My friend and I are having an argument about the usefulness of Terramorphic Expanse. I think it's an absolutely adorable design, very useful and fun. My friend, however, thinks it's a terrible card because it doesn't tap for mana. What do you guys think?
I think, in a set that doesn't have much mana fixing, it is a decent card if you can get it in draft or sealed deck tournaments. Otherwise, there are other cards you can use to fix your mana up that do more than just fetch a land. SoA has the fetch lands for each shard, and you can tap those for a colorless mana if you need to, just as one option.
But if it is your only option for a constructed deck, it is better than nothing.
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I'd say it's fine in two color decks using M10 lands, especially decks lacking turn 1 plays. I've seen people on restrictive budgets using it in 3 color decks and it's not bad (though definitely not optimal). Overall, it's a good design (and great in limited), but definitely a common-slot fixer.
I'm actually planning on using it in my constructed Jund deck simply because it works so well and sets up the turn 2 untapped M10 dual every time.
Not to mention shenanigans like Crucible of Worlds. It's a fun card, and a great land for casual decks. I love it so much that I have two playsets making themselves useful. All around, you can always put it into some deck.
It's in all of my decks that don't have the fetchlands. I really like it. But my only question is what problems would it have caused if the land came into play untapped? I mean it's a common, it's not going to be a $15 card, it's still going to be a .25 common, and at least making it somewhat on-par with the fetchlands would have been nice.
But my only question is what problems would it have caused if the land came into play untapped?
Every deck would play it. Every deck. Even something like mono-white Kithkin would play it just for thinning if the land entered the battlefield untapped.
Nearly zero, but NOT zero. The edge is very small, but it is undeniably there, and therefore there would be no reason not to play this Uber-Expanse that put lands into play untapped. Even if only one out of a hundred games is decided by the time you draw gas instead of the land you would have gotten had you not fetched it out earlier, that's still enough reason to play them. It's all about giving yourself the best chance to win.
I can see not playing things like Wooded Foothills in a mono-green deck because the probability of having it make a difference doesn't justify the cost of 1 life. But what if the land didn't cost you anything? The only reason not to play it would be the existence of Stifle effects; even then the allure is great.
Well deck thining does change the percentages in colors of lands. If you have 8 fetchlands that grab only 1 specific colored land then your % changes alot from 1/60 = 2% to 9/60 = 15%. That's a the difference. if you know u have a high chance of getting Green land, and less of red, u can crack a fetch land for red and bank on getting a green.
Any percentage gained is an advantage regardless of how small, because it only takes 1 mistake to get a loss.
Ideally if you draw only fetchlands, then you are deck thinning. But if the reverse happens then you are definitely drawing dead cards because fetchs cant tap for mana.
assume you have 20 lands in deck on start. On turn 3, if u had and played only 3 fetchs and used them, then when you draw turn 4. You have a 14/47 = 29.79% per chance of drawing another land. But if you had and played 3 non fetchs in play. Your draw turn 4 would be 17/50 = 34% of drawing a land.
Back to the main topic, well if you need color fixing, and to do it without taking spell slots, you have ur choices of nonbasic lands tap lands and you have this or panoramas. So it depends on you. I use them because there's nothing better. And i don't really wanna compare them to a panorama since they provide mana, but cost addtional to crack. But in extended fetchlands are superior.
In decks that don't need to be blindingly fast, I like it. It fixes your mana and thins your deck a little. I use 4 in most of my 2 color decks.
This.
For anyone who can't afford duals or other pricey lands, these are just great.
I have something like 60 of them and I rarely have any just sitting around not being used.
Your friend might either be 1) a total spike (with a deck to match) or 2) listening to all the total spikes in competitive scene who do have all the better options available, like duals, etc. Of course they say this card is junk, b/c compared to those options, it is.
If you don't have anything better, you can certainly do a lot worse than Expanse for what it does. It fixes your colors magnificently in my experience (and I DO have a lot of dualies & painlands.) It's still good.
I'm never sad/dissapointed when I open a Teramorphic Expanse. I managed to get a foil one and its, honestly, one of the prettiest foils I've ever seen.
I managed to get a foil one and its, honestly, one of the prettiest foils I've ever seen.
Yeah, I traded a bunch of random junk for a foil version. It looks pretty.
While one fetchland might not thin your deck that much, the more you have, the more your deck will be thinned. However, there's a certain balance between thinning and making sure you have lands to seek out. Remember to put basics into decks with Expanse.
My friend and I are having an argument about the usefulness of Terramorphic Expanse. I think it's an absolutely adorable design, very useful and fun. My friend, however, thinks it's a terrible card because it doesn't tap for mana. What do you guys think?
Your friend is clearly not a competitive player in many formats.:rolleyes:
I don't know why you even pay attention to him.;) It's a good card, and if it's useful in your deck, then run it despite what people say. You already know I hate it (because I have other choices), but in formats like Limited, it can decide whether you win or lose a match.
