MTG Salvation

In case you didn't realize, didn't remember, or didn't really care, September 1st is *gasp* two days away.

September 1st is the date for the next Banned/Restricted announcements for all the different sanctioned formats of our beloved Magic: The Gathering card game.

So with all the constant *****ing complaining whining discussion about Umezawa's Jitte [EDIT: Seriously, there's about ten threads about Jitte being banned in block or other formats.], I thought it would be high time to start the speculation and get a head start on it.


Honestly, I'm shocked someone else hasn't started this yet (maybe you did forget).


The format that will likely recieve the most attention is Extended. With the upcoming rotation, Pro Tour Los Angeles, and Pro Tour Honolulu's Qualifying Season this announcement will have a major impact on all three of these. The speculation (hope) is that the DCI/WotC will not take the chance of Extended becoming dominated by Affinity much like Mirrodin Block was and Standard was until March 1st of this year.


So with that, the possibilities (along with my opinions even though they mean squat).......

KAMIGAWA BLOCK:

Umezawa's Jitte -- There's not that many Pro Tour: Los Angeles Qualifiers left and we have seen that Jitte has balanced the format so that it isn't completely dull instead of ruining it like the mistakes from Mirrodin Block did. Really, even if it deserved to be banned (which it dosen't), there would be no point to doing so.


STANDARD:

Umezawa's Jitte -- Let's not forget that Standard is rotating once Ravnica comes out. Frankly, I see no reason to eliminate Jitte in Type II. There is no doubt that Jitte is strong, but *again* it is not as insane as the Clamp.


EXTENDED:

Arcbound Ravager, Disciple of the Vault, Artifact Lands -- It is foreseeable that WotC would drop the banhammer on all of these just like they did in Standard. It is possible that EVIL.dec also known as Ravager Affinity will take over Extended. Most of the best possible hate will be leaving the format and thus strengthens affinity even more. Remember Pro Tour Columbus last October when Canali piloted it to a first place finish despite facing such hate. He was beating Energy Flux, Pernicious Deed, and other such hate. Many pros from that Tour even admitted that they had considered those same cards and thus discounted affinity entirely and thus packed very little or no hate. Some even said that if they had thought that far ahead, they would have played Ravager Affinity. Thus, it can happen. Will DCI nip it in the bud and nuke the whole set?

Personally, I think any combination of Ravager and Disciple would be enough. The lands can stay.

Æther Vial -- Silly as it sounds, there is a legitimate argument to ban Vial from Extended. Combined with Goblins, Affinity, or other aggro based decks it does tend to be in-freaking-sane. It can often turn a game around on its own. I'll bet that it dosen't get banned, but it wouldn't surprise me very much if it did.

Eternal Witness -- Yeah, I know what you're thinking. "What the **** is that Underpants moron smoking?" Mary Jane, obviously, no I'm joking (or am I?). OK, back to Witness. We all know that Witness is bah-ro-ken. Does it make games unfair? Not really. Is it insane? No kidding, I just said it was broken.

There are players and writers who believe that it should have already been banned in Extended. They do make legitimate points to ban it (too many to recall all of them). There are also players and writers who believe that Witness banning is ludicrous, and they make just as many legitimate points about it.

If Eternal Witness was being discussed to be banned and if all the issues are even on whether or not it needs to go, it will probably stay at least another year. [SIDE NOTE: If it cost 2G instead of 1GG, I'd probably be begging to get rid of this as it would be too easy to splash for, also because you damn well know Ravager Affinity players would find a way to splash for it........jerks)]

While Witness does tend to win games with its recursion, it makes the game more fun and interesting rather than miserable and boring. I doubt it was even discussed let alone that it actually will be banned.

Tooth and Nail -- There's no legitimate reason to ban it. I just hate Tooth and Nail more than most people hate Ravager Affinity, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings any if they did ban it.

Since Extended will recieve the most impact, I have included a poll asking what, if anything, you believe will be banned in Extended.


LEGACY and VINTAGE:

I will admit that I don't know very much about these two older formats. I am a little more familiar with Legacy than I am with Vintage, but not so much as to REALLY have a well thought-out opinion on either format. One can assume that there will be bannings in Legacy and bannings/restrictions in Vintage of Portal/Starter cards that will be legal come October.

