Everytime I'm at a tournament, I offer to roll a dice and let my opponent call odd or even. However, ALL of my opponents want to do high roll...I never understood why, why roll 2 dice (with chance of tie) than just rolling one die where the odds are exactly 50:50...
Do people like to have "control" of their dice roll believing they actually have influence in their die roll (which is OBVIOUSLY wrong)...
High roll is just convention, I imagine. Maybe some people believe they can influence the outcome of the roll, but it's the most common way to determine who goes first, and so possibly a knee-jerk reaction?
(as a side-note, it also protects against loaded dice)
High roll is just convention, I imagine. Maybe some people believe they can influence the outcome of the roll, but it's the most common way to determine who goes first, and so possibly a knee-jerk reaction?
(as a side-note, it also protects against loaded dice)
Well, if they are calling, it doesn't matter whether the dice is loaded or not, because what they call is still 50:50 chance of getting it right.
Do people like to have "control" of their dice roll believing they actually have influence in their die roll (which is OBVIOUSLY wrong)...
It doesn't matter if it is wrong.
Let me put it this way. Player A casts hymn to tourach. Usually, player A will randomly pick player B's hand. Sometimes dice will be rolled to determine which cards are discarded. However, you will NEVER see a situation where it is player B that chooses cards randomly, despite the card text ("target _player_ discards at random"). It will either be player A rolling a dice or player A picking from a bunch of facedown cards, but NEVER player B picking from a bunch of facedown cards, or even player B rolling a dice to determine which card to discard.
Why is this? Because its player A's spell. He wants to have some control over it. And so, player A gets to pick, not target player. In the case of hymn to tourach, it can be argued that player B might try to cheat, but that shouldn't matter if dice is being rolled to determine which card to discard.
Likewise in die rolls, both players want to have some sort of control over the roll, imaginary as it is.
I think that some players get suspicious when the other player does something unexpected, and a change in dice roll is no different.
Slightly off topic but at the last PTQ one of my opponents late in the tournament took out two 6 sided dice and offered the deal 1 through 6 I went first 7 to 12 he goes first. The worst part is that apparently I was the first person to call him out on it all day.
Slightly off topic but at the last PTQ one of my opponents late in the tournament took out two 6 sided dice and offered the deal 1 through 6 I went first 7 to 12 he goes first. The worst part is that apparently I was the first person to call him out on it all day.
I hate being a jerk, but considering this is a PTQ, I would have called a judge. That's a blatant attempt to cheat your way into going first.
Everybody I've played with has a different idea on how to do Hymn to Tourach. Sometimes we'll use dice. Sometimes we'll shuffle the hand facedown. One guy is convinced that you can tell what's in someone's hand by the way they hold their cards, so he doesn't like having the caster pluck cards out of the hand.
On a side note, if your opponent offers to roll a die to determine who decides who goes first, are you allowed to accept a probability of winning the roll that is less than 50%? (Clearly you couldn't demand or legally trick your opponent into letting you have more than 50%, but could you request less?)
Ie. Would you be allowed to propose that on only 1 and 2 you get to decide and on 3, 4, 5, and 6 your opponent gets to decide?
If someone offers to odd's or even i always choose "Primes" just to knock them off their rocker a bit
I recommend that you not do that. There are only 8 primes on a 20-sided die vs. 10 odd or even, so your chances of going first are only 40% instead of 50%.
Practically speaking, think of all the times that a '9' or a '15' was rolled. You missed your chance to go first; you would've gone first by choosing "odd."
At our LGS we sometimes use "Rock Lobster, Paper Tiger Scissors Lizard" as a means of deciding who goes first, but you are correct, there are some people that absolutely throw a fit if I ask them to do it, it's most likely as others have said a psychological thing.
As far as allowing for less than 50% chances of going first, that is not allowed, however, you are not rolling to decide who goes first, but you are rolling to decide who chooses which player goes first, so if you'd rather go second, if you win the roll, you can go second. If you just want your opponent to have the choice, well then there's not much you can do.
To really confuse your opponent on who goes first:
Wait for him to pull out the die. When he's just about to roll it say, "I'll take the draw." I did this at a FNM once and each time the other players face was priceless.
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Personally, I always ask for the even/odd roll as well. If they don't like it and want to do high roll, I am alright with that. I prefer even/odd though. It is just more simple.
Unless you're rolling two dice, then the person who is going for odds has a higher chance of winning.
The other part about high-roll is the possibility of angle-shooting to get a re-roll. If they don't make it clear and assume you meant low-roll, a clusterf*** ensues.
Both of you are wrong. The odds of rolling an odd number on two six-sided dice is ALWAYS less than the odds of rolling an even number, because 1 doesn't exist on two dice; only numbers greater than 1.