That's what I think it is: a Limited staple, and a poor man's resource for a constructed budget deck.
Your friend is clearly not a competitive player in many formats.:rolleyes:
I don't know why you even pay attention to him.;) It's a good card, and if it's useful in your deck, then run it despite what people say. You already know I hate it (because I have other choices), but in formats like Limited, it can decide whether you win or lose a match.
That's what I think it is: a Limited staple, and a poor man's resource for a constructed budget deck.
Yeah, I'm not paying $10.00 for a single land. That's ridiculous. I won't listen to this friend. He is clearly not of sound mind or reasonable intelligence.
Let's not forget that Terramorphic Expanse shuffles your deck just like the fetchlands, as well! This is a big deal when you're running stuff like Brainstorm or the poor man's Divining Top, Soothsaying. Sounds like my kind of deck already. :xd:
Let's not forget that Terramorphic Expanse shuffles your deck just like the fetchlands, as well! This is a big deal when you're running stuff like Brainstorm or the poor man's Divining Top, Soothsaying. Sounds like my kind of deck already. :xd:
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Neither do the fetchlands.
It's pretty decent, especially if you're on a budget. It fixes your lands and thins your deck.
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But if it is your only option for a constructed deck, it is better than nothing.
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But the fetchlands grab a land that does not come into play tapped.
If you need a specific color land from Terramorphic Expanse, you have to wait a turn. In Magic, one turn can make or break the game.
This said, I believe Expanse is a subpar card in Constructed, but amazing in limited. I also believe the flavor and design are well done.
Yes but that was a specific response to his friend's argument that it's bad for not tapping for mana.
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Lol, your right. I guess I was assuming that in a round-a-bout way (crack it, get a land, tap it for mana), fetchlands do tap for mana.
Not to mention shenanigans like Crucible of Worlds. It's a fun card, and a great land for casual decks. I love it so much that I have two playsets making themselves useful. All around, you can always put it into some deck.
Every deck would play it. Every deck. Even something like mono-white Kithkin would play it just for thinning if the land entered the battlefield untapped.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Aggro decks love drawing gas instead of lands. Why not play a land that thins out a basic land from your deck at absolutely zero cost?
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Because the chance difference before and after getting a land through a fetchland is nearly zero.
I can see not playing things like Wooded Foothills in a mono-green deck because the probability of having it make a difference doesn't justify the cost of 1 life. But what if the land didn't cost you anything? The only reason not to play it would be the existence of Stifle effects; even then the allure is great.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Any percentage gained is an advantage regardless of how small, because it only takes 1 mistake to get a loss.
Ideally if you draw only fetchlands, then you are deck thinning. But if the reverse happens then you are definitely drawing dead cards because fetchs cant tap for mana.
assume you have 20 lands in deck on start. On turn 3, if u had and played only 3 fetchs and used them, then when you draw turn 4. You have a 14/47 = 29.79% per chance of drawing another land. But if you had and played 3 non fetchs in play. Your draw turn 4 would be 17/50 = 34% of drawing a land.
Back to the main topic, well if you need color fixing, and to do it without taking spell slots, you have ur choices of nonbasic lands tap lands and you have this or panoramas. So it depends on you. I use them because there's nothing better. And i don't really wanna compare them to a panorama since they provide mana, but cost addtional to crack. But in extended fetchlands are superior.
This.
For anyone who can't afford duals or other pricey lands, these are just great.
I have something like 60 of them and I rarely have any just sitting around not being used.
Your friend might either be 1) a total spike (with a deck to match) or 2) listening to all the total spikes in competitive scene who do have all the better options available, like duals, etc. Of course they say this card is junk, b/c compared to those options, it is.
If you don't have anything better, you can certainly do a lot worse than Expanse for what it does. It fixes your colors magnificently in my experience (and I DO have a lot of dualies & painlands.) It's still good.
He's wrong. You're right.
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While one fetchland might not thin your deck that much, the more you have, the more your deck will be thinned. However, there's a certain balance between thinning and making sure you have lands to seek out. Remember to put basics into decks with Expanse.
Your friend is clearly not a competitive player in many formats.:rolleyes:
I don't know why you even pay attention to him.;) It's a good card, and if it's useful in your deck, then run it despite what people say. You already know I hate it (because I have other choices), but in formats like Limited, it can decide whether you win or lose a match.
That's what I think it is: a Limited staple, and a poor man's resource for a constructed budget deck.
I like 4/4s for 7.
Yeah, I'm not paying $10.00 for a single land. That's ridiculous. I won't listen to this friend. He is clearly not of sound mind or reasonable intelligence.
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Exactly, I love Expanse in decks that use either Sensei's Divining Top, Sylvan Library, Mirri's Guile, etc.
Also works very well with the Tainted lands (fetching you the needed swamps) if you're on a tight budget.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is nifty with it, if you wish that the Expanses could tap for mana.
I also enjoyed my Expanses to thin my deck in a hurry with Azusa, Lost but Seeking + Crucible of Worlds.