Abraham Lincoln once refereed to this phrase in his inaugural address to the country. His closing paragraph was in fact a bit of a masterpiece in an address that seamed so painfully conflicted. At the time he addressed a nation divided. Most of the speech is spent trying to allay the fears of the southern states. In the end a war was fought and the slaves of the south freed. Today these words resonate, today a new president takes office and the world is changed. A time in history I thought I would never see comes to pass. And a man with Kenyan, English, and Irish decent came to office. The first African American President. "Times they are a changing."
So now, a word from my truly cynical side: So few minorities are still acceptable to torment. Lets face it we've become a society of PC (that’s Political Correctness). And that, i believe, is a good thing. We're a nation that has started to realize that we all are quite a lot alike. But, and this is a big but, I've noticed one big issue that polite society almost never mentions. This minority actually is Not a minority. It’s the silent majority: Women. The issue in question is that of Gender.
Why are there so few women gamers? I started asking this question at work, at home, to my friends, and yes even to total strangers. One man replied that women just aren’t hardwired that way; they don't have that competitive edge. I really had to disagree. My assistant Manager is playing this Sunday in a very competitive pool tournament. If women aren’t all that competitive why are there so many women’s sports leagues? Why since the dawn of poker have there been competitive women players? Why are there some women that even learn competitive martial arts? I've heard that MTG and some other traditionally men's games are kind of the old boys club, that any women is looked upon with suspicion until she either proves herself a tease or one of the boys. I've played a female toon on WoW and had guild mates either flirt with me or expect me to totally sit back and heal them even though I was playing a pally. Oh and the incessant flirting Jacks well that only, thank the goddess and god, lasted until I came out as a guy, then things got rather uncomfitable for a bit.
So what’s a guy gamier to do? First realize gamers of the fairer sex do exist. No, they aren’t spies. No, they aren’t eye candy. They are real live people. Be polite and respectful and they will be polite and respectful back. Treat them like you should be treating any new player, Trade with them. Talk to them. Introduce them to the group. Be FRIENDLY.
Finally, one last point. Homophobia. I think this has a lot to do with how one thinks of Gender and specifically femininity. Think of all the derogatory terms for gay men. How many of those came to use due to some illusion of a man not quite masculine enough. I’m gay, and yes, I know that list all too well. The purpose of a shop is to 1) make money, and 2) create a fun friendly environment to play, as the case may be, MTG. When you call someone a F*****, or a F**, or whatever. You’re diverting the shop from its purpose. New players, who may be LBGT (Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay, and Transgender) or straight allies, may overhear, feel uncomfortable, and quite frankly choose not return to the shop. *Side note: For a historical definition of F***** try Wikipedia
I’ll leave you with the last paragraph of President Lincoln’s speech.
"I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."
Thank god we're getting more thought-of trades lately, after all this Rumor Mill madness.
Well, one has only to think about the differences between men and women (physical/biological/emotional/social) and only for a while, to realize how sensible it is that the majority of people who're interested in things like Magic are males. And among those, the apparent majority treats women in a derisive manner, which is deplorable (I guess they think things like "since I don't stand a chance already, let's vent out all my anger against the 'other' gender by mocking this female player"). That said, anyone I know who uses common sense treats MTG-playing women in a civil manner, like they would treat anyone else (I always try to do my part). But yeah, if MTG players were a tad more socially skilled, then we would have many more female players. I think part of what "scares" women away from Magic is the already-existing stigma that the game is only played by misogynists. It's sad, but, in a large scale, there's actually not much we can do...
How about society's expectations? Everybody knows that there is some stigma or stereotype associated with playing MtG from those outside the gaming world. Most of us deal with it fine, but there are closet MtG players. Now take that stigma ascribed to MtG gamers and multiply it by several factors for any female gamer. There you have it. It certainly isn't a complete explanation, but I can tell you from conversations with my wife and the wives/girlfriends of the guys in my play circle that it is a huge part of it.
Why are there so few women gamers? I started asking this question at work, at home, to my friends, and yes even to total strangers. One man replied that women just aren’t hardwired that way; they don't have that competitive edge. I really had to disagree. My assistant Manager is playing this Sunday in a very competitive pool tournament. If women aren’t all that competitive why are there so many women’s sports leagues? Why since the dawn of poker have there been competitive women players? Why are there some women that even learn competitive martial arts? I've heard that MTG and some other traditionally men's games are kind of the old boys club, that any women is looked upon with suspicion until she either proves herself a tease or one of the boys. I've played a female toon on WoW and had guild mates either flirt with me or expect me to totally sit back and heal them even though I was playing a pally. Oh and the incessant flirting Jacks well that only, thank the goddess and god, lasted until I came out as a guy, then things got rather uncomfitable for a bit.
