I don't understand either one of them. They seem to make such little money and yet they do it full time.
Does Gerry Thompson play for like 8 hours a day or something? Even if somebody keeps on winning alot of events, you still have to factor in travel time and the amount of gas you've used or the plane ticket you've bought. Not only that but how about hotels? I really don't see how anybody can make a living out of this.
Alot of these points still go for writers as well. They have to be at the events. How much money do they make per year??
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Grinding on MODO=Playing many hours on MTGO (Usually Daily Events, and Usually 2-3 at once.) Earn many packs, sell them for tickets, paypal sell the tickets. Add in a little obvious speculating and you can get a nice pay boost on the side.
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Standard: Zombies, AntiTusk Vampires, BUG Graveyard, Bant Hexproof, UR Storm Delver Modern: Storm, Jund, Ghast Blaster, Elf Warriors Legacy: RUG Cascade, Imperial Painter, Affinity, Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, Pox, Dragon Stompie, Goblins, ANT, Belcher Classic: Delver, Dredge, Jacerater Draft: I will draft basically any format online (other than Masques) Pauper: MTGO's #1 most handsome Pauper Storm player
what are modo events and what do you mean by tickets?
Magic
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It's often used to incorrectly refer to MTGO.
Tickets are used as entry fees into certain types of competitions, a draft requires 2 ($2) + the packs, a contructed event requires 10 I think. You buy them directly from Wizards for a buck apiece.
People used to play a draft, win 8 boosters, sell 5 at $3 apiece(Cheaper than WOTC's store), and then ebay 100 of them for $90-$95.
Other people wrote automated trade bots, that would buy card X at say 5 tickets, then sell it for 10 tickets, and Ebay the tickets.
Still others, like myself, would draft, pull the foils as they came past if it wouldn't make you lose taking them, sell the regular cards you got in full sets, use the proceeds to pick up whatever foils you were missing, and ebay full foil sets for several hundred dollars (I got $450 for a full foil set of Odyssee). Sadly, Mythics made this an impossible approach. They're so rare, and sooooo expensive, that it's just not worth it to try anymore.
But it used to be possible to make a fair chunk of money on MTGO.
Despite what people have said, I still don't see how many people could live on just Magic. I mean, doing all that playing and selling on MTGO must take a lot of time, and even though $450 is a lot of money, if it took more than 10-15 hours of playing, organizing, and selling, then I don't see it as too viable a source of income. Plus, it's so variable. Sure there's a high skill component, but you might just lose a bunch, and then where does rent come from?
I think most pros probably understand they make a sacrifice in earning power to play the game they love. So, in short, is it possible to make a living playing Magic/writing? Sure, but probably on the order of $40,000-50,000/year. In other words, not so much in the grand scheme of things.
50.000 a year from a hobby is still a decent living.... (considoring the US Median is ~32k overall, or ~40k if you only count full-time)
And if you are good enough, you get appearence fees, sponsorships, articles... it can add up, they will never be rich like some sport pro's, but you can "live of" it if you are good enough...
On mtgo you can make $3-4 per hour playing daily events. If you double queue that means you can make about $6-8 an hour. This isn't great by U.S. standards, but it beats something like making cocaine in some forest in Brazil. Granted, you need an internet connection and a capable computer.
So, in short, you can make a living playing Magic if you care to dedicate yourself to it, but you won't make a very decent wage. I work at a Walgreens, and I make more per year than most Magic players.
Don't play Magic and hope it's your income, play Magic to have fun, and if you're really, really good, you can make some great side cash off it.
I see it as feasable. If you think there are people making $300-$500 a week working 40 hours at some job they hate. How hard would it be to live on $200-$400 a week doing something you love to do, or in other words your hobby? Add in writing and the 4 or 5 figure win once or twice a year, its possible. But there are only maybe a dozen or two dozen players doing it solely on MTG. Like others have mentioned some own game stores of some sort or other avenues of making money.
I wonder how many older magic players supplement their monies with playing poker durning the week?
They really don't. They're all semi-pros who can't afford a whole lot. Especially the StarCityGames grinders like Alex Bertoncini and Gerry Thompson. If you don't believe me, just add them on Facebook. Almost every week, they beg for a place to stay, because they don't want to shell out the money.
Poker is like Legacy when you're never mana screwed. The Ace of Spades is never going to get banned, and everyone shares the deck.
Like most playing card games if you play enough of it, you should be able to get good at it.
Of course online poker is taking some heat here in the U.S. lately.
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Well you also have to take into account that if you are a pro player that is level 8 you aren't paying for travel or hotel, You paid to show up and if you place or win a pro tour/gran prix you are making money. Not to mention that a lot of pro deal and sell cards/ grind modo. It just takes time to get to the higher levels where you're getting paid to play.
I want to add: Many have said that why don't you make money doing something you love to do, but note that once you are making money off Magic, Magic becomes your everyday job. It will be less fun, because instead of a hobby, you're counting on it to be your livelyhood.
Most of the comments in this thread have focused on pro or semi-pro players, but what about the other part of the OP, i.e., online writing? Does anyone know (or have a ballpark estimate) of what writers for SCG or ChannelFireball get paid?
