It's more or less supply and demand. However, there actually is a theoretical cap to the value of cards in a set while the set is in print, since ultimately all cards come from booster packs. So if a dealer cracks X number of INN boosters to get a Liliana into stock, there's (X-1) other rares/mythics going into circulation as well. This serves to control the price of those cards since the price of a booster pack is set by WotC.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
And had they not, then people would be moaning about how much she sucked and how WOTC doesn't want to give us playable PWs anymore since
Jace...
In this game they could make all rare booster packs lined in real gold, put them in boxes of Captain Crunch... yet people would still ***** about having to go to the grocery store to buy Magic. that's just how diverse the player base is. not everyone will be happy 100% of the time.
When you have to pay $200 to get a playset of a staple card people have a right to be unhappy.
Just because you can afford to play those cards or don't care about playing them doesn't mean other people are all in your same situation.
When you have to pay $200 to get a playset of a staple card people have a right to be unhappy.
Just because you can afford to play those cards or don't care about playing them doesn't mean other people are all in your same situation.
Get some perspective and respect people.
Nobody's forcing people to pay $50 ea for a card. You can play other decks or you can trade for them, etc.
Using the "I don't have money" card is a really bad excuse.
(NOTE: Do I have 4 Liliana and 4 Snapcaster Mage? No, I don't play a whole lot of Standard at the moment for various reasons. If I wanted to play Standard, could I play a deck without them that I think could win matches and that I'd have fun with? Absolutely.)
Nobody's forcing people to pay $50 ea for a card. You can play other decks or you can trade for them, etc.
Using the "I don't have money" card is a really bad excuse.
(NOTE: Do I have 4 Liliana and 4 Snapcaster Mage? No, I don't play a whole lot of Standard at the moment for various reasons. If I wanted to play Standard, could I play a deck without them that I think could win matches and that I'd have fun with? Absolutely.)
You're using the exact argument I addressed. Good for you that you don't want to play Liliana. Some people want to and don't have the money to. It's unfortunate for them. Why would you be so aggressive about it?
It isn't even close to true to argue that cheaper decks are just as good and I can't understand how you would spend so much time playing magic and not realize that.
Array Supply versus Array of Demands versus Array Rarity
Array Supply = players, dealers, wotc
Array of Demands = depends if you want to see things as microeconomy or macroeconomy. We have seasons flavors, season broken-nearly-banned cards, different types of touneys, card's future usage/exploit
Array Rarity = card rarity, availability
I wont provide a full detailed explanation because I cant see the need of it. Products are products.
And none of those cards expensive. Because WoTC printed them in greater supply. You just perfectly illustrated my point.
I didn't say WoTC printed ALL tournament worthy cards at Mythic rarity. I said they print tournament worth cards at mythic rarity.
You did say they print tournament cards only in upper raritys and were proven wrong. Yes they print some tournament worth cards at mythic, but most mythic arent tournament cards either.
And none of those cards expensive. Because WoTC printed them in greater supply. You just perfectly illustrated my point.
I didn't say WoTC printed ALL tournament worthy cards at Mythic rarity. I said they print tournament worth cards at mythic rarity.
They print tournament worthy cards at every rarity (which makes 100% sense and falls in line with what Maro said about mythics when they were first introduced). So if that was your point, then I dont see the issue.
If the complaint is that a few card prices are expensive ... well ... welcome to the world of competitive CCG gaming.
To focus on the actual topic of what the OP asked, card prices are determined by the shops and online sellers that sell the cards, as well as what the people are willing to buy said cards at. As long as people/shops are demanding sealed product (at least for the first 6 months of a new set) wizards will continue to supply the market with sealed boxes of the product. Wizards and the general demand for the product combine to create the supply of the product. Players who are looking for the cards and are willing to pay real money for them, combine to make up the demand pool for the cards. Thusly the supply/demand balance comes to be.