So what’s a guy gamier to do? First realize gamers of the fairer sex do exist. No, they aren’t spies. No, they aren’t eye candy. They are real live people. Be polite and respectful and they will be polite and respectful back. Treat them like you should be treating any new player, Trade with them. Talk to them. Introduce them to the group. Be FRIENDLY.
I've run into this a few times, though normally much more ignorant than this. However, I always laugh that this still needs to be said. Seriously? Does anyone over the age of cooties really need to be told this?
All of the things you listed- treating them nicely, trading with them, talking to them- are things you should do to any HUMAN BEING. Making it sound like a list of things to do when confronted with a strange creature just drives the point home of them being different.
Some people tried to address this with the concept of "hate crimes". That labeling it as something different, just because of the color of their skin (regardless of whether it truly was the cause), just drives the divide between us further. If someone punches another person, than it's assault. Regardless of who got punched, and who threw it to begin with. It's less of a crime if both people were white males? How does that work?
Obviously men and women are different, but we are the same species people... Just treat them like anyone else. Same goes for anyone.
Just how many gimmicks does Alacar need? First Daidream, now JonathanSpx. What's next, CreepySexFiend?
Hehe, so true. Honestly, what's the point of posting these threads? You get patted on the back by all the good liberal magic players who now get to chuckle at those uneducated bigots who discriminate, then they go on to the next topic. Seriously, I don't know why these threads get posted anymore.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
For the record I am not Alacur.
Second the shop I go to is primaraly older players and yes on occassion they still need to be told this.
Heres a post from a different forum...it kind of explains why I posted the origional post.
I tend to believe that we are socially engineered to fulfil our gender roles. Look in the baby section of any department store some time. Why must a girl always be given pink and books on princesses and ponies. By the way, taking care of said pony. Well it isn’t easy. Those roles seam to follow us wherever you may go. I will say times they are changing. There is more of a blurred line between the gender roles in our society. And yes gender roles do differ in other cultures. As for GLBT issues, I do have to question as its been questioned before if some of the torment come really from the tormentors own insecurities of an inability to fulfil his/her own gender expectations. I write this also at a point of time when homelessness and suicide among GLBT teens seams to be up.
How does all of this fit in with the MTG community?
I go to a shop primarily of older male players. I’ve been hurased in the past by one of the kids and I pretty much have gone though enough in the past to ignore it. Others, younger, new players may not be as strong. I know our shop did lose one transgender boy after one of the 20 something patrons went on a 20-minute repetitive phrase of derogatory terms. Now in response other players in the shop have been exceedingly cool. I know the shop I go to is not the only shop that has had to deal with this problem, I am sure this is not the only incident. I’ve been to other shops. I even saw a shop owner join in. This I feel is unaccepatble and I left said shop.
As for Issues of Gender, One of my best friends is a woman magic player. I have seen women treated much lower then their male counterparts in shops. I’ve seen them poked fun at, ignored and demeaned to a truly unacceptable manner. Let me put it this way I would rather be treated as a gay magic player then a female magic player. Something truly needs to change.
I’m happy with my current shop. It has been one of the better shops with these issues.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Viva la revolution against raising MSRP.
Casual Players: We are the 99%. Buy local or go home.
Abraham Lincoln once refereed to this phrase in his inaugural address to the country. His closing paragraph was in fact a bit of a masterpiece in an address that seamed so painfully conflicted. At the time he addressed a nation divided. Most of the speech is spent trying to allay the fears of the southern states. In the end a war was fought and the slaves of the south freed. Today these words resonate, today a new president takes office and the world is changed. A time in history I thought I would never see comes to pass. And a man with Kenyan, English, and Irish decent came to office. The first African American President. "Times they are a changing."
So now, a word from my truly cynical side: So few minorities are still acceptable to torment. Lets face it we've become a society of PC (that’s Political Correctness). And that, i believe, is a good thing. We're a nation that has started to realize that we all are quite a lot alike. But, and this is a big but, I've noticed one big issue that polite society almost never mentions. This minority actually is Not a minority. It’s the silent majority: Women. The issue in question is that of Gender.
