Why don't you even try out the cards before making such stereotypical judgments like the ones above?
And Coldsnap is somewhat of a powerful set. Go ahead, I don't care if you lose my respect for me.
What's wrong with being a spike? Why do you assume all these negative things about spikes before you make your post? Honestly, quit talking **** at us because we don't like a set. This set ****ing blows, it's really that simple. If you can't see that, or if you think I'm "a narrow minded spike", I don't really give a ****. If anyone is going to say this set is powerful, I'm going to call them out, because it just plain isn't. This really isn't rocket science.
It's problem was the same as... Saviors. Most of its cards were based off of things that don't happen in constructed. Saviors was Full or near full hands and Coldsnap was hungry permenents staying in play for many turns. Outside of competitve constructed format, Coldsnap plays fine. But those are not Spike areas.
Okay, it's bad.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why should I boast? The bards will do it for me-and with music"-Ertai, wizard adept
I like big creatures and I cannot lie
You other players can't deny
That when a beast walks in with an itty bitty cost
And your blockers are all lost
You get removal!
Coldsnap is not a failure. Just because it doesn't have fifty chase rares doesn't mean it's a crap set. If you think that, you're obviously a Spike who doesn't appreciate the mindset of Timmies and Johnnies. Cards like Karplusan Minotaur and Garza Zol, Plague Queen that the tournament players will whine about will be made into deck centerpieces by people in the casual crowd and maybe even become personal favorites to hundreds of kids. In the meantime, you tournament players can shell out ten bucks apiece for Ohran Vipers while the rest of us enjoy the many budget delights available, such as Martyrs and Snow duals.
Honestly, though, what are people even arguing about? I think this conversation is over. The verdict? Coldsnap is a casual set. There are a few cards that'll see some play, but overall, not the greatest set for those of us looking out for potential constructed gems. It is a set meant for nostalgia and casual play.
What's wrong with being a spike? Why do you assume all these negative things about spikes before you make your post? Honestly, quit talking **** at us because we don't like a set. This set ****ing blows, it's really that simple. If you can't see that, or if you think I'm "a narrow minded spike", I don't really give a ****. If anyone is going to say this set is powerful, I'm going to call them out, because it just plain isn't. This really isn't rocket science.
Woah woah woah, big guy. Can you really refute the claim that spikes are narrow-minded while in the same breath declaring the set irredeemable trash because it doesn't live up to standards that only apply to spikes? Hey, why do people assume all these bad, mean, hurtful things about spikes? Could the attitude that you yourself are demonstrating have anything to do with it? Could it be that maybe, just maybe there are one or two magic players in this wide world of ours that don't feel the need to prove their superiority to the lowly plebians by playing cards, and who are alienated by your inability to accept their choice to play in a style of their own choosing, rather than the one that you have chosen? There's nothing wrong with playing competitively, and there's nothing wrong with disliking a set because it provides little for the competitive player, but there's nothing wrong with playing for fun and liking a set's casual cards either.
Hay kiddies, did you know that the quality of your stance on an issue can be measured in direct proportion to how many super-mature curses you throw out while arguing?
Woah woah woah, big guy. Can you really refute the claim that spikes are narrow-minded while in the same breath declaring the set irredeemable trash because it doesn't live up to standards that only apply to spikes? Hey, why do people assume all these bad, mean, hurtful things about spikes? Could the attitude that you yourself are demonstrating have anything to do with it? Could it be that maybe, just maybe there are one or two magic players in this wide world of ours that don't feel the need to prove their superiority to the lowly plebians by playing cards, and who are alienated by your inability to accept their choice to play in a style of their own choosing, rather than the one that you have chosen? There's nothing wrong with playing competitively, and there's nothing wrong with disliking a set because it provides little for the competitive player, but there's nothing wrong with playing for fun and liking a set's casual cards either.
Hay kiddies, did you know that the quality of your stance on an issue can be measured in direct proportion to how many super-mature curses you throw out while arguing?