As for sealed set buying as someone else mentioned, if you want sealed sets for reasonably cheap, wait a month and a half from the paper release and youll be able to find plenty of people selling sets on mtgo at good prices potentially even cheaper than $150/set. If you arent willing to wait to get exactly what you want, then youll have to pay more, or in this case what the secondary market on ebay/online stores are willing to sell a full set for. Historically, those that are willing to wait, will nearly always save money. Those that have to have things NOW, will pay more, but get more use out of them (more time anyway), so its a tradeoff.
Anyone hoping that wizards will straight up sell complete sets and harm their current sales setup that has worked so well clearly dont understand how the business works.
EDIT: Direct quote from Valarin in a previous post: "Wizards can be blamed because the encourage competitive play and print competitive cards only in the upper rarities, thus limiting thier supply, which increases thier demand."
You're using the exact argument I addressed. Good for you that you don't want to play Liliana. Some people want to and don't have the money to. It's unfortunate for them. Why would you be so aggressive about it?
It isn't even close to true to argue that cheaper decks are just as good and I can't understand how you would spend so much time playing magic and not realize that.
Mono Red: It's a deck. It wins SCG opens. Tempered Steel: It's a deck, 2 in the top 8 at Indy, not a single card over $20.
Snapcaster Mage: It'll drop to about $20. It's a seriously good card
Also, number of Lilianas in the top 8 at Indy: 3.
Cards that will drop in price post-States:
Liliana
Snapcaster
Most expensive Innistrad cards (demand is far outstripping supply due to States atm)
Mono Red: It's a deck. It wins SCG opens. Tempered Steel: It's a deck, 2 in the top 8 at Indy, not a single card over $20.
Snapcaster Mage: It'll drop to about $20. It's a seriously good card
Also, number of Lilianas in the top 8 at Indy: 3.
Cards that will drop in price post-States:
Liliana
Snapcaster
Most expensive Innistrad cards (demand is far outstripping supply due to States atm)
Try again, please.
This post, so much. The idea that it is absolutely key to have all the 100$ cards to win is ridiculous. The kind of controlling decks that packed lilianas were the kind of decks that just plain did not do well at Indy. The only way wizards could drive down prices would be to never print good cards at mythic, and that just isn't good business strategy. They're smart enough to realize the tiny minority that might stop spending money because of the mythic rarity are hugely outweighed by all the packs cracked to open them. The same goes for complete sets. 150$ for a complete set means that wizards loses money, period. There are probable a dozen people at my FLGS who buy 3+ boxes in multiple languages at every new set release, plus cracking various packs later on. That would stop if they could spend the same amount of money and be guaranteed to get all the singles they wanted.
Liliana is the best planeswalker since JTMS, even garbage planeswalkers cost 15-20$. Liliana is going to be a constructed (standard) staple for all control decks and will probably stay at 40+
You did say they print tournament cards only in upper raritys and were proven wrong. Yes they print some tournament worth cards at mythic, but most mythic arent tournament cards either.
That's actually mathematically untrue. Searching on Gatherer, there are 210 Mythic rares, minus 15 per FTV set, since Gatherer is stupid and includes FTV sets, making 150, minus the Innistrad ones (since the format is too new to declare which cards are tournament worthy), making 135, minus 2 for each Commander deck, making 125. Of those, I count 68 that have seen play in a deck that made Top 8 of some tournament. If we include Innistrad, we have 140 Mythics and 71 of them have seen play in a Top 8 Constructed deck, the extra 3 being Liliana of the Veil in Solar Flare, Geist of Saint Traft in U/W Blade, and Mikaeus the Luminarch in Tempered Steel.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Old terminology reference:
Play (noun): Battlefield
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
Liliana is the best planeswalker since JTMS, even garbage planeswalkers cost 15-20$. Liliana is going to be a constructed (standard) staple for all control decks and will probably stay at 40+
Liliana's not even close to the same level as Jace. She should dip below 40 after States. I'd say she's better than Tezzy... slightly.
Liliana's not a card you can just throw into any deck of her color and instantly make the deck better. Keep this in mind. She still has to be built around.
Could you play Caw Blade over the first half of the year without JTMS and Stoneforge. Sure. Was it as good? No. Would it win consistently? No.
Did any other deck dominate as thoroughly in any recent time? No.