Why are there so few women gamers? I started asking this question at work, at home, to my friends, and yes even to total strangers. One man replied that women just aren’t hardwired that way; they don't have that competitive edge. I really had to disagree. My assistant Manager is playing this Sunday in a very competitive pool tournament. If women aren’t all that competitive why are there so many women’s sports leagues? Why since the dawn of poker have there been competitive women players? Why are there some women that even learn competitive martial arts? I've heard that MTG and some other traditionally men's games are kind of the old boys club, that any women is looked upon with suspicion until she either proves herself a tease or one of the boys. I've played a female toon on WoW and had guild mates either flirt with me or expect me to totally sit back and heal them even though I was playing a pally. Oh and the incessant flirting Jacks well that only, thank the goddess and god, lasted until I came out as a guy, then things got rather uncomfitable for a bit.
So what’s a guy gamier to do? First realize gamers of the fairer sex do exist. No, they aren’t spies. No, they aren’t eye candy. They are real live people. Be polite and respectful and they will be polite and respectful back. Treat them like you should be treating any new player, Trade with them. Talk to them. Introduce them to the group. Be FRIENDLY.
Finally, one last point. Homophobia. I think this has a lot to do with how one thinks of Gender and specifically femininity. Think of all the derogatory terms for gay men. How many of those came to use due to some illusion of a man not quite masculine enough. I’m gay, and yes, I know that list all too well. The purpose of a shop is to 1) make money, and 2) create a fun friendly environment to play, as the case may be, MTG. When you call someone a F*****, or a F**, or whatever. You’re diverting the shop from its purpose. New players, who may be LBGT (Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay, and Transgender) or straight allies, may overhear, feel uncomfortable, and quite frankly choose not return to the shop. *Side note: For a historical definition of F***** try Wikipedia
I’ll leave you with the last paragraph of President Lincoln’s speech.
"I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."
Yeah. well in my experiance most females involved with this game got into it becuase of thier husbands or boyfreinds or sons or other game playing men in their life, so if it was me I would try to get my own female friends involved, though obviously not my girlfriend or wife, beucase, you know, you are gay.
As for homophobia, I am bisexual myself and have been in a longterm relationship with another man for 2 years. It is sometimes akward becuase everyone assumes that my sanificant other is a female. I think that this kind of issue in a magic playgroup should be similar to the way it is in every social group. As far a homophobia, stand up to it; your freinds don't need to think you are gay to know you won't tollerate that crap in your presance. As far as comeing out to your magic buddies I would feel it out and be conservative about it, only telling who you feel comfertable with. As far as who is doing what to whom, I really don't think that it is something you should be sharing with random strangers regardless of wheather they have a ***** or a ******. A gay freind of mine brings a beard to magic games and tells everyone that she is his girlfreind when she is actually his boyfreind's sister. I in no way endorse this kind of behaviour.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause!
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw: SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
Hehe, so true. Honestly, what's the point of posting these threads? You get patted on the back by all the good liberal magic players who now get to chuckle at those uneducated bigots who discriminate, then they go on to the next topic. Seriously, I don't know why these threads get posted anymore.
This essay was bad when you posted it to the Star City Games forums, and you didn't even bother to edit it or improve it?
Seriously, how many other forums did you spam, and why does it seem like you've used otherwise inactive accounts with zero posts to post the essay? Is it that you don't want to have it associated with your main account? Afraid that poor compositional skills will reflect on your reputation?
Hiya explosion. This is my third day ever using a public forum. Nice to see such a welcom. anyway I'm passionate about this. I thought that was partly what these forums are about. I noticed a problem that seams to occure in 100% of the shops I've tried and I doin't know how interconnected these sites are. I've only seen 2 people from several sites commenting on both. If you don't like seeing the post simply don't post back. I'm not spamming the post, theres only one running post on each place I posted it. And I've followed everyones code of condut. Strangly enough I'm also pro free speach so I'm ok with anyone posting there responses in a civil manner. Oh and by the way this is my main and only account.
The author of this essay seems to miss his own point. By referring to women as "angels" and "the fairer sex," he puts them on a pedestal. By "othering" women and making them something to be worshiped or respected for their gender rather than their personality, he works at crossed purposes.
By the way, if this were a paper for an actual class, it'd be a failing grade. You start with a long paragraph that doesn't even touch on the point that you wish to make. It's wonderful that the US has a new president, but even on Inauguration Day, there's no need to evoke him on a post about discrimination against women in Magic.
