Okay according to the article, WOTC has and will continue to debate the extent to which planeswalkers can be dealt with. However, since planeswalkers are just another type of permanent, despite the extra flavor and mystic rarity, I'm sure that if 'destroy target planeswalker' were printed, other type of effects would follow, such as tutors, graveyard effects, etc. If this is true though, what role should the colors play? If I'm not being articulate enough, here are a few examples:
White - Since white is about community, it could get cards which create/protect the community.
Planeswalker Gathering :2mana::symw::symw:
Sorcery
Search your libary for a Planeswalker, reveal it, and put that card into your hand. Shuffle your library.
Red - Burn spells already interact with planeswalkers on a daily basis.
Black - Black is probably the color where 'destroy target planeswalker' would be, although graveyard shenanigans could be held. Black would actually be interesting, since it could maintain a sort of love/hate relationship with planeswalkers, forcing them to work with black not out of 'loyalty' but servitude.
Slavery of the Soul :symb::symb::symb:
Sorcery
Return a creature or planeswalker from your graveyard to play. If you returned a creature this way, put a -1/-1 counter on it. If you returned a planeswalker this way, remove a loyalty counter from it.
Green - Since green is about growth, we could continue with doubling season effects. The difference between White and Green is that while white could bring planeswalkers together, green would only seek to strengthen the bonds which already exist:
Nature's Anchor :2mana::symg::symg:
Creature - Avatar
Whenever Nature's Anchor is put into a graveyard from play, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature or a loyalty counter on target planeswalker.
4/4
Another example (and one which could be shared with white):
Duty Before Rest :symgw::symgw:
Instant
If a permanent with a counter on it would leave play, return that permanent to play and remove a counter from it.
Blue - Umm...I'm actually stumped. The best I can come up with is:
Denial of Resources :symu::symu:
Instant
Counter target nonland permanent.
Denial of Resources :symu::symu:
Instant
Counter target nonland permanent.
Counter target non-instant, non-sorcery spell.
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That article really annoyed me. Apparently we "didn't notice" that riftsweeper answered suspend. Of course we did! That didn't mean the card didn't suck. Suspend just wasn't really worth hosing. And apparently a "Destroy target planeswalker" card would be interpreted as "Destroy target player". This sort of thinking by wizards depresses me :(.
As for the cards in the OP: meh. They're fine flavourwise. I don't see the problem.
That article really annoyed me. Apparently we "didn't notice" that riftsweeper answered suspend. Of course we did! That didn't mean the card didn't suck. Suspend just wasn't really worth hosing. And apparently a "Destroy target planeswalker" card would be interpreted as "Destroy target player". This sort of thinking by wizards depresses me :(.
As for the cards in the OP: meh. They're fine flavourwise. I don't see the problem.
Well, we did, as in people who follow Magic and read articles on the internet, but there are still quite a lot of people who play around their kitchen tables casually that might not make the connection. I think those are the people he was referring to. There are people out there for whom Magic is a once in a while thing that they enjoy but don't really follow.
Suspend was certainly worth hosing, especially Aeon Chronicler and Lotus Bloom during Ravnica/Time Spiral Standard.
Divine Thunder 1W
Instant
Remove target planeswalker from the game.
That's how I'd print a simple answer. The mana cost is debatable, but it's an obvious answer with no flavor issues. Afterall, when a planeswalker runs out of loyalty, it leaves anyway.
Denial of Resources :symu::symu:
Instant
Counter target nonland permanent.
Thoughts?
1) Since when did playing a land use the stack OR pass priority...?
2) Since when did play permanents? Objects on the stack are SPELLS.
3) You want "Counter target non-sorcery, non-instant spell"
Also lawl @ people saying riftsweeper sucks. He was EVERYWHERES when I was in GP Montreal. Seriously, day 1 he ate ancestral visions like no tomorrow.
@ Flaming Affinity, I totally agree with your card, thats actually what I was thinking, I'm surprised they didn't mention it in the article.
I think part of the fun of magic is figuring out cards that work well with and against other cards. And thats part of the way you grow as a new player is discovering those interactions. I disagree with people being force-fed removal. If there needed to be an answer to planeswalkers it should be
"Remove all counters from target permanent" or "destroy target permanent with a counter on it" or "permanents can't gain or lose counters" or something of the sort. I think "destroy target planeswalker" is too limited and too blatant.
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Originally Posted by PolarBearGod
I would hate to be the people who try and keep everything secretive about new sets and stuff. Magic players are like crack fiends for info on new stuff - myself included I guess.:rolleyes:
I would imagine part of the reason Wizards is reticent to make cards that aim directly at Planeswalkers is because there are only nine of them, in contrast to the hundreds of cards in each other type. While most if not all are at least casually playable, printing something that swings only at planeswalkers is a big silver bullet due to their relatively limited exposure, and anything reasonably costed would end up being a sideboard staple.
To that end, Wizards in my estimation would be better at focusing on keeping planeswalkers in play. It's all well and good to debate hosing them, but support shouldn't be out of the question, either. A simple cheap artifact that you pitch to put a loyalty counter on, maybe. I'm not against silver bullets in the deck of the planeswalker player themselves, because the chances are less so it would be a dead card.
I agree that focusing on how well the planeswalker gets along with you is an interesting way of describing the interaction.
1) Since when did playing a land use the stack OR pass priority...?
2) Since when did play permanents? Objects on the stack are SPELLS.
3) You want "Counter target non-sorcery, non-instant spell"
Also lawl @ people saying riftsweeper sucks. He was EVERYWHERES when I was in GP Montreal. Seriously, day 1 he ate ancestral visions like no tomorrow.
