"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
No, I don't think it poses a threat to magic, it's just diversity. As long as magic continues to be a good game, they can coexist.
I think that magic's greatest threat is itself. The only thing that will bring magic down, is bad planing and carelessness on the part of the powers that be.
That it has found every flaw in Magic, such as mana screw, mulligan for the perfect hand, and such and made it perfect.
Plus it's really competitive...
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"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
That it has found every flaw in Magic, such as mana screw, mulligan for the perfect hand, and such and made it perfect.
Plus it's really competitive...
To me it looked like it is just a copy of Magic in a lot of aspects, except that you start the game with these very Vanguard type cards and there's no mana screw. It didn't seem different enough to make me go "Wow! that's cool," and it definitely doesn't look like it has flavor as good as Magic's. Is it some sort of techno/sci-fi/fantasy blend or what? Additionally, a game is only competitive if its players are competitive. It is cool that they are doing all those free tournaments though.
The real killer for me is the price per pack, which is $4 for 13 cards. That's actually more expensive than Magic. I love trying out new card games but almost every single new game fails. I will try a game, but I won't throw large amounts of money at it until other people start playing it and enjoying it too. I'm to the point where I just wait for the game to die. Then if it was any good, I can pick up booster boxes for $10 - $20. At that price, I can build a massive collection and fuel an entire play group for $50 or so.
Maybe the Spoils will be amazing, but after reading the rulebook and looking at a very few sample cards, I just didn't get it and I wasn't really impressed.
I think I can safely say that Magic is currently the most popular trading card game in the world. VS. System is a good game, but it is nowhere near as popular as Magic. It also seems to be decreasing in popularity, and I have noticed a bit of a power creep in the cards (meaning that the newer cards get progressively more powerful, until the older ones become obsolete). I've kind of lost interest in VS. System. Yu-Gi-Oh I also predict will die within the next few years. I have played the World of Warcraft TCG with some proxy decks, and it looks fun, but nothing that can compete with Magic. I am mildly interested in this "The Spoils" game, but very mildly. Explain a bit about how it works, what the cards are like, what the setting is (fantasy, sci-fi, etc.). What kind of cards are in it, and what do they do? Explain the game a bit, don't just say "omg this can ruin magic!"
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Let's see...Magic has over 13'000 cards right? So let's see how many possible combinations there is
13000(factorial)=Almost Infinite.
Magic has already defined itself as the best TCG out there. Yu-Gi-Oh was hot a few years back, same with Pokemon, but they never really beat Magic out of it's league. With around 500 new cards a year, who can beat that? With a system that calculates your worldwide ranking and allows you to win up to 1 Million Dollars, who can beat that? Nothing I tell you...nothing. Give me another piece of cardboard card more expensive than a Mint Black Lotus, then I'll gladly burn my $200 Orzhov deck down.
Give me another piece of cardboard card more expensive than a Mint Black Lotus, then I'll gladly burn my $200 Orzhov deck down.
A First Edition Foil Charizard from Pokemon could sell for more than a Black Lotus during the early days of the Pokemon craze. Both cards were priced around $300 back then, if I remember correctly. Now, Charizard is probably considered underpowered for Pokemon. (I don't follow the game any more so I'm not sure, but I think they have had a huge power creep.)
In contrast, Black Lotus remains the single best mana acceleration card ever to be printed.
That might be a lesson to new game companies. Release your most powerful cards first. Then slowly decrease the power lever, rather than increase it. That way, old players have a vested interest in the game and their cards are still useful, rather than obsolete.
No offense card slinger, but you seem like a troll to me. Did you invent this game that's 'threatening' the king of all TCG's?
Many others have tried, no one has succeeded, MAgic will die on it's own when it's just too old for anyone to care.
Why are you making fun of me? I'm not a troll. And no I didn't invent The Spoils TCG, it was actually invented by a company known as Tenacious Games.
And yes I know that Magic is the king of all TCG's, I mean why wouldn't it be? It is the first of it's kind and it defined the TCG Genre.
Plus I love playing Magic, it's a great game. Many friends of mine at my hobby store play Magic and we get lots of Magic players every now and then, plus there's also a Time Spiral Draft Tournament which I plan on entering at my hobby store next weekend.
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"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Why are you making fun of me? I'm not a troll. And no I didn't invent The Spoils TCG, it was actually invented by a company known as Tenacious Games.
Hey, I was just pointing out the fact that you had made almost no posts on this board except one 'promoting' a new game. You even mentioned the people who make it (twice!!!). It seems to me that only someone in it for the publicity would do that.