The problem is, this isn't the first time this has come out. Myself and other spikes out there constantly take crap from random casual players insulting us for our narrow-mindedness. I see it all the time on here. Casual players here just have this attitude that since spikes like tournament cards, they must be from the devil or something. Honestly, just because you like to play subpar cards doesn't mean you're better than me in any way. Every thread about a set's quality etc just devolves into lame spike-bashing, and I'm just sick of it. Sorry if I came off as angry.
My opinion is, Coldsnap is still a failure. A good set should have things for every kind of player. Timmy, Johnny, Vorthos, Spike, etc should all like a certain set. The fact that Spikes can't stand Coldsnap should pretty much show that the set is a failure. A block like Ravnica is universally regarded as one of the best ever because it appealed to all types of players. Coldsnap only appeals to kitchen table magic players, which makes it a failure in my eyes.
My opinion is, Coldsnap is still a failure. A good set should have things for every kind of player. Timmy, Johnny, Vorthos, Spike, etc should all like a certain set. The fact that Spikes can't stand Coldsnap should pretty much show that the set is a failure. A block like Ravnica is universally regarded as one of the best ever because it appealed to all types of players. Coldsnap only appeals to kitchen table magic players, which makes it a failure in my eyes.
I understand where you're coming from, though I think failure is rather harsh condemnation. I've definitely been a bit dissatisfied with winning product from Coldsnap, especially given that my local shop won't let us bring our own packs to FNMs, and I'm not even a spike by any stretch. Still, this is the sort of thing where you just have to take the good with the bad, and appreciate the fact that there will be times when a particular group of players won't be as happy as others. We're coming off the tail end of a block whose dual-lands drove up the price of playing t2 significantly, and the many casual players who still enjoy playing in tournaments without being serious about winning, including yours truly, ended up suffering because of it. Still, I enjoy seeing the variety of unique decks that the format generated, even if I don't want to make the investment to play in it myself. Coldsnap is far from perfect, but we ought to give wizards some breathing room, given that this is the first time that the fourth set in a year has been anything but reprints and un-cards. The only truly preventable mistake on their part was forcing it upon limited players like they have.
Quote from Flamebuster »
Adn those Kitchen Table Players represent about, ohhhh, 90% of all magic players in the world? YEah. About that.
Don't be hatin', yo. Here we had some good spike-timmy-johnny dialogue (or is that tria-?) going on and you have to go and be messin' it up. Not cool, brotha'.
This thread is using Spike is if it was an insult. When someoen says that they are a spike, it is assumed that they are good player/deckbuilder/theorist. When someone says they are a Timmy it is assumed that they are a bad player/deckbuilder/theorist. When someoen syas they are a johnny it is assumed they are a horrible deckbuilder, while being anywhere from a bad to good player/theorist. Just cause peoep lthink these cards are good doesn't mean they are.
The person who said Spikes have to high standards may very well be the dumbest thing I've read this week. our standards are good enough to see play in decks that are competitive. Nothing from coldsnap with a few very minor exceptiosn could do that. If you do not play T2 and or do poorly in that format, then don't try and argue that cards to weak for the format will see play because they wont. The person who said I should do some testing should know I have tested. i test everything before I judge (well not the jankiest of the janky).
I`m a spike and I like the set(you can call me bad all you want to) but its still not what I hoped for(rav block caliber)its a 155 card set what did you expect if you do the math it would equal rav in the amout of good/crap cards.
Though I have to agree casual players will like this set more then tournement players anyday.(I still would rather draft RGD anyday)
This thread is using Spike is if it was an insult. When someoen says that they are a spike, it is assumed that they are good player/deckbuilder/theorist. When someone says they are a Timmy it is assumed that they are a bad player/deckbuilder/theorist. When someoen syas they are a johnny it is assumed they are a horrible deckbuilder, while being anywhere from a bad to good player/theorist. Just cause peoep lthink these cards are good doesn't mean they are.