It could also be worded:
Denial of Resources :symu::symu:
Instant
Counter target permanent spell.
Denial of Resources :symu::symu:
Instant
Counter target permanent spell.
While total correct on a technical/template basis, it just looks weird. Permanent spells? A whole lot of players would give that a weird look. I don't think they should print the card with either template, but if they did, I'd go with "Non-instant, non-sorcery."
Either way, it's ugly.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
I did not cost the spell, only 'corrected' the wording, but I agree with the UU cost.(knowing wizards they would probably print it at 2U or :1mana::sym2u::sym2u: or something)
Okay according to the article, WOTC has and will continue to debate the extent to which planeswalkers can be dealt with. However, since planeswalkers are just another type of permanent, despite the extra flavor and mystic rarity, I'm sure that if 'destroy target planeswalker' were printed, other type of effects would follow, such as tutors, graveyard effects, etc. If this is true though, what role should the colors play? If I'm not being articulate enough, here are a few examples:
White - Since white is about community, it could get cards which create/protect the community.
Planeswalker Gathering :2mana::symw::symw:
Sorcery
Search your libary for a Planeswalker, reveal it, and put that card into your hand. Shuffle your library.
Red - Burn spells already interact with planeswalkers on a daily basis.
Black - Black is probably the color where 'destroy target planeswalker' would be, although graveyard shenanigans could be held. Black would actually be interesting, since it could maintain a sort of love/hate relationship with planeswalkers, forcing them to work with black not out of 'loyalty' but servitude.
Slavery of the Soul :symb::symb::symb:
Sorcery
Return a creature or planeswalker from your graveyard to play. If you returned a creature this way, put a -1/-1 counter on it. If you returned a planeswalker this way, remove a loyalty counter from it.
Green - Since green is about growth, we could continue with doubling season effects. The difference between White and Green is that while white could bring planeswalkers together, green would only seek to strengthen the bonds which already exist:
Nature's Anchor :2mana::symg::symg:
Creature - Avatar
Whenever Nature's Anchor is put into a graveyard from play, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature or a loyalty counter on target planeswalker.
4/4
Another example (and one which could be shared with white):
Duty Before Rest :symgw::symgw:
Instant
If a permanent with a counter on it would leave play, return that permanent to play and remove a counter from it.
Blue - Umm...I'm actually stumped. The best I can come up with is:
Denial of Resources :symu::symu:
Instant
Counter target nonland permanent.
Thoughts?
Counter target non-instant, non-sorcery spell.
If this card were played, it would break Magic. Permanents only exist in play. Reprinting Counterspell? Oh yeah, just what non-control wants to see.
As for the cards in the OP: meh. They're fine flavourwise. I don't see the problem.
Well, we did, as in people who follow Magic and read articles on the internet, but there are still quite a lot of people who play around their kitchen tables casually that might not make the connection. I think those are the people he was referring to. There are people out there for whom Magic is a once in a while thing that they enjoy but don't really follow.
Suspend was certainly worth hosing, especially Aeon Chronicler and Lotus Bloom during Ravnica/Time Spiral Standard.
Divine Thunder 1W
Instant
Remove target planeswalker from the game.
That's how I'd print a simple answer. The mana cost is debatable, but it's an obvious answer with no flavor issues. Afterall, when a planeswalker runs out of loyalty, it leaves anyway.
1) Since when did playing a land use the stack OR pass priority...?
2) Since when did play permanents? Objects on the stack are SPELLS.
3) You want "Counter target non-sorcery, non-instant spell"
Also lawl @ people saying riftsweeper sucks. He was EVERYWHERES when I was in GP Montreal. Seriously, day 1 he ate ancestral visions like no tomorrow.
I think part of the fun of magic is figuring out cards that work well with and against other cards. And thats part of the way you grow as a new player is discovering those interactions. I disagree with people being force-fed removal. If there needed to be an answer to planeswalkers it should be
"Remove all counters from target permanent" or "destroy target permanent with a counter on it" or "permanents can't gain or lose counters" or something of the sort. I think "destroy target planeswalker" is too limited and too blatant.
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Wolf Rider of the Selesnya Guild!
Join the Selesnya Guild!
Signature by: me
Awesome Avatar by IloveAtogs Thanks!
Quoted for truthery!
To that end, Wizards in my estimation would be better at focusing on keeping planeswalkers in play. It's all well and good to debate hosing them, but support shouldn't be out of the question, either. A simple cheap artifact that you pitch to put a loyalty counter on, maybe. I'm not against silver bullets in the deck of the planeswalker player themselves, because the chances are less so it would be a dead card.
I agree that focusing on how well the planeswalker gets along with you is an interesting way of describing the interaction.
The printing of that card would probably be one of the worst decisions ever by Magic R&D. We do not need, as another put it, Counterspell back.
It could also be worded:
Denial of Resources :symu::symu:
Instant
Counter target permanent spell.
While total correct on a technical/template basis, it just looks weird. Permanent spells? A whole lot of players would give that a weird look. I don't think they should print the card with either template, but if they did, I'd go with "Non-instant, non-sorcery."
Either way, it's ugly.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
This is a little overcosted for the luxury of hitting planeswalkers. Negate was common, after all.
Well: Remove Soul.
(which sees play in T2)
I did not cost the spell, only 'corrected' the wording, but I agree with the UU cost.(knowing wizards they would probably print it at 2U or :1mana::sym2u::sym2u: or something)
I also think that wizards would use my wording because its shorter, more room for flavor text, and is correct.
But who knows? hint: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=1193" rel="nofollow"This guy.