Not sure If anyone has heard, but there's this new TCG out right now that could get rid of Magic: The Gathering as we know it permanently...
It's called The Spoils TCG, and it's made by Tenacious Games...
Does it pose as a really big threat towards this game like with the World of Warcraft TCG?
What are your thoughts?
I really dont think that any other new card games on the market are going to ever have as big of a following as Magic. Ive heard it a thousand times too, everytime a new TCG comes out..."Oh man VS is SOOO much better than MtG" "Lo5R ROCKS!!!"...
But also I remember a time, right around Urza's Destiny and all through Mercadian Block, when I heard this:
"OH MAN POKEMON IS SOOO AWESOME!!!!! MAGIC IS DEAD!!!!"
Where is Pokemon?
Where is Magic?
I dont think that this new game your talking about (which ive never even heard of) is oging to be able to make any dent in Magics huge fanbase. And I think I rest my case, with the above pokemon-analogy.
ninjaEDIT: hadnt thought of it but the guy could be promoting it, he does like mentioning the full name and company. If I had a new game Id put a plant on these boards to promote it too, thats grat marketing:p
Please, accept that Magic costs money to play, and drop it. A playset of Baneslayers>playset of duals. New Jace>Force of Will. Etc... Not to mention, Legacy is so wide open, that it's easy to build a deck that can perform reasonably well without very many "money staples" at all.
Honestly, card games can co-exist without being a threat to each other, alot of people will stick t oone or the other, and alot will play both. And a card game of magic's caliber, I would think, would be nearly impossible for a new game to take down.
The simple fact is Magic will never die to another TCG. The reasons are as follows:
Magic has been around a hell of a long time. This means that it has built up a huge loyal player base. People like myself will not even try another game because lets face it, why spend money on a game that will never be as wide spread or good as magic? Magic also has the best R&D teams by virtue of the amount of practice they have of making a balanced game. All another TCG has to do is slip up early and its more or less done for because people will notice how much more fun a balanced game like magic is.
Magic also has a deep rooted competive system. You can't wipe something like that out. With money at stake people will play and Magic pays out far more then anyother TCG so competive magic will countinue and with it the game due to the great things its already done including the players who joined R&D to help make the game better.
I can hardly see how magic can fall from anything, much less a TCG. Magic is rooted in many countries is still growing. Its hard to stop that kind of momentum.
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That's because it is him, according to their FAQ...
Q1) Why is Jon Finkel in your banner?
A1) Jon has been involved with Tenacious Games as an advisor since 2002. This year, he also became an investor in the company. His introductions, strategic advice and tactical input have been invaluable. Of course, being Jon, he's great at the game already too
As for the topic at hand, I don't see The Spoils putting an end to M:tG. Magic has a massive following now, as far as TCGs go. It has survived all the TV-show backed games that have come out and otherwise withstood the test of time. Frankly, I believe the only thing that could kill Magic at this point is a series of very poorly designed sets that not even casual players, who are the vast majority of all M:tG players, want to buy. Even if The Spoils does take off, I see the two games being able to co-exist, just as Magic currently co-exists with YGO, Pokemon, VS, DM, etc.
I've never heard of it at all so that's me converted, won't even google it to see what its about and I suppose that will be like the vast majority of mtg players, they might hear about it, play it once and then say 'meh'
By all means, continue to make completely ignorant statements. This is what bother me about magic players, despite being one myself. They act like magic the end all be all.
The people who think spoils is a copy of magic don't know what they are talking about. Does it borrow certian concepts from magic? Ofcourse. But the way combat is done makes combat in Spoils x10 more complicated than magic. The combat step in spoils (attacking in waves, more than just "first strike" and normal damage is much more exciting than it is in magic.
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By all means, continue to make completely ignorant statements. This is what bother me about magic players, despite being one myself. They act like magic the end all be all.
The people who think spoils is a copy of magic don't know what they are talking about. Does it borrow certian concepts from magic? Ofcourse. But the way combat is done makes combat in Spoils x10 more complicated than magic. The combat step in spoils (attacking in waves, more than just "first strike" and normal damage is much more exciting than it is in magic.
To say that combat in Spoils is 10x more complicated than Magic can also be considered a detriment. Part of the reason Magic is so popular is because it has appeal to players ages 10-50 (yes, I've seen "seasoned" magic players). New players have a hard enough time grasping basic Magic mechanics to begin with, so to say that learning Spoils (combat) is 10x harder isn't a great selling point if you're trying to spread the word to all age groups.
By all means, continue to make completely ignorant statements. This is what bother me about magic players, despite being one myself. They act like magic the end all be all.
