I proceed to use the Invoker along with some other non-obvious plays over the course of about 6 or 7 more turns to deplete his field and finally swing in for the kill. It took more than just the Invoker to win the game, but I certainly wouldn't have been able to win without it.
He proceeds to go on a tirade about how frustrated he is, how annoying it was that he never drew whatever he was hoping to draw, and how i "didn't even play that well" and was "a top-decking lucksack." Yeah buddy, because I'm the one that killed a dumb 3/4 rather than the thing that bolts every turn on a stalled board state. All I responded with was "cool."
I wasn't a player in this story, but I did witness it.
I was playing in the Foiled Again side event at Grand Prix Seattle. My round 3 opponent was a no-show, so I was watching the match next to me. A pretty relaxed guy (who had opened an Arid Mesa Expedition in his previous prize pack - good for him!) was playing against a girl in her 20s. The girl had played a couple of small creatures while the guy had some significantly better ones, like Woodland Wanderer. The guy had moved to combat and attacked with his creatures, and the girl cast Adverse Conditions. The guy kindly said something like "Tap effects work best if you play them before you let your opponent attack," before rewinding to the beginning of combat and tapping his creatures. The girl put the Adverse Conditions off to one side of her board, separate from her graveyard, and I ask which pile is supposed to be her graveyard. She responds by saying "I'm putting the spell off to one side, so that it can go to my graveyard at the end of the turn." The guy replies by saying, "Well, instants and sorceries actually go to the graveyard as soon as they resolve." The girl casts Kiora, Master of the Depths on her next turn, but she doesn't do much else before she loses.
After the game, she says "I think I'm just going to concede the next game, too. That wasn't very fun." The guy looks concerned and asks, "Why, what's wrong?"
"Well, you were kind of condescending to me."
The guy adopts a look of confusion and says, "Oh, I'm sorry. I honestly wasn't trying to be condescending. If you could maybe tell me what I did wrong..."
"No, don't worry, it's okay. You got your big win; that's all that matters."
Then she picked up her stuff right as her boyfriend came by to check on her, and they both walked away as she began to talk about how rude her opponent was to her.
Like, what? Are you sure you weren't just projecting a negative stereotype onto someone who did nothing wrong?
The guy was very courteous and friendly, and even expressed remorse when accused of uncouth behavior. And you're branding him as some overly serious, condescending, "no-fun-allowed" cliché Magic player? That's not fair to him, nor is it fair to Magic players as a whole.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I wasn't a player in this story, but I did witness it.
I was playing in the Foiled Again side event at Grand Prix Seattle. My round 3 opponent was a no-show, so I was watching the match next to me. A pretty relaxed guy (who had opened an Arid Mesa Expedition in his previous prize pack - good for him!) was playing against a girl in her 20s. The girl had played a couple of small creatures while the guy had some significantly better ones, like Woodland Wanderer. The guy had moved to combat and attacked with his creatures, and the girl cast Adverse Conditions. The guy kindly said something like "Tap effects work best if you play them before you let your opponent attack," before rewinding to the beginning of combat and tapping his creatures. The girl put the Adverse Conditions off to one side of her board, separate from her graveyard, and I ask which pile is supposed to be her graveyard. She responds by saying "I'm putting the spell off to one side, so that it can go to my graveyard at the end of the turn." The guy replies by saying, "Well, instants and sorceries actually go to the graveyard as soon as they resolve." The girl casts Kiora, Master of the Depths on her next turn, but she doesn't do much else before she loses.
After the game, she says "I think I'm just going to concede the next game, too. That wasn't very fun." The guy looks concerned and asks, "Why, what's wrong?"
"Well, you were kind of condescending to me."
The guy adopts a look of confusion and says, "Oh, I'm sorry. I honestly wasn't trying to be condescending. If you could maybe tell me what I did wrong..."
"No, don't worry, it's okay. You got your big win; that's all that matters."
Then she picked up her stuff right as her boyfriend came by to check on her, and they both walked away as she began to talk about how rude her opponent was to her.
Like, what? Are you sure you weren't just projecting a negative stereotype onto someone who did nothing wrong?
The guy was very courteous and friendly, and even expressed remorse when accused of uncouth behavior. And you're branding him as some overly serious, condescending, "no-fun-allowed" cliché Magic player? That's not fair to him, nor is it fair to Magic players as a whole.