That is the dumbest thing I have read in a week. What is hard at getting the game winning cards and shuffling them together and being CALLED a winner. I made a Tibor and Lumia deck for fun. And you know what. I've even won som FNM. Why? Because I know what I'm doing and I'm a Johnny. Please don't call my kind or assume horrible deck builders when we create many, many strategies even some of the ones that have seen tourn. play. I like magic because I like to think.
Please back off of the Player skill chart you have designed in your head. Thanks.
Personally, I can really see Mishra's Bauble making competitive play. Does anyone remember back when Urza's Bauble was out? It effectively gave ya the ability to have a 56 card deck. But, I dunno, I might just be having a case of wishful thinking.
No offense to anyone, but honestly the tired rants about a set sucking ass before even playing with it are getting, well, tired. Very very tired.
I can remember Mirrodin: "Wow, Affinity is such a total waste of cardboard." I can remember CHK (in this case, the complaints were somewhat justified but calling it the worst set since Homelands was, well, WAY OFF). I can remember Ravnica: "OMG this set was designed for draft, there's nothing worthwhile for constructed! And the Selesnya are totally unplayable (turned out they were the best guild out of the set)". I can remember Guildpact; even before the spoiler was completed people were crying about how horrible the Orzhov were (once again, they turned out to be the best guild of the set), and they were calling it a horrible set all the way up to its release day. I can remember Dissension: "Azorius Blows! The only valuable part of the set is the duals!".
Now, Cynical Squirrel and SRdude, you are good players, maybe good deckbuilders, no one is questioning that. But you're not the ones who are going to break this set, if it is in any way breakable. Just wait for Mike Flores/SCG's random name of the week to tell you what's good and what to play, and until then just stop embarassing yourselves on the forum.
I can remember Mirrodin: "Wow, Affinity is such a total waste of cardboard."
When did anyone ever say this? Could you link me to this please? If not, please stop making up random crap for the sake of argument.
I can remember Ravnica: "OMG this set was designed for draft, there's nothing worthwhile for constructed!
Uhh...like nobody ever said that. Ravnica had tons of cards for constructed, and it's pretty easy to tell right off the bat. Stop making stuff up, and try actually using facts when you try to debate something like this.
Now, Cynical Squirrel and SRdude, you are good players, maybe good deckbuilders, no one is questioning that. But you're not the ones who are going to break this set, if it is in any way breakable. Just wait for Mike Flores/SCG's random name of the week to tell you what's good and what to play, and until then just stop embarassing yourselves on the forum.
I'm going to just ignore your obnoxious and immature potshots at SRDude and I, and instead just tell you that it isn't rocket science to tell if a set is bad or not. Really, most good deckbuilders can tell if a card is playable right when its printed, and I am one of them. I have a good track record with these things. People like you are exactly what I was talking about when I said people talk a lot of **** at me because I'm a "spike". Instead of actually trying to debate the topic with any kind of thought process, you spurt out one of the most retarded posts I have ever seen, all culminating in the typical terrible deckbuilder "Lolz go talk to flores j00 n00b" line that every arrogant and egotistical casual player has said before. Just because you enjoy playing piece of crap decks like 4 color Samurai control, and like to play with bland cards that deal with cumulate upkeep and snow doesn't make you any better than me. So please, do everyone a favor and shut your face, and let people who actually want to debate the topic at hand post.
anybody wanna know what i think is stupid? well i will let you know anyway.
What i think is really stupid is that when the thread that was entitled " Why does Kamigawa suck so bad? " or something like that became a spike bashing thread, and then there is this thread, becoming a spike bashing thread, the original poster wanted to know who was with him in thinking the set was a failure or who thought otherwise. Now to me that means that he wanted opinions so if Cynical Squirrel and SRDude think the set blows it is their god given right to think that and post it. I am not a spike i play casual 90% of the time and the other 10% i actually do spend time in FNM's and local constructed tournys etc.. however if a spike doesnt like a given set and voices his opinion, the casual player and the johnny and the timmy and the vorthos has no right to get pissed and start calling them stupid spikes etc... its not fair to them as people, you have your opinion and they have theirs, let it go. Oh and as far as the set goes i dont hate it but it did dissapoint me somewhat. Well thats just my 2cents
Honestly, though, what are people even arguing about? I think this conversation is over. The verdict? Coldsnap is a casual set. There are a few cards that'll see some play, but overall, not the greatest set for those of us looking out for potential constructed gems. It is a set meant for nostalgia and casual play.