EDIT: 'Nath
If you roll 2d6, the odds you roll a 7 is not the same as rolling a 12, so this argument is invalid. It _is_ actually even odds on calling even/odd on a 2d6 roll:
Rolling : Odds - Possible Dice Rolls (die 1/die 2)
2 : 1 in 36 - 1/1
3 : 2 in 36 (1 in 18) - 1/2, 2/1
4 : 3 in 36 (1 in 12) - 1/3, 2/2, 3/1
5 : 4 in 36 (1 in 9) - 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1
6 : 5 in 36 - 1/5, 2/4, 3/3, 4/2, 5/1
7 : 6 in 36 (1 in 6) - 1/6, 2/5, 3/4, 4/3, 5/2, 6/1
8 : 5 in 36 - 2/6, 3/5, 4/4, 5/3, 6/2
9 : 4 in 36 (1 in 9) - 3/6, 4/5, 5/4, 6/3
10 : 3 in 36 (1 in 12) - 4/6, 5/5, 6/4
11 : 2 in 36 (1 in 18) - 5/6, 6/5
12 : 1 in 36 - 6/6
Odd number: 18 in 36 (1+3+5+5+3+1)
Even number: 18 in 36 (2+4+6+4+2)
Therefore, the odds you roll an odd number are equal to the odds you roll an even number.
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Edit: I'm actually thinking about this, and I believe that you have even odds on any XdY roll, where you are rolling any X dice with Y sides, and all dice have an even number of sides.
Proof: Take a checker board that's 6x6; in the top-left you have 1/1; as you go further right, increase the left number, going down increases the right number. So, it looks like this:
If you match those up to the checker board colors if you add the numbers up, all the odds will be on one color, all the evens will be on another color, and there's the same number of each colored square in this board. The same is true whether the number is 2 or 20 or higher.
Even if you move to 3 dimensions (3 dice), all you're really doing is stacking these 2D boards on top of each other, (just flipping odd/even on each one) each of the boards having the same number of odd and even numbers. You could extend that to be any number of dice from that, providing a proof for XdY, where Y is even. (If Y is odd, the odds would be favored for the odd-choosing player at ((X^Y)/2 + 1) / (X^Y), where X is the number of sides and Y is the number of dice.
Screw all this odd and even B.S. Just yahtzee for first. Or Farkle for it. Anyone on facebook should know what Farkle is. One of the most addictive dice games around. I always try to change up the dice rolls. I like calling low roll instead of high because EVERYONE chooses high and I hate going with the grain. 3 dice, 4 dice, 5 dice.
I once rolled 17+ dice of all kinds ---D4s, D6s, D8s, D10s, lots of D20s--- FOR LOW ROLL and I won. It was pretty sweet.
I recommend that you not do that. There are only 8 primes on a 20-sided die vs. 10 odd or even, so your chances of going first are only 40% instead of 50%.
Practically speaking, think of all the times that a '9' or a '15' was rolled. You missed your chance to go first; you would've gone first by choosing "odd."
At fnm last week one of my opponents offered "low roll," I agree and he proceeds to roll a 1 on a D20. I figure he wasn't cheating since a) it's hard (to impossible) to influence a properly rolled D20 and b) why cheat to get a 1 when you could just go for a 20? Still though... O.o
My favorite play/draw determination happened at GP Oakland, in one of the last rounds in the low tables. My opponent didn't show up, and neither did that of the guy sitting next to me. I asked if he wanted to play while we waited the alloted time before a judge gave us wins, and he agreed. Then he proceeds to bust out a chess mat and pieces, saying he'd brought them "just in case." I end up beating him, playing first in game one, and even after the judge gives us our wins we continued until we'd played a full three-game match. Fun times
We often use collector's number (odd/even) of a random card nearby when playing casual, cube, testing etc and it always throws us for a loop when the card is old and doesn't have one.
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Do people like to have "control" of their dice roll believing they actually have influence in their die roll (which is OBVIOUSLY wrong)...
This is my Trade Binder I check it and update it everyday
(as a side-note, it also protects against loaded dice)
Well, if they are calling, it doesn't matter whether the dice is loaded or not, because what they call is still 50:50 chance of getting it right.
It doesn't matter if it is wrong.
Let me put it this way. Player A casts hymn to tourach. Usually, player A will randomly pick player B's hand. Sometimes dice will be rolled to determine which cards are discarded. However, you will NEVER see a situation where it is player B that chooses cards randomly, despite the card text ("target _player_ discards at random"). It will either be player A rolling a dice or player A picking from a bunch of facedown cards, but NEVER player B picking from a bunch of facedown cards, or even player B rolling a dice to determine which card to discard.
Why is this? Because its player A's spell. He wants to have some control over it. And so, player A gets to pick, not target player. In the case of hymn to tourach, it can be argued that player B might try to cheat, but that shouldn't matter if dice is being rolled to determine which card to discard.
Likewise in die rolls, both players want to have some sort of control over the roll, imaginary as it is.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Slightly off topic but at the last PTQ one of my opponents late in the tournament took out two 6 sided dice and offered the deal 1 through 6 I went first 7 to 12 he goes first. The worst part is that apparently I was the first person to call him out on it all day.