Seems like an overreaction based on what you said. But that said, a lot of well-meaning guys tend to act very differently when playing against women, which can easily be interpreted as being condescending. It's a tricky situation. Would the guy have said the things he said if he was playing against a man? I mean, if I'm being honest, if I'm playing for stakes and my opponent doesn't properly use a tap effect before combat, I'll gladly let them waste their spell.
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Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
If there's someone who is clearly either new to the game or just doesn't understand what their cards do and it's not a high-stakes environment (and honestly, how often would that even happen in a high-stakes environment) then I'll normally try to help them learn/let them take it back regardless of if they are a man or a woman.
You have to learn by making mistakes, but it's not fun to lose by making mistakes like that. Once you're more experienced at the game you will be able to reflect on games, see decisions you made incorrectly, and learn from it. But when you're just starting out and your mistake is knowing what you want to do but simply not understanding how the phases of the game works, there's no reason for the more experienced play to not try to teach you that. If you take that as condescending, that seems kind of ridiculous. Th person is just trying to help you learn.
As with any minority in any group, women in magic are often slighted, but I feel like sometimes women will go into a magic event expecting to be slighted because of the fact that they are a woman, and thus see discrimination where it isn't actually present. I see this kind of behavior all the time with minorities in other aspects of life as well. Sure there are crappy people in the world, but not everybody is one.
Seems like an overreaction based on what you said. But that said, a lot of well-meaning guys tend to act very differently when playing against women, which can easily be interpreted as being condescending. It's a tricky situation. Would the guy have said the things he said if he was playing against a man? I mean, if I'm being honest, if I'm playing for stakes and my opponent doesn't properly use a tap effect before combat, I'll gladly let them waste their spell.
I have actually been the same way, VERY laid back, during this specific type of event, which is Foiled Again side event at GPs. It is essentially a $20 sealed 4-round swiss where each match the winner gets 2 packs and a random foil while the loser gets 1 pack. Very low stakes. There has been multiple times during these events where I "helped out" my opponent or allowed stuff to slide, gender no a factor.
The only time I ever had any kind of issue at one of these events was when the TO decided there would ALSO be prizes based on record. Last round me and another guy were 3-0 and I wanted to split to go eat since it was 10PM and we would both get 9 packs at least. He wanted to play it out because he wanted 11 packs if he won (and 7 for the loser) and I did get salty. Literally all other 3-0 pairings split except us. I ended up winning and we went on our ways, but I dread to think what I would have been like if I had lost
Seems like an overreaction based on what you said. But that said, a lot of well-meaning guys tend to act very differently when playing against women, which can easily be interpreted as being condescending. It's a tricky situation. Would the guy have said the things he said if he was playing against a man? I mean, if I'm being honest, if I'm playing for stakes and my opponent doesn't properly use a tap effect before combat, I'll gladly let them waste their spell.
I think the guy would have said the same things to a male, assuming said male is equally unfamiliar with tap effects and spell resolution. He wasn't being condescending toward her as a woman; he was cutting her slack as a newer player. That's my take on it, anyway.
I think her reaction would have been even worse if he hadn't let her use the Adverse Conditions properly.
"Well, you let me attack before you cast your Adverse Conditions, so they're still hitting you for damage."
Instead of just implying that he's an overly serious, "win at all costs" player, she probably would have accused him of it outright.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Honestly, if the guy had done the same thing with me when I was in my 20's I would have read it as condescending too (I am a guy). It may have been fully unintentional, but unless there was an obvious indication that I (or her in this case) was in fact new to the game and needed to be treated with kid-gloves I would have been insulted. By following it up with other comments (one from outside the game) it could have amplified the feeling. Just because I made a dumb rookie mistake like that doesn't mean I don't actually know better. Sometimes my head is just not as in the game as it should be. I don't need the turn to be rewound, just call me on it politely and I will own my dumb move. I get he was trying to be nice, but it can come off as being talked down to.
Now, if we were chatting before game and I had said that I hadn't played in a few years, or that I was relatively new to the game then what he did and offering to roll back the phase would have been a nice thing to do and I would be appreciative. Keep in mind, the only thing that has changed in the situation is my experience and what my opponent knows about me. What he said, and perhaps his tone of voice even, is the same in both situations. Context provides a lot of color in our interactions. That's reality.
I wasn't there, so I am just guessing and putting myself in her place. There is certainly a high potential for genuine condescension and *****ty attitudes towards women at a big event (based on first hand accounts of such I have read), so when someone seems to fulfill those expectations it can be misunderstood.
