With the rapid decline of Vintage interest, and the reserved list preventing the reprinting of many key Vintage cards, is it time for WotC to consider making gold-bordered cards tournament legal?
Gold-bordered cards were created by WotC, making them "real" in a sense, even though they are currently nothing more than "offficial" proxies. Yes, the cards have different backs (and in the case of Collector's Edition, square-cut corners), but they are still the same thickness and dimensions as standard Magic cards, and who doesn't play tournament Magic (especially Vintage) without sleeves? Are players really good enough to be able to distinguish square-cut cards from standard ones while sleeved?
Making these cards tournament legal would infuse a small number of cards into the format without breaking the Reserved List. With Vintage currently on its death bed, why not at least try to give the format more life?
I bought a couple different world champ decks just for the sheer value of what came inside. Wolfgang Eder's deck comes with 4x Goblin Piledriver and 4x Bloodstained Mire ... If you paid the $20 price tag for each card that makes this deck worth over $160 for 8 of the cards inside of it... all for around $20. All I use it for is around my table though and inside of sleeves..I would love to be able to take it to a tournament though!!!
I doubt they ever will honestly. Those decks are really good for giving people an example of the big name tournament decks, without having to spend a ton of cash to see it in action. Great if you're planning to build something similar but want to playtest it first, and have nice proxies for your testing.
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Well I think the fact that the backs are different would preclude it from being used. All WOTC rarely, if ever, seeks to drive the secondary market prices up or down.
I'm quite sure that making gold-bordered cards tournament legal is not an option. In effect, it would be a... retroactive... violation of the Reprint Policy.
However, printing a more useful series of gold-bordered cards for use as Vintage and Legacy proxies, and then having more liberalized rules for tournaments using that type of card only as proxies, is possible in theory. Although I don't believe Wizards will do that either, at least that would avoid violating the Reprint Policy.
I'm quite sure that making gold-bordered cards tournament legal is not an option. In effect, it would be a... retroactive... violation of the Reprint Policy.
However, printing a more useful series of gold-bordered cards for use as Vintage and Legacy proxies, and then having more liberalized rules for tournaments using that type of card only as proxies, is possible in theory. Although I don't believe Wizards will do that either, at least that would avoid violating the Reprint Policy.
It wouldn't violate it, but is a bit of shady work around and would make some people upset.
I also doubt wizards would do this, I don't think wizards would ever want sleeves to be required for play and the square corners of the master edition cards would be clearly marked even through a sleeve.
Well, it is true that the Reprint Policy merely states that Wizards may not print new tournament-legal copies of cards on the Reserved List.
They may print copies that "are not intended for regular game play", such as gold-bordered cards or oversized cards.
If they make gold-bordered cards tournament legal, they will not be printing new tournament-legal copies of cards on the Reserved List, but they certainly will be creating them.
And since that changes gold-bordered cards into cards that are intended for regular game play, in a sense, the Reprint Policy, while it was not violated at the time the Collectors' Edition and the Worlds' decks were printed, now turns out to have been violated then - unknown to those who decided to print those cards then. That's where "retroactively" comes in.
Wouldn't this mean that you could use a clear sleeved deck with marked cards? That sounds dumb to me. Additionally, this would violate the reserve list in the same way that the "Premium" Loophole did. People would start declaring that, since they did this, they could just print another Non-Legal set and then retroactively make it legal. They will never, ever do this. In fact, far, far before they would make CE cards legal, they would just do away with the reserve list itself (which, will probably never happen none the less).
If that were the case, you could already use a clear sleeved (or no sleeved) deck with mark cards just by writing on the backs with a sharpie. No where do the rules say you have to use sleeves, only that cards cannot be marked. This does mean that if you have any old faded or worn out cards you are required to use sleeves. No real change here.
The square corners however would be very easy to see through even an opaque sleeve.
Should they make gold border cards legal? Yes. Aside from gold borders(can easily be painted black) and a different back they are legit magic cards and in a opaque sleeve you cant tell the difference.
Collectors edition cards, no. The square edges make them distinct from normal cards enough to be considered marked.
Un-related side note. People need to stop looking at these cards as a damn investment and let wizards reprint whatever the want with out throwing a goram fit over a piece of cardboard dropping in secondary value.
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It will never happen. The backs are different and a lot of sleeves are translucent.
If they make gold-bordered cards legal, they would obviously require opaque sleeves in order to use the gold-border cards. While tournament rules don't require sleeves, sleeves would be the only means to make gold bordered card not marked cards, and marked cards are illegal for play. Ergo, opaque sleeves would be required.
If they make gold-bordered cards legal, they would obviously require opaque sleeves in order to use the gold-border cards. While tournament rules don't require sleeves, sleeves would be the only means to make gold bordered card not marked cards, and marked cards are illegal for play. Ergo, opaque sleeves would be required.
Yeah but that's another "rule" they would have to enforce. It's just a lot easier to say "no gold boarders" than say "this back is okay, this one is okay, and this one is okay, but ony in these formats."