Yeah...you can play watered down versions and lose. If you don't mind that than it's fine. If you seriously wanted to play Standard the first half of this year you got 4 JTMS and 4 Stoneforge or you were outclassed.
Liliana will fall in price because it's not good enough to compete with the new go to card in Snapcaster. Early discard is great, but not compared to extra card options in your graveyard. It's a card that simply gets even stronger the longer the game goes on.
Get four Snapcaster Mages. That's Standard for the next two years. Anything else they put out it probably supporting that.
Anderson's Phantasmal deck? Play it without the Snapcaster's and see if it's any good or half as strong. It's ridiculous enough that it simply makes that deck competitive for the moment. Anytime you have cards that simply make a deck better by existing in a format is dangerous. Black Lotus anyone? Ancestral Recall? Sol Ring? Moxes?
Go count the number of Snapcaster's that were in the top 32 for last week at Indianapolis and get back to me with the argument that it'll drop from $25-$30.
I do agree that they are learning with Mythics. Otherwise they would have slapped Snapcaster at Mythic also. The sick argument now though is that it's only "rare" and selling for $25 or so. How many other cards in the new set are even breaking $10? Not many when I checked Starcity last night. Maybe five or six.
Liliana at $70 is pretty sick, but I'm thinking that'll drop like a rock.
Snapcaster will go up because you need it to play. I wouldn't be surprised if people use the new duals (Sulfur Falls I believe) to splash it for mono-red...just so you can recur burn and artifact destruction.
On the flip side...I don't think this has to do with WotC going...oops...mistake with JTMS at Mythic and it being too good, let's print this other bomb at normal rare level.
They're working two years out according to Rosewater and development. Which means that Innistrad was finishing up sometime in 2009 if I understand the way they process things correctly.
Thank god it's only rare. You might be able to afford a couple if you're on a budget and just want to play a few good cards here and there.
Supply and demand make it hard on the average player to acquire good bombs though. I think that's a bad thing overall. IMHO.
Could you play Caw Blade over the first half of the year without JTMS and Stoneforge. Sure. Was it as good? No. Would it win consistently? No.
Did any other deck dominate in any recent time? No.
Yeah...you can play watered down versions and lose. If you don't mind that than it's fine. If you seriously wanted to play Standard the first half of this year you got 4 JTMS and 4 Stoneforge or you were outclassed.
Liliana will fall in price because it's not good enough to compete with the new go to card in Snapcaster. Early discard is great, but not compared to free cards in your graveyard. It's a card that simply gets even stronger the longer the game goes on.
Get four Snapcaster Mages. That's Standard for the next two years. Anything else they put out it probably supporting that.
Anderson's Phantasmal deck? Play it without the Snapcaster's and see if it's any good or half as strong. It's ridiculous enough that it simply makes that deck competitive for the moment. Anytime you have cards that simply make a deck better by existing in a format is dangerous. Black Lotus anyone? Ancestral Recall? Sol Ring? Moxes?
Go count the number of Snapcaster's that were in the top 32 for last week at Indianapolis and get back to me with the argument that it'll drop from $25-$30.
I do agree that they are learning with Mythics. Otherwise they would have slapped Snapcaster at Mythic also. The sick argument now though is that it's only "rare" and selling for $25 or so. How many other cards in the new set are even breaking $10? Not many when I checked Starcity last night. Maybe five or six.
Liliana at $70 is pretty sick, but I'm thinking that'll drop like a rock.
Snapcaster will go up because you need it to play. I wouldn't be surprised if people use the new duals (Sulfur Falls I believe) to splash it for mono-red...just so you can recur burn and artifact destruction.
On the flip side...I don't think this has to do with WotC going...oops...mistake with JTMS at Mythic and it being too good, let's print this other bomb at normal rare level.
They're working two years out according to Rosewater and development. Which means that Innistrad was finishing up sometime in 2009 if I understand the way they process things correctly.
Thank god it's only rare. You might be able to afford a couple if you're on a budget and just want to play a few good cards here and there.
Supply and demand make it hard on the average player to acquire good bombs though. I think that's a bad thing overall. IMHO.
