Cards are only worth what people will pay for them, if you don't manage to trade X card for 40$ worth of stuff even though the stores are selling them for 40$ it's more likely the card ISN'T worth 40$ to most people. Stores give good price guidelines but don't freak out when you get significantly less for a card than stores sell them for.
Generally if you're trading for cards you need, "losing value" money wise isn't a bad thing as what is the alternative? Ebaying your card and getting market or under value, then having to pay shipping and ebay fees, then spending even more money buying the card you want + shipping? Selling your card to the LGS for half its value and buying the one you want for inflated value from the same LGS? People need to chill out there's a reason that cardboard does not have the liquidity that cold hard cash does.
While usually a good metric, straight up dollar value isn't always the best way.
I'm not going to trade my english Portal Three Kingdoms straight up for their Planeswalkers out of the current block. Sure, maybe ebay or a website will show them at exactly the same value... but the actual situation of the two cards is entirely different, what with one being in print and easily replaced at full cost, whereas if you wait a year or two and try to replace your Portal 3 cards, while a website might still list them at that price, they just might not be there to be had.
Thus, I'm going to want a premium on any trade like that, and I'd not question of a trading partner would do the same, were the situation reversed.
not a bad trade but a bad buy. I was in ebay browsing some sets. I bought a card that i thought it was x4 in quantity. Card arrived and it was 1x so I went to ebay right away and yeah, i bought 1x of a card for the same price of it's 4x value
You obviously acquired this Tarmogoyf for under 30 bucks somehow so you already profited. The way I look at it is if I pull... lets say a Tarmogoyf from a Future Sight pack, and I trade that Tarmogoyf for lets say... a Dark Confidant, worth the half the value. Would I had been happy if I had gotten a Dark Confidant for the price of a Future Sight pack? Absolutely. Now obviously i'm not trying to rationalize ripping yourself off but a profit is a profit.
Getting ripped off stinks. With that in mind, trading anything, not just cards, is tough when you need to know a lot of prices.
If you spend 10 bucks at Target for something that's 4 at Walmart, it was a bad trade too.
I think we would hope more magic players believe in a community of people who share and interest and would treat a like minded person with some respect but most of us aren't that great (I'm included in that).
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
Last night I traded 1 mutavault for 2 Koths. The other guy was aware of the value discrepancy but he really wanted the mutavault.
The question I get from this trade is, what about value added by desire?
Because the other guy was aware of the value discrepancy, and was presumabley comfortable with that, then it seems ok. I can relate, I've been chasing Brainstorms & Dazes for ages, and am fully prepared to trade down to get them. I'm happy to get what I'm chasing and the other party is presumably happy at trading up at least.
You obviously acquired this Tarmogoyf for under 30 bucks somehow so you already profited. The way I look at it is if I pull... lets say a Tarmogoyf from a Future Sight pack, and I trade that Tarmogoyf for lets say... a Dark Confidant, worth the half the value. Would I had been happy if I had gotten a Dark Confidant for the price of a Future Sight pack? Absolutely. Now obviously i'm not trying to rationalize ripping yourself off but a profit is a profit.
Thats a good point when considering one pack, but when you take into account the amount of packs you opened junk rares from before that tarmogoyf you under traded, the profit margin changes.
@OP: I have felt very ripped off but I only blame myself and have stayed informed since so lesson learned. I mean ripped of like $200+ on a mass rare sell, but I would have blew the money anyways so after realizing what I did a year later I felt bad (because I wanted to build for legacy) for like a month or two thinking about it I got over it, newer players shouldn't sell from previous collections without looking up values, I sold out of my bro's collection which he gave to me, I would have loved to have my 4 force of wills and other stuff I sold tho. Silver lining is i didn't put my 3 wastelands in that binder.
Now it seems that I get the better of trades at my local game store, because I know a lot of the cards worth around 5+ dollars so I pull those cards for deck building material or for good trades in the more competitive atmosphere and some people pull junk rares that are interesting from my binder. So I'll do 2 of those for the card I want and I get solemn simulacrum for $1.50. If people just want to rare trade instead of trading value I let them get 2 cards for 1 and we both end up happy, I don't intend to get over on people and will trade even fast but I'm not going to keep them from the .50 rares that they want if thats the case.
Right, cause that's TOTALLY outrageous Actually trusting someone not to be a thief? What kind of society do you think we live in?