Arguing is fun. Plus, there's the whole "You-can't-be-right-if-I-am" thing...
Quote from Cynical Squirrel »
Quote:
I can remember Ravnica: "OMG this set was designed for draft, there's nothing worthwhile for constructed!
Uhh...like nobody ever said that. Ravnica had tons of cards for constructed, and it's pretty easy to tell right off the bat. Stop making stuff up, and try actually using facts when you try to debate something like this.
[INSERT VOUCH-AGE FOR KARBONAUT LARSON HERE] I remember someone saying that too.
Quote from Cynical Squirrel »
Really, most good deckbuilders can tell if a card is playable right when its printed,
Wrong.
And, people, there is just as much Johnny/Timmy bashing here as there is Spike bashing.
It really isn't wrong at all. I can easily identify cards that are playable and cards that aren't without having to do 5 hours of testing. It really isn't nearly as difficult as people think it is.
If this thread doesn't get back on topic and soon, I'm either going to lock it or start dishing out warnings or both. Please keep things civil and on-topic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...because without beer, things do not seem to go as well."
Web Whiner: "Ohmigawd, Coldsnap sucks! Let's all ***** about it because WotC employees are putting guns to our heads and making us buy it and play with it!"
"...uh, no they aren't. If you don't like it, don't buy it."
Concerned Competitor: "Really? But what about them using CCC draft for the tournaments and stuff?"
"If it bugs you that much, then don't play in the tournaments. Go buy some RGD packs and draft with some friends instead. Or just save your money for Time Spiral."
Cardboard Crackwhore: "But I need to buy more Magic packs! It's the addictive ink, man!"
"Get some RGD packs then. It's not like Coldsnap makes those sets any less awesome."
...for the recond, I really don't care about Coldsnap much. I'm not getting any packs of it, but at least it probably won't turn the game into a snorefest *cough*Kamigawa*cough*
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The imagination is not a State: it is the Human existence itself." - William Blake
What's wrong with being a spike? Why do you assume all these negative things about spikes before you make your post? Honestly, quit talking **** at us because we don't like a set. This set ****ing blows, it's really that simple. If you can't see that, or if you think I'm "a narrow minded spike", I don't really give a ****. If anyone is going to say this set is powerful, I'm going to call them out, because it just plain isn't. This really isn't rocket science.
It's problem was the same as... Saviors. Most of its cards were based off of things that don't happen in constructed. Saviors was Full or near full hands and Coldsnap was hungry permenents staying in play for many turns. Outside of competitve constructed format, Coldsnap plays fine. But those are not Spike areas.
Okay, it's bad.
I like big creatures and I cannot lie
You other players can't deny
That when a beast walks in with an itty bitty cost
And your blockers are all lost
You get removal!
Click here for my blog
Click here for my twitter
Woah woah woah, big guy. Can you really refute the claim that spikes are narrow-minded while in the same breath declaring the set irredeemable trash because it doesn't live up to standards that only apply to spikes? Hey, why do people assume all these bad, mean, hurtful things about spikes? Could the attitude that you yourself are demonstrating have anything to do with it? Could it be that maybe, just maybe there are one or two magic players in this wide world of ours that don't feel the need to prove their superiority to the lowly plebians by playing cards, and who are alienated by your inability to accept their choice to play in a style of their own choosing, rather than the one that you have chosen? There's nothing wrong with playing competitively, and there's nothing wrong with disliking a set because it provides little for the competitive player, but there's nothing wrong with playing for fun and liking a set's casual cards either.