It being a rare is EXACTLY why it will drop. It won't drop too far, but it will drop a good $5-10. Keep in mind that it's Sealed PTQ season. There is going to be a LOT of Innistrad opened.
Could you play Caw Blade over the first half of the year without JTMS and Stoneforge. Sure. Was it as good? No. Would it win consistently? No.
Did any other deck dominate as thoroughly in any recent time? No.
Yeah...you can play watered down versions and lose. If you don't mind that than it's fine. If you seriously wanted to play Standard the first half of this year you got 4 JTMS and 4 Stoneforge or you were outclassed.
Liliana will fall in price because it's not good enough to compete with the new go to card in Snapcaster. Early discard is great, but not compared to free card options in your graveyard. It's a card that simply gets even stronger the longer the game goes on.
Get four Snapcaster Mages. That's Standard for the next two years. Anything else they put out it probably supporting that.
Anderson's Phantasmal deck? Play it without the Snapcaster's and see if it's any good or half as strong. It's ridiculous enough that it simply makes that deck competitive for the moment. Anytime you have cards that simply make a deck better by existing in a format is dangerous. Black Lotus anyone? Ancestral Recall? Sol Ring? Moxes?
Go count the number of Snapcaster's that were in the top 32 for last week at Indianapolis and get back to me with the argument that it'll drop from $25-$30.
I do agree that they are learning with Mythics. Otherwise they would have slapped Snapcaster at Mythic also. The sick argument now though is that it's only "rare" and selling for $25 or so. How many other cards in the new set are even breaking $10? Not many when I checked Starcity last night. Maybe five or six.
Liliana at $70 is pretty sick, but I'm thinking that'll drop like a rock.
Snapcaster will go up because you need it to play. I wouldn't be surprised if people use the new duals (Sulfur Falls I believe) to splash it for mono-red...just so you can recur burn and artifact destruction.
On the flip side...I don't think this has to do with WotC going...oops...mistake with JTMS at Mythic and it being too good, let's print this other bomb at normal rare level.
They're working two years out according to Rosewater and development. Which means that Innistrad was finishing up sometime in 2009 if I understand the way they process things correctly.
Thank god it's only rare. You might be able to afford a couple if you're on a budget and just want to play a few good cards here and there.
Supply and demand make it hard on the average player to acquire good bombs though. I think that's a bad thing overall. IMHO.
If I had to guess, I would say that Snapcaster is rare because, with the exception of Avalance Riders, every Invitational card has been rare, so they wanted to keep the trend going. I think they would have put it at Mythic otherwise.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Old terminology reference:
Play (noun): Battlefield
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
We have the 'Waaa, I cant afford them' crowd crying over prices of constructed playable cards. Tryingto get Wotc to have no rarity and printing all cards with the same print runs. Yeah that isnt going to happen, nor would it help the game at all.
Wotc doesnt deal in singles. They distribute packs and boxes. The players decide the prices by how much they will pay for a card. Its simple supply and demand economics.
Those asking for sealed sets being sold for $150 from Wotc, they have to keep the dealers happy. Wotc selling sealed sets directly to the players would hurt the dealers and the LGS's. Wotc wants MORE places to carry their product, not less.
I find it ammusing people ask for things that would be best for themselves, but fail to think what that would do to the markets or to others.
It being rare helps supply and demand some. They're still sold out of Snapcaster at most places I've checked. They'll get more in, sure, sure...but they'll raise the prices until it doesn't sell out. Even at rare I don't see it staying in stock (even with the extra number floating around).
Historical trends also show us that most Mythics sell for a pittance as well. So rarity doesn't affect price that differently between rare and mythic. You might simply get more players who get four of them, but you're still going to run out immediately and the price will go up accordingly.
If they get into a weird situation where Snapcaster sits around and isn't immediately out of stock...than maybe it'll drop. I don't see that happening though. The card is too good at the moment.
Liliana I see being available once the current high of the new set wears off. Also...Snapcaster is not just simply good in EVERY format. It's amazing in every format available to it right now.
That alone will jack it's price up because of Vintage and Legacy alone if nothing else.