"Wow I didn't know I was being graded on this. An english teacher did proof read this for me. She would of faild me if I was in her class, not due to content, but on grammer. Thanks for your concern though. I was trying to reflect the style of Lincoln's address. I was also trying to be very polite around a subject that is very close to my heart. I also didn't know what kind of reception the general concepts in this would get. oh by the way, I never refered to women as angels. Some time you really should read Lincoln's address before commenting. Eather that or read the post you're so graciously commenting on. Thanx Love."
Ok, that's enough, you two. Any more bickering back and forth like this and you both get Infractions. Please stay on-topic and if you have any criticisms please relay them in a civil, constructive manner. Thanks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...because without beer, things do not seem to go as well."
Abraham Lincoln once refereed to this phrase in his inaugural address to the country. His closing paragraph was in fact a bit of a masterpiece in an address that seamed so painfully conflicted. At the time he addressed a nation divided. Most of the speech is spent trying to allay the fears of the southern states. In the end a war was fought and the slaves of the south freed. Today these words resonate, today a new president takes office and the world is changed. A time in history I thought I would never see comes to pass. And a man with Kenyan, English, and Irish decent came to office. The first African American President. "Times they are a changing."
So now, a word from my truly cynical side: So few minorities are still acceptable to torment. Lets face it we've become a society of PC (that’s Political Correctness). And that, i believe, is a good thing. We're a nation that has started to realize that we all are quite a lot alike. But, and this is a big but, I've noticed one big issue that polite society almost never mentions. This minority actually is Not a minority. It’s the silent majority: Women. The issue in question is that of Gender.
Why are there so few women gamers? I started asking this question at work, at home, to my friends, and yes even to total strangers. One man replied that women just aren’t hardwired that way; they don't have that competitive edge. I really had to disagree. My assistant Manager is playing this Sunday in a very competitive pool tournament. If women aren’t all that competitive why are there so many women’s sports leagues? Why since the dawn of poker have there been competitive women players? Why are there some women that even learn competitive martial arts? I've heard that MTG and some other traditionally men's games are kind of the old boys club, that any women is looked upon with suspicion until she either proves herself a tease or one of the boys. I've played a female toon on WoW and had guild mates either flirt with me or expect me to totally sit back and heal them even though I was playing a pally. Oh and the incessant flirting Jacks well that only, thank the goddess and god, lasted until I came out as a guy, then things got rather uncomfitable for a bit.
So what’s a guy gamier to do? First realize gamers of the fairer sex do exist. No, they aren’t spies. No, they aren’t eye candy. They are real live people. Be polite and respectful and they will be polite and respectful back. Treat them like you should be treating any new player, Trade with them. Talk to them. Introduce them to the group. Be FRIENDLY.
Finally, one last point. Homophobia. I think this has a lot to do with how one thinks of Gender and specifically femininity. Think of all the derogatory terms for gay men. How many of those came to use due to some illusion of a man not quite masculine enough. I’m gay, and yes, I know that list all too well. The purpose of a shop is to 1) make money, and 2) create a fun friendly environment to play, as the case may be, MTG. When you call someone a F*****, or a F**, or whatever. You’re diverting the shop from its purpose. New players, who may be LBGT (Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay, and Transgender) or straight allies, may overhear, feel uncomfortable, and quite frankly choose not return to the shop. *Side note: For a historical definition of F***** try Wikipedia
I’ll leave you with the last paragraph of President Lincoln’s speech.
"I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."
Spam Warning.
:symu::symw::symb: Vindicatestill
Vintage:
:symu::symb::symr::symw: sphinx slaver
Well, one has only to think about the differences between men and women (physical/biological/emotional/social) and only for a while, to realize how sensible it is that the majority of people who're interested in things like Magic are males. And among those, the apparent majority treats women in a derisive manner, which is deplorable (I guess they think things like "since I don't stand a chance already, let's vent out all my anger against the 'other' gender by mocking this female player"). That said, anyone I know who uses common sense treats MTG-playing women in a civil manner, like they would treat anyone else (I always try to do my part). But yeah, if MTG players were a tad more socially skilled, then we would have many more female players. I think part of what "scares" women away from Magic is the already-existing stigma that the game is only played by misogynists. It's sad, but, in a large scale, there's actually not much we can do...
I like 4/4s for 7.
I've run into this a few times, though normally much more ignorant than this. However, I always laugh that this still needs to be said. Seriously? Does anyone over the age of cooties really need to be told this?