It would be just as easy to say "The backs of all of your cards must be indistinguishable from one another"
They already do this... If gold borders were made legal, they may have to make slight adjustments to the rules regarding marked cards but its no where near what you guys are making it out to be.
You act like someone can play a deck that is all mint condition, except one playset that is heavily played and worn, with no sleeves. Mixing cards conditions is basically the same thing as mixing in gold borders and either scenario requires you to play with sleeves.
If you practice with them enough, you can distinguish square corners from round ones pretty easily. I have some Collector's Edition in my Cube, and it's not a problem, as we don't spend hours trying to learn how to shuffle those cards where we want them to go.
Obviously, if Champs decks were legalized, they would have to be played in completely opaque sleeves, but I don't think it will happen anytime soon.
Un-related side note. People need to stop looking at these cards as a damn investment and let wizards reprint whatever the want with out throwing a goram fit over a piece of cardboard dropping in secondary value.
For people to "stop looking at these cards as an investment," Wizards has to stop marketing them as an investment.
The "solution" is Modern. Why would they continue with stop-gaps to prop up these other formats?
Hardly, modern is a unproven format and i and many others are not exactly high on the format idea. The real solution would be abolish the reserved list and reprint all the staple and highly used cards from eternal formats in a masters collection over many volumes if need be and release it as a non standard legal set.
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Gold-bordered cards were created by WotC, making them "real" in a sense, even though they are currently nothing more than "offficial" proxies. Yes, the cards have different backs (and in the case of Collector's Edition, square-cut corners), but they are still the same thickness and dimensions as standard Magic cards, and who doesn't play tournament Magic (especially Vintage) without sleeves? Are players really good enough to be able to distinguish square-cut cards from standard ones while sleeved?
Making these cards tournament legal would infuse a small number of cards into the format without breaking the Reserved List. With Vintage currently on its death bed, why not at least try to give the format more life?
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However, printing a more useful series of gold-bordered cards for use as Vintage and Legacy proxies, and then having more liberalized rules for tournaments using that type of card only as proxies, is possible in theory. Although I don't believe Wizards will do that either, at least that would avoid violating the Reprint Policy.
how would option 1 violate the policy? do tell.
I also doubt wizards would do this, I don't think wizards would ever want sleeves to be required for play and the square corners of the master edition cards would be clearly marked even through a sleeve.
RGStandard Gruul AggroRG
They may print copies that "are not intended for regular game play", such as gold-bordered cards or oversized cards.
If they make gold-bordered cards tournament legal, they will not be printing new tournament-legal copies of cards on the Reserved List, but they certainly will be creating them.
And since that changes gold-bordered cards into cards that are intended for regular game play, in a sense, the Reprint Policy, while it was not violated at the time the Collectors' Edition and the Worlds' decks were printed, now turns out to have been violated then - unknown to those who decided to print those cards then. That's where "retroactively" comes in.
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Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
The square corners however would be very easy to see through even an opaque sleeve.
RGStandard Gruul AggroRG
Collectors edition cards, no. The square edges make them distinct from normal cards enough to be considered marked.
Un-related side note. People need to stop looking at these cards as a damn investment and let wizards reprint whatever the want with out throwing a goram fit over a piece of cardboard dropping in secondary value.
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1994 Magic The Rack
Type 1: B/W Zombies
Modern: Kuldotha Red
Legacy: Pox, Oath
Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk
Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold
EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
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Yeah but that's another "rule" they would have to enforce. It's just a lot easier to say "no gold boarders" than say "this back is okay, this one is okay, and this one is okay, but ony in these formats."
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In fact, IIRC, Alpha cards used to not be tournament legal either until sleeves became the norm.
They already do this... If gold borders were made legal, they may have to make slight adjustments to the rules regarding marked cards but its no where near what you guys are making it out to be.
You act like someone can play a deck that is all mint condition, except one playset that is heavily played and worn, with no sleeves. Mixing cards conditions is basically the same thing as mixing in gold borders and either scenario requires you to play with sleeves.
RGStandard Gruul AggroRG
Obviously, if Champs decks were legalized, they would have to be played in completely opaque sleeves, but I don't think it will happen anytime soon.
For people to "stop looking at these cards as an investment," Wizards has to stop marketing them as an investment.
Id est, Wizards created the Reserve list.
If you shuffle enough with sleeves, the corners bend a little. There would be no bending with square-cut cards.
Hardly, modern is a unproven format and i and many others are not exactly high on the format idea. The real solution would be abolish the reserved list and reprint all the staple and highly used cards from eternal formats in a masters collection over many volumes if need be and release it as a non standard legal set.
Currently Playing
1994 Magic The Rack
Type 1: B/W Zombies
Modern: Kuldotha Red
Legacy: Pox, Oath
Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk
Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold
EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
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I really hope so, I've got a gold bordered Force of Will I'd like to be able to use.
I don't think they'd like to legalize them, but I can't think of a good reason for them not to now. Honestly, the problem I have with
Why is this one product with a nontraditional back work, but this other one doesn't? I don't think they can satisfactorily answer that question now.
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