The people who think spoils is a copy of magic don't know what they are talking about. Does it borrow certian concepts from magic? Ofcourse. But the way combat is done makes combat in Spoils x10 more complicated than magic. The combat step in spoils (attacking in waves, more than just "first strike" and normal damage is much more exciting than it is in magic.
You do realize you're quoting a post from over four years ago, right?
Personally, any time someone says Magic would be improved by removing 'mana screw' or the need to mulligan, I stop listening. Those are skill hurdles that you need to clear to be a better player. You can't just slap together 60 cards and expect to win; you need to make sure your mana curve is all right, or you'll get a hand cluttered with fatties you can't cast for 5 turns, or you'll have nothing but cheap little dudes that don't impact the game enough to matter. You need to curve it right. You also need to build your landbase to provide the colors you'll need, when you need them, without being too scarce or too abundant. Mulliganning is a skill you need to learn so you can pitch a hand that just won't work, in favor of a new one. Saying mulligans/mana screw/flood are things that the game would be better without are like saying you'd prefer FPS games if you had infinite ammo, and auto-aim. Yes, they would be much easier for new players, but it removes a SKILL aspect.
You do realize you're quoting a post from over four years ago, right?
Personally, any time someone says Magic would be improved by removing 'mana screw' or the need to mulligan, I stop listening. Those are skill hurdles that you need to clear to be a better player. You can't just slap together 60 cards and expect to win; you need to make sure your mana curve is all right, or you'll get a hand cluttered with fatties you can't cast for 5 turns, or you'll have nothing but cheap little dudes that don't impact the game enough to matter. You need to curve it right. You also need to build your landbase to provide the colors you'll need, when you need them, without being too scarce or too abundant. Mulliganning is a skill you need to learn so you can pitch a hand that just won't work, in favor of a new one. Saying mulligans/mana screw/flood are things that the game would be better without are like saying you'd prefer FPS games if you had infinite ammo, and auto-aim. Yes, they would be much easier for new players, but it removes a SKILL aspect.
This TCG does not remove mana screw.... It reduces it. Completely different. And lessening it makes it harder for newer players. However it doesn't reduce/increase the skill level needed to play spoils.
Wait.... then how was this thread on the first page if it that old?
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It's called The Spoils TCG, and it's made by Tenacious Games...
Does it pose as a really big threat towards this game like with the World of Warcraft TCG?
What are your thoughts?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I think that magic's greatest threat is itself. The only thing that will bring magic down, is bad planing and carelessness on the part of the powers that be.
Plus it's really competitive...
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
To me it looked like it is just a copy of Magic in a lot of aspects, except that you start the game with these very Vanguard type cards and there's no mana screw. It didn't seem different enough to make me go "Wow! that's cool," and it definitely doesn't look like it has flavor as good as Magic's. Is it some sort of techno/sci-fi/fantasy blend or what? Additionally, a game is only competitive if its players are competitive. It is cool that they are doing all those free tournaments though.
The real killer for me is the price per pack, which is $4 for 13 cards. That's actually more expensive than Magic. I love trying out new card games but almost every single new game fails. I will try a game, but I won't throw large amounts of money at it until other people start playing it and enjoying it too. I'm to the point where I just wait for the game to die. Then if it was any good, I can pick up booster boxes for $10 - $20. At that price, I can build a massive collection and fuel an entire play group for $50 or so.
Maybe the Spoils will be amazing, but after reading the rulebook and looking at a very few sample cards, I just didn't get it and I wasn't really impressed.
Many others have tried, no one has succeeded, MAgic will die on it's own when it's just too old for anyone to care.
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13000(factorial)=Almost Infinite.
Magic has already defined itself as the best TCG out there. Yu-Gi-Oh was hot a few years back, same with Pokemon, but they never really beat Magic out of it's league. With around 500 new cards a year, who can beat that? With a system that calculates your worldwide ranking and allows you to win up to 1 Million Dollars, who can beat that? Nothing I tell you...nothing. Give me another piece of cardboard card more expensive than a Mint Black Lotus, then I'll gladly burn my $200 Orzhov deck down.
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A First Edition Foil Charizard from Pokemon could sell for more than a Black Lotus during the early days of the Pokemon craze. Both cards were priced around $300 back then, if I remember correctly. Now, Charizard is probably considered underpowered for Pokemon. (I don't follow the game any more so I'm not sure, but I think they have had a huge power creep.)
In contrast, Black Lotus remains the single best mana acceleration card ever to be printed.