There's a lot of people that do not feel they are being theives or doing anything wrong at all when they get a good deal. Not everyone subscribes to the same ethical guidelines when trading. And honestly, it's just not nearly as clear cut as some would like to believe.
Was ripped off by store owner at the age of 14; Birds of Paradise for a Skyship Weatherlight. I came back 3 years after and bought a Grim Tutor for 2$. The portal cards had been worthless earlier so he hadn't updated the prices. This was about 4 years ago though, so it was worth more than 2$ at the time ;D.
Not to be weird but where are you from? I heard that this recently happen to someone in my area. You don't have to say our could just pm me. It was the exact same scenario I just wanna know if it is in my area and if it its someone I now know to avoid
There's a lot of people that do not feel they are being theives or doing anything wrong at all when they get a good deal. Not everyone subscribes to the same ethical guidelines when trading. And honestly, it's just not nearly as clear cut as some would like to believe.
It's not clear cut by any means...
My:
3 Serra Avenger
His:
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
We go by Star City values.
Who wins?
Here's a hint... we both can. I'm concerned about getting money. My Avengers are worth $9, Chandra is worth $10.
He's concerned about value. His Chandra is worth $20. My Avengers are worth $24.
I once traded a poster I won in a raffle (that the owner of the store found in the basement and didn't bother looking it up) for a Dragonskull Summit and a couple of jank rares. I needed the Summit and the guy just opened a few packs and just gave me all the rares because he was mad he didn't get anything good.
So he went home and looked up the poster, it was worth $75 :o:o:o:o:o:o
Last night I traded 1 mutavault for 2 Koths. The other guy was aware of the value discrepancy but he really wanted the mutavault.
What value discrepancy? You both agreed it was fair. No damage done, no harm no foul.
There is a sale price discrepancy, but that's it.
Here's a bunch of other factors:
General availability (for example, at Gencon, with a dozen or so dealers, no one actually had for sale foil misty rainforests. So I had to go deep on a trade to get one)
Immediate Availability (pre-tournament comes with a premium - if it's the day before, you can't compare to online prices, and if it's on-site hours before, you can't even really compare to other local prices)
Print rarity (P3K vs Scars of Mirrodin)
Desire/usability (the cards you don't want to play with vs the cards you do)
Buylist price (which is not a raw percentage of sales)
And probably a bunch of others as well.
The notion that sale price is the only measure of value (even though we accept that these are subjective and indeed vary wildly between dealers) is ridiculous, and anyone who complains about getting ripped off really means either:
A) I didn't know what the sale prices were, but felt the trade was fine at the time, indicating I felt they were equal value
B) I choose to ignore the other values at play and focus solely on the sale price
The guy I traded a bonus SoFF to at a PTQ during deck registration gave me more than the sale price of the sword, knowing full well all sale prices involved. He was happy, he got to play the deck he wanted.
The guy I traded $205 of Standard rares to for a playset of Tarmogoyfs back when Goyfs were $50 each got a slight sales bonus but I obviously felt it was worth it.
The guy I got my foil misty from got two foil verdant catacombs for it, which by SCG prices at the time was $15 over. He got a great deal, sale-price wise, but I was happy and would do it again in a heartbeat.
I've traded off $15-$16 in 50c-$1 rares plenty of times for an $9-$10 card, and both parties felt very satisfied.
I've traded a $10 card into $15-$16 worth of bulk rares and both parties again were happy about it.
Outside of lying about or misrepresenting prices, which is immoral (lying is immoral), if both parties step up to the table and shake hands on a trade they felt there was equal value there, and no one got ripped off.
Value is subjective, completely and fully, without exception. If you disagree, I will trade for your power, duals, goyfs, and fetches with bulk rares at SCG sale prices all day. If you're unwilling to do this, realize that's because you understand subconsciously, if not consciously, that value is subjective and sale price is irrelevant.
Sometimes it's difficult when people are trying to pressure you. I remember this one guy constantly trying to get my Birds of Paradise and Sensei's Divining Top. It's quite bothersome.
It's nice to meet people who know (or at least claim to) the prices and worth of each card and try to make the trade fair.
Ripped off? Not really. I was extremely bugged that I could only get $40 for New Garruk, New Lilliana, and Grand Abolisher- and that's in store trade! I tried like 4 stores, and that's the best I got, so it's not too bad I suppose.
In another sense, I was bugged that ONE guy refused to cut at FNM last night. And he was the only person running a deck that I pretty much couldn't beat. And guess who I played in semi-finals? Ugh.