I wasn't there, so I am just guessing and putting myself in her place. There is certainly a high potential for genuine condescension and *****ty attitudes towards women at a big event (based on first hand accounts of such I have read), so when someone seems to fulfill those expectations it can be misunderstood.
Yup. This is exactly the problem. You never know if they were being cocky or not. Based on the girls response, I would argue she was just salty that she got corrected. Some people hate getting corrected. I can relate.
I once played a guy who thought this one card (I forgot the name of it) that normally let you play off the top of the library allowed you to play those cards for free. When I told him that is not how it worked, he called over a judge (fair), and when the judge said that was the case, I offered to just let the game carry on as normal (he was doing it for free earlier as I didn't read the card, he did, because it was super casual that night, as this was a draft before a pre-release, and of 6 people.) Instead of accepting my offer, he goes and not only sideboards out that card, but about 20 other cards, because he said the "synergy was ruined." This took forever and our game went into 5 turn. When the fifth turn was done, he had the gull to tell the judge it was a tie, because he had more life in that match and I won the previous match. I let things slide, but not when you try to weasle your way into not losing. I explained to the shop owner that he had ended in the middle of the game prior to this to change cards, despite my offer to continue as normal. The store owner chalked this up as a concede on his part, so I got the victory.
"Now wait," you say, "he was upset he lost, not that you corrected him." I'm getting there right now.
I got the pleasure of sitting next to him (same table) for the next game. Believe it or not this kid not only put the card back in his god forsaken deck, but he furthermore tried saying he could cast the cards for free. I leaned over and explained that this wasn't the case of the card. I didn't want to embarass the kid who make him look like a prick'ly bush so I didn't tell him anything other than the card doesn't work that way. This kid, I kid you not, ends the game and says he needs to sideboard now (what BS). I was so happy when his opponent said he was not ok with that and called a judge over, because the kid immediately just packed up his stuff and left.
I think I got one from a few days ago. It's probably the first time I feel I was actively singled out by my opponent, as opposed to just facing a salty opponent or something.
I was in a Chaos draft and it was round 3. I was 0-1-1, having done what I usually do and sucking at draft. Got paired against this 2-0 guy. His deck was better then mine but not by that much or anything. I kinda wonder how he was 2-0? Anyways his girlfriend started talking to me at the beginning of the round which I can tell pissed off my opponent a bit. Now I should say that I was 15 years old (now I'm 16) and look it, however everyone else there was at least 5 or so years older then me. I could tell his girlfriend was talking to me because she thought it was cool that a younger person was playing magic or something. This felt a tad condescending and I'm not 100% what made me "young" in this situation but i didn't mind so much as it was positive attention and plus she was only a few years older then me herself. Anyways we played and I kicked his ass the first round. He got really salty about it and started getting on my case about how I was a stupid 15 year old or whatever. At first I took the ridding but he went on and on, starting to make personal attacks. I realize I didn't wanna take this so I started yelling back at him, insulting him as well. We started insulting each other a bunch, making a bit of a scene. Game 2 started and he made a big deal about me taking a while to decide if I wanted to keep, even though I had a borderline hand and I had only been deciding for 10 seconds or so. I sadly cracked under the pressure and kept a subuptimical hand and promptly lost. We had another yelling match and the store owner yelled at ME to shut up. My opponent rubbed it in my face and then the store owner put him in his place a bit saying he'd kick either of us out if we kept up. Round 3 was really close but he won as he top decked basically the one card that could kill me. I mumbled "I hope you're happy now" and the store owner yelled at me to shut up. He then went on condescendingly about how this isn't how it works in the real world, etc. After he left I talked to the store owner about it politely, I said "hey just out of curiousity why'd you lash out at me not him cuz he started it?" He yelled at me back WELL YOU FED THE FIRE AND THIS ISNT WHAT YOU DO IN THE REAL WORLD AND YOULL LEARN ABOUT THIS WHEN YOURD OLDER etc. He said it wasn't just this time it was other times too he said I frequently do it when I come for modern. I may be competitive a bit at times I suppose, but it's never with mean intentions, and given that the vast majority of my opponents seem to enjoy playing me and are in a good enough mood to trade etc afterwards with me, I can't be doing it that much. Plus I've literally never been called out on doing that, not by the store owner or otherwise. I asked for specific examples and he hesistated before saying "umm I've seen you doing it before. Remember I'm the boss and what I say goes!" and some guy who I played in round 1 came over and agreed with the store owner saying yeah you were kinda mean to me then. I think he referred to when I wouldn't take a draw when there was 5 mins left in the round going into game 3 which was kinda dick-y in retrospect, but I wanted to go for the win since I figure it might be my only shot at it all draft (like I said before, I suck at drafting and my draft deck sucked), plus its nowhere on the level of this guy. I then broke down crying and no one cared. Yes I did overreact, yes I shoulda reacted differently, but holy **** was everyone rude about it. And that guy got no blame.
