Another screen cap of the miraculous 4-card Brainstorm
Blurry, but there is absolutely 4 cards there. I don't think he should be stripped of his invitational win, unless there is some evidence found of cheating at this particular event.
Hopefully something good will come of all of this.
I am pretty sure that rule exists in order to accommodate abilities that are triggered by card draws. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's meant to apply to the physical manner in which cards are drawn.
Of course, this doesn't explain away Alex's behavior.
That is likely blanketed, yes, but the rule also clearly exists to prevent cheating during drawing. It's not difficult for an individual who is skilled at draw manipulation to sneak extra cards by hiding them beneath other cards. As demonstrated in Bertoncini's epic Brainstorm, players should not be allowed to draw multiple cards off the top like he did (albeit, his four draw was a tad sloppy but worked). I watch players very carefully if they have a drawing style like that and make sure I keep track of number of cards.
Another screen cap of the miraculous 4-card Brainstorm
Blurry, but there is absolutely 4 cards there. I don't think he should be stripped of his invitational win, unless there is some evidence found of cheating at this particular event.
Hopefully something good will come of all of this.
I brought the image into Photoshop and smart sharpened it up so as to minimize the distortion and there is no question...4 cards.
This guy must really work hard at his sleight of hand because watching the videos, I didn't pick up anything. The speed alone at which he plays makes it difficult to follow.
Imagine if he worked that hard on actually improving his game.
He might win without having to resort to cheating.
Someone referred to the a draw-rule earlier. If you are to draw 3 cards you do three individual draws, and then replace a card and then again (brainstorm example).
In my taste judges are way too kind/lazy on players that dont clearly visualize what they are doing, which become way worse when they dont utter a word WHEN doing it. Facing even a pretty experienced player the cheaters only need add some speed to this and it just becomes too hard to see (often enough at least).
On regular REL this would be intimidating yes, but on competetive level this absolutely should be mandatory.
Cant jump on the first "offense" they see with game/match-loss, but judges should start evaluating how the player appears as a whole in his performance;
- neat field of permanents
- hand above edge of table
- placing hand down, cards in a fan - when doing stuff like forbidden alchemy
- gy and exile zone clear
etc etc
Judge doesnt need penalize players not holding a clear countable fan of hand-cards all the time, but he CAN defo penalize him if he in addition gives rude answers/comments when opponent ask about number of cards in hand 2-3 times over 6-7 turns.
Imo there is a HUGE gap between what rules we are expected to know and what the judges dont penalize of sloppy game rutines.
One other thing: ceiling camera(s) would probably do alot to keep cheaters in check. Dont need be many, nothing redicolous like one camera per match/table. Im PRETTY sure this wouldnt be stopped by surveillance-laws since its a tournament scene were talking about. Shouldnt be expensive either.
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- This is, honestly, a grotesque advantage.
Noah Weil on scouting, an attorney from Seattle with 20 Pro Tour appearances.
I brought the image into Photoshop and smart sharpened it up so as to minimize the distortion and there is no question...4 cards.
This guy must really work hard at his sleight of hand because watching the videos, I didn't pick up anything. The speed alone at which he plays makes it difficult to follow.
Imagine if he worked that hard on actually improving his game.
He might win without having to resort to cheating.
Slight of hand is magic is not hard when you have the training to do so.
Several years ago I used to perform magic tricks at parties and things like that so when I got into CCGs I already knew how to do things like a "false shuffle". The temptation to do so when you have the skill is a very strong one. I have admitted on this forum that I did cheat in one casual game because we had a player who was really spouting off and claimed that his deck was unbeatable. One false shuffle given "god hand" later and his head was still spinning I beat him so fast.
But this type of cheating I agree something should be done. Tournaments are about who the best player is, and slight of hand trickery and fast play to cover up double playing are not part of the game.
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The very fact this guy had the gal to do this crap on camera multiple times is what gets me. Takes big freaking balls. Unless it's just so ingrained in his head that it's the only way he can win or something, and it's become so second nature.
Alex Bertoncini's cheating reminds me of Mike Long's antics in a lot of ways. Only the critical difference is that Mike Long was actually a good player, so good that he was considered for the Hall of Fame even though it stirred up a lot of controversy. Bertoncini, on the other hand, doesn't have the same type of real skill to fall back on.
I just saw the Kira play and was just absoulutely shocked. How people didn't catch that and that he actually had the nerve to do that. Alex Long Bertoncini.
I'm going to play turboland on my next legacy tournament. I get to play with godly brainstorm which turns into ancestral recall, and a moment later it gains flashback.