Ripped off? Not really. I was extremely bugged that I could only get $40 for New Garruk, New Lilliana, and Grand Abolisher- and that's in store trade! I tried like 4 stores, and that's the best I got, so it's not too bad I suppose.
In another sense, I was bugged that ONE guy refused to cut at FNM last night. And he was the only person running a deck that I pretty much couldn't beat. And guess who I played in semi-finals? Ugh.
How do you have a new Liliana when the set isn't out yet?
At separate points in my M:TG career, i've been a "value" trader and the noob who's been ripped off.
There's a ton of gray with trading. Objectives differ. Pricing differs. Needs, Wants, and Goals differ.
On one hand, we all have a duty to be good stewards of the game, so that the community grows and we don't lose our hobby - new players fuel the growth that gives us new sets and keeps the game fresh. I lost big time to a shark at the first pre-release I went to after getting back into the game after a long absence (losing out on 3 Elspeth, KE's) - it almost made me rethink continuing.
On the other hand, if you engage in commerce, you have a duty to know and understand the prices of not just goods you want, but goods you have to trade towards goods you want.
After getting ripped off, it forced me to evaluate card values for things I have, and things I want. It doesn't necessarily make you better at it, just more aware of what you have.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks in the hopper... Standard - R/G Aggro RG Standard - Book Burning UR Modern - U/W Tempo UW Legacy - Master of Affinity XX Vintage - Burnination RR
Sucks, I would have at least traded you 40 dollars worth of stuff for it. Trades are trades, If you don't look up the value of the card then it is your fault. It is not my responsibility to tell you the prices of your cards and it wasn't his either. I just traded a guy a Dismember and a ponder for his foil Dismember. He came back after an hour and said he looked it up and wanted to trade back. I told him there was no way, that the foil dismember was worth way more than what he was offering me. He looked pretty shocked. I didn't want to be a jerk, I even liked the guy. However, the mistake is on him not me. I knew my prices and I was hustling thats what I do. That is what all traders do. Expect it, Do it yourself. You learn from your mistakes and you will never make that mistake again.
Please don't lump me in with your kind. There are honest people out there and just because you're not one of them, it doesn't mean that everyone is like you.
hustling, scamming and otherwise trying to "get one over" on people damage the community, because someone is always the victim.
if you want a card, it has value. i have happily traded away money rares for sets of worthless uncommons just because they had value for me. in that scenario, i made an honest judgement, knowing exactly how much the cards were worth in the wider market... both parties were aware, and i was kind enough to give my friend the cards he was looking for, despite their higher rarity.
you could say i was just being nice but there's a wider implication..... i got something i wanted, my friend did too... we both got something out of the deal even though the "monetary value exchange" was lopsided.... we both felt the trade was fair because we were both pleased with what we got. trading isn't necessarily about the market value of cards.
trying to disguise the value of cards and hoodwink people is the lowest.... if you're honest with people, you're far more likely to be able to trade with other honest people and get deals which suit you (regardless of monetary value). being greedy and materialistic to the point of trickery won't get you very far in a game which relies on having people to play with - people who need to respect and even like you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I don't remember hearing about disguising value. Not informing people of the value of their cards or of what they want from you is not disguising value. I'm not going to say hey that dark confidant there is worth $40, so start pulling cards and I'll tell you when you get to $40. I took time out of my life to value every card in my trade binder and keep my values up to date, others can do the same if losing a few dollars matters so much to them. I'm not going to go back on a trade unless I feel generous, and what I call generous is having them throw in a different less valuable card i want from them with the trade back, in the real world a deal is a deal, it's an important life lesson. I have lost a lot more in card value in a single incident than I have made back collectively from making favorable trades, I learned my lesson, and people don't get over on me any more.