Wow. Where do you play at? I think I may know you personally if I remember correctly. Or maybe you just messaged me about Bogles?
Don't feel badly. Both of you were probably in the wrong. It's tough for me to say that you should try to ignore the opponent when they act like that, but you need to do that. That's the only way you really don't get a reaction out of him. It will make him even more mad. There are VERY few players that I know who are complete douches and when I play them, I basically say nothing outside of game actions, which sometimes I do twice. I feel badly because it kind of seems like they were picking on you too much, but if the other guy didn't start nothing, there would have been nothing.
*I know this is against the spirit of the thread, but I want to say that the players where I play are usually very good sports. Last SAM I drew horribly in Round 3 against Bogles and I was a bit salty. I don't make discouraging remarks, but I kept mentioning that I drew the 5 tapped lands out of 24 in my deck. Now I can reflect and realize that in the other 3 rounds, I drew very good as well as having good matchups. And here I was being so upset about drawing horribly in 1 round out of 4...
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
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I'm a little skeptical of this story, only because this one shop I go to has a lot of kids your age and I've seen it first hand. If your opponent is salty, just let it go. You feeding the fire and yelling back IS just as bad as him starting it, because by responding, you make the situation 3x worse.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the things you may have said didn't sound bad in your head, but that doesn't mean they aren't. You saying "I hope you are happy now" is a really condescending thing to say, even to a salty opponent. On top of that, while I have seen bigoted store owners, I have never heard one say "I am the boss so what I say goes" so it leads me to believe you are emotional in that situation and may have overdramatized it in your head.
To put this in perspective, I once sat next to my friend in a pre-release who was playing this really snobby kid. The kid was nice enough outside of a game, but inside a game was different. When he played my friend, he got really upset because "there was no way his deck should've lost to a deck like this." Aparantly, this wasn't anything new, because the person next to him told him to stop acting childish *again*.
Then, when I played this same kid the next match, again he seemed nice enough, but when he ended up winning, he pulled the whole "see, this is how my deck wins, I shouldn't have ever lost." then he asked how my deck was doing. I was 3-0 up until that point, and he was 1-2, and he said "how did a deck like yours do better than mine?"
When the store owner got involved, the kid thought he was being singled out, he said he didn't know what he was being "yelled at" about (the store owner was not yelling), but ultimately, he calmed himself and left the store after the event.
Ultimately, you've got to learn not to respond to people like this, and to think about what you're saying before you say it. When you told the story owner "he started it" it demonstrated to him the thought process you were stuck on, that because he started it you shouldn't be to blame. However, it doesn't matter who started it, who fed it, it only matters who's in it, and that's the most important part.
played against a guy that a lot of people were seeming to have a hard time with at a standard GPT on Saturday. sat beside his match round 1 and heard his opponent repeatedly tell him to speed his play up, as apparently "he was taking 2 minutes to fetch" and apparently taking a while to make simple decisions
I played against him round 3 and he didn't seem to be as bad but just didn't seem the brightest and kind of went off track a lot
I mean I guess going 3-1 or something like that can't make him bad, he just seemed to be sort of dim and took forever to make simple decisions
These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
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My best one, or worst, was at a ptq. I was running boros burn in standard against a jund walkers dexk. G1 close loss,g2 I won swimmingly, game 3 I had mountainx2 3 emmisary, madcap, boros charm. So t1 land pass, t2 I draw a sacred foundry, shock for tripple emmisary and madcap, t3 draw a madma jet, goes pretty smooth, swing for 9, double strike my madcapped emmisary for 14 total to his face and he throws his deck at me and leaves. I gather his cards and go to the head judge, who tells me if he doesn't return to collect them, then they were given to me by the witness of 3 judges and 7 other players watching the match. He never came back, and no o e was contacted about them, so I ended up with another deck.