All of the things you listed- treating them nicely, trading with them, talking to them- are things you should do to any HUMAN BEING. Making it sound like a list of things to do when confronted with a strange creature just drives the point home of them being different.
Some people tried to address this with the concept of "hate crimes". That labeling it as something different, just because of the color of their skin (regardless of whether it truly was the cause), just drives the divide between us further. If someone punches another person, than it's assault. Regardless of who got punched, and who threw it to begin with. It's less of a crime if both people were white males? How does that work?
Obviously men and women are different, but we are the same species people... Just treat them like anyone else. Same goes for anyone.
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This has nothing to do with the topic and is, thus, spam.
Official Deschanel Stalker of The Called
Hehe, so true. Honestly, what's the point of posting these threads? You get patted on the back by all the good liberal magic players who now get to chuckle at those uneducated bigots who discriminate, then they go on to the next topic. Seriously, I don't know why these threads get posted anymore.
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Second the shop I go to is primaraly older players and yes on occassion they still need to be told this.
Heres a post from a different forum...it kind of explains why I posted the origional post.
I tend to believe that we are socially engineered to fulfil our gender roles. Look in the baby section of any department store some time. Why must a girl always be given pink and books on princesses and ponies. By the way, taking care of said pony. Well it isn’t easy. Those roles seam to follow us wherever you may go. I will say times they are changing. There is more of a blurred line between the gender roles in our society. And yes gender roles do differ in other cultures. As for GLBT issues, I do have to question as its been questioned before if some of the torment come really from the tormentors own insecurities of an inability to fulfil his/her own gender expectations. I write this also at a point of time when homelessness and suicide among GLBT teens seams to be up.
How does all of this fit in with the MTG community?
I go to a shop primarily of older male players. I’ve been hurased in the past by one of the kids and I pretty much have gone though enough in the past to ignore it. Others, younger, new players may not be as strong. I know our shop did lose one transgender boy after one of the 20 something patrons went on a 20-minute repetitive phrase of derogatory terms. Now in response other players in the shop have been exceedingly cool. I know the shop I go to is not the only shop that has had to deal with this problem, I am sure this is not the only incident. I’ve been to other shops. I even saw a shop owner join in. This I feel is unaccepatble and I left said shop.
As for Issues of Gender, One of my best friends is a woman magic player. I have seen women treated much lower then their male counterparts in shops. I’ve seen them poked fun at, ignored and demeaned to a truly unacceptable manner. Let me put it this way I would rather be treated as a gay magic player then a female magic player. Something truly needs to change.
I’m happy with my current shop. It has been one of the better shops with these issues.
Yeah. well in my experiance most females involved with this game got into it becuase of thier husbands or boyfreinds or sons or other game playing men in their life, so if it was me I would try to get my own female friends involved, though obviously not my girlfriend or wife, beucase, you know, you are gay.
As for homophobia, I am bisexual myself and have been in a longterm relationship with another man for 2 years. It is sometimes akward becuase everyone assumes that my sanificant other is a female. I think that this kind of issue in a magic playgroup should be similar to the way it is in every social group. As far a homophobia, stand up to it; your freinds don't need to think you are gay to know you won't tollerate that crap in your presance. As far as comeing out to your magic buddies I would feel it out and be conservative about it, only telling who you feel comfertable with. As far as who is doing what to whom, I really don't think that it is something you should be sharing with random strangers regardless of wheather they have a ***** or a ******. A gay freind of mine brings a beard to magic games and tells everyone that she is his girlfreind when she is actually his boyfreind's sister. I in no way endorse this kind of behaviour.
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw:
SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
Yushang? Yushang, is that you, you sexist ****?
Seriously? Flame/Censor Evasion Infraction.
Seriously, how many other forums did you spam, and why does it seem like you've used otherwise inactive accounts with zero posts to post the essay? Is it that you don't want to have it associated with your main account? Afraid that poor compositional skills will reflect on your reputation?
quotes from star city forums
"Wow I didn't know I was being graded on this. An english teacher did proof read this for me. She would of faild me if I was in her class, not due to content, but on grammer. Thanks for your concern though. I was trying to reflect the style of Lincoln's address. I was also trying to be very polite around a subject that is very close to my heart. I also didn't know what kind of reception the general concepts in this would get. oh by the way, I never refered to women as angels. Some time you really should read Lincoln's address before commenting. Eather that or read the post you're so graciously commenting on. Thanx Love."
So have you read the post yet?
Double-Post Warning.