Most of the comments in this thread have focused on pro or semi-pro players, but what about the other part of the OP, i.e., online writing? Does anyone know (or have a ballpark estimate) of what writers for SCG or ChannelFireball get paid?
Not enough, if anything at all.
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Despite what people have said, I still don't see how many people could live on just Magic.
Many don't. The % or players who make $$ off magic are a rounding error. It is complete and utter fools gold, and most MTG pros would make more money spending those hours flipping burgers.
It's just that the .000001% of MTG players that do make $$ off MTG get 99.99999% of the media coverage, so people think it must be pretty easy or common. The same thing with poker, 99.99999% of all pojer players lose money over the long term, but it's the .000001% that do make money that are in all the books and get the TV shows and get the facetime on the WSOP. It's called "media bias"
It will be less fun, because instead of a hobby, you're counting on it to be your livelyhood.
And even then, it's a pretty low annual wage, not to mention you are travelling all the time. Overall, it's a raw deal. Just like playing poker professionally. Go to any casino, wlak into the poker room, and look for the most haggard, miserable people at any table. Those are the people grinding away a living at poker. I grew up outside AC, knew a bunch of people who tried to grind out a living in the casino, and it was a sad, sad existence. So bad that the few who actually were able to pull it off were considered the unlucky ones, because they had doomed themselves to such a horrible existence.
And even then, it's a pretty low annual wage, not to mention you are travelling all the time. Overall, it's a raw deal. Just like playing poker professionally. Go to any casino, wlak into the poker room, and look for the most haggard, miserable people at any table. Those are the people grinding away a living at poker. I grew up outside AC, knew a bunch of people who tried to grind out a living in the casino, and it was a sad, sad existence. So bad that the few who actually were able to pull it off were considered the unlucky ones, because they had doomed themselves to such a horrible existence.
For every person that is grinding hours at the tables to exsist, There are people out there that have turned poker into their main income. They play 8-10 hours a day and get up and walk away from the table no matter if they are winning or losing. They play 4-5 days a week and have a life outside the casino.
So yes I agree there are some that are married to the game and have become these haggard miserable people, but there are others that have done it right.
For every person that is grinding hours at the tables to exsist, There are people out there that have turned poker into their main income. They play 8-10 hours a day and get up and walk away from the table no matter if they are winning or losing. They play 4-5 days a week and have a life outside the casino.
So yes I agree there are some that are married to the game and have become these haggard miserable people, but there are others that have done it right.
Thats a fantasy. A complete and utter fantasy.
The more accurate statement would be "for every high flying pro player who has banked millions on the game, there are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people who lose thier shirts every time they sit at a table due to variance being bigger than thier bankroll.
But when you turn on TV, you don't see those players. Media bias. Just like MTG. For every pro that makes a living, there are ten thousand+ people who try to make $$ off MTG and lose. But they don't write articles or get promoted on websites. Media bias.
I personally know one of the bigger name writers on SCG (Premium side) and if I recall correctly, he was on around 25-30k a year just for writing.
A: That's making money off writing, not playing MTG
B: 30K a year, after taxes, is about $500 a week. That's BARELY "move out of your parents basement" money. After rent, utlities, food, and other living expense, you could barely afford to play MTG
C: A decent writer should be making far more than 30K.
D: How many MTG players are there on the planet? So what % does this guy equal?
Once again, media bias. .00001% of players make $$ off MTG, but those are the ones writing about it, so it appears easy to do.
Keep in mind that no one except for WoTC employees makes money off magic for years on end. You don't start making a lot of money on the PT until you're Level 7 or Level 8, when you start getting big appearance fees and your travel paid for, and I don't think too many pros can sustain level 7 or 8 year after year. But it would a hell of a lot of fun to do for a couple years. It's not a permanent career, but spending a couple years in your early 20s playing the game and seeing the world, and making friends all over the world, would be a great experience.
Not really sustainable if you have a family to support. But if you don't have a family and you aren't burdened with debt (student loans, credit cards) and are in good health (or you live outside the USA where you don't have to worry about insurance), a single person can live quite comfortably on $20k a year. And if your travel is paid for and you have people to stay with wherever you go, it would be a fun thing to do. Would get wearisome after a few years, I would think, which is why you don't see pros with 10-year careers (i.e., Kai and Finkle aren't still actively playing, although both show up at PTs now and again).
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Does Gerry Thompson play for like 8 hours a day or something? Even if somebody keeps on winning alot of events, you still have to factor in travel time and the amount of gas you've used or the plane ticket you've bought. Not only that but how about hotels? I really don't see how anybody can make a living out of this.
Alot of these points still go for writers as well. They have to be at the events. How much money do they make per year??
Modern: Storm, Jund, Ghast Blaster, Elf Warriors
Legacy: RUG Cascade, Imperial Painter, Affinity, Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, Pox, Dragon Stompie, Goblins, ANT, Belcher
Classic: Delver, Dredge, Jacerater
Draft: I will draft basically any format online (other than Masques)
Pauper: MTGO's #1 most handsome Pauper Storm player
Yep.