As bad as it sounds, it's entirely possible that she got the votes because she is a girl. You may find it wrong as much as the rest of us, but it's a real scenario considering what kind of environment the gaming community can be.
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Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
She may have gotten votes because she had a blue Pikachu shirt and only one butt-cheek too. That she is a woman is certainly a possible reason she got votes, as are countless others. The only factor that was really relevant was the fact that she apparently had several friends present that tried to put her actions in context, as that was an objective fact stated by the poster. Yes, that the person's opponent is referred to as "she", so technically it is as much of a fact that the opponent was a woman. Wildnerul, however, never gave any indication that her gender was in anyway a factor. If it was indicated in some way that Wildnerul has not said, then yes you could make a reasonable assumption that the people at the shop doing the voting were sexist and patronizing, but that has not been stated. That is wild speculation that says more about the people making it than it does shed light on the situation. Why make the comment in the first place?
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Seeing as I made the original post I will clear things up a bit. The people coming over were mostly people who have kids some even had their kids playing next to them. These were not the kind of people who would just want to do something simply because the player is female. Sadly I nor any of my friends have ever played a game I would call friendly against her, spanning nearly a decade of magic playing at this point. I called them excuses because of the way they were being said, I don't believe any player should be allowed to "explode" especially at a real event. Shows bad precedence, especially for the younger players. Now we should probably get back to what this thread is about and not worry overtly about how often magic players are sexist.
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Commander tournaments seem counter-intuitive to me, but whatever. I don't think Opponent 1 should be filed under the "worst/rudest opponent category". Also, you shouldn't have to expect your opponents to scoop if they're in a bad position. I don't offer my hand to shake if it was a sour match and I wiped the floor with them--that's bad manners to me. However, there's an entire thread devoted to that topic buried somewhere in the forums so I won't elaborate here.
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This guy and a kid (they probably got paired together because they both went and didn't have partners, idk) were playing against us. The kid was running some underwhelming green thing and the guy was running Delver (of course). Upon attacking (and potentially dealing lethal damage), the kid waited until after blockers were declared (there were none declared) before casting Fog. The guy was all pissed and flustered and started getting hostile to the kid telling him he can't cast the Fog because no blockers were declared and therefore there's no 'time' for him to cast the spell because it isn't in response to anything (what?). I told him that he can cast it when no blockers are declared, and the guy got all mad and called for a judge.
When the judge (obviously) told him he could cast the Fog and prevent the damage, the guy got even more mad and decided to counter the kid's Fog (on his own team) shouting that they were going to lose anyway.
That same day, we got paired with another kid and a guy we had never met but the guy was nowhere to be found. After being forced to forfeit the first round due to his absence, the guy showed up last minute to the second round, drunk off his ass from the bar across the street. The guy was playing a mill deck, and the kid was playing R/W aggro, but was being very defensive. Their strategy won out, the guy ultimately milling us out with Increasing Confusions galore. During the game, however, the guy was unfamiliar with what LITERALLY EVERY CARD DID and was really rude and grabby with our cards. We didn't press the matter though, because the kid was already probably having a weird time with this stranger he too was probably paired with.
Overall it was a weird day with a lot of rude older gentleman getting paired with children.
Figured I'd give him a run for his money, he was pointing out how much money he spent on his 4x ojutai's and jaces before our match, I was already qualified for top 8 with a 3-0, this guy and 3 more were at 2-1-0 so even if I played his game and got a match loss I'd make it to the knockout stage. It was worth the risk, if you ask me.
We start shuffling and roll a dice to see who starts, I win the first die roll, he complains and says my dice is tricked and we should roll with his instead, I agree and we roll again, I win, this time for real.
At this point in time I start shuffling kinda slowly just to get on his nerves, we draw 7 and I see him reach for his box and pull out a jace, he was running the proxy card. So I just mull hard for despise down to 5, I keep, scry into a 2nd despise.
I play despise and knock out a jace, noticing the 2nd one on his hand. I draw my 2nd despise and knock it out too, At this point in time I say to him: "Hey, Isn't jace worth like 75 bucks?" He fell right for it, he starts ranting, bashing and even said "Yeah, that's roughly what your mother charges for a night".
Judge sends him packing and TO bans him from the store.