That's supply and demand for you though. It simply works. I think it has many, many flaws though.
Professional baseball is a perfect example. So the Yankees got knocked out of the play-offs. They've only made post season sixteen of the last seventeen seasons. How much do they pay Jeter and A-Rod now?
As opposed to the Pirates and Orioles. Always awful. Always hopeless.
Trying to develop a league with parity? Who ISN'T happy for the Detroit Lions in football this year. If you aren't there is something seriously wrong with you...
Trying to have a game that is truly determined by skill rather than whether or not you can afford the best of everything? Why wouldn't you strive for that actively?
Liliana's not even close to the same level as Jace. She should dip below 40 after States. I'd say she's better than Tezzy... slightly.
Liliana's not a card you can just throw into any deck of her color and instantly make the deck better. Keep this in mind. She still has to be built around.
I don't think she is near that power level either but she is certainly closer than the other recent planeswalkers. She has to be built around but is good enough to be worth building around.
Wotc has almost complete control of card prices. They control them by the amount of a card they print. Goyf was printed once in a small third set as a rare. That is why he is so expensive. Other important and powerful cards like Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, Wild Nacatl, and Qasali Pridemage are very cheap for a variety of reasons. Some have been printed many times, some have been printed at lower rarities.
If tarmogoyf had been an uncommon it wouldn't be so expensive, if he had been in a different larger set he wouldn't be so expensive, and if wotc just reprinted him in a new set or other product he wouldn't be so expensive.
wotc controls card prices. I'm not blaming them for anything or villainize them but I don't understand how someone could think they are not the ones that hold that power.
edit: urafever makes a good point about Jace. Jace and Goyf are both from small sets that were not drafted for long. That's a huge factor in their price. Compare Goyf to Dark Confidant and look at the price discrepancy there. It would not be that way if Bob had been printed in Disension.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
When you have to pay $200 to get a playset of a staple card people have a right to be unhappy.
Just because you can afford to play those cards or don't care about playing them doesn't mean other people are all in your same situation.
Get some perspective and respect people.
Nobody's forcing people to pay $50 ea for a card. You can play other decks or you can trade for them, etc.
Using the "I don't have money" card is a really bad excuse.
(NOTE: Do I have 4 Liliana and 4 Snapcaster Mage? No, I don't play a whole lot of Standard at the moment for various reasons. If I wanted to play Standard, could I play a deck without them that I think could win matches and that I'd have fun with? Absolutely.)
EDH Decks:
RBG Kresh, the Bloodbraided RBG
GW Rhys, the Redeemed GW
Legacy:
RGW Enchantress RGW
You're using the exact argument I addressed. Good for you that you don't want to play Liliana. Some people want to and don't have the money to. It's unfortunate for them. Why would you be so aggressive about it?
It isn't even close to true to argue that cheaper decks are just as good and I can't understand how you would spend so much time playing magic and not realize that.
Array Supply = players, dealers, wotc
Array of Demands = depends if you want to see things as microeconomy or macroeconomy. We have seasons flavors, season broken-nearly-banned cards, different types of touneys, card's future usage/exploit
Array Rarity = card rarity, availability
I wont provide a full detailed explanation because I cant see the need of it. Products are products.
And none of those cards expensive. Because WoTC printed them in greater supply. You just perfectly illustrated my point.
I didn't say WoTC printed ALL tournament worthy cards at Mythic rarity. I said they print tournament worth cards at mythic rarity.
You did say they print tournament cards only in upper raritys and were proven wrong. Yes they print some tournament worth cards at mythic, but most mythic arent tournament cards either.
They print tournament worthy cards at every rarity (which makes 100% sense and falls in line with what Maro said about mythics when they were first introduced). So if that was your point, then I dont see the issue.
If the complaint is that a few card prices are expensive ... well ... welcome to the world of competitive CCG gaming.
To focus on the actual topic of what the OP asked, card prices are determined by the shops and online sellers that sell the cards, as well as what the people are willing to buy said cards at. As long as people/shops are demanding sealed product (at least for the first 6 months of a new set) wizards will continue to supply the market with sealed boxes of the product. Wizards and the general demand for the product combine to create the supply of the product. Players who are looking for the cards and are willing to pay real money for them, combine to make up the demand pool for the cards. Thusly the supply/demand balance comes to be.