Luckily, Qwerty made a thread called "Questioning the banned list" with discussion about cards currently on the banned list as well as speculation about what should be there.

I will also include the links to the WotC articles concerning the recent Vintage and Legacy championships which may provide some input. If any serious Legacy or Vintage players want to chime in, I will greatly appreciate it.

2005 Vintage Championship by Ted Knutson
2005 Legacy Championship by Zvi Mowshowitz



Discuss



Now



Come on now



Less reading, more posting

Nothing will be banned anywhere. They need to give the new Extended format time before banning anything in it. Right now, Affinity doesn't even look that hot to me, it seems like Goblins is just as fast, and a lot of decks can just outright beat it. Type 2 is fine right now, I don't think they have a problem with block.

EDIT: Although T2 would be better if they just banned Kamigawa block and Tooth and Nail, then had Ravnica + Mirrodin T2 with 9th Edition. I don't foresee this happening though.

That Legacy thread is VERY outdated, and the metagame is almost entirely different now. It is highly unlikely that anything from Legacy will get the boot, unless Wizards decides they really don't like Goblins and decide to ban Goblin Lackey or Aether Vial. Survival was discussed for awhile, but now it seems like nobody even plays Survival anymore since the decks are too expensive to build and difficult to pilot. With Goblins and Landstill being the top dogs, if anything is banned expect it to be from one of those decks (Lackey, Recruiter, Vial, and Standstill are all possible choices, but I don't think it's happening yet.)

EDIT: I'd like to see Skullclamp, Replenish, and Land Tax unbanned, but for some reason I don't see it happening. Oh, and Vampiric Tutor. :tongue3:

I know nothing about Vintage other than that a random card seems to get restricted every three months because of some deck I've never heard of.

I think one of 4 cards will be restricted in Vintage soon, but 3 would be due to WotC's stupidity. I won't say for fear of looking rediculously stupid, but I have a feeling one will go within the next 6 months.

Extended is going to watch WotC do what they did to Standard, and then possibly some more. WotC hates Ravager, and while it can be beat, it warps the entire format. Rav and Disciple are out of there, and possibly Arti Lands too. Eternal Witness is not broken, despite what everyone says. It's just a strong card. The only Goblins card I see any where near banning is Vial, since the rest of the deck is nowhere near unstoppable. Vial is simply a rediculous mana engine, and we all know how much WotC likes those....

personally i think it would be lovely if they unbanned ravenger in t2 for jsut a month

[SIDE NOTE: If it cost :2mana::symg: instead of :1mana::symg::symg:, I'd probably be begging to get rid of this as it would be too easy to splash for, also because you damn well know Ravager Affinity players would find a way to splash for it........jerks)]

Wow, a little sore here? Affinity is powerful, but not broken in Extended. One can easily hate it from the sideboard. You seem to have a rabid distaste for Affinity, which somewhat clouds your judgement.

Personally, I think that the environment is pretty stable in all formats, but I don't know too much about Vintage, so they may be on the receiving end of the ban.

i don't expect any changes to any of the formats. they will let affinity run rampant for a few months in extended and then reign it in if necessary. so i would do a write in on this poll for none of the above. give the format time to settle down and adjust to the rotation.

Quote from CynicalSquirrel »

That Legacy thread is VERY outdated, and the metagame is almost entirely different now. It is highly unlikely that anything from Legacy will get the boot, unless Wizards decides they really don't like Goblins and decide to ban Goblin Lackey or Aether Vial. Survival was discussed for awhile, but now it seems like nobody even plays Survival anymore since the decks are too expensive to build and difficult to pilot. With Goblins and Landstill being the top dogs, if anything is banned expect it to be from one of those decks (Lackey, Recruiter, Vial, and Standstill are all possible choices, but I don't think it's happening yet.)

EDIT: I'd like to see Skullclamp, Replenish, and Land Tax unbanned, but for some reason I don't see it happening. Oh, and Vampiric Tutor. :tongue3:

Yeah, I know its a little old, but it is a good starting point *plus I'm sure Q and Bel would greatly appreciate any opportunity to get more traffic in the Legacy forums* and that's what was needed.

Quote from PlatedOrnithoper »

Wow, a little sore here? Affinity is powerful, but not broken in Extended. One can easily hate it from the sideboard. You seem to have a rabid distaste for Affinity, which somewhat clouds your judgement.