Later I found he was a yugioh player, the yugioh environment is super toxic down here, I've seen more than 1 match end in a fist fight and he was known as one of the more toxic players in that community, and that he was banned from most stores in the city so he decided to start playing MtG since he literally couldn't play yugioh anywhere.
Some kid, that was.
You're a terrible person, in an awesome way.
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
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Game one he never touched me, I hit with some landfall creatures early and just overran him. Throughout this he was making comments about the game, but I normally don't respond because I don't want to sound braggy and I don';t want to give information away to my opponent.
Game two was much closer, we exchanged some blows early, I stumbled on mana for a minute, and we ended up with a board state late game where he had a ton of creatures and I had a Valakut Invoker and a Vestige of Emrakul. We were both top-decking and both had more mana than we could use. He got some removal and for some reason threw it at my harmless vesitge rather than the Invoker. I proceed to use the Invoker along with some other non-obvious plays over the course of about 6 or 7 more turns to deplete his field and finally swing in for the kill. It took more than just the Invoker to win the game, but I certainly wouldn't have been able to win without it.
He proceeds to go on a tirade about how frustrated he is, how annoying it was that he never drew whatever he was hoping to draw, and how i "didn't even play that well" and was "a top-decking lucksack." Yeah buddy, because I'm the one that killed a dumb 3/4 rather than the thing that bolts every turn on a stalled board state. All I responded with was "cool."
I was playing in the Foiled Again side event at Grand Prix Seattle. My round 3 opponent was a no-show, so I was watching the match next to me. A pretty relaxed guy (who had opened an Arid Mesa Expedition in his previous prize pack - good for him!) was playing against a girl in her 20s. The girl had played a couple of small creatures while the guy had some significantly better ones, like Woodland Wanderer. The guy had moved to combat and attacked with his creatures, and the girl cast Adverse Conditions. The guy kindly said something like "Tap effects work best if you play them before you let your opponent attack," before rewinding to the beginning of combat and tapping his creatures. The girl put the Adverse Conditions off to one side of her board, separate from her graveyard, and I ask which pile is supposed to be her graveyard. She responds by saying "I'm putting the spell off to one side, so that it can go to my graveyard at the end of the turn." The guy replies by saying, "Well, instants and sorceries actually go to the graveyard as soon as they resolve." The girl casts Kiora, Master of the Depths on her next turn, but she doesn't do much else before she loses.
After the game, she says "I think I'm just going to concede the next game, too. That wasn't very fun." The guy looks concerned and asks, "Why, what's wrong?"
"Well, you were kind of condescending to me."
The guy adopts a look of confusion and says, "Oh, I'm sorry. I honestly wasn't trying to be condescending. If you could maybe tell me what I did wrong..."
"No, don't worry, it's okay. You got your big win; that's all that matters."
Then she picked up her stuff right as her boyfriend came by to check on her, and they both walked away as she began to talk about how rude her opponent was to her.
Like, what? Are you sure you weren't just projecting a negative stereotype onto someone who did nothing wrong?
The guy was very courteous and friendly, and even expressed remorse when accused of uncouth behavior. And you're branding him as some overly serious, condescending, "no-fun-allowed" cliché Magic player? That's not fair to him, nor is it fair to Magic players as a whole.
Seems like an overreaction based on what you said. But that said, a lot of well-meaning guys tend to act very differently when playing against women, which can easily be interpreted as being condescending. It's a tricky situation. Would the guy have said the things he said if he was playing against a man? I mean, if I'm being honest, if I'm playing for stakes and my opponent doesn't properly use a tap effect before combat, I'll gladly let them waste their spell.
You have to learn by making mistakes, but it's not fun to lose by making mistakes like that. Once you're more experienced at the game you will be able to reflect on games, see decisions you made incorrectly, and learn from it. But when you're just starting out and your mistake is knowing what you want to do but simply not understanding how the phases of the game works, there's no reason for the more experienced play to not try to teach you that. If you take that as condescending, that seems kind of ridiculous. Th person is just trying to help you learn.
As with any minority in any group, women in magic are often slighted, but I feel like sometimes women will go into a magic event expecting to be slighted because of the fact that they are a woman, and thus see discrimination where it isn't actually present. I see this kind of behavior all the time with minorities in other aspects of life as well. Sure there are crappy people in the world, but not everybody is one.
I have actually been the same way, VERY laid back, during this specific type of event, which is Foiled Again side event at GPs. It is essentially a $20 sealed 4-round swiss where each match the winner gets 2 packs and a random foil while the loser gets 1 pack. Very low stakes. There has been multiple times during these events where I "helped out" my opponent or allowed stuff to slide, gender no a factor.