Hay kiddies, did you know that the quality of your stance on an issue can be measured in direct proportion to how many super-mature curses you throw out while arguing?
The problem is, this isn't the first time this has come out. Myself and other spikes out there constantly take crap from random casual players insulting us for our narrow-mindedness. I see it all the time on here. Casual players here just have this attitude that since spikes like tournament cards, they must be from the devil or something. Honestly, just because you like to play subpar cards doesn't mean you're better than me in any way. Every thread about a set's quality etc just devolves into lame spike-bashing, and I'm just sick of it. Sorry if I came off as angry.
My opinion is, Coldsnap is still a failure. A good set should have things for every kind of player. Timmy, Johnny, Vorthos, Spike, etc should all like a certain set. The fact that Spikes can't stand Coldsnap should pretty much show that the set is a failure. A block like Ravnica is universally regarded as one of the best ever because it appealed to all types of players. Coldsnap only appeals to kitchen table magic players, which makes it a failure in my eyes.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I understand where you're coming from, though I think failure is rather harsh condemnation. I've definitely been a bit dissatisfied with winning product from Coldsnap, especially given that my local shop won't let us bring our own packs to FNMs, and I'm not even a spike by any stretch. Still, this is the sort of thing where you just have to take the good with the bad, and appreciate the fact that there will be times when a particular group of players won't be as happy as others. We're coming off the tail end of a block whose dual-lands drove up the price of playing t2 significantly, and the many casual players who still enjoy playing in tournaments without being serious about winning, including yours truly, ended up suffering because of it. Still, I enjoy seeing the variety of unique decks that the format generated, even if I don't want to make the investment to play in it myself. Coldsnap is far from perfect, but we ought to give wizards some breathing room, given that this is the first time that the fourth set in a year has been anything but reprints and un-cards. The only truly preventable mistake on their part was forcing it upon limited players like they have.
Don't be hatin', yo. Here we had some good spike-timmy-johnny dialogue (or is that tria-?) going on and you have to go and be messin' it up. Not cool, brotha'.
The person who said Spikes have to high standards may very well be the dumbest thing I've read this week. our standards are good enough to see play in decks that are competitive. Nothing from coldsnap with a few very minor exceptiosn could do that. If you do not play T2 and or do poorly in that format, then don't try and argue that cards to weak for the format will see play because they wont. The person who said I should do some testing should know I have tested. i test everything before I judge (well not the jankiest of the janky).
Though I have to agree casual players will like this set more then tournement players anyday.(I still would rather draft RGD anyday)
Click here for my blog
Click here for my twitter
That is the dumbest thing I have read in a week. What is hard at getting the game winning cards and shuffling them together and being CALLED a winner. I made a Tibor and Lumia deck for fun. And you know what. I've even won som FNM. Why? Because I know what I'm doing and I'm a Johnny. Please don't call my kind or assume horrible deck builders when we create many, many strategies even some of the ones that have seen tourn. play. I like magic because I like to think.
Please back off of the Player skill chart you have designed in your head. Thanks.
Werd,
I can remember Mirrodin: "Wow, Affinity is such a total waste of cardboard." I can remember CHK (in this case, the complaints were somewhat justified but calling it the worst set since Homelands was, well, WAY OFF). I can remember Ravnica: "OMG this set was designed for draft, there's nothing worthwhile for constructed! And the Selesnya are totally unplayable (turned out they were the best guild out of the set)". I can remember Guildpact; even before the spoiler was completed people were crying about how horrible the Orzhov were (once again, they turned out to be the best guild of the set), and they were calling it a horrible set all the way up to its release day. I can remember Dissension: "Azorius Blows! The only valuable part of the set is the duals!".
Now, Cynical Squirrel and SRdude, you are good players, maybe good deckbuilders, no one is questioning that. But you're not the ones who are going to break this set, if it is in any way breakable. Just wait for Mike Flores/SCG's random name of the week to tell you what's good and what to play, and until then just stop embarassing yourselves on the forum.