I also find the best two drop ever printed. 2 explores is soooo good.
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If he has any character at all, he should accept the fact that he's been repeatedly caught cheating and back away from the scene.
Are you new to competitive MTG? "Character"? "Sportsmanship"? "Ethical Behavior"? Please.
Really, the fact is that with the lax rules enforcement and the $$ of the prizes on the line, high level competitive MTG players are practically incented to cheat. That level of play does not attract a personality type known for their ethical behavior. They care about winning, period.
Really, without bothersome ethics to get in the way, given the way things are set up, it's dumb not to cheat. It's really hard to get a lengthy ban for cheating, so if you can't win without cheating, you cheat, if you get caught, you lose the match you were going to lose anyway (no downside) and if you get away with it you can get thousands of $$ in prizes (all upside)
It's really hard to get a lengthy ban for cheating, so if you can't win without cheating, you cheat, if you get caught, you lose the match you were going to lose anyway (no downside) and if you get away with it you can get thousands of $$ in prizes (all upside)
Looks to be true as SCG is practically defending him on twitter.
Slight of hand is magic is not hard when you have the training to do so.
Yup.
If your opponent is good at cheating, it's very unlikely you will be able to catch them. The one exception is if you are an experienced cheater yourself or have experience at similar tricks, such as the aforementioned party magic.
The best judges are reformed cheaters. The worst judges are completely honest people.
I'm going to play turboland on my next legacy tournament. I get to play with godly brainstorm which turns into ancestral recall, and a moment later it gains flashback.
I'm surprised that no one has yet mocked up a Brainstorm with his face and certain minor changes to the text box.
StarCity did a giveaway today for $100 on their facebook page if you post what you'd spend it on. It was a clever way to cover up the posts hating on them and allowing Alex to cheat.
Since he was already planning on quitting magic, he probably doesn't care if he gets banned by the DCI or not. Hopefully he has to forfeit the $10k + power 9. That's probably his biggest concern atm.
You're right, he's got nothing to lose outside of the prize. However, all it takes is a potential job opportunity to Google him and it'll likely cost him a lot more than some P9.
StarCity did a giveaway today for $100 on their facebook page if you post what you'd spend it on. It was a clever way to cover up the posts hating on them and allowing Alex to cheat.
Someone posted 'I'm surprised Bertoncini didn't win this..' in the thread there.
I just saw the Kira play and was just absoulutely shocked. How people didn't catch that and that he actually had the nerve to do that. Alex Long Bertoncini.
Did you notice how on his "3rd" kira, when it died to scroll, he almost put it back in his hand, but realized that a 4th kira in a row would likely have been caught.
SCG said they reviewed the 4-card Brainstorm and said it was actually only 3 because of a shadow.
It seems like no one believes that, though.
Nobody believes it because further frames show an obvious, exposed 4th card. It appears AB tucked one of the cards, which got exposed as he got the hand closer to his body. He's obviously practiced it quite well.
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waoh i im shocked... the skill in those videos man! alex is wasting his life as a magic player he better of going to intern for mind freak or some other Hollywood magic show. Banning him from this game should be the best thing that ever happened to him.
Also i never knew what a caution was till i read the blog i be on the look out for people like that.
SCG said they reviewed the 4-card Brainstorm and said it was actually only 3 because of a shadow.
It seems like no one believes that, though.
Even more than that, everyone still seems to never notice when he does the first brainstorm he draws them one at a time clearly showing 3 cards. The brainstorm in question he just grabs a grip of cards. How many players do you know that change their play style mid game?
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Blurry, but there is absolutely 4 cards there. I don't think he should be stripped of his invitational win, unless there is some evidence found of cheating at this particular event.
Hopefully something good will come of all of this.
That is likely blanketed, yes, but the rule also clearly exists to prevent cheating during drawing. It's not difficult for an individual who is skilled at draw manipulation to sneak extra cards by hiding them beneath other cards. As demonstrated in Bertoncini's epic Brainstorm, players should not be allowed to draw multiple cards off the top like he did (albeit, his four draw was a tad sloppy but worked). I watch players very carefully if they have a drawing style like that and make sure I keep track of number of cards.
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I brought the image into Photoshop and smart sharpened it up so as to minimize the distortion and there is no question...4 cards.
This guy must really work hard at his sleight of hand because watching the videos, I didn't pick up anything. The speed alone at which he plays makes it difficult to follow.
Imagine if he worked that hard on actually improving his game.
He might win without having to resort to cheating.
