I figured this would get moved out of Vintage so I put it here. I just wanted to come up with the best possible starting hand that would have the best chance of winning as early as possible while being very difficult to disrupt. Here is what I came up with:
1x Opalescence
1x Serra's Sanctum
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Leyline of Punishment
1x Leyline of the Void
Beats every first hand posted here.
BOLD statement for someone who doesn't understand that Chancellor of the Dross doesn't target. It also wins on upkeep.
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Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
why not take out the mad rush for his mana cost in deciples and win that turn, still disruptable since theres so many triggers, and as we have shown its not impossible to get 2 mana turn 1 at instant speed
Protean Hulk does not trigger if your opponent controls Leyline of the Void.
Banefire cannot target a player protected by Leyline of Sanctity.
If you are relying on 7x Chancellor of the Dross, the other player can not lose with as little as Elvish Spirit Guide + Healing Leaves, or win with any combo that wins on turn 0 (assuming it can be done with the Chancellor of the Dross triggers on the stack).
why not take out the mad rush for his mana cost in deciples and win that turn, still disruptable since theres so many triggers, and as we have shown its not impossible to get 2 mana turn 1 at instant speed
Pact of Negation doesn't count if it causes you to lose the game. it's not like you can ramp to 3UU before your first or second upkeep. Well, you could go "Island, black lotus, mox sapphire" in your first main phase, but that's still worse than just using FoW.
I think the best possible hand would be some way of squeezing enough mana during your opponent's upkeep that you can cast one of two copies of Flash in your hand, let it get countered, Extirpate out Force of Will, and then play the next Flash with impunity.
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
This has 1 less counter and a counterable finisher so it is more susceptible to counters than my original but this has the ability to destroy a Leyline of Sanctity before casting Tendrils. I feel like my original is better but this isn't too bad.
I believe there are probably about 1000 turn one winning hands but they require you to go first and have a main phase and/or attack phase. Before rotation, there were even a few in standard (such as Chancellor of the Forge, Tainted Strike, 4x Mutagenic Growth and Swamp). These certainly seem inferior to a hand that can win on the first upkeep regardless if you go first or second.
So let's take a look at the hands that can do this:
Slightly more venerable to normal disruption than the hulk hand, but is immune to leyline lockouts.
So you combo off with the Pact triggers on the stack? Because of the summon sickness this one almost requires you to go second or, if you go first, pass the turn after you combo.
This should usually win before the first upkeep.
Any other good ones?
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Boseiju comes into play tapped?
2x Second Sunrise
4x Ashnod's Coupon
So Pro I have an alpha Volcanic Island
Oh man....that would break my meta in half!
If you know an opening hand better than flash hulk's, then I'd like to be informed of it
1x Serra's Sanctum
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Leyline of Punishment
1x Leyline of the Void
Beats every first hand posted here.
You might want to re-read Protean Hulk...
BOLD statement for someone who doesn't understand that Chancellor of the Dross doesn't target. It also wins on upkeep.
why not take out the mad rush for his mana cost in deciples and win that turn, still disruptable since theres so many triggers, and as we have shown its not impossible to get 2 mana turn 1 at instant speed
3 Storm Crow
3 Chimney Imp
Banefire cannot target a player protected by Leyline of Sanctity.
If you are relying on 7x Chancellor of the Dross, the other player can not lose with as little as Elvish Spirit Guide + Healing Leaves, or win with any combo that wins on turn 0 (assuming it can be done with the Chancellor of the Dross triggers on the stack).
The Hulk combo is usually 3-4 Disciple of the Vault and a combination of Shifting Wall / Phyrexian Marauder for instant speed. At sorcery speed its usually a graveyard based combo with many triggers involving cards like Reveillark, and Body Double. Ive also seen Heart Sliver Winged Sliver and 2 Virulent Sliver.
Doesn't that only deal 8 poison?
3x Mindbreak Trap
Pact of Negation doesn't count if it causes you to lose the game. it's not like you can ramp to 3UU before your first or second upkeep. Well, you could go "Island, black lotus, mox sapphire" in your first main phase, but that's still worse than just using FoW.
I think the best possible hand would be some way of squeezing enough mana during your opponent's upkeep that you can cast one of two copies of Flash in your hand, let it get countered, Extirpate out Force of Will, and then play the next Flash with impunity.
Laboratory Maniac
Mishra's Workshop
Elvish Spirit Guide
Sol Ring
Leveler
Gitaxian Probe
Your deck from top down is:
This has 1 less counter and a counterable finisher so it is more susceptible to counters than my original but this has the ability to destroy a Leyline of Sanctity before casting Tendrils. I feel like my original is better but this isn't too bad.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
show and tell
hive mind
any pact
3 other random cards
Format: Standard - NPH
Location: 2011 MMS Qualifier - Minneapolis, MN (6/4)
Players: 99
Finished: 2nd Place
TRADE THREAD
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=347708
Dark Depths
Dark Ritual
Dark Ritual
Lightning Greaves
Vampire Hexmage
then another card
Sig by Rivenor at miraculous recovery and Avatar by Ace5301 at five handed lizard
EDH
Ghave
Phelddagrif
Omnath
Mountain
Rite of Flame
Rite of Flame
Rite of Flame
Rite of Flame
Dragonstorm
So let's take a look at the hands that can do this:
This hand cannot win vs. 3 counters (though the final spell cannot be countered) or Leyline of Sanctity.
This hand cannot win vs. 3 counters, Leyline of Sanctity or Leyline of the Void
This hand cannot win vs. 2 counters or 2 Leyline of Sanctity
I changed this one a bit so that it can win on the first upkeep. It cannot win vs. 1 counter or Leyline of Sanctity.
Awesome. Not what I was looking for (Vintage hands) but still awesome. Cannot win vs ... a Chancellor of the Dross, haha!
Nice find. It requires you have a main phase and an attack phase but it would certainly beat all of the previous hands!
I don't think we were looking for one. I just wanted to find the LEAST disruptable turn 0 win hand.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Black Lotus
Tinker (Pearl -> Stuffy Doll)
Guilty conscience
Pact of Negation
Pact of Negation
Leyline of Anticipation
Slightly more venerable to normal disruption than the hulk hand, but is immune to leyline lockouts.
So you combo off with the Pact triggers on the stack? Because of the summon sickness this one almost requires you to go second or, if you go first, pass the turn after you combo.