When did anyone ever say this? Could you link me to this please? If not, please stop making up random crap for the sake of argument.
Uhh...like nobody ever said that. Ravnica had tons of cards for constructed, and it's pretty easy to tell right off the bat. Stop making stuff up, and try actually using facts when you try to debate something like this.
I'm going to just ignore your obnoxious and immature potshots at SRDude and I, and instead just tell you that it isn't rocket science to tell if a set is bad or not. Really, most good deckbuilders can tell if a card is playable right when its printed, and I am one of them. I have a good track record with these things. People like you are exactly what I was talking about when I said people talk a lot of **** at me because I'm a "spike". Instead of actually trying to debate the topic with any kind of thought process, you spurt out one of the most retarded posts I have ever seen, all culminating in the typical terrible deckbuilder "Lolz go talk to flores j00 n00b" line that every arrogant and egotistical casual player has said before. Just because you enjoy playing piece of crap decks like 4 color Samurai control, and like to play with bland cards that deal with cumulate upkeep and snow doesn't make you any better than me. So please, do everyone a favor and shut your face, and let people who actually want to debate the topic at hand post.
Thanks!
What i think is really stupid is that when the thread that was entitled " Why does Kamigawa suck so bad? " or something like that became a spike bashing thread, and then there is this thread, becoming a spike bashing thread, the original poster wanted to know who was with him in thinking the set was a failure or who thought otherwise. Now to me that means that he wanted opinions so if Cynical Squirrel and SRDude think the set blows it is their god given right to think that and post it. I am not a spike i play casual 90% of the time and the other 10% i actually do spend time in FNM's and local constructed tournys etc.. however if a spike doesnt like a given set and voices his opinion, the casual player and the johnny and the timmy and the vorthos has no right to get pissed and start calling them stupid spikes etc... its not fair to them as people, you have your opinion and they have theirs, let it go. Oh and as far as the set goes i dont hate it but it did dissapoint me somewhat. Well thats just my 2cents
B0SS
Thanks to Avatar for the Banner
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=13742 ----- my trade thread
Blaine is a pain.... and that is the truth....
choo, choo, choo, choo....... and i am afraid that... is the truth.
Arguing is fun. Plus, there's the whole "You-can't-be-right-if-I-am" thing...
[INSERT VOUCH-AGE FOR KARBONAUT LARSON HERE] I remember someone saying that too.
Wrong.
And, people, there is just as much Johnny/Timmy bashing here as there is Spike bashing.
It really isn't wrong at all. I can easily identify cards that are playable and cards that aren't without having to do 5 hours of testing. It really isn't nearly as difficult as people think it is.
Oh, WERD,
The answer is yes and no.
It doesn't take a genius that cards such as Lightning Helix, Putrefy, Loxodon Hierarch, Electrolyze, etc. etc. to see that they'll see lots of play.
On the other hand, there have been numerous cards that have slipped through the cracks and weren't really recognized as good cards until months, even years later. Such was the case with Psychatog, Cabal Therapy, Tooth and Nail Aether Vial, Compulsive Research, Ebony Owl Netsuke, Yosei, the Morning Star, Debtors' Knell, and to an extent, Remand. Yes, Remand. I remember people like IBTG saying that Remand wasn't good and was a bad version of Memory Lapse. But we all know how Remand came to be, now do we?
"...uh, no they aren't. If you don't like it, don't buy it."
Concerned Competitor: "Really? But what about them using CCC draft for the tournaments and stuff?"
"If it bugs you that much, then don't play in the tournaments. Go buy some RGD packs and draft with some friends instead. Or just save your money for Time Spiral."
Cardboard Crackwhore: "But I need to buy more Magic packs! It's the addictive ink, man!"
"Get some RGD packs then. It's not like Coldsnap makes those sets any less awesome."
...for the recond, I really don't care about Coldsnap much. I'm not getting any packs of it, but at least it probably won't turn the game into a snorefest *cough*Kamigawa*cough*
"Stoned players can't attack, block, or play spells or abilities."