That might be a lesson to new game companies. Release your most powerful cards first. Then slowly decrease the power lever, rather than increase it. That way, old players have a vested interest in the game and their cards are still useful, rather than obsolete.
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Why are you making fun of me? I'm not a troll. And no I didn't invent The Spoils TCG, it was actually invented by a company known as Tenacious Games.
And yes I know that Magic is the king of all TCG's, I mean why wouldn't it be? It is the first of it's kind and it defined the TCG Genre.
Plus I love playing Magic, it's a great game. Many friends of mine at my hobby store play Magic and we get lots of Magic players every now and then, plus there's also a Time Spiral Draft Tournament which I plan on entering at my hobby store next weekend.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Hey, I was just pointing out the fact that you had made almost no posts on this board except one 'promoting' a new game. You even mentioned the people who make it (twice!!!). It seems to me that only someone in it for the publicity would do that.
I really dont think that any other new card games on the market are going to ever have as big of a following as Magic. Ive heard it a thousand times too, everytime a new TCG comes out..."Oh man VS is SOOO much better than MtG" "Lo5R ROCKS!!!"...
But also I remember a time, right around Urza's Destiny and all through Mercadian Block, when I heard this:
"OH MAN POKEMON IS SOOO AWESOME!!!!! MAGIC IS DEAD!!!!"
Where is Pokemon?
Where is Magic?
I dont think that this new game your talking about (which ive never even heard of) is oging to be able to make any dent in Magics huge fanbase. And I think I rest my case, with the above pokemon-analogy.
ninjaEDIT: hadnt thought of it but the guy could be promoting it, he does like mentioning the full name and company. If I had a new game Id put a plant on these boards to promote it too, thats grat marketing:p
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Magic has been around a hell of a long time. This means that it has built up a huge loyal player base. People like myself will not even try another game because lets face it, why spend money on a game that will never be as wide spread or good as magic? Magic also has the best R&D teams by virtue of the amount of practice they have of making a balanced game. All another TCG has to do is slip up early and its more or less done for because people will notice how much more fun a balanced game like magic is.
Magic also has a deep rooted competive system. You can't wipe something like that out. With money at stake people will play and Magic pays out far more then anyother TCG so competive magic will countinue and with it the game due to the great things its already done including the players who joined R&D to help make the game better.
I can hardly see how magic can fall from anything, much less a TCG. Magic is rooted in many countries is still growing. Its hard to stop that kind of momentum.
"I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
However, spoils is a very fun game, it has become popular at my local store
That's because it is him, according to their FAQ...
As for the topic at hand, I don't see The Spoils putting an end to M:tG. Magic has a massive following now, as far as TCGs go. It has survived all the TV-show backed games that have come out and otherwise withstood the test of time. Frankly, I believe the only thing that could kill Magic at this point is a series of very poorly designed sets that not even casual players, who are the vast majority of all M:tG players, want to buy. Even if The Spoils does take off, I see the two games being able to co-exist, just as Magic currently co-exists with YGO, Pokemon, VS, DM, etc.
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The people who think spoils is a copy of magic don't know what they are talking about. Does it borrow certian concepts from magic? Ofcourse. But the way combat is done makes combat in Spoils x10 more complicated than magic. The combat step in spoils (attacking in waves, more than just "first strike" and normal damage is much more exciting than it is in magic.
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To say that combat in Spoils is 10x more complicated than Magic can also be considered a detriment. Part of the reason Magic is so popular is because it has appeal to players ages 10-50 (yes, I've seen "seasoned" magic players). New players have a hard enough time grasping basic Magic mechanics to begin with, so to say that learning Spoils (combat) is 10x harder isn't a great selling point if you're trying to spread the word to all age groups.
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You do realize you're quoting a post from over four years ago, right?
Personally, any time someone says Magic would be improved by removing 'mana screw' or the need to mulligan, I stop listening. Those are skill hurdles that you need to clear to be a better player. You can't just slap together 60 cards and expect to win; you need to make sure your mana curve is all right, or you'll get a hand cluttered with fatties you can't cast for 5 turns, or you'll have nothing but cheap little dudes that don't impact the game enough to matter. You need to curve it right. You also need to build your landbase to provide the colors you'll need, when you need them, without being too scarce or too abundant. Mulliganning is a skill you need to learn so you can pitch a hand that just won't work, in favor of a new one. Saying mulligans/mana screw/flood are things that the game would be better without are like saying you'd prefer FPS games if you had infinite ammo, and auto-aim. Yes, they would be much easier for new players, but it removes a SKILL aspect.
The latest Comprehensive Rules are also good, and can be found here.
Wait.... then how was this thread on the first page if it that old?
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