I think LSV helps run the Channelfireball store.
Matt Sperling is a lawyer.
Gerry Thompson was grinding MODO events for tickets to resell before he leveled up in the SCG circuit.
Brian Kibler works in a game company.
Saito owns a game shop.
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
Modern: Storm, Jund, Ghast Blaster, Elf Warriors
Legacy: RUG Cascade, Imperial Painter, Affinity, Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, Pox, Dragon Stompie, Goblins, ANT, Belcher
Classic: Delver, Dredge, Jacerater
Draft: I will draft basically any format online (other than Masques)
Pauper: MTGO's #1 most handsome Pauper Storm player
Magic
Online
Digital
Objects
It's often used to incorrectly refer to MTGO.
Tickets are used as entry fees into certain types of competitions, a draft requires 2 ($2) + the packs, a contructed event requires 10 I think. You buy them directly from Wizards for a buck apiece.
People used to play a draft, win 8 boosters, sell 5 at $3 apiece(Cheaper than WOTC's store), and then ebay 100 of them for $90-$95.
Other people wrote automated trade bots, that would buy card X at say 5 tickets, then sell it for 10 tickets, and Ebay the tickets.
Still others, like myself, would draft, pull the foils as they came past if it wouldn't make you lose taking them, sell the regular cards you got in full sets, use the proceeds to pick up whatever foils you were missing, and ebay full foil sets for several hundred dollars (I got $450 for a full foil set of Odyssee). Sadly, Mythics made this an impossible approach. They're so rare, and sooooo expensive, that it's just not worth it to try anymore.
But it used to be possible to make a fair chunk of money on MTGO.
I think most pros probably understand they make a sacrifice in earning power to play the game they love. So, in short, is it possible to make a living playing Magic/writing? Sure, but probably on the order of $40,000-50,000/year. In other words, not so much in the grand scheme of things.
And if you are good enough, you get appearence fees, sponsorships, articles... it can add up, they will never be rich like some sport pro's, but you can "live of" it if you are good enough...
Don't play Magic and hope it's your income, play Magic to have fun, and if you're really, really good, you can make some great side cash off it.
I wonder how many older magic players supplement their monies with playing poker durning the week?
Like most playing card games if you play enough of it, you should be able to get good at it.
Of course online poker is taking some heat here in the U.S. lately.
Not enough, if anything at all.
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Many don't. The % or players who make $$ off magic are a rounding error. It is complete and utter fools gold, and most MTG pros would make more money spending those hours flipping burgers.
It's just that the .000001% of MTG players that do make $$ off MTG get 99.99999% of the media coverage, so people think it must be pretty easy or common. The same thing with poker, 99.99999% of all pojer players lose money over the long term, but it's the .000001% that do make money that are in all the books and get the TV shows and get the facetime on the WSOP. It's called "media bias"
And even then, it's a pretty low annual wage, not to mention you are travelling all the time. Overall, it's a raw deal. Just like playing poker professionally. Go to any casino, wlak into the poker room, and look for the most haggard, miserable people at any table. Those are the people grinding away a living at poker. I grew up outside AC, knew a bunch of people who tried to grind out a living in the casino, and it was a sad, sad existence. So bad that the few who actually were able to pull it off were considered the unlucky ones, because they had doomed themselves to such a horrible existence.
For every person that is grinding hours at the tables to exsist, There are people out there that have turned poker into their main income. They play 8-10 hours a day and get up and walk away from the table no matter if they are winning or losing. They play 4-5 days a week and have a life outside the casino.
So yes I agree there are some that are married to the game and have become these haggard miserable people, but there are others that have done it right.
Thats a fantasy. A complete and utter fantasy.
The more accurate statement would be "for every high flying pro player who has banked millions on the game, there are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people who lose thier shirts every time they sit at a table due to variance being bigger than thier bankroll.
But when you turn on TV, you don't see those players. Media bias. Just like MTG. For every pro that makes a living, there are ten thousand+ people who try to make $$ off MTG and lose. But they don't write articles or get promoted on websites. Media bias.
Wrong.
I personally know one of the bigger name writers on SCG (Premium side) and if I recall correctly, he was on around 25-30k a year just for writing.
My twitter account: @Kengy5
My blog about cube:
Slaughter Cry
A: That's making money off writing, not playing MTG
B: 30K a year, after taxes, is about $500 a week. That's BARELY "move out of your parents basement" money. After rent, utlities, food, and other living expense, you could barely afford to play MTG
C: A decent writer should be making far more than 30K.
D: How many MTG players are there on the planet? So what % does this guy equal?
Once again, media bias. .00001% of players make $$ off MTG, but those are the ones writing about it, so it appears easy to do.
Not really sustainable if you have a family to support. But if you don't have a family and you aren't burdened with debt (student loans, credit cards) and are in good health (or you live outside the USA where you don't have to worry about insurance), a single person can live quite comfortably on $20k a year. And if your travel is paid for and you have people to stay with wherever you go, it would be a fun thing to do. Would get wearisome after a few years, I would think, which is why you don't see pros with 10-year careers (i.e., Kai and Finkle aren't still actively playing, although both show up at PTs now and again).