The only time I ever had any kind of issue at one of these events was when the TO decided there would ALSO be prizes based on record. Last round me and another guy were 3-0 and I wanted to split to go eat since it was 10PM and we would both get 9 packs at least. He wanted to play it out because he wanted 11 packs if he won (and 7 for the loser) and I did get salty. Literally all other 3-0 pairings split except us. I ended up winning and we went on our ways, but I dread to think what I would have been like if I had lost
I think the guy would have said the same things to a male, assuming said male is equally unfamiliar with tap effects and spell resolution. He wasn't being condescending toward her as a woman; he was cutting her slack as a newer player. That's my take on it, anyway.
I think her reaction would have been even worse if he hadn't let her use the Adverse Conditions properly.
"Well, you let me attack before you cast your Adverse Conditions, so they're still hitting you for damage."
Instead of just implying that he's an overly serious, "win at all costs" player, she probably would have accused him of it outright.
Now, if we were chatting before game and I had said that I hadn't played in a few years, or that I was relatively new to the game then what he did and offering to roll back the phase would have been a nice thing to do and I would be appreciative. Keep in mind, the only thing that has changed in the situation is my experience and what my opponent knows about me. What he said, and perhaps his tone of voice even, is the same in both situations. Context provides a lot of color in our interactions. That's reality.
I wasn't there, so I am just guessing and putting myself in her place. There is certainly a high potential for genuine condescension and *****ty attitudes towards women at a big event (based on first hand accounts of such I have read), so when someone seems to fulfill those expectations it can be misunderstood.
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Yup. This is exactly the problem. You never know if they were being cocky or not. Based on the girls response, I would argue she was just salty that she got corrected. Some people hate getting corrected. I can relate.
I once played a guy who thought this one card (I forgot the name of it) that normally let you play off the top of the library allowed you to play those cards for free. When I told him that is not how it worked, he called over a judge (fair), and when the judge said that was the case, I offered to just let the game carry on as normal (he was doing it for free earlier as I didn't read the card, he did, because it was super casual that night, as this was a draft before a pre-release, and of 6 people.) Instead of accepting my offer, he goes and not only sideboards out that card, but about 20 other cards, because he said the "synergy was ruined." This took forever and our game went into 5 turn. When the fifth turn was done, he had the gull to tell the judge it was a tie, because he had more life in that match and I won the previous match. I let things slide, but not when you try to weasle your way into not losing. I explained to the shop owner that he had ended in the middle of the game prior to this to change cards, despite my offer to continue as normal. The store owner chalked this up as a concede on his part, so I got the victory.
"Now wait," you say, "he was upset he lost, not that you corrected him." I'm getting there right now.
I got the pleasure of sitting next to him (same table) for the next game. Believe it or not this kid not only put the card back in his god forsaken deck, but he furthermore tried saying he could cast the cards for free. I leaned over and explained that this wasn't the case of the card. I didn't want to embarass the kid who make him look like a prick'ly bush so I didn't tell him anything other than the card doesn't work that way. This kid, I kid you not, ends the game and says he needs to sideboard now (what BS). I was so happy when his opponent said he was not ok with that and called a judge over, because the kid immediately just packed up his stuff and left.