Personally, I think that the environment is pretty stable in all formats, but I don't know too much about Vintage, so they may be on the receiving end of the ban.

No, I like affinity. Hell, I love affinity. If they had stopped at banning just Ravager and Disciple, or even just Ravager, on March 1st, I would have taken a fun Broodstar-Erayo, Soratami Ascendant affinity deck.

I just hate Ravager and the way it warped Standard.

Quote from CynicalSquirrel »

Nothing will be banned anywhere. They need to give the new Extended format time before banning anything in it. Right now, Affinity doesn't even look that hot to me, it seems like Goblins is just as fast, and a lot of decks can just outright beat it.

Quote from Lance »

As far as Extended, I don't like the idea of throwing down the banhammer on the post-rotation format, without giving players a chance to play it in a sanctioned enviroment.

Truthfully, I don't either, but I also believe that WotC will not want to take any chances either.

@CSquirrel: I agree with you that Goblins are great. In the Goblin-Ravager matchups that I have tested, if its best draw v. best draw....Ravager wins. If its average draw v. average draw.....Goblins win, but lose a few they should win due to random Disciple kills. Problem is.....Ravager has a lot more possible opening hands that can considered their best draw.

Write-in VOTE: No bans.

Vial. Vial is going to be RIDICULOUS, especially post rotation. It's been needing a ban for a year now, and it will probably get it.

Other then that though, Extended is gravy.

I hope they restrict Workshop in T1... a pipe dream, but a dream noneoftheless.

I'd be surprised if they changed a whole lot this time around. I'll vote for no bans.

I'm voting that no bans will happen. I hope they keep Vial and Witness in extended so I can play Crystal Witness that will be able to beat out gobs and affinity. w00t!!

I have no clue in the Ext portion. I will be really surprised if Jitte becomes banned (because I dont think it should be). Other than that I dont know. I totally forgot about the bannings. They should unban skullclamp in ext (joke)

Jitte wont get banned in KBC, guarenteed, it does not warp the format like Skullclamp or ThatBlockMechanicThatMustNotBeSpoken.dec

Since legacy is one of the few formats I will play (Until ravnica, Cok block sucks, as does any format where hero's demise is considered good and highly playable) here is the hopeful unbannings/restrictings I can see:

(Un-banned in Legacy)
Entomb (Honestly, help a brother out)
Gush (Without fastbond, it's not so ghey in gro, I don't see why it's banned in the firstplace)
Skullclamp (Only a maybe on this one)

Extended Unbanned:
Entomb (Maybe I am just not seeing the broken-ness of this one without gaymo cards like goblin welder,and since welder will be legal for another month after the announcement, I doubt this will get unbanned)

Standard Bannings:
(None)

Vintage Restricted list changes:
GIfts ungiven - (This card is at least as good if not better than fact or fiction (In Vintage); no other card so undercosted can win games, almost no matter what. I personally like the tinker version of gifts more than belcher severence, but either way...)

Those are my personal opinions on the banned and restricted lists (Hopefully legacy gets some saucy new stuff)

Nothing will change in vintage. Personally I'd like to see workshop get the axe, but that's because I hate it, hate losing to it, and think its a retarded peice of dung, and not because of some good argument I can come up with.

I wouldn't be surprised if affinity gets nuked in extended in the same way it was in T2. On playtesting for the upcoming season, affinity is powerful to the point that builds have to maindeck tons of artifact hate just to deal with it, much like the way T2 was. Some MTGO players are also complaining.

I would be _extremely_ be surprised (and disappointed at DCI) if jitte gets banned in T2.

I just hate Ravager and the way it warped Standard.

yeah, but I wouldn't be too worried. Extended can deal with those kinds of threats, even during post-rotation. I don't think they will ban anything in the fledgeling formats such as Extended or Legacy.