As for sealed set buying as someone else mentioned, if you want sealed sets for reasonably cheap, wait a month and a half from the paper release and youll be able to find plenty of people selling sets on mtgo at good prices potentially even cheaper than $150/set. If you arent willing to wait to get exactly what you want, then youll have to pay more, or in this case what the secondary market on ebay/online stores are willing to sell a full set for. Historically, those that are willing to wait, will nearly always save money. Those that have to have things NOW, will pay more, but get more use out of them (more time anyway), so its a tradeoff.
Anyone hoping that wizards will straight up sell complete sets and harm their current sales setup that has worked so well clearly dont understand how the business works.
EDIT: Direct quote from Valarin in a previous post: "Wizards can be blamed because the encourage competitive play and print competitive cards only in the upper rarities, thus limiting thier supply, which increases thier demand."
Notice the mention of ONLY. Just saying.
Mono Red: It's a deck. It wins SCG opens. Tempered Steel: It's a deck, 2 in the top 8 at Indy, not a single card over $20.
Snapcaster Mage: It'll drop to about $20. It's a seriously good card
Also, number of Lilianas in the top 8 at Indy: 3.
Cards that will drop in price post-States:
Liliana
Snapcaster
Most expensive Innistrad cards (demand is far outstripping supply due to States atm)
Try again, please.
EDH Decks:
RBG Kresh, the Bloodbraided RBG
GW Rhys, the Redeemed GW
Legacy:
RGW Enchantress RGW
This post, so much. The idea that it is absolutely key to have all the 100$ cards to win is ridiculous. The kind of controlling decks that packed lilianas were the kind of decks that just plain did not do well at Indy. The only way wizards could drive down prices would be to never print good cards at mythic, and that just isn't good business strategy. They're smart enough to realize the tiny minority that might stop spending money because of the mythic rarity are hugely outweighed by all the packs cracked to open them. The same goes for complete sets. 150$ for a complete set means that wizards loses money, period. There are probable a dozen people at my FLGS who buy 3+ boxes in multiple languages at every new set release, plus cracking various packs later on. That would stop if they could spend the same amount of money and be guaranteed to get all the singles they wanted.
U/B Control
That's actually mathematically untrue. Searching on Gatherer, there are 210 Mythic rares, minus 15 per FTV set, since Gatherer is stupid and includes FTV sets, making 150, minus the Innistrad ones (since the format is too new to declare which cards are tournament worthy), making 135, minus 2 for each Commander deck, making 125. Of those, I count 68 that have seen play in a deck that made Top 8 of some tournament. If we include Innistrad, we have 140 Mythics and 71 of them have seen play in a Top 8 Constructed deck, the extra 3 being Liliana of the Veil in Solar Flare, Geist of Saint Traft in U/W Blade, and Mikaeus the Luminarch in Tempered Steel.
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
Fetchland: Arid Mesa
Shockland: Watery Grave
M10 Dual: Glacial Fortress
Liliana's not even close to the same level as Jace. She should dip below 40 after States. I'd say she's better than Tezzy... slightly.
Liliana's not a card you can just throw into any deck of her color and instantly make the deck better. Keep this in mind. She still has to be built around.
EDH Decks:
RBG Kresh, the Bloodbraided RBG
GW Rhys, the Redeemed GW
Legacy:
RGW Enchantress RGW
Did any other deck dominate as thoroughly in any recent time? No.
Yeah...you can play watered down versions and lose. If you don't mind that than it's fine. If you seriously wanted to play Standard the first half of this year you got 4 JTMS and 4 Stoneforge or you were outclassed.
Liliana will fall in price because it's not good enough to compete with the new go to card in Snapcaster. Early discard is great, but not compared to extra card options in your graveyard. It's a card that simply gets even stronger the longer the game goes on.
Get four Snapcaster Mages. That's Standard for the next two years. Anything else they put out it probably supporting that.