I don't remember hearing about disguising value. Not informing people of the value of their cards or of what they want from you is not disguising value. I'm not going to say hey that dark confidant there is worth $40, so start pulling cards and I'll tell you when you get to $40. I took time out of my life to value every card in my trade binder and keep my values up to date, others can do the same if losing a few dollars matters so much to them. I'm not going to go back on a trade unless I feel generous, and what I call generous is having them throw in a different less valuable card i want from them with the trade back, in the real world a deal is a deal, it's an important life lesson. I have lost a lot more in card value in a single incident than I have made back collectively from making favorable trades, I learned my lesson, and people don't get over on me any more.
yeah well you're exactly the kind of person i avoid when trading.
i like to be more conversational with my trades. it's not about pricing up each individual card and then telling someone it's their loss if they haven't done the same and lose out on a trade.
oh and for the record, duping someone on a trade by neglecting to tell them that their cards are worth a reasonable sum of money IS disguising value. it's deception, plain and simple.
why can't people just be honest and discuss trades on a level playing field? if people want to trade above or below value to get something they want, that's up to them, but at least let everyone know where they stand to begin with.
this idea that everyone's trying to get one over on everyone else all the time is sickening. trading is fun, it's social and it should strengthen the community. we're not all greedy 10 year olds.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
yeah well you're exactly the kind of person i avoid when trading.
i like to be more conversational with my trades. it's not about pricing up each individual card and then telling someone it's their loss if they haven't done the same and lose out on a trade.
oh and for the record, duping someone on a trade by neglecting to tell them that their cards are worth a reasonable sum of money IS disguising value. it's deception, plain and simple.
why can't people just be honest and discuss trades on a level playing field? if people want to trade above or below value to get something they want, that's up to them, but at least let everyone know where they stand to begin with.
this idea that everyone's trying to get one over on everyone else all the time is sickening. trading is fun, it's social and it should strengthen the community. we're not all greedy 10 year olds.
You shouldn't assume everyone trades solely for monetary value, if you want to trade your dark confidant for a sword of feast and famine I'm going to let you do it because the sword may be of more use to you as a standard player (if thats the case), but if I say well your confidant you don't ever use is worth about 15 more at the shops you will try to get more because you can no matter the play value you get from it. I didn't say I'd let you trade it for a trash rare, although after shortening my post it could have been taken as such, I'd atleast inform you that it is a good card and you should treat it as such, but I wouldn't put a figure on it. I'm not going to speak monetary value because it automatically becomes about monetary value whether they had originally thought in that way or not for the trade at hand, and for me as an ebay seller it is about money value. I traded 4 dollars of rares for 3 punishing fires one day recently because it was useful to me for the tournament at hand and the deck I was running and still run. I don't try to grossly get over on people. My average profit on a trade is about 10-15%, probably more if cash is involved but thats them throwing me the deal, otherwise I don't consider cash because I don't have enough of it to just buy stuff with. and if you don't want to trade with me because I'm not going to throw numbers at you automatically with every card we pull from each others binders so be it, if you ask I'm going to give you my best guess at what I'd be willing to value it at if I'm comfortable with that, but if I haven't seen it's value in a month I'm going to chop a couple dollars off due to possible fluctuation.
Let me throw another question into the mix here: what about immediate demand? What if I have a stock of standard staples that people need right before an FNM? Is it acceptable to trade them a $2 card for a $5 card, because they need that $5 card right now? Also, another piece of advice for traders. The one thing that is music to a shark's ears is "Oh my god, that card is so cool, I've needed that for like months." NEVER say that when trading, even if you do need it. Just play it cool, know your values, and you should do fine.
Generally if you're trading for cards you need, "losing value" money wise isn't a bad thing as what is the alternative? Ebaying your card and getting market or under value, then having to pay shipping and ebay fees, then spending even more money buying the card you want + shipping? Selling your card to the LGS for half its value and buying the one you want for inflated value from the same LGS? People need to chill out there's a reason that cardboard does not have the liquidity that cold hard cash does.
I'm not going to trade my english Portal Three Kingdoms straight up for their Planeswalkers out of the current block. Sure, maybe ebay or a website will show them at exactly the same value... but the actual situation of the two cards is entirely different, what with one being in print and easily replaced at full cost, whereas if you wait a year or two and try to replace your Portal 3 cards, while a website might still list them at that price, they just might not be there to be had.
Thus, I'm going to want a premium on any trade like that, and I'd not question of a trading partner would do the same, were the situation reversed.
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
If you spend 10 bucks at Target for something that's 4 at Walmart, it was a bad trade too.
I think we would hope more magic players believe in a community of people who share and interest and would treat a like minded person with some respect but most of us aren't that great (I'm included in that).
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=4832736
Trading 10 full art zen basics for 8 of yours!
I want
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
The question I get from this trade is, what about value added by desire?