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I was in a Chaos draft and it was round 3. I was 0-1-1, having done what I usually do and sucking at draft. Got paired against this 2-0 guy. His deck was better then mine but not by that much or anything. I kinda wonder how he was 2-0? Anyways his girlfriend started talking to me at the beginning of the round which I can tell pissed off my opponent a bit. Now I should say that I was 15 years old (now I'm 16) and look it, however everyone else there was at least 5 or so years older then me. I could tell his girlfriend was talking to me because she thought it was cool that a younger person was playing magic or something. This felt a tad condescending and I'm not 100% what made me "young" in this situation but i didn't mind so much as it was positive attention and plus she was only a few years older then me herself. Anyways we played and I kicked his ass the first round. He got really salty about it and started getting on my case about how I was a stupid 15 year old or whatever. At first I took the ridding but he went on and on, starting to make personal attacks. I realize I didn't wanna take this so I started yelling back at him, insulting him as well. We started insulting each other a bunch, making a bit of a scene. Game 2 started and he made a big deal about me taking a while to decide if I wanted to keep, even though I had a borderline hand and I had only been deciding for 10 seconds or so. I sadly cracked under the pressure and kept a subuptimical hand and promptly lost. We had another yelling match and the store owner yelled at ME to shut up. My opponent rubbed it in my face and then the store owner put him in his place a bit saying he'd kick either of us out if we kept up. Round 3 was really close but he won as he top decked basically the one card that could kill me. I mumbled "I hope you're happy now" and the store owner yelled at me to shut up. He then went on condescendingly about how this isn't how it works in the real world, etc. After he left I talked to the store owner about it politely, I said "hey just out of curiousity why'd you lash out at me not him cuz he started it?" He yelled at me back WELL YOU FED THE FIRE AND THIS ISNT WHAT YOU DO IN THE REAL WORLD AND YOULL LEARN ABOUT THIS WHEN YOURD OLDER etc. He said it wasn't just this time it was other times too he said I frequently do it when I come for modern. I may be competitive a bit at times I suppose, but it's never with mean intentions, and given that the vast majority of my opponents seem to enjoy playing me and are in a good enough mood to trade etc afterwards with me, I can't be doing it that much. Plus I've literally never been called out on doing that, not by the store owner or otherwise. I asked for specific examples and he hesistated before saying "umm I've seen you doing it before. Remember I'm the boss and what I say goes!" and some guy who I played in round 1 came over and agreed with the store owner saying yeah you were kinda mean to me then. I think he referred to when I wouldn't take a draw when there was 5 mins left in the round going into game 3 which was kinda dick-y in retrospect, but I wanted to go for the win since I figure it might be my only shot at it all draft (like I said before, I suck at drafting and my draft deck sucked), plus its nowhere on the level of this guy. I then broke down crying and no one cared. Yes I did overreact, yes I shoulda reacted differently, but holy **** was everyone rude about it. And that guy got no blame.
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
Don't feel badly. Both of you were probably in the wrong. It's tough for me to say that you should try to ignore the opponent when they act like that, but you need to do that. That's the only way you really don't get a reaction out of him. It will make him even more mad. There are VERY few players that I know who are complete douches and when I play them, I basically say nothing outside of game actions, which sometimes I do twice. I feel badly because it kind of seems like they were picking on you too much, but if the other guy didn't start nothing, there would have been nothing.
*I know this is against the spirit of the thread, but I want to say that the players where I play are usually very good sports. Last SAM I drew horribly in Round 3 against Bogles and I was a bit salty. I don't make discouraging remarks, but I kept mentioning that I drew the 5 tapped lands out of 24 in my deck. Now I can reflect and realize that in the other 3 rounds, I drew very good as well as having good matchups. And here I was being so upset about drawing horribly in 1 round out of 4...
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the things you may have said didn't sound bad in your head, but that doesn't mean they aren't. You saying "I hope you are happy now" is a really condescending thing to say, even to a salty opponent. On top of that, while I have seen bigoted store owners, I have never heard one say "I am the boss so what I say goes" so it leads me to believe you are emotional in that situation and may have overdramatized it in your head.
To put this in perspective, I once sat next to my friend in a pre-release who was playing this really snobby kid. The kid was nice enough outside of a game, but inside a game was different. When he played my friend, he got really upset because "there was no way his deck should've lost to a deck like this." Aparantly, this wasn't anything new, because the person next to him told him to stop acting childish *again*.
Then, when I played this same kid the next match, again he seemed nice enough, but when he ended up winning, he pulled the whole "see, this is how my deck wins, I shouldn't have ever lost." then he asked how my deck was doing. I was 3-0 up until that point, and he was 1-2, and he said "how did a deck like yours do better than mine?"
When the store owner got involved, the kid thought he was being singled out, he said he didn't know what he was being "yelled at" about (the store owner was not yelling), but ultimately, he calmed himself and left the store after the event.
Ultimately, you've got to learn not to respond to people like this, and to think about what you're saying before you say it. When you told the story owner "he started it" it demonstrated to him the thought process you were stuck on, that because he started it you shouldn't be to blame. However, it doesn't matter who started it, who fed it, it only matters who's in it, and that's the most important part.
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StaffI played against him round 3 and he didn't seem to be as bad but just didn't seem the brightest and kind of went off track a lot
I mean I guess going 3-1 or something like that can't make him bad, he just seemed to be sort of dim and took forever to make simple decisions
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