Anderson's Phantasmal deck? Play it without the Snapcaster's and see if it's any good or half as strong. It's ridiculous enough that it simply makes that deck competitive for the moment. Anytime you have cards that simply make a deck better by existing in a format is dangerous. Black Lotus anyone? Ancestral Recall? Sol Ring? Moxes?
Go count the number of Snapcaster's that were in the top 32 for last week at Indianapolis and get back to me with the argument that it'll drop from $25-$30.
I do agree that they are learning with Mythics. Otherwise they would have slapped Snapcaster at Mythic also. The sick argument now though is that it's only "rare" and selling for $25 or so. How many other cards in the new set are even breaking $10? Not many when I checked Starcity last night. Maybe five or six.
Liliana at $70 is pretty sick, but I'm thinking that'll drop like a rock.
Snapcaster will go up because you need it to play. I wouldn't be surprised if people use the new duals (Sulfur Falls I believe) to splash it for mono-red...just so you can recur burn and artifact destruction.
On the flip side...I don't think this has to do with WotC going...oops...mistake with JTMS at Mythic and it being too good, let's print this other bomb at normal rare level.
They're working two years out according to Rosewater and development. Which means that Innistrad was finishing up sometime in 2009 if I understand the way they process things correctly.
Thank god it's only rare. You might be able to afford a couple if you're on a budget and just want to play a few good cards here and there.
Supply and demand make it hard on the average player to acquire good bombs though. I think that's a bad thing overall. IMHO.
It being a rare is EXACTLY why it will drop. It won't drop too far, but it will drop a good $5-10. Keep in mind that it's Sealed PTQ season. There is going to be a LOT of Innistrad opened.
EDH Decks:
RBG Kresh, the Bloodbraided RBG
GW Rhys, the Redeemed GW
Legacy:
RGW Enchantress RGW
If I had to guess, I would say that Snapcaster is rare because, with the exception of Avalance Riders, every Invitational card has been rare, so they wanted to keep the trend going. I think they would have put it at Mythic otherwise.
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
Fetchland: Arid Mesa
Shockland: Watery Grave
M10 Dual: Glacial Fortress
We have the 'Waaa, I cant afford them' crowd crying over prices of constructed playable cards. Tryingto get Wotc to have no rarity and printing all cards with the same print runs. Yeah that isnt going to happen, nor would it help the game at all.
Wotc doesnt deal in singles. They distribute packs and boxes. The players decide the prices by how much they will pay for a card. Its simple supply and demand economics.
Those asking for sealed sets being sold for $150 from Wotc, they have to keep the dealers happy. Wotc selling sealed sets directly to the players would hurt the dealers and the LGS's. Wotc wants MORE places to carry their product, not less.
I find it ammusing people ask for things that would be best for themselves, but fail to think what that would do to the markets or to others.
Historical trends also show us that most Mythics sell for a pittance as well. So rarity doesn't affect price that differently between rare and mythic. You might simply get more players who get four of them, but you're still going to run out immediately and the price will go up accordingly.
If they get into a weird situation where Snapcaster sits around and isn't immediately out of stock...than maybe it'll drop. I don't see that happening though. The card is too good at the moment.
Liliana I see being available once the current high of the new set wears off. Also...Snapcaster is not just simply good in EVERY format. It's amazing in every format available to it right now.
That alone will jack it's price up because of Vintage and Legacy alone if nothing else.
That's supply and demand for you though. It simply works. I think it has many, many flaws though.
Professional baseball is a perfect example. So the Yankees got knocked out of the play-offs. They've only made post season sixteen of the last seventeen seasons. How much do they pay Jeter and A-Rod now?
As opposed to the Pirates and Orioles. Always awful. Always hopeless.
Trying to develop a league with parity? Who ISN'T happy for the Detroit Lions in football this year. If you aren't there is something seriously wrong with you...
Trying to have a game that is truly determined by skill rather than whether or not you can afford the best of everything? Why wouldn't you strive for that actively?
I don't think she is near that power level either but she is certainly closer than the other recent planeswalkers. She has to be built around but is good enough to be worth building around.
/Thread.
Too many players seem blind to this.
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.