R/ Nasticore
Because the other guy was aware of the value discrepancy, and was presumabley comfortable with that, then it seems ok. I can relate, I've been chasing Brainstorms & Dazes for ages, and am fully prepared to trade down to get them. I'm happy to get what I'm chasing and the other party is presumably happy at trading up at least.
Thats a good point when considering one pack, but when you take into account the amount of packs you opened junk rares from before that tarmogoyf you under traded, the profit margin changes.
@OP: I have felt very ripped off but I only blame myself and have stayed informed since so lesson learned. I mean ripped of like $200+ on a mass rare sell, but I would have blew the money anyways so after realizing what I did a year later I felt bad (because I wanted to build for legacy) for like a month or two thinking about it I got over it, newer players shouldn't sell from previous collections without looking up values, I sold out of my bro's collection which he gave to me, I would have loved to have my 4 force of wills and other stuff I sold tho. Silver lining is i didn't put my 3 wastelands in that binder.
Now it seems that I get the better of trades at my local game store, because I know a lot of the cards worth around 5+ dollars so I pull those cards for deck building material or for good trades in the more competitive atmosphere and some people pull junk rares that are interesting from my binder. So I'll do 2 of those for the card I want and I get solemn simulacrum for $1.50. If people just want to rare trade instead of trading value I let them get 2 cards for 1 and we both end up happy, I don't intend to get over on people and will trade even fast but I'm not going to keep them from the .50 rares that they want if thats the case.
There's a lot of people that do not feel they are being theives or doing anything wrong at all when they get a good deal. Not everyone subscribes to the same ethical guidelines when trading. And honestly, it's just not nearly as clear cut as some would like to believe.
It's not clear cut by any means...
My:
3 Serra Avenger
His:
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
We go by Star City values.
Who wins?
Here's a hint... we both can. I'm concerned about getting money. My Avengers are worth $9, Chandra is worth $10.
He's concerned about value. His Chandra is worth $20. My Avengers are worth $24.
So he went home and looked up the poster, it was worth $75 :o:o:o:o:o:o
Does that count?
download SCG app,
gettin ripped is normal in magic,you need to update for the prices
thanks to DNC of Heroes of the Plane Studios for the coolest sig
vintage-WBdark timesBW
legacy-BGRJund-51/60BGR
RBBob Sligh 48/60BR
GRone land belcherRG
URBTES-54/60URB
Fun deck-BBBBKobolds stormBBBB
What value discrepancy? You both agreed it was fair. No damage done, no harm no foul.
There is a sale price discrepancy, but that's it.
Here's a bunch of other factors:
General availability (for example, at Gencon, with a dozen or so dealers, no one actually had for sale foil misty rainforests. So I had to go deep on a trade to get one)
Immediate Availability (pre-tournament comes with a premium - if it's the day before, you can't compare to online prices, and if it's on-site hours before, you can't even really compare to other local prices)
Print rarity (P3K vs Scars of Mirrodin)
Desire/usability (the cards you don't want to play with vs the cards you do)
Buylist price (which is not a raw percentage of sales)
And probably a bunch of others as well.
The notion that sale price is the only measure of value (even though we accept that these are subjective and indeed vary wildly between dealers) is ridiculous, and anyone who complains about getting ripped off really means either:
A) I didn't know what the sale prices were, but felt the trade was fine at the time, indicating I felt they were equal value
B) I choose to ignore the other values at play and focus solely on the sale price
The guy I traded a bonus SoFF to at a PTQ during deck registration gave me more than the sale price of the sword, knowing full well all sale prices involved. He was happy, he got to play the deck he wanted.
The guy I traded $205 of Standard rares to for a playset of Tarmogoyfs back when Goyfs were $50 each got a slight sales bonus but I obviously felt it was worth it.
The guy I got my foil misty from got two foil verdant catacombs for it, which by SCG prices at the time was $15 over. He got a great deal, sale-price wise, but I was happy and would do it again in a heartbeat.
I've traded off $15-$16 in 50c-$1 rares plenty of times for an $9-$10 card, and both parties felt very satisfied.
I've traded a $10 card into $15-$16 worth of bulk rares and both parties again were happy about it.
Outside of lying about or misrepresenting prices, which is immoral (lying is immoral), if both parties step up to the table and shake hands on a trade they felt there was equal value there, and no one got ripped off.
Value is subjective, completely and fully, without exception. If you disagree, I will trade for your power, duals, goyfs, and fetches with bulk rares at SCG sale prices all day. If you're unwilling to do this, realize that's because you understand subconsciously, if not consciously, that value is subjective and sale price is irrelevant.