Ie. Would you be allowed to propose that on only 1 and 2 you get to decide and on 3, 4, 5, and 6 your opponent gets to decide?
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I recommend that you not do that. There are only 8 primes on a 20-sided die vs. 10 odd or even, so your chances of going first are only 40% instead of 50%.
Practically speaking, think of all the times that a '9' or a '15' was rolled. You missed your chance to go first; you would've gone first by choosing "odd."
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As far as allowing for less than 50% chances of going first, that is not allowed, however, you are not rolling to decide who goes first, but you are rolling to decide who chooses which player goes first, so if you'd rather go second, if you win the roll, you can go second. If you just want your opponent to have the choice, well then there's not much you can do.
Prime numbers also include 2.. So you have a 2/3 % chance of winning if you're rolling a 6 sided die.
Wait for him to pull out the die. When he's just about to roll it say, "I'll take the draw." I did this at a FNM once and each time the other players face was priceless.
-Yogi Berra
Um, no. You have a 1/2 chance of winning:
Primes -- 2, 3, 5
Non-primes -- 1, 4, 6
The odds are 50:50 and thus fair.
Unless you're rolling two dice, then the person who is going for odds has a higher chance of winning.
Twenty-sided is even.
Odds (1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19) - 10 total chances
Evens (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20) - 10 total chances
One six-sided is even, as is two six-sided and etc.
Odds (1, 3, 5) - 3 total chances
Evens (2, 4, 6) - 3 total chances
Odds (1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11) - 6 total chances
Evens (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12) - 6 total chances
As long as your dice begins on an odd number (1) and ends on an even number (20 for example), odds or evens is a 50/50 chance.
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Yeah, but if you're rolling two six sided you don't get 1, ever..
Evens - 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 - 6 Chances
Odds - 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 - 5 Chances
If you roll 2d6, the odds you roll a 7 is not the same as rolling a 12, so this argument is invalid. It _is_ actually even odds on calling even/odd on a 2d6 roll:
Rolling : Odds - Possible Dice Rolls (die 1/die 2)
2 : 1 in 36 - 1/1
3 : 2 in 36 (1 in 18) - 1/2, 2/1
4 : 3 in 36 (1 in 12) - 1/3, 2/2, 3/1
5 : 4 in 36 (1 in 9) - 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1
6 : 5 in 36 - 1/5, 2/4, 3/3, 4/2, 5/1
7 : 6 in 36 (1 in 6) - 1/6, 2/5, 3/4, 4/3, 5/2, 6/1
8 : 5 in 36 - 2/6, 3/5, 4/4, 5/3, 6/2
9 : 4 in 36 (1 in 9) - 3/6, 4/5, 5/4, 6/3
10 : 3 in 36 (1 in 12) - 4/6, 5/5, 6/4
11 : 2 in 36 (1 in 18) - 5/6, 6/5
12 : 1 in 36 - 6/6
Odd number: 18 in 36 (1+3+5+5+3+1)
Even number: 18 in 36 (2+4+6+4+2)
Therefore, the odds you roll an odd number are equal to the odds you roll an even number.
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Edit: I'm actually thinking about this, and I believe that you have even odds on any XdY roll, where you are rolling any X dice with Y sides, and all dice have an even number of sides.
Proof: Take a checker board that's 6x6; in the top-left you have 1/1; as you go further right, increase the left number, going down increases the right number. So, it looks like this:
1/1 2/1 3/1 4/1 5/1 6/1
2/1 2/2 3/2 4/2 5/2 6/2
...
If you match those up to the checker board colors if you add the numbers up, all the odds will be on one color, all the evens will be on another color, and there's the same number of each colored square in this board. The same is true whether the number is 2 or 20 or higher.
Even if you move to 3 dimensions (3 dice), all you're really doing is stacking these 2D boards on top of each other, (just flipping odd/even on each one) each of the boards having the same number of odd and even numbers. You could extend that to be any number of dice from that, providing a proof for XdY, where Y is even. (If Y is odd, the odds would be favored for the odd-choosing player at ((X^Y)/2 + 1) / (X^Y), where X is the number of sides and Y is the number of dice.
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I once rolled 17+ dice of all kinds ---D4s, D6s, D8s, D10s, lots of D20s--- FOR LOW ROLL and I won. It was pretty sweet.
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1 is not a prime number. On a 6-sided die, you have a 50% chance of hitting a prime: 2, 3, or 5.
Assuming we are using a 6-sided ofcourse...
My favorite play/draw determination happened at GP Oakland, in one of the last rounds in the low tables. My opponent didn't show up, and neither did that of the guy sitting next to me. I asked if he wanted to play while we waited the alloted time before a judge gave us wins, and he agreed. Then he proceeds to bust out a chess mat and pieces, saying he'd brought them "just in case." I end up beating him, playing first in game one, and even after the judge gives us our wins we continued until we'd played a full three-game match. Fun times
We often use collector's number (odd/even) of a random card nearby when playing casual, cube, testing etc and it always throws us for a loop when the card is old and doesn't have one.