In my taste judges are way too kind/lazy on players that dont clearly visualize what they are doing, which become way worse when they dont utter a word WHEN doing it. Facing even a pretty experienced player the cheaters only need add some speed to this and it just becomes too hard to see (often enough at least).
On regular REL this would be intimidating yes, but on competetive level this absolutely should be mandatory.
Cant jump on the first "offense" they see with game/match-loss, but judges should start evaluating how the player appears as a whole in his performance;
- neat field of permanents
- hand above edge of table
- placing hand down, cards in a fan - when doing stuff like forbidden alchemy
- gy and exile zone clear
etc etc
Judge doesnt need penalize players not holding a clear countable fan of hand-cards all the time, but he CAN defo penalize him if he in addition gives rude answers/comments when opponent ask about number of cards in hand 2-3 times over 6-7 turns.
Imo there is a HUGE gap between what rules we are expected to know and what the judges dont penalize of sloppy game rutines.
One other thing: ceiling camera(s) would probably do alot to keep cheaters in check. Dont need be many, nothing redicolous like one camera per match/table. Im PRETTY sure this wouldnt be stopped by surveillance-laws since its a tournament scene were talking about. Shouldnt be expensive either.
Noah Weil on scouting, an attorney from Seattle with 20 Pro Tour appearances.
Slight of hand is magic is not hard when you have the training to do so.
Several years ago I used to perform magic tricks at parties and things like that so when I got into CCGs I already knew how to do things like a "false shuffle". The temptation to do so when you have the skill is a very strong one. I have admitted on this forum that I did cheat in one casual game because we had a player who was really spouting off and claimed that his deck was unbeatable. One false shuffle given "god hand" later and his head was still spinning I beat him so fast.
But this type of cheating I agree something should be done. Tournaments are about who the best player is, and slight of hand trickery and fast play to cover up double playing are not part of the game.
There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
@amentalmisstep: Quitting magic next year. Looking for people who can help me get on track for a real job. Anyone?
Apparently he knows his time playing Magic will be coming to an end?
I also find the best two drop ever printed. 2 explores is soooo good.
Like anime? My AnimeList Profile: zero_99
You can find me on MODO ID: 07Ghost
Are you new to competitive MTG? "Character"? "Sportsmanship"? "Ethical Behavior"? Please.
Really, the fact is that with the lax rules enforcement and the $$ of the prizes on the line, high level competitive MTG players are practically incented to cheat. That level of play does not attract a personality type known for their ethical behavior. They care about winning, period.
Really, without bothersome ethics to get in the way, given the way things are set up, it's dumb not to cheat. It's really hard to get a lengthy ban for cheating, so if you can't win without cheating, you cheat, if you get caught, you lose the match you were going to lose anyway (no downside) and if you get away with it you can get thousands of $$ in prizes (all upside)
Looks to be true as SCG is practically defending him on twitter.
Yup.
If your opponent is good at cheating, it's very unlikely you will be able to catch them. The one exception is if you are an experienced cheater yourself or have experience at similar tricks, such as the aforementioned party magic.
The best judges are reformed cheaters. The worst judges are completely honest people.
I'm surprised that no one has yet mocked up a Brainstorm with his face and certain minor changes to the text box.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Someone already did on The Source:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22772-Alex-Bertoncini-s-serial-cheating.&p=607149&viewfull=1#post607149
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain
This is abhorrently inaccurate.
Two things to take out of this statement:
1. If I get a good ruling from a Judge who seems to know their stuff, s/he used to be a cheater.
2. I am an honest person and a judge, therefore I am one of the worst judges.
People should think before they post.
I'm talking specifically about the best and worst at catching cheaters. That was the context of my statement.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Someone posted 'I'm surprised Bertoncini didn't win this..' in the thread there.
It got deleted after about a dozen likes..
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Did you notice how on his "3rd" kira, when it died to scroll, he almost put it back in his hand, but realized that a 4th kira in a row would likely have been caught.
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Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
It seems like no one believes that, though.
Nobody believes it because further frames show an obvious, exposed 4th card. It appears AB tucked one of the cards, which got exposed as he got the hand closer to his body. He's obviously practiced it quite well.
Looking for a casual playgroup in the Greater Vancouver area? Send me a PM. Our playgroup is always looking for more people to terrorize
Also i never knew what a caution was till i read the blog i be on the look out for people like that.
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Even more than that, everyone still seems to never notice when he does the first brainstorm he draws them one at a time clearly showing 3 cards. The brainstorm in question he just grabs a grip of cards. How many players do you know that change their play style mid game?