It's nice to meet people who know (or at least claim to) the prices and worth of each card and try to make the trade fair.
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
In another sense, I was bugged that ONE guy refused to cut at FNM last night. And he was the only person running a deck that I pretty much couldn't beat. And guess who I played in semi-finals? Ugh.
Join the Poetry Running Contest!
How do you have a new Liliana when the set isn't out yet?
There's a ton of gray with trading. Objectives differ. Pricing differs. Needs, Wants, and Goals differ.
On one hand, we all have a duty to be good stewards of the game, so that the community grows and we don't lose our hobby - new players fuel the growth that gives us new sets and keeps the game fresh. I lost big time to a shark at the first pre-release I went to after getting back into the game after a long absence (losing out on 3 Elspeth, KE's) - it almost made me rethink continuing.
On the other hand, if you engage in commerce, you have a duty to know and understand the prices of not just goods you want, but goods you have to trade towards goods you want.
After getting ripped off, it forced me to evaluate card values for things I have, and things I want. It doesn't necessarily make you better at it, just more aware of what you have.
Standard - R/G Aggro RG
Standard - Book Burning UR
Modern - U/W Tempo UW
Legacy - Master of Affinity XX
Vintage - Burnination RR
Find me on Modo under Tigerbreak
Please don't lump me in with your kind. There are honest people out there and just because you're not one of them, it doesn't mean that everyone is like you.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10507340#post10507340
Youtube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/MtgMcQuacks
hustling, scamming and otherwise trying to "get one over" on people damage the community, because someone is always the victim.
if you want a card, it has value. i have happily traded away money rares for sets of worthless uncommons just because they had value for me. in that scenario, i made an honest judgement, knowing exactly how much the cards were worth in the wider market... both parties were aware, and i was kind enough to give my friend the cards he was looking for, despite their higher rarity.
you could say i was just being nice but there's a wider implication..... i got something i wanted, my friend did too... we both got something out of the deal even though the "monetary value exchange" was lopsided.... we both felt the trade was fair because we were both pleased with what we got. trading isn't necessarily about the market value of cards.
trying to disguise the value of cards and hoodwink people is the lowest.... if you're honest with people, you're far more likely to be able to trade with other honest people and get deals which suit you (regardless of monetary value). being greedy and materialistic to the point of trickery won't get you very far in a game which relies on having people to play with - people who need to respect and even like you.
yeah well you're exactly the kind of person i avoid when trading.
i like to be more conversational with my trades. it's not about pricing up each individual card and then telling someone it's their loss if they haven't done the same and lose out on a trade.
oh and for the record, duping someone on a trade by neglecting to tell them that their cards are worth a reasonable sum of money IS disguising value. it's deception, plain and simple.
why can't people just be honest and discuss trades on a level playing field? if people want to trade above or below value to get something they want, that's up to them, but at least let everyone know where they stand to begin with.
this idea that everyone's trying to get one over on everyone else all the time is sickening. trading is fun, it's social and it should strengthen the community. we're not all greedy 10 year olds.
You shouldn't assume everyone trades solely for monetary value, if you want to trade your dark confidant for a sword of feast and famine I'm going to let you do it because the sword may be of more use to you as a standard player (if thats the case), but if I say well your confidant you don't ever use is worth about 15 more at the shops you will try to get more because you can no matter the play value you get from it. I didn't say I'd let you trade it for a trash rare, although after shortening my post it could have been taken as such, I'd atleast inform you that it is a good card and you should treat it as such, but I wouldn't put a figure on it. I'm not going to speak monetary value because it automatically becomes about monetary value whether they had originally thought in that way or not for the trade at hand, and for me as an ebay seller it is about money value. I traded 4 dollars of rares for 3 punishing fires one day recently because it was useful to me for the tournament at hand and the deck I was running and still run. I don't try to grossly get over on people. My average profit on a trade is about 10-15%, probably more if cash is involved but thats them throwing me the deal, otherwise I don't consider cash because I don't have enough of it to just buy stuff with. and if you don't want to trade with me because I'm not going to throw numbers at you automatically with every card we pull from each others binders so be it, if you ask I'm going to give you my best guess at what I'd be willing to value it at if I'm comfortable with that, but if I haven't seen it's value in a month I'm going to chop a couple dollars off due to possible fluctuation.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=341469