I think alot of yous are nuts.
1 Nothing will be touched in Standard, Extended, and Block.
2 Maybe A few Cards Unbanned in Legacy.
3 The Dreaded Banning of Yawgmoth's Will in Vintage(But I hope I am wrong on this)

There is no reason to ban anything in extended when the new extended season hasn't even started. To many of yous are jumping the gun and saying ban the deck I don't want to be matched with, or Ban vial cause its OMFG SICK YO!!!1!!!!1!1!ONE!!. Stop with pointlessness and think does WoTC like banning cards without just cause? Didn't they let affinty run rampant cause they where unsure of how to ban cards without splash damage? If they ban cards they want just cause to do so. The only instance I saw a card being banned before its intro into a format was memory jar Just cause they just found out how bra-ro-ken it was in the game at last min. I swear all I see is complaints on certain cards. Use that time to find ways to break those cards in 2 and find ways around them. If your gonna cry about sonething cry for unbannings. At least it feels better.

Nothing, in any format.

Nothing needs to be banned in Block, since it's over. T2 is rotating in under 2 months, and no 9th or KBC cards warp the current format.

Extended has some good contenders in Vial and the usual suspects from Affinity. However, I don't think the DCI will act until after PT LA and the start of the PTQ season. By then, the metagame will be more established, and actual results can be used to determine which cards are problematic. I don't expect Affinity to make it to the December bannings unscathed, and Vial might get the axe then, too, but I don't think they'll get whacked pre-emptively.

Legacy: I don't play this format enough to speculate accurately.

Vintage: Workshop might be a candidate for restriction, but if any action is taken, I think it'll be unrestricting a random card that's been +R for ages.

Nothing will happen, but I hope with all my heart that Disciple gets the Axe from extended.

Cards should not -punish you- for disruping your opponent's strategy. A 1-mana creature should not make your random hoser gain additional cost "pay 10 life".

I wouldn't expect any changes to occur this time around with regards to the Banned and Restricted list. With a new Standard format approaching, making any changes in Standard doesn't make sense. They won't unban anything obviously, but they won't ban anything for certain. Same with Extended, as we'll have a whole new Extended format in under two months. So, there's just no tournament data to look at to make those decisions.

Vintage is anyone's guess as to what could happen. While everyone keeps talking about cards that could be Restricted, the format is still wide open with decks that perform well. So, I doubt they'd step in and actually make changes in a format that seems to be pretty flexible and is not stagnated. I don't even think that they'll Unrestrict anything either. I don't see any likely candidates in the bunch that would really go over well (Mind Twist being Unrestricted would be very poorly received).

As for Legacy... I could actually see some stuff potentially getting changed on that list, though it probably will not happen. Goblin Lackey is actually a pretty scary creature in Legacy, and Goblins is a strong deck that does pretty well. While there are several answers to a Turn 1 Lackey, it really does contribute a lot to making the deck just disgusting. Crucible of Worlds is also an unfun card that contributes a lot to Landstill being very good. But, the format is still pretty open and I've yet to hear too many say anything about it being "stagnate". But, maybe the Legacy event at GenCon will give some information to the DCI to make a decision.

I think any big Legacy announcements will be made in December, if there are any to make. GP Philly is in November, and I think the European Legacy GP is, too. That gives the DCI two big events to pull data from, and enough time to decide what needs to go. Personally, I think Goblin Lackey and Crucible of Worlds are problem cards which bear monitoring, but I think we'll have to wait for the GP results to see what happens.

Quote from Dr. Tom »

I think any big Legacy announcements will be made in December, if there are any to make. GP Philly is in November, and I think the European Legacy GP is, too. That gives the DCI two big events to pull data from, and enough time to decide what needs to go. Personally, I think Goblin Lackey and Crucible of Worlds are problem cards which bear monitoring, but I think we'll have to wait for the GP results to see what happens.

Yeah, GP Lille is the following weekend. And yeah, they would likely wait until after these events before making changes, especially if they decide to push more Legacy in the events in the future. But, I do know that those 2 cards could be really problematic. I'd almost think High Tide as well, but it's not really that prevalent in the format, and most decks back some way to counter it (whether it be a normal counter spell of some kind, or Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast).

In my opinion, and maybe my views are just different then most of yours, but waiting until AFTER the large tournament to ban cards is not how you should do it. You want to ban the cards before the tournament so that brokeness isn't legal for the big tournament. Banning cards afterwards is kind of after the fact and isn't really helpful until the entire next season of that format.

A main problem for wizards with leaving Ravager Affinity around in the extended format is that lots of people have this mental block that makes them not want to play any format where Ravager is legal because of how horrible that Standard format was. Ravager Affinity simply being viable would scare off many people from playing extended, and that would be bad for wizards.